Aquaponics Digest - Thu 03/25/99
Message 1: Re: help
from khale@ballistic.com
Message 2: Re: Bamboo in cool climes
from Jose Pelleya
Message 3: Bamboo congress
from Jose Pelleya
Message 4: Bamboo uses
from Jose Pelleya
Message 5: Re: Bamboo in cool climes
from Jose Pelleya
Message 6: Re: help
from james.rakocy@uvi.edu (James Rakocy, Ph.D.)
Message 7: Re: Bamboo congress
from "TGTX"
Message 8: Aquaponics Course Announcement
from james.rakocy@uvi.edu (James Rakocy, Ph.D.)
Message 9: Re: help
from William Evans
Message 10: Genetically Engineered Plant Question.
from "TGTX"
Message 11: Re: Aquaponics Course Announcement
from Adriana Gutierrez
Message 12: Re: Genetically Engineered Plant Question.
from Adriana Gutierrez
Message 13: Re: Genetically Engineered Plant Question.
from doelle
Message 14: Re: Aquaponics Course Announcement
from james.rakocy@uvi.edu (James Rakocy, Ph.D.)
Message 15: Re: Genetically Engineered Plant Question.
from "TGTX"
Message 16: Re: Genetically Engineered Plant Question.
from KLOTTTRUE
Message 17: Re: Aquaponics Start - up
from KLOTTTRUE
Message 18: RE: Aquaponics Start - up
from "Ronald W. Brooks"
Message 19: Re: Genetically Engineered Plant Question. Homologous Gene
Insertion Vectors
from "KevinLReed"
Message 20: Bamboo url was great!
from "KevinLReed"
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| Message 1 |
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Subject: Re: help
From: khale@ballistic.com
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 05:11:40 -0600
heat--------------------------------------------------------------------At
07:32 PM 3/24/99 -0800, you wrote:
>I have a small nft system that I have been experimenting with by growing
>tomatoes, basil, and cilantro.
>
>I wrote the other day because I came home and the cilantro had just flopped
>over. Based on the suggestions, I figured I would try to separate the
>cilantro next time.
>
>Now, I've come home and all but one of the tomato plants have also flopped
>over. Has anyone ever experienced this? Any ideas what this could be?
>
>
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Subject: Re: Bamboo in cool climes
From: Jose Pelleya
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 05:58:50 -0700
Here's a couple of URL's of links pages that will take you to away to the
wonderful world of bamboo
Enjoy,
Jose
At 07:07 AM 3/24/99 -0600, you wrote:
>At 06:05 AM 3/24/99 -0700, Jose wrote:
>>
>>If you want some bamboo URLs, I'll hunt them up.
>
>Jose, please post these to the list if you have them. I thought I had saved
>a file for bamboo URLs, but cannot locate it now.
>
>Thanks
>
>Paula
>S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
>Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
>
>
Thought for the day:
Why is the time of day with the slowest traffic called rush hour?
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Subject: Bamboo congress
From: Jose Pelleya
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 06:38:34 -0700
Ted:
Try contacting FUNBAMBOO, their web page is at:
http://www.funbambu.or.cr/
Jose
At 08:55 AM 3/24/99 -0600, you wrote:
>Jose,
>
>Thanks for your great post on bamboo.
>How fortunate that you were able to attend the Bamboo Congress and Workshop
>Sounds like it was really something. Do you think there is a way we can
>find out how to get a copy of the Proceedings? I really like this carbon
>fixing aspect as well..
Thought for the day:
Why is the time of day with the slowest traffic called rush hour?
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Subject: Bamboo uses
From: Jose Pelleya
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 06:40:17 -0700
I lived in Hong Kong and I saw what you mean, it's used for scaffolding all
over, just tied together.
Jose
At 08:11 AM 3/24/99 -0700, you wrote:
>I grew up in Mex. and I remember bamboo with admiration. I also saw it used
>as the scaffolding for the Bank of Hong Kong building in Hong Kong. Many
>dozens of stories!!
>I would love the Url's!
>I will pass on what I hear.
