Aquaponics Digest - Sat 04/01/00
Message 1: Sick Fish
from "Jay Myers"
Message 2: Re: Lobsters - one more time
from Crystalcreekaqua
Message 3: Re: Crabs & Kelp
from marc@aculink.net
Message 4: Re: Crabs & Kelp
from CAVM
Message 5: Re: Crabs & Kelp
from marc@aculink.net
Message 6: Re: Alaska
from Raul Vergueiro Martins
Message 7: Re: Alaska
from "bennett"
Message 8: Re: Alaska
from CAVM
Message 9: red claw
from "Ron Brooks"
Message 10:
from "Patrick Pierce"
Message 11: Re: Alaska
from "bennett"
Message 12: Re: Crabs & Kelp
from "Sam Levy"
Message 13: Re: red claw
from "Sam Levy"
Message 14: Re: Greenhouse
from marc@aculink.net
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Subject: Sick Fish
From: "Jay Myers"
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 05:24:01 -0600
Anyone have a suggestion as to where I can send samples of morts to help me
figure out what is killing them ?
Jay Myers
Panama City Beach, Fl.
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Subject: Re: Lobsters - one more time
From: Crystalcreekaqua
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 07:13:56 EST
You might want to look at freshwater prawns like Macrobrachium
rosenbergii which is from the South Pacific. Oregon Institute of Technology
has done trials with them (in geo-thermal heated outdoor ponds) and set up a
hatchery. The adults have the same requirements as tilapia but they need
saltwater for hatching out (eliminates the do-it-yourself breeding). They
have a grow-out rate about half that of tilapia, about 3/4 lb. in 9 months.
This is a species that I have been looking at for polyculture.
For this species, in the book, Fundamentals of Aquaculture, it is
recommended that to reduce "social pecking order" problems one should either
reduce or increase the stocking density, grow-out in a planted area (such as
rice farming), or grade to insure similar sizes.
Hope that gives you another idea to go with,
David
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Subject: Re: Crabs & Kelp
From: marc@aculink.net
Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 09:02:25 -0700
The lobster thread makes me wonder about other saltwater
creepy, crawly, swimmy things and salt water plants.
There are drainage areas with high levels of salts (some
with characters hostile to salt water plants and critters,
true) but many simply of brackish characteristics and non
economically profitable with the old paradigms that are
considered lost to these formerly productive areas.
There are many areas that have surrendered to the higher
level of chlorides that occur when increased population
forces the granting of wastewater excess chloride discharge
waivers.
The increasing number of grant funded municipal reverse
osmosis systems is another factor in increasing chloride
levels in streams and rivers especially out here in the semi
arid west.
It actually seems possible to use a bioponics type of
philosophy and any discharge water would almost have to have
a more balanced and healthy character thereby increasing the
local eco healthiness.
Perhaps government funded pretreatment, tax waivers, permit
relaxation and other attractive cooperative things could
happen since it could be easily proven in the public
interest to contribute any remediation to these waters.
The growers could gain status as water treatment operators
in the states eye with corresponding benefits, protection
and permit favor. Environmentalists would form human chains
to protect these sites from any harm in times of anti
capitalist riots. Well, maybe not.
Or just make money since noone wants to buy the property
since conventional husbandry techniques are useless there
and seafood is always popular.
If someone is interested in expounding about this you
certainly would have an attentive audience here as my
saltwater experience is limited to Mollies, fish disease
cures and making ice cream.
Ideas? Comments? Is anyone already doing this?
Marc S. Nameth
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Subject: Re: Crabs & Kelp
From: CAVM
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 13:08:38 EST
There is already a science of agriculture in high salt areas that includes
salt tolerant soybeans, for example. That does not take away from the
usefulness of your idea, however. Sounds like you might be headed in an
interesting direction.
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Subject: Re: Crabs & Kelp
From: marc@aculink.net
Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 11:29:16 -0700
I can do some research but can you or anyone do me a favor
(save me a little time) and direct me to some newsgroups or
web sites that deal with this??
Tnx,
Marc
CAVM wrote:
>
> There is already a science of agriculture in high salt areas that includes
> salt tolerant soybeans, for example. That does not take away from the
> usefulness of your idea, however. Sounds like you might be headed in an
> interesting direction.
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Subject: Re: Alaska
From: Raul Vergueiro Martins
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 15:11:40 +0700
Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta wrote:
> > I believe that fishes do not excrete sufficient feces to run a biodigestor for
> > lthe production of methane.
