Aquaponics Digest - Sun 01/24/99
Message 1: Re: Organics Gaining Ground Approval
from Adriana Gutierrez
Message 2: Re: Ted
from "Lloyd R. Prentice"
Message 3: Re: Ted
from Marc
Message 4: vaccine
from William Evans
Message 5: test
from William Evans
Message 6: Thinking of Unsubscribing
from Michael Strates
Message 7: Model rocketry---Re: Thinking of Unsubscribing
from William Evans
Message 8: Re: Chicken Poop
from doelle
Message 9: Re: Chicken Poop
from doelle
Message 10: Re: Animal waste
from doelle
Message 11: Re: Model rocketry---Re: Thinking of Unsubscribing
from Michael Strates
Message 12: Glowing cash crop
from "KevinLReed"
Message 13: Re: Ted
from doelle
Message 14: Re: Organics Gaining Ground Approval
from doelle
Message 15: Animal waste
from Colin Johnston
Message 16: Chicken Poop
from Colin Johnston
Message 17: Re: Ted
from Michael Strates
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| Message 1 |
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Subject: Re: Organics Gaining Ground Approval
From: Adriana Gutierrez
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 03:19:18 -0500
Dave,
Did you by any chance to see whether sewage sludge is allowed
under the proposed regulations?
Adriana
Dave Miller wrote:
>
> Has any one read the newer (revised) proposals for organic standards due
> out this year?
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| Message 2 |
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Subject: Re: Ted
From: "Lloyd R. Prentice"
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 10:02:33 -0500
Though I'll miss Ted's knowledge and insight, I second the motion.
Best wishes,
Lloyd R. Prentice
Adriana Gutierrez wrote:
>
> Horst,
>
> We do appreciate your insight. Please don't refrain from jumping
> in without being asked. For those who find a topic weird or
> unhappy just hit the trash button and move on...
>
> Adriana
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Subject: Re: Ted
From: Marc
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 23:23:49 -0700
Hi Horst,
I appreciate your input(s) and tenacity. I think you are a
very good voice for the values you champion which sometimes
contain a warning.
There is an old American folk song called "Home on the
Range". Part of the lyrics are:
"...never is heard, a discouraging word..."
I guess some people interpret a "warning" as a
"discouraging". This portion of the song speaks to the pain
some people feel when they face a concept put in scientific
rather than politically correct format.
I wonder what they feel when they see a "speed bump ahead"
traffic warning sign.
I am sure the majority who your input absolutely know your
intent is to be helpful and contribute to a quality world
rather than be discouraging.
Marc S. Nameth
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Subject: vaccine
From: William Evans
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 10:49:09 -0800
> And I thought the 1918 flu epedemic was caused primarily by Bad
> vaccine????Most folks who survived the epedemic refused it!.
>
> Marc wrote:
> >
> > This might be of interest:
> >
> > http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/amex/influenza/drjeffrey11.html
> >
> > Marc S. Nameth
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Subject: test
From: William Evans
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 11:00:41 -0800
fish are good.....test message....
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Subject: Thinking of Unsubscribing
From: Michael Strates
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:41:17 +1100 (EST)
With the recent load of junk that's been coming in this mail packet, I'm
seriously going to think about unsubscribing from the list.
The list is about fish, nutrients, and their associated macro-organisims
(worms in grow beds), and microorganisims who reside in our grow beds.
C'mon.. let's get back on topic, please! I really don't like having to
type "skip"
--
NOTE TO ALL: My website has moved to a bigger, better server, see below:
e-mail: mstrates@croftj.net www: http://www.croftj.net/~mstrates
Get PGP Public Key by Finger. Encrypted Mail is Accepted (no SHA hashes)
Fingerprint: 3D68CFB3C61B3A05 7FC68308A3BC0B86. See my pages for info
about the world famous Rocket Trike and how to make one of your own!
Linux!! The OS of my Choice [Melbourne Linux Group] => www.mlug.org.au
.......................................................................
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned
skyward, for there you have been, and there you long to return."
