Aquaponics Digest - Fri 03/05/99
Message 1: Re: Mushrooms in the Greenhouse
from KLOTTTRUE
Message 2: Re: Specs
from jilli and lars
Message 3: Wriggly Wranch vermicomposter.
from jilli and lars
Message 4: Re: My experiment so far
from KLOTTTRUE
Message 5: Re: Specs
from KLOTTTRUE
Message 6: RE: My experiment so far
from "Ronald W. Brooks"
Message 7: Re: Wriggly Wranch vermicomposter.
from Gordon Watkins
Message 8: Re: My experiment so far
from KLOTTTRUE
Message 9: Re: Species
from KLOTTTRUE
Message 10: Re: Wriggly Wranch vermicomposter.
from Adriana Gutierrez
Message 11: Re: Organic Aquatic Livestock Recommendations
from "Wendy Nagurny"
Message 12: Re: Organic Aquatic Livestock Recommendations
from Gordon Watkins
Message 13: There's something in the Water!
from Michael Strates
Message 14: Re: Wriggly Wranch vermicomposter.
from Michael Strates
Message 15: Re: There's something in the Water!
from "Palchik"
Message 16: Re: Species
from khale@ballistic.com
Message 17: Re: There's something in the Water!
from Michael Strates
Message 18: Re: There's something in the Water!
from Chris Hedemark
Message 19: Re: There's something in the Water!
from Michael Strates
Message 20: Re: There's something in the Water!
from Glen Seibert
Message 21: Re: There's something in the Water!
from "Robert Kenyon"
Message 22: Re: There's something in the Water!
from "Ted Ground"
Message 23: Re: There's something in the Water!
from KLOTTTRUE
Message 24: RE: Wriggly Wranch vermicomposter.
from Andrew
Message 25: Re: There's something in the Water!
from MUDDTOO
Message 26: Re: There's something in the Water!
from "Wendy Nagurny"
Message 27: Re: There's something in the Water!
from KLOTTTRUE
Message 28: Re: There's something in the Water!
from Michael Strates
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| Message 1 |
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Subject: Re: Mushrooms in the Greenhouse
From: KLOTTTRUE
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 04:18:06 EST
shiitake
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| Message 2 |
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Subject: Re: Specs
From: jilli and lars
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 23:50:13 -0800
so I guess one can say we're stuck in a rut...
lars
Marc S. Nameth wrote:
> The following was sent to me today. Thought it might be
> interesting.
> >>
> >> How Specs Live Forever
> >> (2 March 1999)
>
> >> Well, if they tried to use any other
> >> spacing the wagons would break on some
> >> of the old, long distance roads, because
> >> that's the spacing of the old wheel ruts.
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Subject: Wriggly Wranch vermicomposter.
From: jilli and lars
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 09:58:34 -0800
hi jean -
I'm sorry this took so long. The friend who I lent my Wriggly
Wranch vermicomposter manual to THREW IT OUT! I couldn't believe it.
Honest mistake, not maliciously, but still - you'd think they could at
least compost it. Anyway, I had assumed that all the information would
be there. I looked on the unit itself, but it just says its made by Reln
Plastics, Australia. That being no enough to go on, I found out SLUG
(Sanfrancisco League of Urban Gardeners) was the local distributor. They
gave me this number in LA :
(310) 412-8459
I don't actually know what is on the other end of that number, but
they'll probably know what you're talking about when you ask for the
WrWr. Good luck and tell me how it goes.
