Aquaponics Digest - Sun 03/07/99




Message   1: Re: NFT Troughs

             from Adriana Gutierrez 

Message   2: Re: Chilling tilapia at harvest

             from "Sam Levy" 

Message   3: Re: Chilling tilapia at harvest

             from KLOTTTRUE

Message   4: Re: The easy Fillet

             from "Lloyd R. Prentice" 

Message   5: Re: Specs

             from jilli and lars 

Message   6: Re: NFT Troughs

             from "Dale Robinson" 

Message   7: Re: Specs

             from "Ted Ground" 

Message   8: 

             from Jon Hays 

Message   9: Fish Processing

             from sbonney@iquest.net

Message  10: Re: The easy Fillet

             from PDOSSJR

Message  11: RE: There's something in the Water!

             from Paul V 

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| Message 1                                                           |

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Subject: Re: NFT Troughs

From:    Adriana Gutierrez 

Date:    Sun, 07 Mar 1999 08:37:39 -0500

Brian, 

I use aluminum roof pans for NFT troughs.  They are 3" deep, 1

foot wide and can be made as long as you want them.  Here in

Florida you can get them from any aluminum supplier, the guys who

do gutters.  Just ask that they be boxed on both ends and be sure

to request the heaviest gauge available.  If you check out

www.aquaticeco.com, they have exactly this in their hydroponic

section but for a much higher price than buying it directly..

Adriana

> Does anyone use NFT troughs in their lettuce production?  If so, do you

> have any links to these products?

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| Message 2                                                           |

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Subject: Re: Chilling tilapia at harvest

From:    "Sam Levy" 

Date:    Sun, 07 Mar 1999 07:54:41 PST

Hi Ken,

I haven't had fresh caught fish in a long time and certainly wont 

dispute your taste preferences.  I also know of cases where farming the 

fish improved the flavor (grey mullet comes to mind--people I've met who 

had wild caught thought it tasted like "kerosene" and the farmed ones 

quite tasty).

I would like to know how you preserve the fillets and will your 

technique work for whole, cleaned fish?

Sam

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| Message 3                                                           |

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Subject: Re: Chilling tilapia at harvest

From:    KLOTTTRUE

Date:    Sun, 7 Mar 1999 11:43:24 EST

Hi Sam,the point I was trying to make is,I wonder If the method of Killing

causes any off flavor,since it does not seem to in  wild fish. Yes my method

for preserving will work on whole fish.It will even stop the days on ice

effect. Just remember air ,heat and light  cause deterioration, and make sure

your freezer temp is at least down to -10% F to 0% If you have a light in your

freezer,take it out . I posted the directions on the list,If they are not

there,let me know and I will send them to you. Also if you have a Flash Freeze

feature,use it,all it does is keep the compressor from cycling on and off,and

will pull the heat out faster,when the bricks are frozen solid,turn off the

Flash freeze,the fuller you keep your freezer the cheaper it is to operate.

Thanks Ken

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| Message 4                                                           |

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Subject: Re: The easy Fillet

From:    "Lloyd R. Prentice" 

Date:    Sun, 07 Mar 1999 12:17:26 -0500

KLOTTTRUE wrote:

> 

> O.K. here we go,bear with me,these directions are for a right handed person,if

> you're a southpaw just reverse them. First thing you need is a flexible fillet

> knife,a six inch Rapala or Bentley 

I used exactly this method to fillet fish throughout the many years that

I was passionately involved in competitive spearfishing off the

California coast. It worked on everything from a 1 lb. blue rock fish to

a 30 lb. ling cod. Cabezones (a type of sculpin) in the 8-10 lb. class

were a bit tricky because of the high head-to-body-mass ratio. But they

were really delicious. With slight modification, Ken's method worked

beautifully on a 42 lb. halibut. It may work on fish even smaller than 1

lb., but I never shot a fish less than 12-inches long -- tried not to

shot anything less than 14-inches. I was fast with a fileting knife, but

not nearly as fast as some of the commercial fisherman I watched on the

piers of Monterey, Bodega Bay, Ft. Bragg, and elsewhere. Using this

method, they could filet a fish faster than I can type this sentence.

And I touchtype pretty fast. 

We used to string fish off our weight belts using a stringer fashioned

so: Start with a 1-inch brass ring. Securely tie one end of a 2 to

2.5-foot length of green woven nylon cord to the ring. Run the other end

of the cord through a hole drilled through the center of a 4-inch length

of 1/4-inch stainless steel rod. The rod is bluntly sharpened at both

ends. Knot the end of the cord so the rod won't slide off. 