>
> Raul,
> Perhaps I misunderstood Pete's original post. I thought that Pete was
> talking about large quantities of fishery industry waste being available
> locally. My suggestion was that some of these wastes be run through a
> biodigester, rather than dumped in the bays. This would generate the
> necessary heat for an aquaponic operation in Alaska, while another
> portion of the fish waste could be processed into feed.
>
> Adriana
Hi Adriana:
OK. Now we are talking in the same language.
But my answer does not discard the use of a biodigester to process fish feces
filtered or decanted from water.
Generally, these feces are discarded, and so, we are loosing equivalent quantities
of
fertilizer, wich could be used to enrich our crops.
It is my idea, that a small multi fase biodigester, of very cheap construction,
could be used to process those feces, and the resulting bio-fertilizer, conducted to
the water to enrich it's nutrients.
The biogas a byproduct of the system, should be discarded.
We could get, this way, a complete recirculation of food to the system.
In large size systems, where fish filets are produced, the wastes of this system,
should be dried and sterilized, and after this reprocessed into fish food.
At the moment, we are working in the development of this system, wich seems to be
very good, with practical no losses.
If you have any question, please ask us.
Raul Vergueiro Martins
rvm@sti.com.br
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Subject: Re: Alaska
From: "bennett"
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 19:34:24 -0500
>In large size systems, where fish filets are produced, the wastes of this
system,
>should be dried and sterilized, and after this reprocessed into fish food.
>.
>If you have any question, please ask us.
>
I have a question. :-) How do you sterilize the fish [filet] wastes?
I want to process it for poultry feed.
The feces of my system will be feeding plants in my greenhouse.
I want to use the offal from the slaughtered fish to feed
poultry, the poultry offal possibly to feed the fish and
the greenhouse to help feed both the fish and the poultry!
Now, everyone talk to me about this! I value all input
and information exchanges.
D.Bennett
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Subject: Re: Alaska
From: CAVM
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 19:36:03 EST
In a message dated 4/1/2000 6:28:18 PM Central Standard Time,
bennett@frognet.net writes:
> have a question. :-) How do you sterilize the fish [filet] wastes?
> I want to process it for poultry feed.
> The feces of my system will be feeding plants in my greenhouse.
> I want to use the offal from the slaughtered fish to feed
> poultry, the poultry offal possibly to feed the fish and
> the greenhouse to help feed both the fish and the poultry!
> Now, everyone talk to me about this! I value all input
> and information exchanges.
> D.Bennett
>
How much fish processing waste do you expect to have? And how much poultry
processing waste?
C. Van Milligen
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Subject: red claw
From: "Ron Brooks"
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 20:56:20 -0500
>From another list , seems to be a good idea .
has anyone tried it , might cut down on cannibalism
More than likely would need to use bigger pvc
Ron
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-nfc@actwin.com [mailto:owner-nfc@actwin.com]On Behalf Of
Christian Reynolds
Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 8:43 PM
To: nfc@actwin.com
Subject: NFC: Re: crayfish tank
I used to raise crayfish in a 20 gallon long tank, my method of keeping them
from fighting was the following:
I housed over 20 crayfish of varying sizes by doing the following.
I used a fine gravel or sand substrate with no plants (crayfish cut them off
at the substrate level)
I then took a piece of 1" PVC pipe and cut it into 8" sections. I cut
approx. 5-10 pieces MORE than there were crayfish in the tank.
I then silicone them together side by side, and then stacked if necessary,
all facing the same direction.
Place in tank, and then watch as the crayfish each take a home. They will
not fight amongst each other and it is easy to view them if you place all
the tubes facing the front of the tank.
-Christian Reynolds
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| Message 10 |
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From: "Patrick Pierce"
Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 21:21:30 EST
unsubscribe for now
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Subject: Re: Alaska
From: "bennett"
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 22:11:57 -0500
>How much fish processing waste do you expect to have? And how much poultry
>processing waste?
>
I guess both answers depend on how well the whole system works together.;-)
The goal is to butcher 35-50 broilers each week. Almost everything else
will build from that number. e.i. The amount of "produce" required to
provide 1/3 of the broilers feed will be a large determining factor on the
size of the greenhouse. The number of tilapia will be determinite on how
many it takes to feed the greenhouse produce. etc. I'm actually in the
process of trying to determine all those things now, since we plan to have
the greenhouse finished before bad weather hits this fall. We already have
the broiler business started.