Mine's still working really well. I also noticed a good bit of heat
coming off the surface - so i've got another source of heat for my frog
module!
lars fields
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Subject: Re: My experiment so far
From: KLOTTTRUE
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 04:38:45 EST
In a message dated 3/4/99 3:11:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, orchid@kellnet.com
writes:
<< On Feb. 10th I received 29 mixed sex Nile Tilapia with a weight of 116
grams. >>
Hi Ron,I'm new at this,are these results good,bad, or average? Thanks Ken
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Subject: Re: Specs
From: KLOTTTRUE
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 05:45:30 EST
In a message dated 3/5/99 4:49:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, phlesch@sfo.com
writes:
<< so I guess one can say we're stuck in a rut...
lars >>
Morning Frisco,Or we could say what goes around comes around. There is nothing
new under the sun.A few weeks ago,there was a discussion about the origins of
aquaponics.A couple of years ago,I was researching the roman empire,It turns
out that they grew fish in rock lined ponds,and watered their gardens from
these ponds.Whether they knew the benefits from this or not,I don't know,but I
personally believe they did.History is like a big wheel,Ideas,beliefs,and
methods,die out for the sake of something better,new,or just different.And
when it comes back,someone attaches a new label.That is what is so appealing
to me,about aquaponics,that it works the old way.I am concerned however that
in Man's quest for more,faster, aquaponics could be reduced to rubble. People
are concerned about feeding an evergrowing population,if we're not
careful,there could not be anyone to come to the table. I'm going for
better,instead of more! And I pray that everyone out there will keep the greed
weed out of their greenhouse.It spreads faster than Kudzu.Thanks A concerned
Grandfather
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Subject: RE: My experiment so far
From: "Ronald W. Brooks"
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:10:03 -0500
Well I would say this is good Doubled in size in just under a month :~)
I really am not sure if this is typical with Nile Tilapia
I do have another species Tilapia Buttikofferi but their growth rate is very
slow after 5 months they have gained 10 grams , not what I would consider a
feasible grow out period. I plant to eventually have 6 species of Tilapia
going so I can compare growth rates -vs- feed inputs and grow out times
I have ordered some Tilapia Mariae
Still looking for a source of Mozambique , Aurea and Red Tilapia mixed sex
fingerlings.
Ron
The One Who Walks Two Paths
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| Message 7 |
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Subject: Re: Wriggly Wranch vermicomposter.
From: Gordon Watkins
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 09:45:23 -0600
I received my Wriggly Wranch from the local solid waste management
district, but the literature shows the national distributor is: Squiggly
Ranch, 888-469-6767. I've seen them sold on lots of web sites also.
Gordon
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Subject: Re: My experiment so far
From: KLOTTTRUE
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 11:20:17 EST
In a message dated 3/5/99 10:55:21 AM Eastern Standard Time,
orchid@kellnet.com writes:
<< Well I would say this is good Doubled in size in just under a month :~)
I really am not sure if this is typical with Nile Tilapia >>
Thanks Ron
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| Message 9 |
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Subject: Re: Species
From: KLOTTTRUE
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 12:02:29 EST
Hello everyone, I had a few setbacks on my project,dryer caught fire,Oak tree
fell on house,leg got infected again,other than that,Lifes a cherry.Back on
track now,Fish tanks in,growing beds complete,wiring done,installing plumbing
now.I hope to be putting in fish and crops in 1 week. Which leads me to this
question. I would like to get as many opinions as possible from those of you
who raiseTilapia,which ones do you raise,pro's and con's. To any who will
Thanks in advance Ken
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| Message 10 |
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Subject: Re: Wriggly Wranch vermicomposter.
From: Adriana Gutierrez
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 12:48:57 -0500
I found a web site which indicates that Squiggly Ranch only sells
to local governments. Price $59 + freight. See
http://www.ciwmb.ca.gov/organics/worms/WrmSuply.htm#boxes
However, if you have a friend in San Francisco you can get one
through Cole Hardware for $24. See
http://www.colehardware.com/hotline/98/11/wormbins.htm
Squiggly Ranch must have a special "discount" for government
groups, huh?
Adriana
Gordon Watkins wrote:
>
> I received my Wriggly Wranch from the local solid waste management
> district, but the literature shows the national distributor is: Squiggly
> Ranch, 888-469-6767. I've seen them sold on lots of web sites also.
