Aquaponics Digest - Wed 02/10/99
Message 1: Re: Redclaw Sources in Oz
from MajorDad38
Message 2: Re: Pool turning into Reality
from KLOTTTRUE
Message 3: Aquaponics systems safety, was Re: Pool turning into Reality
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 4: RE: Redclaw Sources in Oz
from "Todd O'Connell"
Message 5: Small shipments of Tilapia
from "Ronald W. Brooks"
Message 6: red claw
from R Nelson
Message 7: Re: Redclaw Sources in Oz
from "brett deiser"
Message 8: Re: Redclaw Sources in Oz
from PHRL33A@prodigy.com (MS JEAN R SHAFFER)
Message 9: Re: Aquaponics systems safety, was Re: Pool turning into Reality
from Michael Strates
Message 10: Re: Redclaw Sources in Oz
from Michael Strates
Message 11: Re: Redclaw Sources in Oz
from Gordon Watkins
Message 12: Re: Small shipments of Tilapia
from KLOTTTRUE
Message 13: Re: Pool turning into Reality
from KLOTTTRUE
Message 14: Re: Aquaponics systems safety, was Re: Pool turning into Reality
from KLOTTTRUE
Message 15: Re: Pool turning into Reality
from doelle
Message 16: Re: Pool turning into Reality
from doelle
Message 17: Re: Pool turning into Reality
from Michael Strates
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Subject: Re: Redclaw Sources in Oz
From: MajorDad38
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 03:12:42 EST
Michael;
For an extensive source of aquatic species, check out www.aquafind.com.
Dick Bristol
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Subject: Re: Pool turning into Reality
From: KLOTTTRUE
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 05:48:05 EST
Good Morning All this talk about E.coli and Pathogens is kind of scary,is this
a major or reoccuring problem in aquaponics? Ken
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Subject: Aquaponics systems safety, was Re: Pool turning into Reality
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 07:32:58 -0600
At 05:48 AM 2/10/99 EST, Ken wrote:
>Good Morning All this talk about E.coli and Pathogens is kind of scary,is this
>a major or reoccuring problem in aquaponics? Ken
Ken - No, it's not a problem in aquaponics systems, at least not to our
knowledge in the systems with which we're familiar.
Dr. Doelle has had experience with other types of food production systems in
many countries where contamination has been a problem, though, and tries to
keep us all aware of the potential dangers of pathogens in food systems.
And Michael, I'm not aware that you've stated just what your experience
level is - how long have you been running your aquaponics system? Is there
some reason you intend using all the various water treatment systems you've
described? Have you had negative experiences that require the treatment
levels you seem to support?
Paula
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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Subject: RE: Redclaw Sources in Oz
From: "Todd O'Connell"
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:41:34 -0500
I found this FAQ on Redclaw farming very interesting:
http://badgerstate.com/JAWS/faqs/redclaw_farming.htm
-----Original Message-----
From: Adriana Gutierrez [SMTP:gutierrez-lagatta@home.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 2:00 PM
To: aquaponics@townsqr.com
Subject: Re: Redclaw Sources in Oz
Are Redclaw and yabbies one and the same? Who was it that had
problems with cannibalism of redclaw babies on this list?
Adrian
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Subject: Small shipments of Tilapia
From: "Ronald W. Brooks"
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:39:25 -0500
I must of deleted the post on who was looking for small quantity's of
mixed sex Tilapia . I have found a source that is very reasonable ( .25
@ ) shipping is $50 no matter amount ( shipped overnight)
Contact
Living Waters Tilapia Farm
(601)795-8094
they are happy to ship small orders
I also have a contact in Florida for Wild caught Tilapia . these are part
of an exotic removal program if you want this name drop me a line
Ron
The One Who Walks Two Paths
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Subject: red claw
From: R Nelson
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:40:36 -0800
KLOTTTRUE wrote:
>
> Can you raise Crawfish in tanks? If so what size tank would be required?
> thanks Ken
Recently I visited an Australian Red Claw Farm in Northern California.