We would clip the ring to a snap fastened just to the left of the buckle

on our weight belts, wrap the cord around behind us, and wrap it a time

or two around the lead weight to the immediate right of the buckle.

Lefties would do just the opposite.

We killed a fish as soon as we got hour hands on it by unwrapping the

rod end of the stringer from the weight, running the stainless steel rod

through one eye, scraping along the bony structure at the top of the eye

socket, and out the other eye, pulling the rod all the way through. We'd

pull the fish back along the cord until it was behind us, then rewrap

the stringer to the weight. We wore 3/16-inch foam neoprene wet suits,

so didn't have to worry about sharp spines sticking us in tender places.

As I aged I wondered more about the cruelty of our harvesting and

stringing methods. I concluded the following (perhaps

self-justification: 1) all of the fish we speared were prey to other

fish, seals, and sea lions -- which generally used sharp teeth to

capture and help swallow their prey. Or, they used their own teeth to

capture their own prey. 2) I have every reason to believe that our

stringing technique killed the fish almost instantly. They simply did

not quiver from the moment we inserted the rod. When I first heard about

this method I was deeply squeamish, but was quickly convinced that it

was far more humane than the gill stringing method we'd used previously.

At the time I was diving, the California Department of Fish and Game

biologists were keeping careful track of who was fishing what out of

California waters. The ratio of fish taken by spear to hook was almost

miniscule. Moveover, divers took fish from zones that were generally not

accessable to line fishermen. In spearfishing competitions, in our area,

the minimum size you could take was 14 inches; maximum number of fish

per species was eight. Competitions were scored as a point per pound and

a point per fish. So, to win, you had to be a good athlete and a very

versatile fisherman -- Into the holes around the wash rocks right off

shore for black rock fish; into the kelp beds for blue and olive rock

fish; off to the 20 to 60-foot rockpiles and reefs for bottom-dwelling,

hole-loving ling cod and cabezons; into the 10-foot eel grass for

greenlings and perch.  We would swim and paddle on our paddle boards two

or three miles in a four-hour competition. Regional and national

competitions were five and six hours. Scouting, with much deception and

secrecy, and strategy, which depended upon location and water

conditions, was everything. It wasn't unusual for us to go into a

competition with five-foot surf, two foot swells, and two-feet of

visibility.  On such days you were lucky to bring in one fish after four

hours of very hard diving. Water temperature off the Central/Northern

California coast is often in the '40s F. Competition areas were

typically a mile or two of coast line, out to sea as far as you want to

go. You could only enter or leave the water from the competition staging

areaa staging area -- 100-feet or so of beach. 

On a good day, in a hundred-diver competition among the best

spearfishermen on the coast, the top four or five divers might bring in

30 to 40 pounds each; next four or five somewhere between 10 and 20

pounds; lower fifty percent nothing. Average was about two to three

pounds per diver. When I was training, I never shot more fish than I

could eat or give to appreciative friends and neighbors. All fish taken

in competition were given to much appreciative charitable organizations; 

We never used scuba equipment to spear fish; only snorkle. We fished

anywhere from the surge of wash rocks right off shore out to 70 feet.

I once had a sea otter try to steal fish from my belt stringer. It was

at the end of a very long day. My paddle board was anchored to the top

of rock pinnacle out in the kelp beds off a Carmel beach. The top of the

pinnacle was about 80 feet down. The anchor hung up when I tried to pull

it. So, reluctantly, I hyperventilated deeply and started down to unhook

the anchor. I was just reaching for the anchor when something hit me

hard on the shoulder blade. Obviously startled, I spun head-over-fins,

my mask flooded, and I made my way back up through the kelp to the

surface. It took awhile for my heart to calm down, but I went back down,

unhooked my anchor, and headed in. When I examined my wetsuit, I found

three neatly incised clawmarks about three inches long.  

During the last few years of my California spearfishing career I seldom

speared fish. If a saw nice fish I'd track it with my speargun, enjoy

the way it circled around me, but not pull the trigger. 

Ken's fileting method is indeed as fast and easy as he suggests; but I

don't think I could have described it with anywhere near the clarity and

concision that Ken has. 

Many thanks, Ken, for bringing back the memories.