> Gordon
>
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Subject: Re: Organic Aquatic Livestock Recommendations
From: "Wendy Nagurny"
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:55:06 -0500
Gordon,
>
> Thanks for your excellent comments on the pending legislation. I hope
you
>passed them along to the USDA.
Thanks. I have not passed them along yet. I was waiting for some comments
to see if I perhaps misunderstood anything.
> Regarding your comments on genetic modification and all-male
populations, I
>think it will be a hard sell to allow hormones to be used for certified
organic
>production, residue testing notwithstanding. It's just too controversial an
>issue.
I agree with you. I have some problems myself with hormone-modified fish.
Besides, there are good alternatives available. I'm currently producing
>all-male tilapia by crossing a hornorum with a mossambica or nilotica.
I have seen Mike Snipe's discussions about the hornorum "Supermale" crosses.
I have a question. Do all hornorum posses the ZZ chromosomes or are the
ones he sells a genetic oddity? I have not seen anyone else offering the
hornorums for sale. This is why it made me wonder if they were some sort of
a rarity that he had found. If all hornorum crosses will produce all-male
offspring, then this is the way to go and I would gladly see hormone induced
maleness banned. If Snipes are the only ones which will produce the all
males, than I have a problem with "sole source" requirements.
Wendy
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Subject: Re: Organic Aquatic Livestock Recommendations
From: Gordon Watkins
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 13:47:57 -0600
Wendy,
My understanding (and I'm pretty weak in genetics) is that all hornorum
males will produce all-male offspring when crossed with female mossambicas,
niloticas, and perhaps others as well. If you read Mike's info closely, you'll
see that he's not really offering "supermales", just pure hornorums. Although
the fish he offers are improved lines, Mike Sipe doesn't have a corner on the
hornorum market, although I've had difficulty finding them elsewhere. Other
types of tilapia are generally preferred for commercial production and because
methyltestosterone is the preferred method for sex reversal there just isn't
much interest in hornorums, which accounts for their rarity in the marketplace.
Gordon
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Subject: There's something in the Water!
From: Michael Strates
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 17:53:23 +1100 (EST)
Folks,
Yesterday whilst trying to siphon water out of a "green" tank with carp in
it, I swallowed about one mouthful of the water. I didn't think much of
it until this morning (now).
I don't feel like I have the flu nor a fever (temp is fine, and my stomach
doesn't hurt) its just my tonsils and all inside of my mouth hurt.
Its more pain then I have ever imagined -- should I see a doctor? Does
anybody know what this is?
--
e-mail: mstrates@croftj.net www: http://www.croftj.net/~mstrates
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Subject: Re: Wriggly Wranch vermicomposter.
From: Michael Strates
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 18:04:11 +1100 (EST)
On Thu, 4 Mar 1999, jilli and lars wrote:
jal> Mine's still working really well. I also noticed a good bit of heat
jal> coming off the surface - so i've got another source of heat for my frog
jal> module!
Reprinted from Michael Strates' Online Worm Guide
(C) 1999 Michael Strates
Heat in a worm farm is generally a good sign, providing that it is not too
intense. Worms cannot survive over approx. 35oC so a measurment of heat
using a standard thermometer "ploughed" into the wormfarm's bedding should
reveal a temperature preferably of ~25oC.
If your vermiculture installation is warming up too much, then you can
either put a thicker laying of bedding for the worms to escape to, or go
high-tech and install a small submersible pump, a coil of small aquarium
hosing in the warmest section which cool tap or pond water slowly flows
through.
--
e-mail: mstrates@croftj.net www: http://www.croftj.net/~mstrates
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Subject: Re: There's something in the Water!
From: "Palchik"
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 22:39:12 +0200
Do not worry.
It hapend to me 100 times
Mauricio
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Subject: Re: Species
From: khale@ballistic.com
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 14:52:03 -0600
depends on your market- if its meat your after the most popular is the
nilotica.
Ken------------------------------------------------------------------At
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Subject: Re: There's something in the Water!
