Aquaponics Digest - Thu 01/06/00

Message 1: Re: New varieties for Y2K
 from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta 

Message 2: Fw: Calicum
 from "Sulfercreek" 

Message 3: Plain text messages, was Re: Fw: Calicum
 from S & S Aqua Farm 

Message 4: Re: Plain text messages, was Re: Fw: Calicum> At 07:48 AM 01/06/2000 -0500, you
wrote:
 from "Sulfercreek" 

Message 5: Re: Plain text messages
 from S & S Aqua Farm 

Message 6: Re: New varieties for Y2K
 from S & S Aqua Farm 

Message 7: Re: New varieties for Y2K
 from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta 

Message 8: Re: System Thoughts, Bacteria?
 from Bagelhole1

Message 9: ppm for P,K,Ca,Mg in effluent
 from "KevinLReed" 

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| Message 1 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: New varieties for Y2K
From:Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta 
Date:Thu, 06 Jan 2000 05:06:48 -0500

Hi Joel,
I've tried growing radicchio but it doesn't form a head or color up well
in our climate.I'll check out Summer Flash and Choi Joi Choi.Thanks.

> Have you considered Radicchio, red Heading Chicory (pretty red and white
> color) or some of the green chinese cabbages like China Flash or Choi Joi
> Choi ? Both look good in the market and are sold through the Park Seed Co..

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| Message 2 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Fw: Calicum
From:"Sulfercreek" 
Date:Thu, 6 Jan 2000 07:48:13 -0500

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BF581A.626D7DC0


I hope this works better

 Co-Authors:David A. Bok
Joseph Hammon

 Title:White Gold

 Crop production is the problem of having available in the
 soil all the elements in balance required for plant
 nutrition so the crop as feed or food will have all the
 elements and compounds required for animal and human
 nutrition (Vol. III, Dr. Albrecht Papers).

 We were searching for a more economical crop production in
 our heavy clay soil, along the way we tried compost. green
 manure, and animal manures, but the results were a
 disappointment.With further research, we found to get =
long
 lasting soil tilth we needed to open the path for water and
 oxygen movement in the soil profile.We discovered to =
bring
 the soils life cycle, grow, decompose and supply back into
 its proper order the answer for us is high calcium lime
 WHITE GOLD.

 With high calcium lime, came the pH factor.Would the lime
 take the pH to a high a level to lock up plant food?We
 must forget about lime as a neutralizer and think of it as
 plant food.If the soil is adequately limed or balanced
 with calcium, all other nutrients will become balanced and
 the pH will properly adjust itself provided we stop =
pouring,
 salt fertilizers on our land.A high pH may be brought
 about by sodium potassium of ammonium, where there is
 calcium present of not.

 Research done by Dr. V. A. Tiedjens in the 1920's proved
 that high calcium lime acted as a regulator high calcium
 lime has a pH of 6.8 so is the soil was low it would raise
 the pH and the opposite was true if the soil was high in pH
 it would lower it.Dr. Tiedjens realized there was no
 relationship between adequate saturation and pH of the =
soil.
 He developed a test to determine the amount of calcium in
 soil to produce a maximum yield.He discovered that the
 chemically active colloidal matter in the soils determined
 how much lime stone was needed.

 By using Dr. Tiedjens research findings and charts we found
 that our clay soils needed 85% base saturation of calcium
 per plow acre-foot.Organic matter has the ability to
 absorb large quantities of calcium.

 The more we looked at the soil and calcium connection the
 more benefits we realized such as earthworms.Earthworm
 eggs will stay dormant in the soil until the proper level =
of
 calcium becomes available.Earthworms have been called "
 Nature's Plowmen".Earthworms open the plow sole to let
 oxygen in carbon dioxide out.Earthworms feed on dead or
 decaying organic matter and then deposit castings in the =20

soil.These castings are richer in plant food than the
 soil.They also increase soil porosity, aeration, =
drainage,
 plus mixing the soil.Earthworms burrow several feet deep.
 Tests have shown that earthworm inhabited soil can have a
 25% yield increase.Earthworms do not like unfavorable =
soil
 conditions.They cannot live in strong acid soils or in to
 dry or waterlogged soils.Also there are a lot more little
 micro bugs that will produce plant food in the soil due to
 the increased oxygen in the soil.

