Aquaponics Digest - Wed 01/13/99




Message   1: Tilapia source

             from "W.Warren" 

Message   2: Re: Alfalfa sprouts and salmonella

             from "Ted Ground" 

Message   3: Re: Alfalfa sprouts and salmonella

             from Mike Miller 

Message   4: software

             from "Ronald W. Brooks" 

Message   5: Re: software

             from doelle 

Message   6: Re: software

             from "Jim Sealy Jr." 

Message   7: rainwater microbiology

             from NCHWANG

Message   8: Re: rainwater microbiology

             from "Ted Ground" 

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| Message 1                                                           |

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Subject: Tilapia source

From:    "W.Warren" 

Date:    Wed, 13 Jan 1999 05:33:59 -0500

Hi all,

Some time ago one of you gave me the name and email of someone in Florida

who's policy it is to give tilapia fingerlings to educators.  I have since

lost it...  Could someone email me

this lead or a similar one again?

Much appreciated!

Will

check out the Biobarge:

http://www.shore.net/~wbw

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| Message 2                                                           |

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Subject: Re: Alfalfa sprouts and salmonella

From:    "Ted Ground" 

Date:    Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:40:00 -0600

Salmonella typhii and other species of Salmonella, (many serological

strains of Salmonella) are indeed often associated with avian feces, but

not always.  

Consider that Salmonella has been detected fairly often in some dried

spices, especially black pepper, because in the countries where they are

produced, they are sun dried in the open air and can be exposed to feces of

wild birds, or the domestic poultry running loose in the village- as you

can imagine.  

Given the large volume of black pepper, as well as alfalfa sprouts now,

that are consumed in this country, one can easily see that the incidence or

degree of such contamination is very, very low indeed.  Nevertheless, the

FDA has now taken upon itself the task of governmental Savior by exerting a

regulatory effort in the realm of sprout production and packaging for human

consumption.  The fault lies in a very few sprout producers that did not

have a clean source of seed, and furthermore, do not exert a reasonable or

sufficient effort in daily rinsing as the sprouts germinate- just like that

one salad farm we discussed in earlier posts. Anyway, the result is

something we desparately need more of - more federal government

micromanagement and involvement in everyday life. 

I would not be concerned about feeding the sprouts to the fish.  

In my food testing lab, we tested thousands of samples of packaged meats

from many different customers- now, these were cooked to one degree or

another.  Nevertheless on occasion we did detect Salmonella, almost always

on a poultry product, rather than beef, sausage, etc., and it occasionally

was confirmed as Salmonella typhii, or one of the serological types of

concern.  So, it definitely shows up on poultry meat- especially RAW

poultry meat. I would go so far as to say that the majority of unwashed raw

poultry meat in the grocery store would be found to have detectable levels

of at least some species of Salmonella or Clostridium or some kind of

unwanted critters. 

Given all the poultry consumed in the USA, the incidence of food poisoning

due to Salmonella is extremely low.  Nevertheless, it is a reasonable

precaution to wash all poultry, or anything for that matter, before you

cook it- certainly before you eat it.  Washing it does not sterilize it-

but it can knock down the total number of all kinds of bacteria that may be

found on the surface of the meat. We eat and drink bacterial pathogens

everyday- the important thing to consider is the dose. 

More information on the microbiological quality of sprout seed- and the

standard methods used to produce a clean sprout product - can be had by

contacting ISS (International Seed Supply).  They are a major supplier of

seeds for sprouting, and they are a very knowledgable and very helpful

group of folks there.  They are on the web, by the way.  Also, there is a

book out called uh, the sprouting book, I think, by uh, Ann Wiggins?

Wigdon? something like that.  Might check into that.