The owner has been raising Red Claw in tanks in a 4,000 sq ft greenhouse
for 10 years. The tanks are rectangular, approx 6' x 14' x 2' high. It
appeared to quite successful and he was selling them for $10 - $16/lb
Last year I raised about 30 Australian Red Claw in a circular, 500 gal
tank with other fish. They were less than compatible with that design
because they and the pipes we put in there for shelter often blocked the
intake for the filtration system. Eventually I moved them into
aquariums where some of them still live.
Rebecca
Nelson/Pade Multimedia - Aquaponics Journal - Aquaponics Technology
Center
the source for information on aquaponics, hydroponics and aquaculture
http://www.aquaponics.com phone (209)742-6869 fax (209)742-4402
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Subject: Re: Redclaw Sources in Oz
From: "brett deiser"
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 11:24:11 PST
>The greatest advantage to Redclaw over US native crays is size. Redclaw
will
>grow up to 14 oz. in 2 years, compared to 1 oz for natives. In addition
>Redclaw yield over twice the percentage of edible tail meat.
>
> Gordon
Is there a source in the U.S. in or near Missouri?
Keep your nose to the grindstone, Your eye on the ball, and Your
ear to the ground, and try to work in that position!!
Brett:-}
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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Subject: Re: Redclaw Sources in Oz
From: PHRL33A@prodigy.com (MS JEAN R SHAFFER)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:32:40, -0500
Dear Michael
Thanks for letting me know yabbies will keep growing bigger in water
as low as 40 degrees F.
Question #1.Do you know if they will survive, and if so, even grow
bigger in water that is not having oxygen pumped in it?
#2 My tank is 31 ft long 31 inches wide and 23 inches tall. Thus a
large surface area to volume. Do you think that would be enough
oxygen without introducing oxygen with electric motor?
#3 Are these the creatures that need to be kept from jumping out,
over the sides?
#4 If the answer to 1 and 2 are positive, do you know where I can
get yabbies? I live in Olympia WA if they cannot be shipped far.
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| Message 9 |
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Subject: Re: Aquaponics systems safety, was Re: Pool turning into Reality
From: Michael Strates
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 17:40:07 +1100 (EST)
On Wed, 10 Feb 1999, S & S Aqua Farm wrote:
SSAF> And Michael, I'm not aware that you've stated just what your experience
SSAF> level is - how long have you been running your aquaponics system? Is
there
SSAF> some reason you intend using all the various water treatment systems
you've
SSAF> described? Have you had negative experiences that require the treatment
SSAF> levels you seem to support?
Yes, the last water quality sample (Dec 98) revealed that there were
sufficient amounts of e.coli and fecal coliforms in the aquaponics water.
How they got there is a mystery.
My system has been operating for a little over a year.
--
e-mail: mstrates@croftj.net www: http://www.croftj.net/~mstrates
See keyservers for PGP info. Linux! The OS of my Choice!
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned
skyward, for there you have been, and there you long to return."
- Leonardo da Vinci, and below an extract from John Fogerty's song:
Hey, Tonight - Gonna be tonight- Don't you know I'm flyin'- Tonight
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| Message 10 |
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Subject: Re: Redclaw Sources in Oz
From: Michael Strates
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 17:51:16 +1100 (EST)
On Wed, 10 Feb 1999, MS JEAN R SHAFFER wrote:
MJRS> Thanks for letting me know yabbies will keep growing bigger in water
MJRS> as low as 40 degrees F.
Like I said, 40oF was just my observation. There's probably a better
estimate in some aquaculture book.
MJRS> Question #1.Do you know if they will survive, and if so, even grow
MJRS> bigger in water that is not having oxygen pumped in it?
Yabbies, like all aquatic animals have gills and for them to work they
have to have some dissolved oxygen to work with. Whether its the same
amount as fish is a different story.