 Secondly we found that a magnesiumimbalance will cause =
the
 soil to be tighter and cause water to run off carrying soil
 particles, nitrogen, potassium, phosphorus.Calcium has =
the
 ability to make the soil act like a sponge to absorb water
 and oxygen.This in turn reduces runoff and lowers input
 costs by retaining the nitrogen, potassium, phosphorus.

 With the soil in balance and the reduction or elimination =
of
 chemical inputs, what we plant and grow now has improved
 food or feed value. User friendly.

 We have seen protein in corn silage increase from 8.8% to
 10.19%, alfalfa increase from 22.5% to 24.1%, small grains
 from 12.4% to 13.5%, ground ear corn as high as 9.6% and
 shelled corn as high as 11.5%.With shelled corn averaging
 7% protein across the country, 100 bu/ac corn with 7%
 protein equals $98.100 bu/ac corn with 11.5% protein
 equals $161.This is cutting edge economics.

 Other benefits we have seen:
1.Less horse power and fuel to pull equipment
2.Better soil tilth
3.Reduced weed spray
4.less erosion
5.improved feed quality
6.hay cured and retained leaves better
7.increased seed germination
8.lower input costs

 We are excited about the progress we have made and even =
more
 so about the future.We have learned a lot and have a lot
 more to learn.We could say more about "WHITE GOLD"but
 the best thing is we feel a great confidence in the future
 of our farms ability to provide us with something a lot =
more
 than just sustain-ability.

=20

=20

------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BF581A.626D7DC0









I hope this works better
 

          =
  =20
Co-Authors:  David A.=20
Bok
           =
            &=
nbsp; =20
Joseph Hammon
 
          &nbs=
p; =20
Title:  White Gold
 
          &nbs=
p; =20
Crop production is the problem of having available in=20
the
           =
 =20
soil all the elements in balance required for=20
plant
          &nbs=
p; =20
nutrition so the crop as feed or food will have all=20
the
           =
 =20
elements and compounds required for animal and=20
human
          &nbs=
p; =20
nutrition (Vol. III, Dr. Albrecht Papers).
 
          &nbs=
p; =20
We were searching for a more economical crop production=20
in
           &=
nbsp;=20
our heavy clay soil, along the way we tried compost.=20
green
          &nbs=
p; =20
manure, and animal manures, but the results were=20
a
           &n=
bsp;=20
disappointment.  With further research, we found to get=20
long
           =
; =20
lasting soil tilth we needed to open the path for water=20
and
           =
 =20
oxygen movement in the soil profile.  We discovered to=20
bring
          &nbs=
p; =20
the soils life cycle, grow, decompose and supply back=20
into
           =
; =20
its proper order the answer for us is high calcium=20
lime
           =
; =20
WHITE GOLD.
 
          &nbs=
p; =20
With high calcium lime, came the pH factor.  Would the=20
lime
           =
; =20
take the pH to a high a level to lock up plant food? =20
We
           &=
nbsp;=20
must forget about lime as a neutralizer and think of it=20
as
           &=
nbsp;=20
plant food.  If the soil is adequately limed or=20
balanced
          &=
nbsp; =20
with calcium, all other nutrients will become balanced=20
and
           =
 =20
the pH will properly adjust itself provided we stop=20
pouring,
          &=
nbsp; =20
salt fertilizers on our land.  A high pH may be=20
brought
          &n=
bsp; =20
about by sodium potassium of ammonium, where there=20
is
           &=
nbsp;=20
calcium present of not.
 
          &nbs=
p; =20
Research done by Dr. V. A. Tiedjens in the 1920's=20
proved
          &nb=
sp; =20
that high calcium lime acted as a regulator high=20
calcium
          &n=
bsp; =20
lime has a pH of 6.8 so is the soil was low it would=20
raise
          &nbs=
p; =20
the pH and the opposite was true if the soil was high in=20
pH
           &=
nbsp;=20
it would lower it.  Dr. Tiedjens realized there was=20
no
           &=
nbsp;=20
relationship between adequate saturation and pH of the=20
soil.
          &nbs=
p; =20
He developed a test to determine the amount of calcium=20
in
           &=
nbsp;=20
soil to produce a maximum yield.  He discovered that=20
the
           =
 =20
chemically active colloidal matter in the soils=20
determined
          =
;  =20
how much lime stone was needed.
 