From: Michael Strates
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 19:25:39 +1100 (EST)
William,
Your system is infected with the happy99 virus. I just got it sent to me
from your system. Please remove it. I posted the instructions to the list
several weeks ago for removal.
--
e-mail: mstrates@croftj.net www: http://www.croftj.net/~mstrates
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Subject: Re: There's something in the Water!
From: Chris Hedemark
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 17:59:14 -0500
Michael Strates wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
> Yesterday whilst trying to siphon water out of a "green" tank with carp in
> it, I swallowed about one mouthful of the water. I didn't think much of
> it until this morning (now).
You know, you can get a siphon going without using your mouth. Submerge
the hose in the water completely, cap your thumb over one end, take it
out of the tank and don't release your thumb until the capped end is
lower than the uncapped end.
Is the water fed by a local stream? There is some nasty stuff that
comes from deer/moose/bear droppings that leeches out into the water. I
found out hard the first time I went on an extended hike of the A.T. as
a teenager and just about dihydrated myself through rapid loss of bodily
fluids (and not from the normal places bodily fluids are released).
I don't see a doctor, ever, unless I think something is seriously wrong
and won't fix itself. But my wife says I'm foolish for that (at least
she hasn't spotted all the other reasons yet!)
--
Chris Hedemark
Email: chris@yonderway.com ICQ: 28986378
Rural Living at Yonder Way - http://www.yonderway.com/rural
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Subject: Re: There's something in the Water!
From: Michael Strates
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 21:06:01 +1100 (EST)
On Fri, 5 Mar 1999, Chris Hedemark wrote:
CH> Is the water fed by a local stream? There is some nasty stuff that
CH> comes from deer/moose/bear droppings that leeches out into the water. I
CH> found out hard the first time I went on an extended hike of the A.T. as
No.. It comes from city water supply. I'll take a sample of the water
later and see if I can find anything in it.
--
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Subject: Re: There's something in the Water!
From: Glen Seibert
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 16:35:43 -0800
Michael Strates wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
> Yesterday whilst trying to siphon water out of a "green" tank with > carp in
> it, I swallowed about one mouthful of the water my tonsils and >
all inside of my mouth hurt.
>
> Its more pain then I have ever imagined -- should I see a doctor? Does
> anybody know what this is?
Ye Gods, Man! All that education and interest in biological sciences and
you need even ASK?! Ofcourse you should see a doctor. Whats the worst
that could happen..he tells you you worry too much and stop sucking fish
water...
--
Glen Seibert
Fullerton College
Hydroponics
http://www.hydroponicsonline.com/club.htm
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Subject: Re: There's something in the Water!
From: "Robert Kenyon"
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 18:45:19 -0600
Hello, is this email intended to come to me or did it arrive by a fluke?
Please let me know. Robert Kenyon
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Strates
To: William Evans
Cc: aquaponics@townsqr.com
Date: Friday, March 05, 1999 3:24 PM
Subject: Re: There's something in the Water!
>William,
>
>Your system is infected with the happy99 virus. I just got it sent to me
>from your system. Please remove it. I posted the instructions to the list
>several weeks ago for removal.
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Subject: Re: There's something in the Water!
From: "Ted Ground"
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 18:42:20 -0600
Michael,
In order of probability, I would say you could have exposed yourself to the
following:
1) There may be protozoans/amoeba in the water you swallowed which are
chewing up materials of your throat, and your immune system is responding
well.
2) Some species of bacteria are proteolytic and can break down some of the
materials or outer layer of dead tissues lining your mouth and throat,
causing allergic or inflammatory reactions by your immune system.
3) You might be experiencing a local tissue infection from a species of
Psuedomonas in the culture water, such as P. aeruginosa or P. fluorescens,
which can infect wounds or the highly vascularized tissue around your
tonsils and back of your throat. These are some of the same kinds of
bacteria you might also pick up if you cut yourself while working with
plants and dirt in the garden. You might experience the same symptoms as
you described if you ate a couple of dirt clods from the garden.