Lloyd R. Prentice

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| Message 5                                                           |

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Subject: Re: Specs

From:    jilli and lars 

Date:    Sun, 07 Mar 1999 11:07:16 -0800

hey ken -

        good one the other day -  "austrailian for beer"   :-) I read it at

night

and my laugh woke my wife.

        I've always been interested in ancient technology myself. Simple

solutions

to important problems, especially hydraulics. Some of the ancient techniques for

moving and pumping water are just fantastic.

        I'd like to second your notion of using only natural feeds. I think

the US

RDA is a bit abbreviated - I think there's probably lots of other trace

chemicals/nutrients that people need for full nutrition. So keeping the food

chain

as "wide" as possible seems smart and I think your fish will taste better.

But you

know this already as you've eaten lots of wild-caught fish. Recreating the

natural

environment as much as possible just makes sense. I think your fish will be

healthier as well. For example, the other day I read in an aquarium manual how

keeping logs, leaves and other slowly decaying plant matter in the water

releases

various organic acids into the water which strengthens a fish's scales and skin

and helps prevent certain parasites and diseases. It's nice to have your

instincts

somewhat verified.

      In terms of aquaponics being 'ruined' - Its inevitable. People ruin

everything. But that doesn't ruin the technique itself, nor the possiblity of

doing it right. The quality versus quantity issue. Nothing we can due to

stop the

ADM bozos from building super-mega-aquaponic fish farms with the fish stocked

gill-to-gill and eating pelletized miracle gro, but we'll know better, and

we can

teach our kids better. At least some americans are starting to pay more

attention

to quality of food. Maybe this country is finally starting to come of age....

later,

lars

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| Message 6                                                           |

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Subject: Re: NFT Troughs

From:    "Dale Robinson" 

Date:    Sun, 7 Mar 1999 14:05:47 -0600

There are some links in my web site.

The design of your system will make a big difference as to the production

you can get from it.

With lettuce,  You have a choice between beds and rows(NFT troughs).  In a

trough , you usually plant the seeds far enough apart so that they can grow

the plants out to maturity.  With a bed you can sow the seeds in pretty

thick and harvist the young leaves about every 2-3 weeks.

Hope this helps.

Best regards

Dale Robinson

prof-robinson@worldnet.att.net

http://home.att.net/~prof-robinson/page7.html

>Hi Everyone.

>

>Does anyone use NFT troughs in their lettuce production?  If so, do you

>have any links to these products?

>

>Brian

>

>

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| Message 7                                                           |

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Subject: Re: Specs

From:    "Ted Ground" 

Date:    Sun, 7 Mar 1999 15:57:10 -0600

>Nothing we can due to stop the

> ADM bozos from building super-mega-aquaponic fish farms with the fish

stocked

> gill-to-gill and eating pelletized miracle gro, but we'll know better,

and we can

> teach our kids better. At least some americans are starting to pay more

attention

> to quality of food. Maybe this country is finally starting to come of

age....

Maybe I should learn to "turn my hearing aid off" as my Grandma used to

say..but

why would anyone other than E.F. Schumacher or Myopic Monkey Wrench Gang

EcoWarriers want to stop ADM, or anyone else for that matter, from building

aquaponic fish farms? Why not cancel the subscription to Mother Jones

magazine, stop playing the imaginary role of victim, and together let's

start teaching old dogs like ADM some new tricks!  Captains of Industry

Unite!  Hands at the Helm, Charting the Course into the Future!  The old

dogs have already started learning new tricks and, believe me, they could

now teach us mom and pop operations some new tricks.  One Chinese Communist

leader once said "I dont care what color the cat is as long as it catches

the mouse."  Hey that reminds me, did you hear that the Chinese Prime

Minister is in the market for fertilizer?  He's Dung Shop Ping.  Get it?   

I wish I could stock fish "gill-to-gill" up to market size, if that is WHAT

THE FISH COULD DO, like bees or bat colonies DO, but you can't do that and

expect to grow quality Tilapia that way. I suspect ADM knows this, as most

fish farmers do.  Many species of fish in the wild grow and move about in

their 3D environment "gill to gill" as you say.  We call them schools of

fish. As they grow bigger, they spread out just enough to keep from ramming

each other while executing beautiful underwater ballets, but they still

school, using pressure sensory nerves along their lateral lines to maintain

very close optimal distances between each fish. It would be unnatural for

them not to school. Many species of Tilapia start out as fry inside the

mouth of the parent fish- packed in there "gill to gill".  Nature has been

doing this for eons. I suspect Mother Nature never consulted ADM.