- Leonardo da Vinci.
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| Message 7 |
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Subject: Model rocketry---Re: Thinking of Unsubscribing
From: William Evans
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 13:30:47 -0800
Were at your beckon call... come on lets fill his brain up!Lets be
pertinent..
Michael Strates wrote:
>
> With the recent load of junk that's been coming in this mail packet, I'm
> seriously going to think about unsubscribing
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| Message 8 |
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Subject: Re: Chicken Poop
From: doelle
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 09:08:37 +1100
Dick,
Please have a look at the web page http://www.cipav.org.co/lrrd/lrrdhome.html
This is the Livestock Research for Rural Development webpage, an electronic
journal dealing with bio-integrated systems . R.T.Preston is the main main
you should contact or Lylian Rodriguez. They are working in Vietnam at present.
I am sure Frands Dolberg may also be able to help you, as he worked with the
group. His address <
Good luck. If you have any further question please let me know, as I also
could put you in contact with the Philippines, where they now introduce a
lot of these digesters.
At least they are not as sensitive as Ted Ground in this subject.
Best regards
Horst Doelle
>
Horst W.Doelle, D.Sc., D.Sc. [h.c.]
Chairman, IOBB
Director, MIRCEN-Biotechnology
FAX: +617-38783230
Email: doelle@ozemail.com.au
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| Message 9 |
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Subject: Re: Chicken Poop
From: doelle
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 09:19:49 +1100
Hallo Sue,
Personally I do not have such a system around, as we in Australia build
these things in concrete, but you will find them a lot in Vietnam,
Bangladesh and the Philippines. Please consult the electronic journal:
Livestock Research for Rural Development on
http://www.cipav.org.co/lrrd/lrrdhome.html
wher4e you will find a great number of articles on this subject ,e.g. Vol.
9,no.2 (1997) by An, Preston and Dolberg: The introduction of low-cost
polyethylene tube biodigesters on small scale farms in Vietnam.
You can also visit http://www.ias.unu.edu/proceedings/icibs
and you will find amongst others an article by Moog and coworkers on:
Promotion and utilisatyion of polyethylene biodigester in smallhold farming
systems in the Philippines'
I hope you find these useful. We certainly find a better ear for our health
warnings in these developing countries who suffer under them than in our own
country.
Best of luck and if you have any further question, please let me know.
Horst
Horst W.Doelle, D.Sc., D.Sc. [h.c.]
Chairman, IOBB
Director, MIRCEN-Biotechnology
FAX: +617-38783230
Email: doelle@ozemail.com.au
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| Message 10 |
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Subject: Re: Animal waste
From: doelle
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 09:27:50 +1100
Collin,
Many thanks for the explanation. I fully agree with you. The use of human
and animal manure was not only used traditionally in Asia on the farms ,
but all over the world. I still remember as a boy in the 1940s, that my
grandfather emptied the septic system into his garden and the farmer in
big lorries onto the field.
This, however was in the days of lower population, of NO chicken or other
animal farming and also in those days we had no antibiotics or hormones
to feed the animals to get a good price on the market.
This situation has changed and so the drastical resistancy and effect on
human lifes.
ARE YOU PREPARED TO TAKE THE RISK THAT YOUR BIOFERTILISATION WITH MANURE
CAUSES AN OUTBREAK OF DISEASE ? That is the question, as farmers are not
able to judge how many pathogens are in the manure.
We have to educate people to stop with that practise because of the risk
involved. That has nothing to do with scaremongering or so. FAO figures
clearly show that the infectious diseases are on the increase again. I am
only talking about bacteria and have not even mentioned viruses in my
discussion.
Best regards
Horst
At 10:12 AM 23/01/99 +0800, you wrote:
>>>>
List members
As Horst has pointed out, the practise of rearing animals above
ponds where various species are cultured is widespread in Asia.
If a problem exists with this then I believe it is the clash between
traditional farming practises and the modern industrial approach.
In other words it is not the practise per se that's at
fault but rather
it's possible misuse by individuals.