Thought for the day:
Why is the time of day with the slowest traffic called rush hour?
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Subject: Re: Bamboo in cool climes
From: Jose Pelleya
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 06:34:02 -0700
If you want to search out a wonderful, photo-filled book on bamboo:
Tropical Bamboo
Marcelo Villegas
Villegas Editores
Colmbia
Published in the US by
Rizzoli International Publications, Inc.
ISBN 958-9393-00-4
Simply fantastic coffee table size book.
Jose
At 08:11 AM 3/24/99 -0700, you wrote:
>I grew up in Mex. and I remember bamboo with admiration. I also saw it used
>as the scaffolding for the Bank of Hong Kong building in Hong Kong. Many
>dozens of stories!!
>I would love the Url's!
>I will pass on what I hear.
>ThanksVPage
Thought for the day:
Why is the time of day with the slowest traffic called rush hour?
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Subject: Re: help
From: james.rakocy@uvi.edu (James Rakocy, Ph.D.)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 09:33:57 -0400 (AST)
Sounds like a root rot problem. Perhaps there's too much organic matter in
the troughs and anaerobic zones are forming. Settle or filter out solids
before water reaches troughs. I am assuming this is an aquaponic system.
Maybe your stock water supply needs to be aerated more vigorously. If water
temperature is above 80 degrees F, it could be a root fungal disease,
Pythium. Keep water temp. at 75 F. Jim R.
>I have a small nft system that I have been experimenting with by growing
>tomatoes, basil, and cilantro.
>
>I wrote the other day because I came home and the cilantro had just flopped
>over. Based on the suggestions, I figured I would try to separate the
>cilantro next time.
>
>Now, I've come home and all but one of the tomato plants have also flopped
>over. Has anyone ever experienced this? Any ideas what this could be?
>
>
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Subject: Re: Bamboo congress
From: "TGTX"
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 08:31:59 -0600
Jose,
Thanks for those URLs on bamboo. They are now on my favorites list.
Ted.
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Subject: Aquaponics Course Announcement
From: james.rakocy@uvi.edu (James Rakocy, Ph.D.)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 10:50:14 -0400 (AST)
Excuse me for breaking the 15th of the month advertizing protocol, but
in response to all the interest in aquponics and questions that are posed
in this excellent news group, we at the University of the Virgin Islands
have decided to offer a short course on aquaponics and tilapia aquaculture this
summer. The announcement is also on the WWW at the following address
http://rps.uvi.edu/AES/Aquaculture/UVIShortCourse.html We now have a web page.
It's a first attempt will improve over time with more information and better
graphics. Our address is: http://rps.uvi.edu/AES/aes_home.html It's nice
to be
back. Jim R.
UNIVERSITY OF THE VIRGIN ISLANDS
AQUAPONICS AND TILAPIA AQUACULTURE SHORT COURSE
July 11-17, 1999
Program
A 7-day course that will provide in-depth knowledge of the principles
and practical application of the aquaponic and greenwater tank culture
systems that have been developed at the University of the Virgin
Islands. Participants will be introduced to a variety of system designs
using hydroponic plant culture (aquaponics), suspended growth processes
(greenwater tank culture), or rotating biological contactors and
settling or filtering of solids for maintaining water quality. Fish
production instruction will be conducted using both the Nile tilapia
(Oreochromis niloticus) as well as the Florida Red tilapia. Hydroponic
plant production will focus on lettuce, but will also cover many other
vegetables as well as culinary and medicinal herbs and ornamental
flowers.
Topics
Aquaponic system
System design and management
Components
Construction techniques
Operation
Water quality
Fish production
Stocking rates
Growth and survival rates
Feed and feeding methods
Harvesting
Processing
Plant production
Seedling production
Transplanting
Disease and insect control
Harvesting and packaging
Greenwater tank system
Fish production
Stocking/Growout
Water quality management
Feed and feeding methods
Sludge use for field crops
Economics
Capital budgeting
Operations plan
Marketing
Fingerling production
Brood stock management
Breeding
Fry sex reversal
Fingerling rearing
Instruction
Each day will include a half-day of classroom lecture and a half-day of
hands-on field work. Participants will learn the technology through
presentation of the theory and practical skill development. Each
student will be given a notebook of reference materials. Water quality
labs will cover the standard methods of analysis and the use of water
quality test kits. Field work will include fish handling, vegetable
production and system operation.
