Aquaponics Digest - Fri 04/07/00




Message   1: Re: Greenhouse
             from "beacnhrt" 

Message   2: Night Crawlers
             from Joy Pye-MacSwain 

Message   3: Re: biodigesters
             from S & S Aqua Farm 

Message   4: Re: biodigesters
             from "beacnhrt" 

Message   5: Re: Night Crawlers
             from Bertmcl

Message   6: Re: Polycarbonate roof and gutters
             from Ronald Polka 

Message   7: was Bolting Lettuce...Head + Leaf.....==> HEAF lettuce? :)
             from dreadlox@cwjamaica.com (michael kent barnett)

Message   8: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Thu 04/06/00
             from DAVEINBHAM

Message   9: Re: ants
             from Ryon Lucke 

Message  10: Re: Time out - was Re: still no tact,still not impressed
             from Ryon Lucke 

Message  11: NFT channels
             from "Peter D. Rau" 

Message  12: Re: ants
             from John Hite 

Message  13: Re: NFT channels
             from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta 

Message  14: Re: Time out - was Re: still no tact,still not impressed
             from "TGTX" 

Message  15: Re: Polycarbonate roof and gutters
             from "TGTX" 

Message  16: Re: NFT channels
             from MUDDTOO

Message  17: Re: Night Crawlers
             from "Steve" 

Message  18: Re: Night Crawlers
             from marc@aculink.net

Message  19: Re: NFT channels
             from Sunpeer

Message  20: Re: NFT channels
             from Sunpeer

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| Message 1                                                           |
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Subject: Re: Greenhouse
From:    "beacnhrt" 
Date:    Fri, 7 Apr 2000 00:28:13 -0500

Dear Adam,
   I ment to answer your question about buying pipe, but, I don't think I
did. In order for you to buy pipe, you would need to look in the yellow
pages for pipe dealers. If you were going to buy large quantities for
manufacturing you could get it from a wholesale supplier.
melvin landers
-----Original Message-----
From: Adam G. Smith 
To: aquaponics@townsqr.com 
Date: Tuesday, April 04, 2000 9:24 PM
Subject: Re: Greenhouse

>Where does one get the tools to do this pile bending and what type of pipe
>and quality of pipe does one buy?
>thanks,
>adam
>
>----------
>>From: tvoivozhd 
>>To: aquaponics@townsqr.com
>>Subject: Re: Greenhouse
>>Date: Wed, Apr 5, 2000, 7:50 AM
>>
>
>> If the hoops are steel pipe, you bend them with a roller---looks like
three
>> large pulleys in a frame, one or mor of which are powered, friction feeds
>> the pipe through and progressively moving the center wheel toward the
other
>> two (and running the pipe through several times) gradually bends the pipe
in
>> the desired arc.
>>
>> If the relationship between distance between legs and length of PVC pipe
is
>> reasonable, two people can bend it to the desired radius simply by
walking
>> toward each other and placing the ends in preset pipes or holes in the
>> perimeter frame.  Shipping frames is easier if straight pipes are used,
so
>> preformed arcs held by a cross-member are rare.  Two-inch PVC in a small
>> arc, or larger pipe in customary greenhouse widths would require heating
the
>> pipe with hot sand inside, cooling it and knocking or vibrating the sand
>> out.
>>
>> Mark Hooper wrote:
>>
>>> While on the subject of Greenhouses, how are you all bending the steel
>>> pipes into a hoop shape?  Also, what size/guage pipe are you using?  Any
>>> other good ideas and/or secrets to share?
>>>
>>> Mark
>>
>>
>

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| Message 2                                                           |
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Subject: Night Crawlers
From:    Joy Pye-MacSwain 
Date:    Fri, 07 Apr 2000 09:07:29 -0300

Morning All.....

I have recently informed that we are going to undertake a new project at
our facility and so ..some querries, cause I don't know...sigh.....
Anyway, has anyone grown night crawlers in a S&S style aquaponics
setup???  If so problems encountered????  Where can I purchase a
starting stock??  Thanks and i appreaciate any help that folk can send
my way.