D.B
D.B.
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Subject: Re: Crabs & Kelp
From: "Sam Levy"
Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 20:14:02 PST
>From: marc@aculink.net
>
>The lobster thread makes me wonder about other saltwater
>creepy, crawly, swimmy things and salt water plants.
>
>There are drainage areas with high levels of salts (some
>with characters hostile to salt water plants and critters,
>true) but many simply of brackish characteristics and non
>economically profitable with the old paradigms that are
>considered lost to these formerly productive areas.
>
>There are many areas that have surrendered to the higher
>level of chlorides that occur when increased population
>forces the granting of wastewater excess chloride discharge
>waivers.
>
>The increasing number of grant funded municipal reverse
>osmosis systems is another factor in increasing chloride
>levels in streams and rivers especially out here in the semi
>arid west.
>
>It actually seems possible to use a bioponics type of
>philosophy and any discharge water would almost have to have
>a more balanced and healthy character thereby increasing the
>local eco healthiness.
>
>
>Marc S. Nameth
marc,
the option of using saline waters for aquaponics is one that interestes me
personally. there are no shortage of animals that can be cultured in
various salinity waters--although chloride is not the only significant ion
here (otherwise you could use plain table salt to make a salt water
aquarium). tilapia, hybrid striped bass, red drum, mollies, guppies,
shrimps, trout (some strains) are among species that tolerate various
salinities--again depending on the ion balance.
the problem seems to arrive with the plant component--while there's been
lots of research--much of it down out of arizona- (use your search engine w/
the term "halophyte" & you'll get some of this work--also aquacultural
engineering--links either through aquacultural engineering society or
through elsevier scientific publications--in the june 1999 issue carried
some of j brown's work on this subject).
most of teh possible crops i've run across leave teh water more aline after
the cultivation either through selective transport of the water (halophytes)
or through simple evaporation (seaweeds). selection of a plant component
that will yeild a saleable product is also not a trivial problem. if you
want--drop me a note and i'll send you some sites to explore.
regarding reverse osmosis operations--this can be a great source of high
salinity water at a a low price (it's just waste to them). hoever, it is
important to be able te extract a gurantee to be supplied only with the
water & not the detergents, sterilizing agents, or other treatment compounds
that are somtimes used to "clean the system".
sam
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Subject: Re: red claw
From: "Sam Levy"
Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 20:20:10 PST
>From: "Ron Brooks"
>
>has anyone tried it , might cut down on cannibalism
>
>More than likely would need to use bigger pvc
>
>Ron
>
>-----Original Message-----
>
>I used a fine gravel or sand substrate with no plants (crayfish cut them
>off
>at the substrate level)
>
>I then took a piece of 1" PVC pipe and cut it into 8" sections. I cut
>approx. 5-10 pieces MORE than there were crayfish in the tank.
>
>I then silicone them together side by side, and then stacked if necessary,
>all facing the same direction.
>
ron--
this type of system will work with many crustaceans (i've seen it done with
several species). a variation i've also seen is the use of polyethylene egg
flats--30 holes/flat--strung together so that the creatures could crawl into
the spaces.
the limitation on these types of solutions is simply the ability to keep
them clean
sam
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Subject: Re: Greenhouse
From: marc@aculink.net
Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 22:35:35 -0700
Several folks have requested any details and pictures we had
to offer on our home-brew 30' by 95' PVC hoop greenhouse.
Unfortunately before we took pictures after we erected it a
high wind situation cause it's loss. For those who want some
pictorial details they may be viewed on:
http://www.aculink.net/~marc/greenhouse/greenhouse.htm
All tanks and other valuable and weather sensitive things
were removed and relocated immediately after the loss so it
is a rather non controversial scene for those who do not
enjoy damage scenes. Most of the purloins are also removed
in these pictures.
All in all it would have survived the normal 50 to 70 mph
peak winds we have in this area.
For those who may be scared off by this failure there are
simple and inexpensive techniques that are readily available
that would withstand even those types of winds had we
employed them. They will be in the repaired version.
The center support scheme was incredibly steady during the
highest peaked winds we experienced. (Marcy and I were
inside the structure attempting to save it and protecting
the stuff inside.) I was expecting movement and now
understand why some billboards use this scheme.
Marc S. Nameth
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