Aquaponics Digest - Sun 04/04/99
Message 1: Re: Fight Gas Prices
from doelle
Message 2: Re: Fire Crackers
from KLOTTTRUE
Message 3: Re: Hybrid bream and aquaponics
from "brett deiser"
Message 4: Re: Hybrid bream and aquaponics
from Gordon Watkins
Message 5: Re: Hybrid bream and aquaponics
from JobieEagan@webtv.net
Message 6: Re: Hybrid bream and aquaponics
from KLOTTTRUE
Message 7: Re: Hybrid bream and aquaponics
from "TGTX"
Message 8: Re: Hybrid bream and aquaponics
from "Uwe Bruenjes"
Message 9: Re: Hybrid bream and aquaponics
from KLOTTTRUE
Message 10: Re: Hybrid bream and aquaponics
from KLOTTTRUE
Message 11: news about GE
from "Uwe Bruenjes"
Message 12: Genetic Engineering Update
from Dave Miller
Message 13: Re: Hybrid bream and aquaponics
from "Uwe Bruenjes"
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| Message 1 |
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Subject: Re: Fight Gas Prices
From: doelle
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 20:30:46 +1000
Ken,
I think it is Ethanol, which you produce in billions of litres from corn in USA.
Horst
At 04:00 PM 02/04/99 EST, you wrote:
>In a message dated 4/2/99 9:49:49 AM Eastern Standard Time,
>marc@dimensional.com writes:
>
><<<< How about farm products based alcohol for fuel?
> >>
>Hi Marc, Isn't that what Methanol is? Ken
>
>
Horst W.Doelle, D.Sc., D.Sc. [h.c.]
Chairman, IOBB
Director, MIRCEN-Biotechnology
FAX: +617-38783230
Email: doelle@ozemail.com.au
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Subject: Re: Fire Crackers
From: KLOTTTRUE
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 09:00:22 EDT
In a message dated 4/3/99 6:08:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
wnagurny@sunlink.net writes:
<< I just thought of something. A number of years ago, I was using my MIL's
oven. I turned it on to warm up. In a few minutes, there was smoke pouring
out of the vent. She was using her oven to store crackers. I grabbed some
mitts (fortunately she also stored her cookie sheets in the oven) and
carried a flaming box of oyster crackers out of the house on a cookie sheet.
That box burned for over twenty minutes. Flour fires were also a problem in
grain mills.
Has anybody ever investigated using a wheat flour based fuel?
>>
Hey Wendy, What were the results of your experiment? Which generated the most
heat? Your MIL,or the Cracker Fire? Thanks from the Lighter Side
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Subject: Re: Hybrid bream and aquaponics
From: "brett deiser"
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 09:37:52 PDT
>> They should make a very good drop-in replacement for Tilapia in
>>aquaponic systems, and don't suffer from some of the legal
>>restrictions,overseas competition, and consumer recognizability
>>questions Tilapia present in some areas of the US.
>>Jim
>
>
>Would they? I would think the temperature requirements would be
>different for tilapia and a bluegill/sunfish cross since tilapia are
>tropical and the others are temperate.
>
I think the temperature requirements would be easier to meet
in most of the U.S.. Especially in the winter.
Keep your nose to the grindstone, Your eye on the ball, and Your
ear to the ground, and try to work in that position!!
Brett:-}
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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Subject: Re: Hybrid bream and aquaponics
From: Gordon Watkins
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 11:43:27 -0500
If you raise the hybrid strains, predator species are probably not
necessary. The need for predators generally relates to the precocious nature
of non-hybrid bream and their tendency to overpopulate ponds with many
stunted offspring which will eventually eliminate other fish species due to
egg and fry predation. The hybrids are predominantly male and so
reproduction is severely limited. When raising
non-hybrid strains in ponds, bass (and to some extent catfish) are stocked
in appropriate numbers to help create and maintain a balanced and stable
fish population.
If you are considering non-hybrid bream for an aquaponic system, I think
Oscars (astronautus ocellatus) would be a better choice for population
control, assuming the water temps are above 70F., but the hybrid strains are
so much more productive that, if they are available to you, I see no
compelling reason to use non-hybrids.
Regarding purging, any species raised on artificial feeds will benefit
from a purging period prior to harvest. However, in my experience, bream
will show stress at salt levels above 3 ppm and die at levels above 6 ppm,
so I would not purge them in salt water.
Gordon
Uwe Bruenjes wrote:
> Hi Ken,
>
> it's almost time to eat, and you tell me about good-tasting fish!
