Aquaponics Digest - Fri 01/22/99
Message 1: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Wed 01/20/99
from doelle
Message 2: Chicken Poop
from
Message 3: Re: Chicken Poop
from "Wendy Nagurny"
Message 4: unsubscribe
from "Ted Ground"
Message 5: Pennyfish
from Adriana Gutierrez
Message 6: Re: Pennyfish
from "Jim Sealy Jr"
Message 7: hybred systems
from "bell"
Message 8: Re: Chicken Poop
from Dave Miller
Message 9: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Thu 01/21/99
from Gail Hall
Message 10: Back-up Power Systems
from "Jim Sealy Jr"
Message 11: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Wed 01/20/99
from Gordon Watkins
Message 12: unsubscribe
from "Greg Carter"
Message 13: What Happened?
from Dave Miller
Message 14: Re: Water Softening
from jilli and lars
Message 15: Re: Chicken Poop
from John Shannonhouse
Message 16: Re: unsubscribe
from epillow@hiplains.net (Pillow Eddie)
Message 17: Re: Back-up Power Systems
from "Paul Sarnstrom"
Message 18: Re: Back-up Power Systems
from Adriana Gutierrez
Message 19: Re: Back-up Power Systems
from "Wendy Nagurny"
Message 20: Re: Back-up Power Systems
from "Jim Sealy Jr."
Message 21: Re: Water Softening
from Gordon Watkins
Message 22: Re: Tomato Varieties
from Gordon Watkins
Message 23: Re: Tomato Varieties
from Gordon Watkins
Message 24: Re: Chicken Poop
from doelle
Message 25: Re: Chicken Poop
from doelle
Message 26: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Wed 01/20/99
from doelle
Message 27: Re: Germ Theory II
from doelle
Message 28: Re: Back-up Power Systems
from "Wendy Nagurny"
Message 29: RE: Aquaponics Digest - Wed 01/20/99
from Martha Sundquist
Message 30: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Wed 01/20/99
from "Jim Sealy Jr."
Message 31: Re: Chicken Poop
from Marc
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 1 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Wed 01/20/99
From: doelle
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 18:48:40 +1100
Ted, Please would you be so kind and realise that we are not all living in
the USA and thus this discussion is international. We know of FDA and Health
groups of USA being strict and are aware of it.
Thus we are discussing all issues on an international scene, where the
standards and laws may not be as strict. Whether the strictness is overdone
or not, is another issue, which I will not touch.
However, as we have seen in this discussion people are talking about
organics and we also have had contributions of the use of manure in ponds.
PLEASE LET ME KNOW WHETHER WE ARE DISCUSSING AQUAPONICS IN THE USA AND ONLY
IN THE USA OR WORLDWIDE.
If the former is the case, then I may as well unsubscribe, as I am not
living in the USA.
I certainly appreciate Gail's concern and fully support her in every way.
If one is of another opinion does not mean one is irritated or upset. Ted,
there is word called concern, and that is what we are.
I hope you do not mind my reaction. Is it reactionary, irritated , nervous
or upset. Neither as I am a realist, I think.
Best regards
Horst
Horst W.Doelle, D.Sc., D.Sc. [h.c.]
Chairman, IOBB
Director, MIRCEN-Biotechnology
FAX: +617-38783230
Email: doelle@ozemail.com.au
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 2 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Chicken Poop
From:
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 05:55:43 -0500
After ten months of lurking and enjoying this most informative list, it =
is time to jump in with a question.
I have a brochure I acquired from Auburn University about Tilapia =
raising in Guatemala.
They were quite specific in praising the idea of chicken coops directly =
above the ponds so the excreta would fall through into the water.
I believe the idea was to create a more friendly environment for the =
algae growth, and hence food for the Tilapia.
Is this in fact, not a good idea, what with the pathogens going into the =
water straight from the chickens?
I was planning on doing this on my place in Belize.
Thanks for any and all input.
Terry Warburton
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 3 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Chicken Poop
From: "Wendy Nagurny"
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 07:41:52 -0500
This is exactly the kind of thing Horst is talking about. In many other
countries, it is encouraged to throw raw manures directly into the fish
ponds and tanks. Literature published in other countries, often finds its
way into American hands also. I have seen a number of learned people
promoting the use of raw manure on this list and others. We have new people
s*ubbing all the time who may have found some of this literature in their
information searches into aquaculture. I too think it is prudent to remind
people the hazards of raw manure use even though it may have been a common
practice in the past. If you don't want to talk about manure in aquaculture
when it comes up, just don't write on the topic and the thread will be short
lived.