This may be the place to mention rainwater microbiology- for those of you

who are considering rainfall capture systems, either for your aquaponics

systems or for your drinking water supply.  Bird poop can carry Salmonella,

so "UP ON THE ROOF" as the song goes, you can sit right down in some

Salmonella.  Granted, it would probably take a large deposit of bird guano

to make you sick from roof-captured rainwater, due to the enormous dilution

factor, and due to the fact that the bird droppings would be dessicated and

irradiated by UV from the sun for a while before being washed into the

rainwater tank, but just as a precaution I would put a filter and ozone

unit in - at least for the drinking water supply.  Heck, I once found a

dead bat in the roof gutter, so you get the idea.  Our (recent) ancestors

would never have given it a second thought.  They were just glad to get the

rainwater to take a bath every Saturday night- whether they needed one or

not!

Ted

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| Message 3                                                           |

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Subject: Re: Alfalfa sprouts and salmonella

From:    Mike Miller 

Date:    Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:25:36 -0600

Of course the contamination was from organic sources just ask the Wall

Street Journal and Dennsi Avery form the Hudson Institute.  Reagan really

started something with his concept of Double Speak.  Why am I not surprised

that this came from MSNBC?  mike

At 16:47 12-01-99 -0600, you wrote:

>

>Today MSNBC reported a link tracing salmonella food poisoning to

>alfalfa sprouts.  The bacteria apparently is dormant in the seed

>and multiplies rapidly in the 3-5 days after germination.  Those

>of you who were considering using sprouts for feed should check

>this out on the MSNBC web site.  I wonder if this might be a

>problem with other sprouts.  The article speculated that the

>original contamination of the seeds occurred in the field from

>organic sources.

>

>Adriana

>

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| Message 4                                                           |

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Subject: software

From:    "Ronald W. Brooks" 

Date:    Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:19:38 -0500

Do any of you out there use any type of software to help with day to day

tracking of your aquaponics system ?

can you share the name and how well it works for you

Thanks

Ron

The One Who Walks Two Paths

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| Message 5                                                           |

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Subject: Re: software

From:    doelle 

Date:    Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:02:44 +1100

Dear Ron,

I am using Eudora Pro very happily for my discussions with everybody

including aquaponics.

Horst Doelle

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| Message 6                                                           |

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Subject: Re: software

From:    "Jim Sealy Jr." 

Date:    Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:12:05 -0600

I use quick books for all my bookkeeping and and MS Works database for

stock records.

Jim

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| Message 7                                                           |

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Subject: rainwater microbiology

From:    NCHWANG

Date:    Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:15:48 EST

Interesting to read the write up on " rainwater microbiology " and " rainfall

capture systems" by Ted.  I live in Thailand, and that is still the daily life

of the peoples in the village.  They have big clay or cement pots and saved up

water for domestic use.  Matter of fact, most would only drink the rain water

came from the roof.  They usually just use a simple cloth bag filter to filter

out the debrits.  Also, they frequently would only use the rain water when

making the offer to the God.  Anyway, I would think twice now about the bat

when I drink the water next time.

Regards from Thailand,

Norman Chwang

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| Message 8                                                           |

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Subject: Re: rainwater microbiology

From:    "Ted Ground" 

Date:    Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:21:24 -0600

Norman,

Faced with the choice of drinking highly contaminated surface water (ie.,

river or stream water) or groundwater for people in the villages in

Thailand that you referred to, it is easy to understand the relative safety

and high quality of rainwater.  I would not hesitate to drink even

unfiltered rainwater if that were my choice over grossly contaminated

surface or ground water.  Well, maybe I would hesitate.  But a simple sand,

cloth fiber, or diatomaceous earth filter etc. could be used to knock out a

lot of the debris that much of the bacterial biomass would be attached to. 

Consider also the human immune system that is accustomed to the results of

drinking only slightly contaminated rainwater- acclimated and made

resilient over decades and centuries to certain biological agents in the

environment.  It's all risky business, no matter which way you go.  By the

way, NASA Tech Briefs- (their technology transfer magazine)- describes some

very remarkable iodine-based water treatment units- very simple, very

effective, low energy, etc...I think they use them in villages in Mexico

with great success- another great spin off from the US space program.

Best Regards,

Ted.



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