Well, I just looked up the Spanish translation for "bream", and this fish
(besugo) also here has a reputation for being very tasty. - Some time ago,
somebody said that tilapia improves it's taste when you leave it without
food in salt water for about 2-3 days. Do you think that still so bream is
better? Just for a comparison.
>
> >From what Jim said so far, it looks like bream grow very fast; now what
about depredators? If I understood correctly, it's always good to have a few
of them to get rid of too weak, ill or otherwise inferior individuals. Which
(preferrably tasty) species would you recommend to feed on those bream?
>
> (Hurrying to the dinner table!)
>
> Uwe
> ----------
>
>
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Subject: Re: Hybrid bream and aquaponics
From: JobieEagan@webtv.net
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 13:11:02 -0400 (EDT)
Now I'm going to dare ask what might be a really silly question. I've
fished plenty, but can't say I've ever noticed there was a difference
between males and females. How can you know which is which? Trudy
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Subject: Re: Hybrid bream and aquaponics
From: KLOTTTRUE
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 13:52:50 EDT
In a message dated 4/4/99 1:11:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
JobieEagan@webtv.net writes:
<< Now I'm going to dare ask what might be a really silly question. I've
fished plenty, but can't say I've ever noticed there was a difference
between males and females. How can you know which is which? Trudy
>>
Males usually have a beer gut and wear their pants lower,females have the
chair and the umbrella! Seriously though,I'll leave that question to someone
who knows. nek
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Subject: Re: Hybrid bream and aquaponics
From: "TGTX"
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 17:22:02 -0500
Trudy wrote:
> Now I'm going to dare ask what might be a really silly question. I've
> fished plenty, but can't say I've ever noticed there was a difference
> between males and females. How can you know which is which? Trudy
Howdy Trudy!
Howdy Bream Fans!
The following information is from a book entitled " Freshwater Fishes of
Texas".
It might "fill you up to the brim" with interesting Bream factoids:
The Bluegill Sunfish- Lepomis macrochirus- is probably the better known
species of what a lot of folks call "bream" and sometimes "perch" here in
the southern U.S. The adult bluegill is oval in shape, with an almost
round outline with a flat, compressed body. Its most distinguishing
characteristics are a dark spot at the base of the dorsal fin, vertical
bars on the sides and a small mouth. Colors vary widely, but the throat is
often yellowish or even rust-colored. Sides may be green with some
"lavender", brown, copper, or orange. The male bluegill is brightly marked
in spawning season- brighter reddish orange bands and brighter reddish
orange under the operculum-gill area, while the female is duller in color
and appears "rounder" with a load of eggs. The young feed on microscopic
plants and animals, and later in life, small insects. Insects are the
principal food of adult bluegills.
In Texas, bluegills may reach a size of 4 to 6 inches the 1st year- this is
in the "wild". Some reservoirs in Texas, such as Toledo Bend, consistently
produce bluegill at a pound or more, but the average "catch" size is 4 to 6
ounces, and 3/4 of a pound is considered large. Bluegills spawn over an
extended period of time, beginning when water temperatures reach 70 degrees
F and continuing until cool weather in the fall. This lengthy season is
often responsible for bluegill overpopulation in smaller bodies of water
(that and the inadequate predation pressure mentioned earlier). Males fan
nests in shallow water, with 50 or more nests crowded into a suitable area.
(These colonies are often called "bream beds.") After the young hatch and
leave the nest, the male may take another mate immediately.
The Longear Sunfish- Lepomis megalotis- is otherwise known as the Cherry
bream. This is probably the most colorful of Texas' sunfish. The male is
a brilliant orange, or, in some cases, scarlet. The relatively long
opercle flap or "ear" is always trimmed with white, making creek bank
identification easy. The head and fins usually carry turquoise
markings...Hmm...no I wont go there. This species is small, seldom
exceeding 5 to 6 inches in length. Their rate of growth is very slow,
probably taking 3 years to reach 5 to 6 inches.
The Green Sunfish- Lepomis cyanellus- is also sometimes (locally) called
the goggle-eye, rock bass, and branch perch. It is most easily identified
by its large mouth, bass-shaped body and the orange color bordering the
dorsal, anal, and tail fins. This sunfish is dark green above, shading to
lighter green on the sides, and yellowish below. There are faint vertical
bars on the sides. Some scales are tipped with turquoise.....Hmm....giving
the appearance of rows. Young green sunfish has more pale coloration than
the adults. Adults nest in colonies in shallow water in late spring and
through the summer. Males aggressively defend their nests. The green
sunfish is very prolific and is often guilty of overcrowding small lakes.