          &nbs=
p; =20
By using Dr. Tiedjens research findings and charts we=20
found
          &nbs=
p; =20
that our clay soils needed 85% base saturation of=20
calcium
          &n=
bsp; =20
per plow acre-foot.  Organic matter has the ability=20
to
           &=
nbsp;=20
absorb large quantities of calcium.
 
          &nbs=
p; =20
The more we looked at the soil and calcium connection=20
the
           =
 =20
more benefits we realized such as earthworms. =20
Earthworm
          =
  =20
eggs will stay dormant in the soil until the proper level=20
of
           &=
nbsp;=20
calcium becomes available.  Earthworms have been called=20
"
           &n=
bsp;=20
Nature's Plowmen".  Earthworms open the plow sole to=20
let
           =
 =20
oxygen in carbon dioxide out.  Earthworms feed on dead=20
or
           &=
nbsp;=20
decaying organic matter and then deposit castings in the  =


          =
 =20
soil.  These castings are richer in plant food than=20
the
           =
 =20
soil.  They also increase soil porosity, aeration,=20
drainage,
          =
  =20
plus mixing the soil.  Earthworms burrow several feet=20
deep.
          &nbs=
p; =20
Tests have shown that earthworm inhabited soil can have=20
a
           &n=
bsp;=20
25% yield increase.  Earthworms do not like unfavorable=20
soil
           =
; =20
conditions.  They cannot live in strong acid soils or in=20
to
           &=
nbsp;=20
dry or waterlogged soils.  Also there are a lot more=20
little
          &nb=
sp; =20
micro bugs that will produce plant food in the soil due=20
to
           &=
nbsp;=20
the increased oxygen in the soil.
 
          &nbs=
p; =20
Secondly we found that a magnesium  imbalance will cause=20
the
           =
 =20
soil to be tighter and cause water to run off carrying=20
soil
           =
; =20
particles, nitrogen, potassium, phosphorus.  Calcium has=20
the
           =
 =20
ability to make the soil act like a sponge to absorb=20
water
          &nbs=
p; =20
and oxygen.  This in turn reduces runoff and lowers=20
input
          &nbs=
p; =20
costs by retaining the nitrogen, potassium, phosphorus.
 
          &nbs=
p; =20
With the soil in balance and the reduction or elimination=20
of
           &=
nbsp;=20
chemical inputs, what we plant and grow now has=20
improved
          &=
nbsp; =20
food or feed value. User friendly.
 
          &nbs=
p; =20
We have seen protein in corn silage increase from 8.8%=20
to
           &=
nbsp;=20
10.19%, alfalfa increase from 22.5% to 24.1%, small=20
grains
          &nb=
sp; =20
from 12.4% to 13.5%, ground ear corn as high as 9.6%=20
and
           =
 =20
shelled corn as high as 11.5%.  With shelled corn=20
averaging
          =
  =20
7% protein across the country, 100 bu/ac corn with=20
7%
           &=
nbsp;=20
protein equals $98.  100 bu/ac corn with 11.5%=20
protein
          &n=
bsp; =20
equals $161.  This is cutting edge economics.
 
          &nbs=
p; =20
Other benefits we have=20
seen:
          &nbs=
p;      =20
1.  Less horse power and fuel to pull=20
equipment
          =
       =20
2.  Better soil=20
tilth
          &nbs=
p;      =20
3.  Reduced weed=20
spray
          &nbs=
p;      =20
4.  less=20
erosion
          &n=
bsp;      =20
5.  improved feed=20
quality
          &n=
bsp;      =20
6.  hay cured and retained leaves=20
better
          &nb=
sp;      =20
7.  increased seed=20
germination
         &nbs=
p;       =20
8.  lower input costs
 
          &nbs=
p; =20
We are excited about the progress we have made and even=20
more
           =
; =20
so about the future.  We have learned a lot and have a=20
lot
           =
 =20
more to learn.  We could say more about "WHITE GOLD" =20
but
           =
 =20
the best thing is we feel a great confidence in the=20
future
          &nb=
sp; =20
of our farms ability to provide us with something a lot=20
more
           =
; =20
than just sustain-ability.
 