Joy Pye-Macswain,
Future Aqua Farms

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| Message 3                                                           |
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Subject: Re: biodigesters
From:    S & S Aqua Farm 
Date:    Fri, 07 Apr 2000 07:08:51 -0500

At 11:00 PM 04/06/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>Hi Paula,
>   I would like to know if it would be acceptable to forward an email to
the list. The one in question is from Sr. Raul Martin in Brazil. He is
developing  a biodigester to process chicken manure from a large egg
operation. the resulting fertilizer is used to grow lettuce. He sent me alot
of information about it and I think it may be of interest to some of the
group members.
>melvin landers

Melvin - if the post is not too lengthy, please feel free to post to the
group.   If it's a very big file, I'd suggest you request those who are
interested to email you privately so that you can forward it just to them.
That's the process I usually use when I have slightly off-topic information
that I think would be of interest to some, but not all members.

Before you forward anything, though, please change your settings to plain
text and eliminate the HTML coding.  Every message you send with HTML is at
least twice as long as it should be.

Paula
S&S Aqua Farm,  http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/

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| Message 4                                                           |
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Subject: Re: biodigesters
From:    "beacnhrt" 
Date:    Fri, 7 Apr 2000 08:17:45 -0500

Thanks Paula,
   The message is in pretty great detail, so I had better send it to
ondividuals who are interested. addresses can be sent to me at
beacnhrt@positech.net . I have my email set for plain text. I hope no HTML
is comming accross.
melvin landers
-----Original Message-----
From: S & S Aqua Farm 
To: aquaponics@townsqr.com 
Date: Friday, April 07, 2000 6:53 AM
Subject: Re: biodigesters

>At 11:00 PM 04/06/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>>Hi Paula,
>>   I would like to know if it would be acceptable to forward an email to
>the list. The one in question is from Sr. Raul Martin in Brazil. He is
>developing  a biodigester to process chicken manure from a large egg
>operation. the resulting fertilizer is used to grow lettuce. He sent me
alot
>of information about it and I think it may be of interest to some of the
>group members.
>>melvin landers
>
>Melvin - if the post is not too lengthy, please feel free to post to the
>group.   If it's a very big file, I'd suggest you request those who are
>interested to email you privately so that you can forward it just to them.
>That's the process I usually use when I have slightly off-topic information
>that I think would be of interest to some, but not all members.
>
>Before you forward anything, though, please change your settings to plain
>text and eliminate the HTML coding.  Every message you send with HTML is at
>least twice as long as it should be.
>
>Paula
>S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775  417-256-5124
>Web page  http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
>
>

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| Message 5                                                           |
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Subject: Re: Night Crawlers
From:    Bertmcl
Date:    Fri, 7 Apr 2000 10:55:27 EDT

Joy,

Woehrle's Wholesale Bait
1-800-227-2248 (don't know if you may call from Canada)
woehrlesbait.com

There 2000 catalog shows Canadian Might Crawlers 
    500 $35.00,1000 $55.00 plus a lot more of rates.

Let me know how it works out. Tell Carla hello.

Bert McLaughlin
New Kent,VA

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| Message 6                                                           |
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Subject: Re: Polycarbonate roof and gutters
From:    Ronald Polka 
Date:    Fri, 07 Apr 2000 10:10:41 -0600