Wendy
After ten months of lurking and enjoying this most informative list, it is
time to jump in with a question.
I have a brochure I acquired from Auburn University about Tilapia raising in
Guatemala.
They were quite specific in praising the idea of chicken coops directly
above the ponds so the excreta would fall through into the water.
I believe the idea was to create a more friendly environment for the algae
growth, and hence food for the Tilapia.
Is this in fact, not a good idea, what with the pathogens going into the
water straight from the chickens?
I was planning on doing this on my place in Belize.
Thanks for any and all input.
Terry Warburton
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 4 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: unsubscribe
From: "Ted Ground"
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 08:12:10 -0600
unsubscribe
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 5 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Pennyfish
From: Adriana Gutierrez
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 09:35:08 -0500
Oops, passions have gotten high on the list. That means it's
time for a new subject.
A while back one of you indicated that you had bought some
pennyfish from Mike Sipes selling under the Cherrysnapper brand
name. We got an inital progress report but haven't heard any
news since. Jim Sealy, was that you? Could you give us an
update on actual growth vs. expected growth based on Mike's
numbers?
Adriana
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 6 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Pennyfish
From: "Jim Sealy Jr"
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 08:40:06 -0600
No, I started to try them last crop, but put it off until next go
around. Still chasing numbers. I haven't found many folks other than
Mike singing their praises, but might still try them. I'm stick to my
hybrid Bream for now.
Jim
----------
> From: Adriana Gutierrez
> To: aquaponics@townsqr.com
> Subject: Pennyfish
> Date: Friday, January 22, 1999 8:35 AM
>
> Oops, passions have gotten high on the list. That means it's
> time for a new subject.
>
> A while back one of you indicated that you had bought some
> pennyfish from Mike Sipes selling under the Cherrysnapper brand
> name. We got an inital progress report but haven't heard any
> news since. Jim Sealy, was that you? Could you give us an
> update on actual growth vs. expected growth based on Mike's
> numbers?
>
> Adriana
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 7 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: hybred systems
From: "bell"
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 09:57:16 -0500
I have to admit I still have not got a system operational but it
is a top goal for myself this year
I intend to get something operational along the lines of S&Ss system
I have a raft hydroponics system that works well for crops like
lettuce and what I am wondering is . is there enough nutrients left in
the grow bed discharge water to possibly run the rafts before returning
to the fish tank
also as I am working and living in the great cold white north I
sure would like some advice as to colder range tolerant tilapia an it
is expensive to maintain 80 degree water temps in the winter
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 8 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Chicken Poop
From: Dave Miller
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:11:57 -0500
Terry,
Just be aware that whatever you feed the chickens (including
antibiotics) will feed the fish both directly and indirectly.
Chickens tend to carry salmonella.
Pathogens can easily enter the water to a much higher degree.
Therefore you may be feeding the fish a questionable food source.
May be feeding, not absolute but with increasing risk of pathogens going
into the water supply. May get passed onto plants grown using water
source. It is a numbers game, hence rinsing, composting poop that may
carry pathogens or avoiding alltogether.
Why take the risk?
Why not compost the manure for a year or sterilize it?
We have enough problems in the Gulf Coast (the dead zone) where
agricultural waste including pesticides, sprayed directly or eaten and
pooped, steroids, bovine growth hormone, and more all fed and pooped and
slowly drained into the water supply.
And we wonder why growth of some sea life has dwindled?
Why risk adding to this demise...
Dave
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 9 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Thu 01/21/99
From: Gail Hall
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 07:20:59 -0800
Ted Ground wrote to Gail
>Gail.
>
>You certainly seem irritated and upset. Am I right?
>Maybe I should assume you have not been following the thread, so I will try
>to bring you up to speed as I understand it. I am dancing in this
>aquaponic revolution as fast as I can. We have gone over the issues of raw
>manure, food safety, and culture
>techniques related to raw manure many,many,many times in the last year.
>No one I know uses raw ruminant, avian, or mammalian feces to grow row
>crops in the field or aquaponic crops in the greenhouse . No organic
>program I
>know of - I know of more than a few, in several US states, allows the use
>of such raw material as fertilizer.
Wow! What a reply! Thanks for the many pages.