To explain. When I was observing the raising of carp here in
Hong Kong in the mid-70's, it was pointed out that the ratio of
ducks to fish (several carp species usually) was common know-
ledge in the villages concerned and this information had been
handed down for centuries in China. There did not seem to be any
ill effects or the method would have been discontinued or further
adapted. However, I have recorded the use of ponds as a sewer/
latrine next to piggeries where over 200 porkers were housed. Even
then the pond ecosystem appeared to be able to cope,
perhaps the
dilution of the waste by the farmer made it acceptable. This
practise is being fine-tuned at the Asian Institute of Technology in
Bangkok to bring in other animal types. Goats are tethered above
very small ponds holding tilapia to determine the acceptable
carrying capacity. After the World Aquaculture Society's meeting
in 1996 delegates were bussed to the Institute and the loudest
reaction pondside came from those living northwest of Cuba :)
So perhaps it is not the practise that's at fault, but simply the
manner in which it's implimented and of course the degree.
Pathogens may indeed be present but if the carrying capacity
is reasonable, they may not pose an unacceptable hazard. But
I'm in no way a micro-biologist and so I'll take a quick step to
the rear.
Cheers
Colin
<<<<<<<<
Horst W.Doelle, D.Sc., D.Sc. [h.c.]
Chairman, IOBB
Director, MIRCEN-Biotechnology
FAX: +617-38783230
Email: doelle@ozemail.com.au
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| Message 11 |
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Subject: Re: Model rocketry---Re: Thinking of Unsubscribing
From: Michael Strates
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 21:22:19 +1100 (EST)
On Sun, 24 Jan 1999, William Evans wrote:
WE> Were at your beckon call... come on lets fill his brain up!Lets be
WE> pertinent..
My signature file was just to alert people about my new URL. I've received
100s of e-mails asking "why doesn't your website work", and hence I needed
a quick way to get it out to everyone.
It's out of my sig now.. Happy? :-)
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| Message 12 |
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Subject: Glowing cash crop
From: "KevinLReed"
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 17:20:19 -0800
Hi All,
We have just completed our new green house specially made for our transgenic
plants.
Having found a commercial use for glow in the dark plants using firefly
luciferse genes it may be that we will soon become filthy wealthy from this
" crop".
These GE ( no pun intended) plants contain a male sterility construct to
prevent formation of pollen and transmission of their traits to other
plants. Also, after being planted for only three to five days they are
removed and destroyed, then replaced by new plants so they will always look
absolutely perfect as this is important to our customer. I would like to
thank some of the group for pointing out that the evil giant Monsanto has
lots of money. It seems that a substantial part of our new income will be in
the form of sponsorship by this company. They are interested as I am in
showing the public that GE plants are not a hazard to the public welfare if
they are handled in a responsible way. So killing two bird with one stone
and I will get to put more money in the bank while sleeping very well at
night as to how the money is earned.
When you listen to what is being said even an opposing point of view can be
very beneficial. Thanks again.
Kevin
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| Message 13 |
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Subject: Re: Ted
From: doelle
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 12:31:29 +1100
Adriana,
Many thanks for your encouragement. I have received indeed a huge number of
enquiries regarding cheap and efficient digesters. This is encouraging.
It is still my opinion that people can do whatever they like as long as they
are aware of certain dangers and that they are taking a risk, although this
risk may not always be obvious.
Thanks
Horst
Horst W.Doelle, D.Sc., D.Sc. [h.c.]
Chairman, IOBB
Director, MIRCEN-Biotechnology
FAX: +617-38783230
Email: doelle@ozemail.com.au
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| Message 14 |
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Subject: Re: Organics Gaining Ground Approval
From: doelle
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 12:37:42 +1100
David,
Many thanks for drawing our attention to this article. As I mentioned on a=
number of occasions, the word =F3rganic' has to be defined. If all manure=
containing antibiotics and hormones are excluded, the majority of animal=
and human waste would not be allowed onto the field. This is great and=
certainly shows the enormous responsibility of USDA. I sincerely hope that=
the regulation comes through.