At 07:37 PM 4/6/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>
>I want to build a 30 x approx. 80 foot greenhouse with a 12 foot eave height
>and gutters for rainwater collection.....hemicircular or hemi-ellipsoidal
>metal hoops between the uprights.  I would like some design-engineering help
>from both of you guys to help me make this happen at least on paper and/or
>in my wildest dreams.   I'm thinking 6 foot centers on the uprights and on
>the hoops.  I am thinking double wall polycarbonate on the roof.  Need to
>give some engineering consideration to the gutters, since I would like to be
>able to walk in the gutters like walking the upper plate of a 2 story house
>as I did as a young buck when I used to build houses....see what I mean?
>
>Can either or both of you help me?
>
>Ted
>Totally Helpless and Without a Clue in Texas.
>
Ted
        If you are considering a polycarbonate roof on a 30 foot span it may be
helpful to consider the arch height versus span width in order to calculate
your required glazing length. Due to the fact that the longest standard
length for polycarbonate is 16 feet you may need to decrease the greenhouse
span or ridge height to accommodate the length of the glazing. While it is
possible to install more than one length on the roof it will increase costs
and labor. While on the polycarbonate bandwagon do you need it on the roof
in sunny Texas, will your crop require that much light? I really like
polycarbonate for sidewalls here in NM but use double polyethylene on the
roof for cost savings and ease on installation. The polycarbonate really
works well for installation on sidewalls, especially around the door, vent,
and fan openings.
        If you went to one of the commercial greenhouse manufacturers and
purchased the standard 7 inch wide galvanized gutters you would have a good
place to walk on. Additionally you could purchase the factory made brackets
that attach the gutters to the upright structural members. This makes
installation a snap. If you buy the industry standard support, usually 4
inch round or square galvanized you will find that they can be installed on
12 foot centers. When installed in this manner the arches can then be
installed on 4, 5, or 6 foot centers as required and attached to the
gutters. The standard galvanized gutters are designed to withstand the
loading that will be placed on them with this type of construction.
        The problem that I can see with using galvanized gutters is the leaching
of zinc into the rainwater. If you absolutely need the water and it has to
be zinc free than a different  gutter material may be necessary. I hear
people talk about it all the time but have never seen any numbers on the
accumulation of zinc leachate. Has anyone ever seen if this is a verifiable
problem? Such as how many milligrams/liter does end up in the rainwater
after draining off of the gutter, and is this a problem for most plants?
        Regarding zinc I have seen a range of values for acceptable
concentrations. The Scotts Company water lab states that zinc should be
less than 0.4 mg/l. The Texas A&M "Irrigation Water Quality Standards"
state zinc levels should be less than 2.0 mg/l for long term use and 10.0
mg/l for short term use. I don't know who is right on this issue. 
Ron Polka
Southwest Technology Development Institute
New Mexico State University
Box 30001, Dept 3SOL
Las Cruces, NM  88003
rpolka@nmsu.edu

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| Message 7                                                           |
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Subject: was Bolting Lettuce...Head + Leaf.....==> HEAF lettuce? :)
From:    dreadlox@cwjamaica.com (michael kent barnett)
Date:    Fri, 07 Apr 2000 01:47:41 +0100

William G Brown wrote:
> 
> Sounds like you want head lettuce.
  
YESssssssssss!!! lol

>>Your best bet would be to try the summer crisp lettuces that are semi-head lettuce, part
leaf, part head and very tolerant to hot weather.  

William...could U give us some specific names of these "halfies" or
mixed head and leaf or is it heaf lettuce??? 

See, right now Im in a cinch...i have access to highland far
away...increased cost to experiment on aquaponics..or lowland, high
sun...good water... but HOT ...nearby...so the fact that I can grow
good  heads (demand is for head lettuce..) is VITAL.. and my choice of
location will be crucial..
If I know the types of "heaf" lettuce that do well, I would ask for
persons to tell me what their experiences were...my market is no
different than Ures I guess...my potential clients need a hard tight
crisp head to pass thru their shredding machines. How was their
experience with these "heaf" types?? Anyone??

I also would like to know....are there any large producers purchasers on
this list? Im seeking markets for indigenous Jamaican, and growing
contracts for herbs, culinary, medicinal, anyone wanna help..? Are there
any "empty" contingencies that I could fill from here for any of U?? In
other words...I have have the sun and the climate...U have the
market..we sit talk...and ahem....get out in em greenhouses...lol.

Anyone??

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| Message 8                                                           |
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Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Thu 04/06/00
From:    DAVEINBHAM
Date:    Fri, 7 Apr 2000 13:00:06 EDT

In a message dated 04/06/2000 11:04:48 PM Central Standard Time, 
aquaponics-digest-request@townsqr.com writes:

<< Don't know about regular ants but our fire ants hate dry
 molasses, which is also a pretty good soil amendment.
  >>
******************************************************************************
*
What is " dry molasses" ?

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| Message 9                                                           |
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Subject: Re: ants
From:    Ryon Lucke 
Date:    Fri, 7 Apr 2000 11:55:28 -0700 (PDT)

Er..."Dry molasses"??  What would that be?