In a plastic tank which I keep 15 yabbies (its about 5x10ft) inside of my
greenhouse there is only two airstones.. one in each of the hides. This
seems sufficient, and they are driven by a tiny 10W pump. I'm sure the dO2
level of this tank would be sufficiently lower than that one that is
optimal for goldfish.
MJRS> #2 My tank is 31 ft long 31 inches wide and 23 inches tall. Thus a
MJRS> large surface area to volume. Do you think that would be enough
MJRS> oxygen without introducing oxygen with electric motor?
Even dams and lakes get aerated by the wind. If you run the hose above the
pond for about a minute a day that should "splash" enough O2 into the
water. I'd personally recommend spending $10 on a small airpump.
MJRS> #3 Are these the creatures that need to be kept from jumping out,
MJRS> over the sides?
Definetely. They climb up airlines, vaccuum tubing, et al.. Like I said, I
woke up one day and got nipped by a runaway yabby in my bathroom. The best
way I've seen to contain them in the ponds is just to lay mosquito netting
over the top of the pond.
MJRS> #4 If the answer to 1 and 2 are positive, do you know where I can
MJRS> get yabbies? I live in Olympia WA if they cannot be shipped far.
Well, they might not be exactly what you want. I know of people that keep
them with no aeration (just a small dam), so I'm not an expert on that.
You could probably even get away with taking a bucket and then splashing
the water down every night.. that should provide enough O2 for them.
Personally, I think if the system needs to operate out somewhere where
power isn't a possibility.. just chuck a small 12V battery in a container
and run a pump off that -- it should last for at least one week
continiously blowing.
Or, just use a small PV panel. It'll aerate the water of the day, and let
it rest of a night. Such a panel can be sought for only $20-$25 (you only
want a 10W).
--
e-mail: mstrates@croftj.net www: http://www.croftj.net/~mstrates
See keyservers for PGP info. Linux! The OS of my Choice!
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned
skyward, for there you have been, and there you long to return."
- Leonardo da Vinci, and below an extract from John Fogerty's song:
Hey, Tonight - Gonna be tonight- Don't you know I'm flyin'- Tonight
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Subject: Re: Redclaw Sources in Oz
From: Gordon Watkins
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:12:26 -0600
I've purchased redclaw from Belmont Springs, UT. Call Scott Holmgren at
801-458-3200 or2200. There's also a place in New Cambria, MO called Tropical
Blues at 816-226-5373 but I know nothing about them.
Gordon
brett deiser wrote:
> >The greatest advantage to Redclaw over US native crays is size. Redclaw
> will
> >grow up to 14 oz. in 2 years, compared to 1 oz for natives. In addition
> >Redclaw yield over twice the percentage of edible tail meat.
> >
> > Gordon
> Is there a source in the U.S. in or near Missouri?
>
> Keep your nose to the grindstone, Your eye on the ball, and Your
> ear to the ground, and try to work in that position!!
> Brett:-}
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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| Message 12 |
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Subject: Re: Small shipments of Tilapia
From: KLOTTTRUE
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 20:24:06 EST
how many tilapia can you grow, in say 1000 gallons of water?
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Subject: Re: Pool turning into Reality
From: KLOTTTRUE
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 20:44:10 EST
I know it would be better to use 20 or 30 mil,but I'm one of those do it
yourselfers,who tries to keep cost to a minimum until I see if it is going to
work for me.Would it be possible to use the 6 mil poly greenhouse plastic on a
trial basis,even if it is just for a year or two? Does anyone know if its
toxic.Thanks Ken
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Subject: Re: Aquaponics systems safety, was Re: Pool turning into Reality
From: KLOTTTRUE
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 20:33:56 EST
Thanks, Paula, I feel better knowing that.
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Subject: Re: Pool turning into Reality
From: doelle
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 15:34:03 +1100
Dear Michael,
In general, there are little problems with pathogens in aquaponic systems as
long as it does not come into contact with any type of manure. I agree here
with the message Paula send on 10th February.
However, E.coli, Legionella and Giardia are very dangerous pathogens and the
water must be treated before being used. It is correct that most of these
can be killed at 65C, but others which form spores can not be treated and
you need 120C.