Facilities
UVI is located in the heart of beautiful St. Croix. The Aquaculture
Program operates 12 research-scale systems (6 aquaponic and 6
greenwater) as well as a commercial-scale aquaponic system, a greenwater
demonstration system with vegetable garden, a fry sex-reversal system, a
recirculating system for fingerling rearing and a purge system. The
program produces about 20,000 lbs. of tilapia annually and more than
1,000 cases of vegetables.
Cost
This course will cost $985. The fee covers course materials, dorm room
on campus for 8 nights (July 10-18), graduation banquet and a sailing
trip to Buck Island National Park for a day of snorkeling amid
spectacular coral reefs. Meals cost $3-6 each at the school cafeteria.
Airfare to St. Croix, USVI is not included in the registration fee and
should be arranged separately by each individual.
Registration
Register by contacting Dr. James Rakocy at the address below. Please
provide name, address, telephone and fax numbers, e-mail address and a
brief description of background and experience with tilapia production
and/or hydroponics.
Enrollment is limited. A $300 deposit, payable to the University of the
Virgin Islands, is necessary by June 15, 1999 to reserve your place in
this course. The balance will be due the first day of class.
Instructional Staff
Dr. James Rakocy System design/production
Donald Bailey Business planning/operations/aquaponics
John Martin Greenwater systems/extension
R. Charlie Shultz Water quality/pest management/vegetable production
For more information and to register contact Dr. James Rakocy, RR 2, Box
10,000, Kingshill, VI 00850, Phone: 340-692-4020, E-mail:
jrakocy@uvi.edu
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Subject: Re: help
From: William Evans
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 07:14:52 -0800
Lack of copper in corn produces weak stalks, could be similar problem
or,,,, lack of enuf light could also make the plants leggy and stretch
out and flop over as u describe.
billevans
Jennifer Grunest wrote:
>
> I have a small nft system that I have been experimenting with by growing
> tomatoes, basil, and cilantro.
>
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Subject: Genetically Engineered Plant Question.
From: "TGTX"
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 12:03:24 -0600
There has been much ado on this list about genetic engineering pros and
cons.
And some connections of that topic to organic agricultural practices.
It seems the major objections to genetically engineered or
biotechnologically modified organisms is that genes from a fish will be
spliced into a strawberry for example, and that sort of thing runs a great
risk of subsequently escaping to the larger gene pool of all strawberries
in the universe. I guess there are other objections, but this seems to be
the gist of the argument against genetic engineering plants and animals.
The idea of a plant or animal being "synthetic" is strongly objected to,
but I have yet to see a well developed rationale which adequately explains
why any and all things synthetic are automatically and forever to be placed
in the category of undesirable or dangerous.
I have a question and an illustration that I hope will help convey what I
am wondering about. What if a plant contains many genes that are desirable
but only one that is undesirable, and somehow you find that you can cut
that undesirable gene out, leaving the ones you want remaining in the plant
genome?
For example. Lippia dulcis, or the Aztec Sweet Herb contains the intensely
sweet compound hernandulcin which is 1000 times sweeter than sugar, without
the caloric content (kind of like the plant Stevia rebaudiana which you may
have heard of). However, L. dulcis also contains a very high camphor
content, which makes the raw or bulk plant product unsuitable for use as a
sugar substitute without going through some elaborate extraction and
isolation chemistry processes...
Suppose a plant genetist, such as our distinguished collegue, Kevin Reed,
were able to extract just the gene for camphor production out of the genome
of L. dulcis. This would obviously be a desirable acheivement - to find
sugar substitutes and help people control their caloric intake perhaps.
What, if any, kind of objections could be raised against growing such a
modified plant in an organic setting?