_______________________________________________________
Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite
Visit http://freelane.excite.com/freeisp

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| Message 10                                                          |
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Subject: Re: Time out - was Re: still no tact,still not impressed
From:    Ryon Lucke 
Date:    Fri, 7 Apr 2000 12:04:26 -0700 (PDT)

>  
>  I want to build a 30 x approx. 80 foot greenhouse with a 12 foot eave
height
>  and gutters for rainwater collection.....hemicircular or hemi-ellipsoidal
>  metal hoops between the uprights.  I would like some design-engineering
help
>  from both of you guys to help me make this happen at least on paper
and/or
>  in my wildest dreams.   I'm thinking 6 foot centers on the uprights and
on
>  the hoops.  I am thinking double wall polycarbonate on the roof.  Need to
>  give some engineering consideration to the gutters, since I would like to
be
>  able to walk in the gutters 

I'm not an engineer, but I think you've laid out some pretty tough specs for
yourself.  I certainly sympathize with your desire to control roof run-off,
and be able to walk in the gutters.

Maybe your walls should be stud walls.  Your hoops can be bolted to the
sides of the studs every 6 feet with u-bolts. Big gutters can be bent up by
a sheet metal worker fairly easily, nailed to the studs on top of the plate,
and the roof glazing lapped over into them...?
     Good luck.

                      Ryon Lucke

_______________________________________________________
Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite
Visit http://freelane.excite.com/freeisp

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| Message 11                                                          |
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Subject: NFT channels
From:    "Peter D. Rau" 
Date:    Fri, 07 Apr 2000 14:31:17 -0500

Based on all the information I've read here and on some other hydroponic,
aquaculture, and aquaponic sites, I think it would be a good idea for me to try
a project at the hobby level first before moving into something bigger.  I have
three aquariums (75, 90, and 110 gallon) that I want to use the aquaculture part
of the setup.  I would like to use NFT as the hydroponic part.

Does anyone have a good source for NFT channels or instructions for making them
using supplies available from Home Depot or some place like that?  I'd
appreicate any and all information.

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| Message 12                                                          |
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Subject: Re: ants
From:    John Hite 
Date:    Fri, 07 Apr 2000 14:24:13 -0500

We get it at the feed store in 50# sacks, about 2/3 dried molasses and
1/3 filler. We mainly use it to add carbon to the garden areas as our
soil is sandy and has only had chemical fertilizer on it b4 we bought
the place.

Ryon Lucke wrote:
> 
> Er..."Dry molasses"??  What would that be?
> 
> _______________________________________________________
> Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite
> Visit http://freelane.excite.com/freeisp

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| Message 13                                                          |
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Subject: Re: NFT channels
From:    Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta 
Date:    Fri, 07 Apr 2000 18:30:01 -0400

> Does anyone have a good source for NFT channels or instructions for making them
> using supplies available from Home Depot or some place like that?  I'd
> appreicate any and all information.

Where are you located Peter?

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| Message 14                                                          |
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Subject: Re: Time out - was Re: still no tact,still not impressed
From:    "TGTX" 
Date:    Fri, 7 Apr 2000 20:51:34 -0500

> > Can either or both of you help me?
> >
> > Ted
> > Totally Helpless and Without a Clue in Texas.
>
> Tvoivozhd---at one time I was a tract developer and builder with a 28-day
> building cycle, but greenhouses were not my province---and my experiences
with
> polycarbonate are confined to designing recycling centers for it.  So I
can't
> give you any advice I would regard as authoritative.  However, some of the
> commercial greenhouse manufacturers do publish data that you should find
> helpful---for example:
> http://www.agroponic.com/layout_plans.htm
>
http://www.agroponic.com/Specifications/GutterSpecifications/gutter_specific
ation.htm
>

Thanks, Tiveznotzgenoid, I appreciate it.