On the other hand it is very disappointing to realise that we have to have=
for everything a law and that one cannot reason with some people in the=
biofertiliser area.
Horst
Horst W.Doelle, D.Sc., D.Sc. [h.c.]
Chairman, IOBB
Director, MIRCEN-Biotechnology
FAX: +617-38783230
Email: doelle@ozemail.com.au
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| Message 15 |
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Subject: Animal waste
From: Colin Johnston
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 22:30:31 +0800
List members
As Horst has pointed out, the practise of rearing animals above
ponds where various species are cultured is widespread in Asia.
If a problem exists with this then I believe it is the clash between
traditional farming practises and the modern industrial approach.
In other words it is not the practise per se that's at fault but rather
it's possible misuse by individuals.
To explain. When I was observing the raising of carp here in
Hong Kong in the mid-70's, it was pointed out that the ratio of
ducks to fish (several carp species usually) was common know-
ledge in the villages concerned and this information had been
handed down for centuries in China. There did not seem to be any
ill effects or the method would have been discontinued or further
adapted. However, I have recorded the use of ponds as a sewer/
latrine next to piggeries where over 200 porkers were housed. Even
then the pond ecosystem appeared to be able to cope, perhaps the
dilution of the waste by the farmer made it acceptable. This
practise is being fine-tuned at the Asian Institute of Technology in
Bangkok to bring in other animal types. Goats are tethered above
very small ponds holding tilapia to determine the acceptable
carrying capacity. After the World Aquaculture Society's meeting
in 1996 delegates were bussed to the Institute and the loudest
reaction pondside came from those living northwest of Cuba :)
So perhaps it is not the practise that's at fault, but simply the
manner in which it's implimented and of course the degree.
Pathogens may indeed be present but if the carrying capacity
is reasonable, they may not pose an unacceptable hazard. But
I'm in no way a micro-biologist and so I'll take a quick step to
the rear.
Cheers
Colin
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| Message 16 |
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Subject: Chicken Poop
From: Colin Johnston
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 22:29:48 +0800
Terry
>I have a brochure I acquired from Auburn University about Tilapia raising in
>Guatemala. They were quite specific in praising the idea of chicken coops
>directly above the ponds so the excreta would fall through into the water.
>I believe the idea was to create a more friendly environment for the algae
>growth, and hence food for the Tilapia. Is this in fact, not a good idea, what
>with the pathogens going into the water straight from
>the chickens? I was planning on doing this on my place in Belize.
As I've mentioned elsewhere, I believe that it's a question of getting the
ratio of poultry to aquatic systems right and not overloading the environment.
AIT in Bangkok has plenty of papers on this aspect of polyculture and you
may wish to access their homepage on the net to get contacts. Prof. Kwei
Lin and his staff would, no doubt, be happy to assist.
Whilst a bit superficial this link examines briefly an expect of polyculture.
Take it from there :
Cheers
Colin
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| Message 17 |
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Subject: Re: Ted
From: Michael Strates
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 03:03:02 +1100 (EST)
Horst,
d> Many thanks for your encouragement. I have received indeed a huge
d> number of enquiries regarding cheap and efficient digesters. This is
d> encouraging.
For those interested in experimenting with methane digestion, I can supply
plans for a pop-bottle methane digestor, which will make just enough
methane to make a small flame for a couple of minutes.
I have a trashcan digester which I made myself, and it works very well.
The number one rule with a digester of any sort is (listen carefully):
DONT LET ANY AIR INTO THE DIGESTION CHAMBER
As a precaution buy a burnback arrestor, and even place a small amount of
glasswool at 6" intervals throughout the pipe. This will slow your flow
down dramatically, but will significantly reduce the chances of
backburning.
d> It is still my opinion that people can do whatever they like as long
d> as they are aware of certain dangers and that they are taking a
d> risk, although this risk may not always be obvious.
Be careful of anerobic bacteria.. alot of them (most of them) are baddies.
Check out my new lite signature file folks:
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