 
 
 

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| Message 3 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Plain text messages, was Re: Fw: Calicum
From:S & S Aqua Farm 
Date:Thu, 06 Jan 2000 06:52:55 -0600

At 07:48 AM 01/06/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>I hope this works better
>
>
> Co-Authors:David A. Bok
>Joseph Hammon
>
>


Actually, Dave, the message came through fine the first time.My point in
writing to you was to ask that you change your message format from HTML to
plain text.Now we have two copies of your post to add to the archive, both
the same, with TWO sets of HTML garbage that I'll copy back to you
personally so that you can see what the rest of us are dealing with.

Paula
S&S Aqua Farm, http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/

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| Message 4 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Plain text messages, was Re: Fw: Calicum> At 07:48 AM 01/06/2000 -0500, you wrote:
From:"Sulfercreek" 
Date:Thu, 6 Jan 2000 07:58:46 -0500

Sorry im still learning this thing
HELP MEWhat do i need to different
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "S & S Aqua Farm" 
To: aquaponics
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2000 7:52 AM
Subject: Plain text messages, was Re: Fw: Calicum

> the same, with TWO sets of HTML garbage that I'll copy back to you
> personally so that you can see what the rest of us are dealing with.
> 
> Paula
> S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775417-256-5124
> Web pagehttp://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
> 

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| Message 5 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Plain text messages
From:S & S Aqua Farm 
Date:Thu, 06 Jan 2000 07:06:00 -0600

At 07:58 AM 01/06/2000 -0500, Dave wrote:
>Sorry im still learning this thing
>HELP MEWhat do i need to different
>----- Original Message ----- 
>

Looks as if you have the problem under control. Thanks 

Paula
S&S Aqua Farm, http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/

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| Message 6 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: New varieties for Y2K
From:S & S Aqua Farm 
Date:Thu, 06 Jan 2000 07:55:09 -0600

At 07:46 AM 01/05/2000 -0500, Adriana wrote:

>Johnny's has a new cress called Wrinkled Crinkled Crumpled Cress which
>has a nice peppery flavor and looks sort of like a curley parsley.I
>grew a test pack of seeds last month and my chefs love the samples. 
>It's a good candidate for adding to salad mixes and for selling alone.

This sounds like an interesting item, both as a salad mix addition and for
garnish.How is it supposed to do in warmer temps?

>I'm looking for a very crisp green lettuce variety to mix with frisee
>for one of my French chefs.Paula, I believe you use Black Seeded
>Simpson in your mix.Now I see that there is an "improved" variety
>called Simpson Elite.Can you enlighten us on the virtues/drawbacks of
>either of these or recommend another variety?

I liked the Simpson for it's tenacity in various climates, but it would not
be my first choice for a "very crisp" lettuce.I'd suggest you try Anuenue
if you haven't already.It's a texture close to a buttercrunch, and also
one that did well in cool and warmer temps.Haven't any experience with the
Simpson Elite, but I'd be interested is anyone else has.

>Also on my wish list is a good substitute for Red Giant Mustard.I've
>developed a poison-ivy like reaction to it and would like to get it out
>of my mix.I love the flavor and zip that it adds to my salad. 
>Suggestions, anyone?

Mustard is a great addition for the salad mix.I wonder why this reaction
just "developed".Any major change in your body chemistry that you can
think of?Were you adding it just for the flavor, or was there a color
reason for the Red Giant?

>Finally, I got a request for Water Pepper, something featured recently
>on the Iron Chef.Can anybody recommend a source or provide culture
>information?

You're always coming up with different crops - we'll have to change your
email "handle" to "cropmeister".Care to share any more info about this
when you find it?

Paula
S&S Aqua Farm, http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/

.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 7 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: New varieties for Y2K
From:Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta 
Date:Thu, 06 Jan 2000 13:28:38 -0500

> This sounds like an interesting item, both as a salad mix addition and for
> garnish.How is it supposed to do in warmer temps?
I'll let you know in about two months :>), I know itr was developed by
Shoulder to Shoulder Farm in Philomath, Oregona and has its roots in a
Persian cress.Gail Hall has grown it before, so she may be able to
tell us how it does in summer.I know I tried to grow Upland Cress
during warmer weather without success.Our high temperatures over the
past month have been mostly in the low 80s and it's been growing
happily.