Ted
As I said before, I am Totally Helpless and Without a Clue in Texas

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| Message 15                                                          |
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Subject: Re: Polycarbonate roof and gutters
From:    "TGTX" 
Date:    Fri, 7 Apr 2000 21:13:05 -0500

Without a Clue in Texas.
> >
> Ted
> If you are considering a polycarbonate roof on a 30 foot span it may be
> helpful to consider the arch height versus span width in order to
calculate
> your required glazing length. Due to the fact that the longest standard
> length for polycarbonate is 16 feet you may need to decrease the
greenhouse
> span or ridge height to accommodate the length of the glazing. While it is
> possible to install more than one length on the roof it will increase
costs
> and labor. While on the polycarbonate bandwagon do you need it on the roof
> in sunny Texas, will your crop require that much light? I really like
> polycarbonate for sidewalls here in NM but use double polyethylene on the
> roof for cost savings and ease on installation. The polycarbonate really
> works well for installation on sidewalls, especially around the door,
vent,
> and fan openings.

Well Ron, I want this new aquaponic architectural monument to be novel...
hansome... and durable for many years...I have done the poly film thing for
a number of years, so I thought I would go with the double wall
polycarbonate route for the beauty, durability , and novelty of the whole
thing.

> If you went to one of the commercial greenhouse manufacturers and
> purchased the standard 7 inch wide galvanized gutters you would have a
good
> place to walk on......

Yeah, I have done this and bought the gutters and installed them before, and
walked along them as the wild winds whipped me and shade cloth and the poly
film.... up into the stratosphere for several grand adventures....I was just
looking for some alternatives from our recent mechanical engineering quorum
poster chittlins that seemed to be snorting and butting heads in recent
posts....ya' gotta love these guys for holding forth!

> The problem that I can see with using galvanized gutters is the leaching
> of zinc into the rainwater. If you absolutely need the water and it has to
> be zinc free than a different  gutter material may be necessary. I hear
> people talk about it all the time but have never seen any numbers on the
> accumulation of zinc leachate. Has anyone ever seen if this is a
verifiable
> problem? Such as how many milligrams/liter does end up in the rainwater
> after draining off of the gutter, and is this a problem for most plants?
> Regarding zinc I have seen a range of values for acceptable
> concentrations. The Scotts Company water lab states that zinc should be
> less than 0.4 mg/l. The Texas A&M "Irrigation Water Quality Standards"
> state zinc levels should be less than 2.0 mg/l for long term use and 10.0
> mg/l for short term use. I don't know who is right on this issue.

Since zinc is not only NOT BAD, BUT ACTUALLY GOOD for the critters and
plants and humans at fairly high levels in run off water (it ends up being
far far less than that in the final dilution mix I can assure you, since the
gutters really don't leach that much in THIS (My) climate/geography....there
is still plenty of carbonate dust in the air and in the rain around here to
mitigate things, I have seen.....), so, therefore....I am not EVEN concerned
about  zinc overdose from galvanized gutters collecting rainwater off of my
greenhouse.... I did this before and the gutters were galvanized and the
tanks collected rainwater and the fish and plants did fine...

I just thought I would try to drum up some some fresh American ingenuity
input from these designing MINDS that have been snarling, snapping, and
growling at each other.......on the bent pipe approach to the gutter/ hoop/
upright design thing...

Thanks, Ron and Have a Great Weekend.

Think Rain

Ted

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| Message 16                                                          |
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Subject: Re: NFT channels
From:    MUDDTOO
Date:    Fri, 7 Apr 2000 23:00:27 EDT

Hello Peter,
I've used plastic rain gutters with lettuce for good results, putting one 
inverted on top of the other, creating a 10 foot tube.  Once screwed together 
they are pretty rigid.  I used a hole saw to drill holes into the top section 
on 12 inch centers starting the first one 6 inches in from the end.  Use the 
end caps as you would for rain gutters. Search around the web and you'll find 
plenty of commerical sites to learn from.

Good luck.
Joel

In a message dated 4/7/00 12:25:55 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
prau@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu writes:

> Does anyone have a good source for NFT channels or instructions for making 
> them
>  using supplies available from Home Depot or some place like that?  I'd
>  appreicate any and all information.