And I wish I had some pelletized miracle grow.  If you know where I can get

some, please let me know.  Mine is only made of soybeans, corn, wheat,etc.,

you know, the same basic stuff that ADM feeds their fish, and what

thousands of aquarium hobbyists feed their fish (like the wicked bozo Mr.

Rogers) and what big and small fish farms around the world feed their fish.

Let me see how badly I can misinterpreted your train of thought here with

some absurd philosophical verse:

Big and Successful is Bozo, Wicked and Un-Natural

ADM Aquaponics is Big and Successful

Therefore ADM Aquaponics is Bozo, Wicked and Un-Natural

Mom&Pop Aquaponics is Not Big and Struggling

Not Big and Struggling is Good, Natural, Noble,and True.

Therefore Mom&Pop Aquaponics is Good, Natural, Noble, and True

Mom&Pop and ADM may use similar Aquacultural Practices,

But Big is still Bad and Not Big is still Good.

We will Teach Our Children Well.

We will Teach Our Children Big is Bozo, Wicked and Un-Natural

We will Teach Them Not Big is Good, Natural, Noble, and True. 

Therefore this country will finally start to come of the (New) Age.

Reminds me of the Ray Charles Diety Theorem:

God is Love

Love is Blind

Ray Charles is Blind

Therefore Ray Charles is God.

Let's not shoot the old dog, let's teach him some new tricks!

Ted

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| Message 8                                                           |

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Subject: 

From:    Jon Hays 

Date:    Sun, 07 Mar 1999 16:59:03 -0700

Let me see how badly I can misinterpreted your train of thought here with 

some absurd philosophical verse:

Big and Successful is Bozo, Wicked and Un-Natural 

ADM Aquaponics is Big and Successful 

Therefore ADM Aquaponics is Bozo, Wicked and Un-Natural 

Mom&Pop Aquaponics is Not Big and Struggling 

Not Big and Struggling is Good, Natural, Noble,and True. 

Therefore Mom&Pop Aquaponics is Good, Natural, Noble, and True 

Mom&Pop and ADM may use similar Aquacultural Practices, 

But Big is still Bad and Not Big is still Good. 

We will Teach Our Children Well. 

We will Teach Our Children Big is Bozo, Wicked and Un-Natural 

We will Teach Them Not Big is Good, Natural, Noble, and True. 

Therefore this country will finally start to come of the (New) Age.

Reminds me of the Ray Charles Diety Theorem:

God is Love 

Love is Blind 

Ray Charles is Blind 

Therefore Ray Charles is God.

Ted:  I hate to mention politics on such hollowed net, but I just read  in

the last few days that ADM is the largest contributor to the Clinton's.

John Hays

John Hays

1903 Pebble Hill Rd.

Carlsbad, NM  88220

1-505-887-0102

ICQ#  765699

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| Message 9                                                           |

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Subject: Fish Processing

From:    sbonney@iquest.net

Date:    Sun, 07 Mar 1999 22:32:26 -0500

In order to build a successful fish production and marketing system that

captures the greatest value, processing facilities of appropriate scale

must be developed. Are there any ideas, including references, out there for

small scale processing both on-farm and off?

Steve

Steve Bonney, President

Sustainable Earth

a 501(c)3 not-for-profit dedicated to economic development through

sustainable agriculture

100 Georgton Ct., W. Lafayette IN 47906

tel (765)463-9366; fax (765)497-0164; email sbonney@iquest.net 

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| Message 10                                                          |

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Subject: Re: The easy Fillet

From:    PDOSSJR

Date:    Sun, 7 Mar 1999 22:41:46 EST

I have also used this method of fish cleaning for a long time. It does work

well. If you really want to do some serious fish cleaning substitute an

electric knife for that Rapala.

Paul

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| Message 11                                                          |

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Subject: RE: There's something in the Water!

From:    Paul V 

Date:    Sun, 7 Mar 1999 20:42:39 -0500

> You can gargle with half and half 3%

> hydrogen peroxide and warm water if

> you think it is fairly localized.

How effective would gargling and swishing 

with a couple shots of vodka be?

Would these disinfecting methods be most 

effective right after infection?

Paul

S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775  417-256-5124

Web page  http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/



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