> Mustard is a great addition for the salad mix.I wonder why this reaction
> just "developed".Any major change in your body chemistry that you can
> think of?
There's been no change in body chemistry and it's not without
precedent.If you recall, Anna Edey the author of Solviva had to stop
work in her greenhouse for this same reason.It took a lot of sleuthing
and a lucky break to identify the culprit.Unfortunately my allerigst
has no way to treat it other than by avoidance, which is why I'm looking
for a substitute.

Were you adding it just for the flavor, or was there a color
> reason for the Red Giant?
I was adding it primarily for flavor, I love it's Dijon mustard taste. 
Only in the last month has it contributed much in the way of color.

 You're always coming up with different crops - we'll have to change
your
> email "handle" to "cropmeister".Care to share any more info about this
> when you find it?
Hey, the power of the web is amazing.I did a search and the only place
listing water pepper seed is in Palmetto Florida, about 20 miles north
of me...just about in my back yard.I have a call in to them but
haven't heard back.I'll keep you posted.

Adriana

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| Message 8 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: System Thoughts, Bacteria?
From:Bagelhole1
Date:Thu, 6 Jan 2000 22:05:23 EST

Dear Barry,
 This list has the nicest people I have encountered anywhere, and 
I'm on a lot of lists. Thanks for your wise comments. Alotta good info. 
Finally, today, I found a source for clear 2 liter bottles, so I can start 
adding seedlings to the system. The more plants, the more bacteria, the 
better for the fish ( I only have 7 - 2pounders, catfish). Ima long way from 
creating a genuine quality food source for myself and neighbors. But I don't 
give up easy. You are suggesting that I don't do the interval thing, but just 
let the pump keep pumping and keep the roots wet/immersed? It seems like too 
much, but itsa thought.

In a message dated 1/5/00 8:08:06 PM, barrythomas@crosswinds.net writes:

<<> or addsomething to the water.

Yes. Some nutrient content. Did you see the reply I sent to your initial

(recent) post?

> It seems the plants are getting enough, one

> minuteevery hour to keep the roots damp, (I

> don't want them to be too damp).

Plant roots can be totally submerged from germination until harvest and

be perfectly happy about it - if the solution they're in is sufficiently

aerated. Raft systems show this. Or, roots (and media) may be always

'enclosed' by a film of liquid in which case, most of the gas exchange

between roots and atmosphere happens via the surface of the film. NFT

and 'drip' systems usually maintain a constant flow through the film,

bringing fresh nutrients and carrying away wastes. Flood & Drain systems

maintain the film by simply replacing it (and the surrounding air) at

intervals.

Bear in mind also that bacteria are important in hydro and crucial in

aquaponics.

In addition, with flow rates this low, the plant side of things will be

contributing little to the fish, either by cleaning the water or

aerating it.

Barry

barrythomas@btinternet.com

>>

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| Message 9 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: ppm for P,K,Ca,Mg in effluent
From:"KevinLReed" 
Date:Thu, 6 Jan 2000 17:59:35 +0200

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0031_01BF586F.CADC1BA0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Aloha,
I wonder if anyone has a breakdown on the fish effluent. Is the water =
mostly nitrate now or is there any significant level of phosphorous, =
potassium, calcium or magnesium.Is there any way to adjust these by =
what I feed the fish? I am having a " soil test" done on the local coral =
to see how muchCa it will provide per/ pound. I am trying to make a =
determination on effluent replacement of fertilizers and soil amendments =
in a pounds per acre format to show the local farmers.=20
Any thoughts?

Aloha Nui Loa,
Kevin

------=_NextPart_000_0031_01BF586F.CADC1BA0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable








Aloha,
I wonder if anyone has a breakdown on the =
fish=20
effluent. Is the water mostly nitrate now or is there any significant =
level of=20
phosphorous, potassium, calcium or magnesium.  Is there any way to =
adjust=20
these by what I feed the fish? I am having a " soil test" done on the =
local=20
coral to see how much  Ca it will provide per/ pound. I am trying =
to make a=20
determination on effluent replacement of fertilizers and soil amendments =
in a=20
pounds per acre format to show the local farmers. 
Any thoughts?
 
Aloha Nui Loa,
Kevin

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