Klebsiella sp. might be another candidate.
4) Aeromonas hydrophila, which can cause bacterial septicemia in fish, is
another possibility, perhaps more serious, but probably less likely than
the Psuedomonads.
5) Streptococcus iniae can break out in some kinds of intensive fish
culture, which is probably the least likely of those I have mentioned.
There are known cases of S. iniae developing in Tilapia culture systems,
and when folks handled the fish and got cut, or exposed existing abrasions
on their hands to punctures by the dorsal fins and fish slime, they
contracted localized skin infections or worse. I don't know what kind of
recirculation system or fish crowding or fish health you might have but I
am betting that S. iniae is not the problem in a greenwater carp system..
6) Nocardia is another troublesome bacterium, but it is quite rare as far
as I can tell- but it is one tough little bugger- a mycobacterium as I
recall, with a "slimy" cell wall that is not readily acted upon by many
common antibiotics like penicillin- you must treat it with sulfonamide
antibiotics, I think, to get rid of it. I have seen some people working
with severely infected striped bass in salt water systems get little
Nocardia infections on their hands which would not go away for a long time,
because they did not know eliminate the infected fish but kept working with
them, they did not know what it was once they themselves became infected,
and then their doctor did not know what it was. After consulting a fish
pathologist to identify the infections on the fish as Nocardia, then they
took the right antibiotic and it went away. You would probably see your
fish infected with it if you got a dose of Nocardia.
You can gargle with half and half 3% hydrogen peroxide and warm water if
you think it is fairly localized. If you develop a fever, severe
inflammation and/or pustules on the back of your throat go see the doctor.
Oh, another possibility is that your green water may contain certian blue
green algae that can produce irritants from compounds that they exude which
you may be allergic to.
Ted
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Subject: Re: There's something in the Water!
From: KLOTTTRUE
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 19:54:22 EST
Michael,you don't need to suck on the pipe to siphon. All you have to do is
completely submerge it until it is completely full of water, place your thumb
over the end and pull the hose out of the water,hold it below the water level
of the tank and take your thumb off. There you have it ,a Georgia credit card
!
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Subject: RE: Wriggly Wranch vermicomposter.
From: Andrew
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 11:02:37 +1030
I looked on the unit itself, but it just says its made by Reln
Plastics, Australia.
> Could you give me an email address or snail mail one for the Reln
> Wriggly Wranch.
I can get the info for you here in Oz.
Andrew
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Subject: Re: There's something in the Water!
From: MUDDTOO
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 20:34:35 EST
In a message dated 99-03-05 17:02:07 EST, you write:
<< Yesterday whilst trying to siphon water out of a "green" tank with carp in
it, I swallowed about one mouthful of the water. I didn't think much of
it until this morning (now).
I don't feel like I have the flu nor a fever (temp is fine, and my stomach
doesn't hurt) its just my tonsils and all inside of my mouth hurt.
Its more pain then I have ever imagined -- should I see a doctor? Does
anybody know what this is? >>
Michael - it sounds like the carp went down kinda rough, maybe tail first :)
Joel
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Subject: Re: There's something in the Water!
From: "Wendy Nagurny"
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 21:02:46 -0500
Mike,
Look for tiny white spots. Maybe you've got ich!
Wendy
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Subject: Re: There's something in the Water!
From: KLOTTTRUE
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 21:40:52 EST
In a message dated 3/5/99 8:43:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, MUDDTOO
writes:
<< Does
anybody know what this is? >>
>>
It's Australian for beer !
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| Message 28 |
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Subject: Re: There's something in the Water!
From: Michael Strates
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 00:51:41 +1100 (EST)
On Fri, 5 Mar 1999, Robert Kenyon wrote:
RK> Hello, is this email intended to come to me or did it arrive by a fluke?
RK> Please let me know. Robert Kenyon
I carbon copied it to the mailing list so that everybody could be warned.
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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