First, I wasn't irritated or upset, but simply felt that some gentle
courtesy would be more appropriate than what I read to be sarcasm. Thanks
for the definition.
Second, I got a strong message from your reply that I should try to find
my membership card to the list.
And thirdly, once I lay my hands on my membership card and verify it's
being current, I should always read the archive before responding to a
posting because it might be that I am not "up to speed" on the subject as
all the real members are.
I am making a new year's resolution right here and now, with all those
participating in this list as my witness, to develop a much better sense
of humor.
Gail
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 10 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Back-up Power Systems
From: "Jim Sealy Jr"
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:06:01 -0600
Well folks, I'm sitting here in MS delta tornado alley, listening to
thunder and wind roar in the background with all emergency power
systems up and running with my fingers crossed that everything will
stay put. Reports on the scanner of a tornado on the ground about 30
miles away and more coming. This brought to mind our discussions of a
while back about back-up power systems in use by the list members.
How many of you have back-up systems now, what type, and if not, why?
I'm considering adding some verticle rotor type windmills for free
electricity and possible supplementary emergency power. I already use
battery back-up on critical systems, with LP and deisel generators,
and cellphone and radio for communications.
Jim
Safe and prepared in MS
PS: I'm also using a throw-away cheapie computer for this with the
main system disconnected from the phone and power grid in case you
were wondering. It's still humming downstairs, just on battery
power..
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 11 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Wed 01/20/99
From: Gordon Watkins
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:02:51 -0600
Write on, Ted.
Gordon
Ted Ground wrote:
>
> I think we should keep this forum informative, civil, and at the same time
> fully human by embracing disagreement and misunderstanding with both logic
> and humor.
------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 13 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: What Happened?
From: Dave Miller
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 13:01:22 -0500
Did Ted really unsubscribe or is it a Muse?
I know things can get hot like when a cattle rancher goes on prime tv to
denounce his family profession BUT they're dropping like flies!
JIM SEALY WROTE:
How many of you have back-up systems now, what type, and if not, why?
I'm considering adding some verticle rotor type windmills for free
electricity and possible supplementary emergency power. I already use
battery back-up on critical systems, with LP and deisel generators,
and cellphone and radio for communications.
clip
Now I also want reccomendations for a small generator or free wind
source for at least a well pump, some lights and a sump pump. I have
gas heat, three tenants, two birds and a gorgeous acre of land. Within
30-40 days I will have near 1000 seedlings under 12 fluorescent tubes,
some ready to transplant, etc. January 2000 is winter and less than a
year away.
Ted, come back, it was just like hanging up the phone in a harsh moment.
Dave
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 14 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Water Softening
From: jilli and lars
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:34:30 -0800
Does anybody have any suggestions for softening water using hydroponic
plants?
Does anybody have any suggestions for reducing high phosphate levels -
what plants are real phosphate hogs?
thanks
lars fields
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 15 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Chicken Poop
From: John Shannonhouse
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 13:51:38 -0600
Hello,
According to "Fundamentals of Aquaculture," fish are fed by manure
directly (the fish eats the feces) and indirectly (the fish eats plankton
in the fertilized pond). Poultry is fairly low in energy for the fish to
feed on directly, but has unusually high nitrogen and phosphorus content
compared to other animal wastes. There are a few things to keep in mind:
(1) manure greatly increases bacterial growth and oxidizable compounds in
the water. It can lead to problems with low dissolved oxygen, especially if
too much manure is used. (2) Manure will significantly increase the number
of pathogens in the water. This is mostly dangerous to the aquaculturalist,
as he is exposing himself regularly to highly contaminated water and fish.
Watch out for scales and bones scratching your skin! It can lead to
so-called "fish handlers disease," especially with poultry waste. If the
fish from a manured pond are not adequately purged and/or are undercooked,
there is a higher risk of illness to anyone eating the fish than if the
fish came from an unmanured pond.
John Shannonhouse
Department of Genetics
University of Wisconsin-Madison
jlshanno@students.wisc.edu
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 17 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Back-up Power Systems
From: "Paul Sarnstrom"
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 14:05:34 -0700
Hi Jim, I'm curious about your reference to verticle rotor type
windmills. Do you have any information on sources for them. Since this may
not be directly related to aquaponics you can reply to me personally if you
wish. To everyone in general I have been lurking for about a year and I
greatly appreciate all the information that everyone is willing to share. My
file of information that I have printed from this list is over an inch thick
and still growing. Thank You All, Paul Sarnstrom hoh@rmi.net
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 18 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Back-up Power Systems
From: Adriana Gutierrez
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 16:26:05 -0500
Good luck Jim, we'll keep our fingers crossed and keep your
generators on stand-by. If any of you newbies are interested I
saved some great posts from earlier in the year addressing the
need for back-up power. If you're interested I can re-post it.