Ted
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Subject: Re: Aquaponics Course Announcement
From: Adriana Gutierrez
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:25:26 -0500
James Rakocy, Ph.D. wrote:
>
> Excuse me for breaking the 15th of the month advertizing protocol, but
> in response to all the interest in aquponics and questions that are posed
> in this excellent news group, we at the University of the Virgin Islands
> have decided to offer a short course on aquaponics and tilapia aquaculture
this
> summer.
It sounds fabulous Jim! Where was this a year ago when I needed
it? Good luck with the course.
Adriana
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Subject: Re: Genetically Engineered Plant Question.
From: Adriana Gutierrez
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:28:01 -0500
I agree with you on this Ted, just because it's new and different
doesn't make it bad.
> Suppose a plant genetist, such as our distinguished collegue, Kevin Reed,
> were able to extract just the gene for camphor production out of the genome
> of L. dulcis. This would obviously be a desirable acheivement - to find
> sugar substitutes and help people control their caloric intake perhaps.
Kevin, if you want a sample of this herb I can send you one.
Adriana
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Subject: Re: Genetically Engineered Plant Question.
From: doelle
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 08:14:04 +1000
Ted,
I see the argument different from you. The objections to GMO are in my
opinion as follows:
1. we do not know the side-effects . As was shown in the case of soybean,
there was a side-effect. The scientists or manufacturers bring it on the market
a) without thorough testing
b) without notifying the people that this is a modified plant.
2. we often do not know the reason why and for what purpose except money do
we genetically modify plants or animals ?
In medicine is a completely different story. The GMO is to save lifes and
also the organism does not come in contact with living people or animals.
3. Has the human and animal immune, digestive etc systems the capability to
absorb or handle GMO material. NO study has been done in this direction.
4. all scare or objections could easily be handled by letting the people
know and decide whether or not they like to eat the engineered plant
material or food. LABEL IT ?
WHY IS THERE SUCH AN OPPOSITION FROM THE GMO SCIENTISTS TO LABEL THEIR
PRODUCTS ????
Surely we are not so dumb that we cannot choose. If we can choose to elect
our politicians, why can I not choose what I want to eat ???
I think these are the real problems.
Horst
At 12:03 PM 25/03/99 -0600, you wrote:
>There has been much ado on this list about genetic engineering pros and
>cons.
>And some connections of that topic to organic agricultural practices.
>
>It seems the major objections to genetically engineered or
>biotechnologically modified organisms is that genes from a fish will be
>spliced into a strawberry for example, and that sort of thing runs a great
>risk of subsequently escaping to the larger gene pool of all strawberries
>in the universe. I guess there are other objections, but this seems to be
>the gist of the argument against genetic engineering plants and animals.
>The idea of a plant or animal being "synthetic" is strongly objected to,
>but I have yet to see a well developed rationale which adequately explains
>why any and all things synthetic are automatically and forever to be placed
>in the category of undesirable or dangerous.
>
>I have a question and an illustration that I hope will help convey what I
>am wondering about. What if a plant contains many genes that are desirable
>but only one that is undesirable, and somehow you find that you can cut
>that undesirable gene out, leaving the ones you want remaining in the plant
>genome?
>
>For example. Lippia dulcis, or the Aztec Sweet Herb contains the intensely
>sweet compound hernandulcin which is 1000 times sweeter than sugar, without
>the caloric content (kind of like the plant Stevia rebaudiana which you may
>have heard of). However, L. dulcis also contains a very high camphor
>content, which makes the raw or bulk plant product unsuitable for use as a
>sugar substitute without going through some elaborate extraction and
>isolation chemistry processes...
>
>Suppose a plant genetist, such as our distinguished collegue, Kevin Reed,
>were able to extract just the gene for camphor production out of the genome
>of L. dulcis. This would obviously be a desirable acheivement - to find
>sugar substitutes and help people control their caloric intake perhaps.
>
>What, if any, kind of objections could be raised against growing such a
>modified plant in an organic setting?
>
>Ted
>
>
>
Horst W.Doelle, D.Sc., D.Sc. [h.c.]