The systems in the USA are very sanitary unless people use 'biofertiliser'
in form of manure.
There are very few if any 'good bugs' which eat the 'bad bugs'. That would
be phantastic and we had the problem solved.
Clorination normally helps also to remove the common pathogens. All these
things you are doing.
you wrote:
>
>The above ground swimming pool (really a water tank) will be initially
>filled with fresh, chlorinated water and over a three day period the
>chlorine will dissipate, and we'll be left with hopefully almost sterile
>water.
I fully agree.
>Will the good bacteria kill the bad bacteria, what is the story here? Is
>there specific bacterial cultures which can selectively kill certain
>pathogens?
Unfortunately the simple answer is NO.
Replacing over about 1% of the total pool water per week in
>this setup is impossible and also will cost alot of money. The pool itself
>will take a good few days to fill with a hose.
>
We should you have to refill IF you do not feed or add manure ?
Simple sanitary conditions are always the best. I hope I have made you
breath easier.
Best wishes
Horst
Horst W.Doelle, D.Sc., D.Sc. [h.c.]
Chairman, IOBB
Director, MIRCEN-Biotechnology
FAX: +617-38783230
Email: doelle@ozemail.com.au
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Subject: Re: Pool turning into Reality
From: doelle
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 15:36:58 +1100
Ken,
This may sound scary, but has been with us for centuries. Only the bugs
became more vicious and the human more lax in sanitary attitudes.
I fully agree with Paula that if you system does not come into contact with
any manure, you have little problems in regards to the pathogens.
Best wishes
Horst
At 05:48 AM 10/02/99 EST, you wrote:
>Good Morning All this talk about E.coli and Pathogens is kind of scary,is this
>a major or reoccuring problem in aquaponics? Ken
>
>
Horst W.Doelle, D.Sc., D.Sc. [h.c.]
Chairman, IOBB
Director, MIRCEN-Biotechnology
FAX: +617-38783230
Email: doelle@ozemail.com.au
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Subject: Re: Pool turning into Reality
From: Michael Strates
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 03:01:41 +1100 (EST)
On Thu, 11 Feb 1999, doelle wrote:
Before I continue, I'd like to congratulate everyone in this group for
making it such a great source of information - not only on aquaponics, but
on the microbiology involved in general. Thanks again to all that have
contributed.
d> However, E.coli, Legionella and Giardia are very dangerous pathogens
d> and the water must be treated before being used. It is correct that
d> most of these can be killed at 65C, but others which form spores can
d> not be treated and you need 120C.
Legionella spores float in the air, and could probably be in the
greenhouse air anyhow. Assuming that spores get into the water, will the
bacteria grow and prosper in the aquaponics environment. I realise that
most of these pathogens are anerobic, so I'd assume heavy and frequent
aeration is a good idea?
d> The systems in the USA are very sanitary unless people use
d> 'biofertiliser' in form of manure.
I generally supplement the aquaponics water with small amounts of liquid
worm castings (just what runs off the wormfarm). I know that it is very
rich in bacteria. Would it be okay if I chlorinated/uv sterlized (both)
the casting "tea", and then run the tea through activated carbon, leaving
a sterile tea to mix with the aquaponics feed?
d> There are very few if any 'good bugs' which eat the 'bad bugs'. That
d> would be phantastic and we had the problem solved.
That was my original thought.
d> Clorination normally helps also to remove the common pathogens. All
d> these things you are doing.
Does peroxide kill some that chlorine doesn't? I was thinking of trying
ozonation of the water. I have the absolute simplest way to produce
ozone.. I brought a $23 jacobs ladder from the local electronics
retailer.. I'm going to seal this in a glass tank and run air through one
end, leave for a few minutes and then hopefully ozone will emerge from the
other end.
In the test which I tried yesterday, the ozone seemed to kill EVERYTHING
in the sample of humanure/water which I treated... very promising.
Thanks in advance, Michael.
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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