Let me know.
Adriana
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 19 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Back-up Power Systems
From: "Wendy Nagurny"
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 16:53:49 -0500
Vertical Axis Wind Turbines, VAWT's are a drag machine and therefore not
very efficient. Horizontal axis wind turbines will give you the most power
out of the wind and the buck. Wind turbines are not an "install it and
leave it type" system. You are operating a home powerplant with all its
headaches and dangers. But with all their drawbacks, wind turbines are the
only system that can realistically provide the average home (or greenhouse)
enough "free" power to operate comfortably. I just ask that you please
study these systems (operations and troubleshooting) before purchasing one.
Please do it right, don't cut corners. Check out the track record carefully
of any company or rep. Mistakes can be fatal. For more information on wind
turbines check out http://www.econet.org/awea/ .
Wendy
>I'm considering adding some verticle rotor type windmills for free
>electricity and possible supplementary emergency power
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 20 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Back-up Power Systems
From: "Jim Sealy Jr."
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 16:08:55 -0600
Hi Paul,
I hope anyone who's ever lost a tank of fish or greenhouse full of
vegetables due to grid failure will agree back-up power systems are on
topic. We lost power at the farm for a month after the Feb. '96 ice
storm here and numerous times due to tornados over the years and
anywhere you can pick up some free electricity is good in as energy
hungry a business as aquaponics.
What I have in mind is installing a number of ducted Savonius rotor
windmills. The ducted Savonius can be extremely efficient in the right
arrangement. I have full machine shop facilities so I'm planning on
building these in house. These are well suited to gusty winds, which
is what we have more of here. I want to use them for charging
batteries on my existing backup power system. With the wind generators
I could set things up so the default would be battery power and only
when the battery power is low switch to the grid. Same set-up as I
have now only with reversed priority. Now I have critical systems set
to switch to battery power whenever the grid goes down. Once the
batteries reach a set low point the LP generator starts up and charges
the batteries and runs the power system. I prefer this system since
the generator puts out more power than is normally needed and the
batteries can store some of this excess capacity, thus saving fuel.
Jim
Sure wish we had that archive running... ( Hint Hint :)
Paul Sarnstrom wrote:
>
> Hi Jim, I'm curious about your reference to verticle rotor type
> windmills. Do you have any information on sources for them. Since this may
> not be directly related to aquaponics you can reply to me personally if you
> wish. To everyone in general I have been lurking for about a year and I
> greatly appreciate all the information that everyone is willing to share. My
> file of information that I have printed from this list is over an inch thick
> and still growing. Thank You All, Paul Sarnstrom hoh@rmi.net
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 21 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Water Softening
From: Gordon Watkins
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 17:07:29 -0600
In field applications Austrian Winter Peas are especially useful at mining
phosphorus from the subsoil. Don't know how they would work in an
aquaponic system.
Gordon
jilli and lars wrote:
> Does anybody have any suggestions for reducing high phosphate levels -
> what plants are real phosphate hogs?
>
> thanks
>
> lars fields
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 22 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Tomato Varieties
From: Gordon Watkins
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 17:10:57 -0600
Jim,
Can you describe in a little more detail how you grow tomatoes in your
system? I was under the impression that yours was a raft type system. If so, how
does sharp gravel come into play?
Thanks, Gordon
"James Rakocy, Ph.D." wrote:
> Gordon, space in outdoor systems is not at such a premium as it is in
> greenhouses. When you train to one stem outdoors, the winds really whips the
> plant and puts a lot of pressure on the base. In sharp gravel it can girdle
> the stem and eventually kill the plant. We used collars. Also light
> intensities are higher outside (better for determinants with their heavy
> foliage) and high humidity is not such a critical factor as in greenhouses.
> Trained plants allow better ventilation in greenhouses. In any event we
> obtained the same production per unit area with either indeterminants
> trained or dertermants not trained (bush). The labor involved in training a
> plant is substantial, so we elect not to do this and avoid the fruit
> cracking problem as a bonus. I'm sure that training plants to one two stems
> is the best method for a greenhouse. Jim R.