Chairman, IOBB
Director, MIRCEN-Biotechnology
FAX: +617-38783230
Email: doelle@ozemail.com.au
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Subject: Re: Aquaponics Course Announcement
From: james.rakocy@uvi.edu (James Rakocy, Ph.D.)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 18:20:54 -0400 (AST)
Adriana,
People who already have systems and are advanced should benefit too, because
we will expose them to new techniques in many of the course topics, and we
will delineate the options available for large-scale commercial expansion.
For example, Don Bailey will describe the steps that go into preparing an
aquaponic business plan while Charlie Shultz will demonstrate biological
pest control. And if you don't have fish yet in your system, there's a lot
to learn about the interface.
Jim
>James Rakocy, Ph.D. wrote:
>>
>> Excuse me for breaking the 15th of the month advertizing protocol, but
>> in response to all the interest in aquponics and questions that are posed
>> in this excellent news group, we at the University of the Virgin Islands
>> have decided to offer a short course on aquaponics and tilapia
aquaculture this
>> summer.
>
>It sounds fabulous Jim! Where was this a year ago when I needed
>it? Good luck with the course.
>
>Adriana
>
>
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Subject: Re: Genetically Engineered Plant Question.
From: "TGTX"
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 19:24:24 -0600
Horst,
Du schreibt:
> Ted,
> I see the argument different from you.
I really dont know that you and I see it diffferently, Horst, since, as
usual, you did not attempt to answer the specific question as I posed it.
I think Genetic Engineering might be used for good, bad, or
indifferent....just like any other technology....
I have a real problem with genetic engineering used to implant pathogenic
genes such as veritoxin or botulin or what have you, into environmentally
robust microorganisms that could be used to wipe out entire human
populations...biological warfare, in other words...that is why we must
oppose the efforts of SoDamn Insane in Iraq......
But most of the GE of which I am aware of does not seek to acheive those
kinds of ends. Everything from agriculture to waste disposal technology can
have its pros and cons, regardless of the GE aspects.
For example, if a civil engineer designs a bridge for a major highway going
over a river, and that bridge eventually fails, killing a thousand people,
it seems to me that we can all recognize the fact that the bridge design
was bad, and that the designing civil engineer was not considering all the
options, or that she was incompetent, or she might have been subject to
greed or egotism...but I can't see anything in that hypothetical situation
that would persuade me that the science and discipline of civil engineering
itself is a bad thing
My point was VERY CLEAR...How can you have side effects as you suggest,
when a single genetic trait has been removed from a plant? I am not saying
you cannot have side effects, I just am asking what is the basis for the
arguement...I am asking for open speculation here that addresses the
specific question.
How can you have digestive, immunological, ecological, sociological,
geopolitical, yada, yada, yada, yada,... difficulties when the trait in
question is absent? In the situation that I proposed, the gene has been
selectively removed, rather than added, to the genome.
Du schreibt:
> In medicine is a completely different story. The GMO is to save lifes and
also the >organism does not come in contact with living people or animals.
OK., Horst I hear you, but could you please explain to us what you mean by
that? Could you please explain to us in great detail how, in the case of
medicine, the GMO organism or its products does not come into contact with
living people or animals, whereas in the case of agriculture, these things
always come into contact with living people or animals? I have read this
report from you many times and I am willing to learn what you mean by
that...Please explain.
Look, this was just a very specific, speculative question folks, so please,
if you have specific comments, let 'er rip...I am only thinking out loud
here....
Ted
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Subject: Re: Genetically Engineered Plant Question.
From: KLOTTTRUE
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 22:06:24 EST
In a message dated 3/25/99 5:10:03 PM Eastern Standard Time,
doelle@ozemail.com.au writes:
<< In medicine is a completely different story. The GMO is to save lifes and
also the organism does not come in contact with living people or animals.
>>
Greetings Horst,Please explain how genetic engineering could be used in
medicine,and not come into contact with people or animals?I,m a little
confused here! Could the trick be in the (Living) part of the phrase?