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| Message 17                                                          |
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Subject: Re: Night Crawlers
From:    "Steve" 
Date:    Fri, 7 Apr 2000 22:05:53 -0500

Hi Bert,

Sorry to "step on" your email, but I deleted Joy's. Joy, I don't remember
the prices , but you might also check Happy D Ranch. Just type in Happy D
Ranch on your browser and it will show the address. That is where I buy my
composting worms.  They are very helpful. Just a thought and gives you 2
avenues.

Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: 
To: 
Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 9:55 AM
Subject: Re: Night Crawlers

> Joy,
>
> Woehrle's Wholesale Bait
> 1-800-227-2248 (don't know if you may call from Canada)
> woehrlesbait.com
>
> There 2000 catalog shows Canadian Might Crawlers
>     500 $35.00,1000 $55.00 plus a lot more of rates.
>
> Let me know how it works out. Tell Carla hello.
>
> Bert McLaughlin
> New Kent,VA
>

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| Message 18                                                          |
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Subject: Re: Night Crawlers
From:    marc@aculink.net
Date:    Fri, 07 Apr 2000 22:18:14 -0600

Joy Pye-MacSwain wrote:
> 
> Morning All.....
> 
> I have recently informed that we are going to undertake a new project at
> our facility and so ..some querries, cause I don't know...sigh.....
> Anyway, has anyone grown night crawlers in a S&S style aquaponics
> setup???  If so problems encountered????  Where can I purchase a
> starting stock??  Thanks and i appreaciate any help that folk can send
> my way.
> 
> Joy Pye-Macswain,
> Future Aqua Farms

http://www.smartgardening.com/wormsuppliers.htm
http://www.oldgrowth.org/compost/forum_vermi/
http://www.dragnet.com.au/~lindah/worms.html
http://www.oldgrowth.org/compost/forum_vermi/
http://gnv.fdt.net/~windle/
http://www.unclejim.com/index.shtml
http://www.redclaw.com/
http://www.drylands.demon.co.uk/wigglers.htm
http://www.earthworm.net
http://www.ctvalley.com/nightcrawler.htm
http://www.wormfarm.com/
http://www.vermiculture.u8.com/2Menu.html
http://www.yelmworms.com/
http://www.afn.org/~kazarie/
http://www.nj.com/yucky/worm/
http://www.happydranch.com/
http://www.empnet.com/worms/resource.htm
http://www.mirinz.org.nz/penv/Publications/Composting.htm
http://www.wormwoman.com/commercial_vermiculture.html
http://www.vermint.com.au/growers.html.htm
http://sorrel.humboldt.edu/~ccat/sub/vermi.htm
http://overton.tamu.edu/smith/oldsmith/vermiculture.html
http://www.attra.org/attra-pub/vermicom.html
http://uccecalaveras.org/compost3.htm
http://hopper.usfca.edu/env-safety/Compost/worm.html
http://www.smartgardening.com/wormcomposting.htm

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| Message 19                                                          |
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Subject: Re: NFT channels
From:    Sunpeer
Date:    Sat, 8 Apr 2000 00:51:43 EDT

In a message dated 4/7/00 3:25:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
prau@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu writes:

<< 
 Does anyone have a good source for NFT channels or instructions for making 
them
 using supplies available from Home Depot >>

"Raingo" brand gutters work fine and have the added benifit of ridges in the 
center of the trough that help to guide the water flow and allow aditional 
aeration under the root ball. The downside is putting up with algae growth on 
uncovered gutters.  I use the plastic lenghts of "netting" that are designed 
to shed leaves off the top along the bottom of the return gutters.  This 
helps with aeration and because its black I get reduced algea growth. Rubber 
Maid Brute barrels make long lasting nutrient or sump tanks.

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| Message 20                                                          |
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Subject: Re: NFT channels
From:    Sunpeer
Date:    Sat, 8 Apr 2000 01:00:11 EDT

In a message dated 4/7/00 11:09:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, MUDDTOO 
writes:

<< I used a hole saw to drill holes into the top section 
 on 12 inch centers starting the first one 6 inches in from the end >>
Do you find that spacing satisfactory with the lettuce varieties you grow ? I 
space at 6" with "Salina" a Dutch open head and even tighter sometimes with 
the herbs.


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