>
> >Jim, I take it from this and your previous posting that you've found that
> >determinate varieties are more suitable for your aquaponic system than
> >indeterminates. In the literature I've seen, indeterminates are invariably
> >recommended for greenhouse production. Can you explain why your experiences
> >contradict this? Perhaps because you're growing outdoors and not in a
> >greenhouse? Determinates are certainly much easier to deal with in confined
> >spaces as well, I'm sure, as in a rafted system like yours.
> > Gordon
> >
> >"James Rakocy, Ph.D." wrote:
> >
> >> >Thanks for the info Jim. What varieties are you using now?
> >> > Gordon
> >>
> >> We are growing three tomato plants of each of the following varieties:
> >> Bonita, Olympic, Duke, Empire, Joker, Liberty, Celebrity, Colonial,
> >> SunMaster, Flora, Pilgrim and Merced. All are determinant varieties of big
> >> red tomatoes. One plant of each variety is planted in each of three
> >> recirculating systems. Jim R.
> >
> >
> >
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 23 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Tomato Varieties
From: Gordon Watkins
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 17:11:13 -0600
Jim,
Can you describe in a little more detail how you grow tomatoes in your
system? I was under the impression that yours was a raft type system. If so, how
does sharp gravel come into play?
Thanks, Gordon
"James Rakocy, Ph.D." wrote:
> Gordon, space in outdoor systems is not at such a premium as it is in
> greenhouses. When you train to one stem outdoors, the winds really whips the
> plant and puts a lot of pressure on the base. In sharp gravel it can girdle
> the stem and eventually kill the plant. We used collars. Also light
> intensities are higher outside (better for determinants with their heavy
> foliage) and high humidity is not such a critical factor as in greenhouses.
> Trained plants allow better ventilation in greenhouses. In any event we
> obtained the same production per unit area with either indeterminants
> trained or dertermants not trained (bush). The labor involved in training a
> plant is substantial, so we elect not to do this and avoid the fruit
> cracking problem as a bonus. I'm sure that training plants to one two stems
> is the best method for a greenhouse. Jim R.
>
> >
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 24 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Chicken Poop
From: doelle
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 11:21:59 +1100
Dear Terry,
No, this is not a good idea. Firstly you definitely recycle pathogens as
I mentioned on various occasions in this discussion group, but also you
are wasting a lot of money, making biogas.
Chicken is particular dangerous because of the Salmonella. The problem is
not only that you may finish up with salmonella in your tilapia, but also
in the pond of course, the water of which seaps into underground water,
which may be used as drinkling water again or something.
This practice has been and still is going on here in SEAsia, but we are
succeeding in changing and educatring people, that making biogas for free
energy and using the effluent for algae and fish feeding is a much safer
and more profitable system. Biogas digesters are inexpensive when you are
using polyethylene material. To give an example, a family-size 6 m3
digester would cost less than US$ 100 and you are safe.
I only can plea to you NOT to listen to those people who do not know
their microbiology and the increasing danger of infectious diseases.
If you like further information, please let me know. Since some people in
our discussion group appear to object to this type of discussion, you can
also write to me privately.
Best regards
Horst Doelle <
------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 25 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Chicken Poop
From: doelle
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 11:27:09 +1100
Thanks Wendy. The problem is that in the past, when we did not have
antibiotics and did not have chickenfarms where we often feed with hormones
etc. and did not have the population and thus the amount of manure, it was
acceptable. Unfortunately most literature goes mostly back to the 40s and
50s. This topic and new research was never accepted or very difficult to get
into a scientific or other journal because it is 'old fashion' and not
'modern science' . I know, as I was an associated editor of a well known
biotechnology journal and resigned because of that attitude.
I fully agree with you
Horst Doelle
------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 26 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Wed 01/20/99
From: doelle
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 11:37:57 +1100
Exactly Gordon. I support you. Their is a saying that we all agree that
sometimes we disagree. So what ?
As long as we all agree that nobody is perfect in this world, the discussion
will continue as Ted said.
Horst
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 27 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Germ Theory II
From: doelle
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 12:16:48 +1100
Adriana,
Many thanks for the webpage below. I was able to enter the webpage, but did
not have the time as yet to search for this article. I will do in due course.
Horst
At 07:46 AM 21/01/99 -0500, you wrote:
>Horst,
>
>I did a quick Alta Vista search and found his primary web site
>at:
>http://www.amherst.edu/~biology/faculty/ewald.html
>
>If you can't get ahold of his work on-line send your adress and
>I'll snail mail it to you. Maybe I can have my husband scan it
>in and I'll forward it to you.