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Subject: Re: Aquaponics Start - up
From: KLOTTTRUE
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 22:21:08 EST
Hello,Help I've got my system started,plants in,started with some minnows and
Crappie,just to get things going,water temp 78,plants have quadrupled in size
in five days,I'm not sure what is going on but I put five Large pregnant
Crappie,minnows,and one white bass in the tank.The minnows and white bass are
doing fine,but all the crappie died,all of their fins turned clear,and then
the skin just disappeared,leaving nothing but the fin bones! Ammonia is 0 PH
7.4 water is crystal clear. Anyone have any ideas on this problem? Thanks Ken
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Subject: RE: Aquaponics Start - up
From: "Ronald W. Brooks"
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 23:12:27 -0500
Not sure without seeing the fish . Someone else might know for sure.
But I wanted to point out that with water temps at 78 you are at the upper
limit on water temps for crappie . My books say 55 - 78 high stress and
death over 78 and no growth under 55
Ron
The One Who Walks Two Paths
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Subject: Re: Genetically Engineered Plant Question. Homologous Gene
Insertion Vectors
From: "KevinLReed"
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 21:36:50 -0800
-----Original Message-----
From: Adriana Gutierrez
To: aquaponics@townsqr.com
Date: Thursday, March 25, 1999 1:27 PM
Subject: Re: Genetically Engineered Plant Question.
>> Suppose a plant genetist, >> were able to extract just the gene for =
camphor production out of the genome of L. dulcis. =20
A natural process called homologous gene insertion can be used to remove =
the
undesirable gene. Dr. Mario Capecchi ( Capecchi Labs) at the U. of Utah =
has been using this process in mice for years with positive and negative =
selection sequences added to his insertion or deletion vectors. Adding =
genes seems to work best by ballistic insertion using nanometer size =
gold pellets coated with DNA ( kind of an air pop gun aiming the pellets =
at a cell culture). DNA sequences of 25,000 nucleic acid base pairs =
seem to be the maxium size for reliable insertion.=20
To remove genes I have proposed that a polymer third strand added to DNA =
could also be inserted by homologous gene insertion but because DNA =
polymerase won't "fit" around the DNA to replicate the sequence when =
cell mitosis occurs the undesirable gene would be deleted. So if the =
sequence for champor is known it can be selectively deleted. =
Alternately, a stop codon thells protein to stop being made could be =
inserted as a homologous vector and the plant would replace the old =
camphor gene with the new disarmed camphor gene that would not be =
capable of making the camphor protein in plants grown from the =
transformed cell.
Capecchi Labs would be better equipped to do homologous vector =
insertion/deletion that I would but I would love to have some samples of =
the herb. I would like to see in which part of the plant the the =
hernandulcin acummulates. I have never heard of this plant ( L. dulcis) =
and it seems amazing to be that much sweeter than glucose. If the added =
sweetness is due to acumulation in storage sink tissues in the plant =
stem rather than in leaf tissue the promoter for the hernandulcin gene =
might be used to add sweetness to more than one variety of other plant =
... sugar cane or fruit for example.
Sounds like this would be a fun protein to sequence to see what makes it =
tick. I can check to see if any sequencing of hernandulcin has been done =
through the NIH Gene Bank and if anyone has information on any papers =
about hernadulcin that would help.
Waycool thinking you guys .... keep it up.
>Kevin, if you want a sample of this herb I can send you one.
>
>Adriana
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Subject: Bamboo url was great!
From: "KevinLReed"
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 21:51:53 -0800
Thanks!
I have been trying to get some good giant bamboo to grow for several years
and I am ordering some from them. ... but I am also trying to get some of
the
varieties that grow about 35 meters high and 33 centimeters in diameter.
Almost had some from China but they shut down bringing Chinese Bamboo
into California for now because of bug problems. I have been checking in Oz
to see if they might have some of the extra large timber Bamboos for sale
down under.
I have been told when the new culms are growing it is fun to mark your
height on a culm
before you start a card game then see how much it grew while you played.
Growing
your own plumbing and build materials sounds like lots of fun too.
Kevin
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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