>
>Adriana
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 28 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Back-up Power Systems
From: "Wendy Nagurny"
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 22:15:21 -0500
Jim,
Savonius rotors are not real good for generating electricity. Here is an
excerpt from an article written by Eric Eggleston. Mr. Eggleston is very
knowledgeable about wind turbines.
The Savonius: A Useful, Drag-Type VAWT
Yet drag-based VAWTs can be useful. They can be made many different ways
with buckets, paddles, sails, and oil drums. The Savonius rotor is S-shaped
(when viewed from above) and apparently originated in Finland. A good
Savonius turbine might exceed a TSR of 1, but not by much. All of these
designs turn relatively slowly, but yield a high torque. They can be useful
for grinding grain, pumping water, and many other tasks; but are not good
for generating electricity. RPMs above 1000 are generally best for producing
electricity; however, drag-based VAWTs usually turn below 100 RPM. One might
use a gearbox, but then efficiency suffers and the machine may not start at
all easily.
Should you have already built a low-RPM VAWT and wish to calculate its power
output, you might try getting your machine to lift something heavy (safely).
One horsepower equals 550 ft-pounds/sec. If it lifts 100 pounds 5.5 feet in
one second, it is one horsepower. Another way to measure output would be to
sample the torque and RPM:
Horsepower = torque x rpm / 63000
Torque in. (inch x pounds) (1 hp = 746 watts)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Recently I have seen quite a bit of interest in the Savonius. I have seen
many home designs on survival type websites. This is probably because the
Savonius is the easiest of useful wind turbines to build. When you say
"ducted" Savonius, I assume you mean that the turbine has some type of
baffle to channel the wind into the rotor. On a wind energy list I was on,
there was a long discussion about constructing these types of baffles. The
opinion from the gurus was that baffles can increase wind velocity when the
wind is blowing in the right direction, but greatly reduces the velocity in
all other cases. Baffles are useful when you are fortunate enough to have
wind which blows in a constant direction which may be the case in a deep
valley. Otherwise forget them. Since you have your own shop, check out the
web page I posted earlier. It has some very good articles on building your
own horizontal wind props written by Hugh Piggot who has been building wind
turbines by hand in Scotland for a long time. I think it was very generous
for him to share his design notes with us.
Wendy
>
>What I have in mind is installing a number of ducted Savonius rotor
>windmills. The ducted Savonius can be extremely efficient in the right
>arrangement. I have full machine shop facilities so I'm planning on
>building these in house. These are well suited to gusty winds, which
>is what we have more of here. I want to use them for charging
>batteries on my existing backup power system. With the wind generators
>I could set things up so the default would be battery power and only
>when the battery power is low switch to the grid. Same set-up as I
>have now only with reversed priority. Now I have critical systems set
>to switch to battery power whenever the grid goes down. Once the
>batteries reach a set low point the LP generator starts up and charges
>the batteries and runs the power system. I prefer this system since
>the generator puts out more power than is normally needed and the
>batteries can store some of this excess capacity, thus saving fuel.
>
>Jim
>Sure wish we had that archive running... ( Hint Hint :)
>
>
>
>Paul Sarnstrom wrote:
>>
>> Hi Jim, I'm curious about your reference to verticle rotor type
>> windmills. Do you have any information on sources for them. Since this
may
>> not be directly related to aquaponics you can reply to me personally if
you
>> wish. To everyone in general I have been lurking for about a year and I
>> greatly appreciate all the information that everyone is willing to share.
My
>> file of information that I have printed from this list is over an inch
thick
>> and still growing. Thank You All, Paul Sarnstrom hoh@rmi.net
>
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 29 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: RE: Aquaponics Digest - Wed 01/20/99
From: Martha Sundquist
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 22:39:31 -0600
In response to Ted's speech...Bravo, Bravo!! Well said dear sir. Martha S.
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 30 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Wed 01/20/99
From: "Jim Sealy Jr."
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 22:24:06 -0600
And such a shame that it was one of his last.
Martha Sundquist wrote:
>
> In response to Ted's speech...Bravo, Bravo!! Well said dear sir. Martha S.
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 31 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Chicken Poop
From: Marc
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 10:22:54 -0700
This might be of interest:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/amex/influenza/drjeffrey11.html
Marc S. Nameth
|