Adults feed on insects and small fish. The average catch size is 4 to 8
ounces.
The Yellowbelly Sunfish - Lepomis auritus, is also sometimes called
(locally) the longear bream and the redbreasted bream. Although this
sunfish does possess a yellow belly (sometimes orange or a rusty color) it
might have been better named the "longear". Its opercle fflap or "ear" is
considerably longer than the opercle flap of the longear sunfish! In
adults, the ear often reaches a length of 1 inch or more; it is narrow and
usually not wider than the eye. The lower margin of the flap is usually
pale. The yellowbelly is one of Texas' larger sunfish, occasionally
attaining weights of 1 pound. Adults feed on insects, snails, crayfish,
and small fish. Female yellowbelly sunfish is bright in spawning colors.
The male is even more colorful, or "gaudier" at spawning time, but
afterwards closely resembles the female in color.
The Redear Sunfish- Lepomis microlophus- is sometimes also ( locally
)called the Shellcracker, the Georgia bream, and the Cherry Gill. The
color of the redear is dark olive above, yellow to green on the sides and
shading almost to white on the belly. The body is more elongate than the
bluegill. Its most distinguishing characteristic is the red edge on the
opercle flap (ear) of the male, and the orange "ear" of the female. Colors
of the breeding male are intense, showy, but the colors will fade soon
after the redear is caught. Redears are more bottom fish than bluegills.
They generally spawn in deeper water and probably do not have the prolonged
spawning season of most other sunfish. They congregate in "beds" for
spawning. Average catch size is around eight ounces although 1 pound
specimens are not unusual in some lakes.
The Green-Redear Hybrid Sunfish is also called the Hybrid Bream. Young
specimens are usually pale. Muddy waters cause less distinct overall
markings. The Green-Redear hybrid sunfish is the offspring of a male green
sunfish and a female readear sunfish. The hybrid has the large mouth and
orange-fringed fins of the father but carries the red ear tab of the
mother. No here we go with cross-species gene swapping again, folks....It
demonstrates remarkable growth and has reached weights of over 2
pounds...Ah..Hybrid Vigor...You gotta love it! Rate of growth is very
fast, and they feed on insects, crustaceans and small fish. The book says
it should not be stocked in waters where other sunfish are found. It is
considered to be an excellent eating fish.
There you have it Bream Fans.
Hope this was helpful.
Shalom, ya'll.
Ted.
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Subject: Re: Hybrid bream and aquaponics
From: "Uwe Bruenjes"
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 99 17:31:47 PDT
Hi guys,
thanks for all the info. Now, which particular hybrid would you recommend=
for north Mexico (quite similar to the El Paso area; slightly hotter)? =
Should I buy or breed them? Sounds like something easy to breed and raise=
them.
Uwe
P.S. Ken, what did you have for dinner, besides the food? Your reply soun=
ded a little... say, funny...
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| Message 9 |
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Subject: Re: Hybrid bream and aquaponics
From: KLOTTTRUE
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 22:08:42 EDT
In a message dated 4/4/99 8:05:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
uweb@megalink.net.mx writes:
<< guys,
thanks for all the info. Now, which particular hybrid would you recommend
for north Mexico (quite similar to the El Paso area; slightly hotter)? Should
I buy or breed them? Sounds like something easy to breed and raise them.
Uwe >>
Uwe,sounds like Jim's or Ted's Hybrid choices would work,it gets hot in MS
also,the results Jim has had,sound like they would be hard to beat.
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| Message 10 |
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Subject: Re: Hybrid bream and aquaponics
From: KLOTTTRUE
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 22:12:25 EDT
In a message dated 4/4/99 8:05:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
uweb@megalink.net.mx writes:
<< . Ken, what did you have for dinner, besides the food? Your reply sounded
a little... say, funny... >>
Can't blame that on food,drink, or drugs my friend, it was a birth defect!
Ken
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| Message 11 |
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Subject: news about GE
From: "Uwe Bruenjes"
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 99 20:09:23 PDT
Hi Folks,
just found this in the "Jan van Impe Intelligence Briefings":
=A0=A0In related news, the BBC reported that fears are growing that "
genetically modified" foods might promote drug-resistant "superbugs"
which could cause serious health risk to humans. Recent studies by Dutch =
scientists show that "it might be possible for genes to jump from
genetically-modified (GM) food into bacteria in the gut of farm
animals...If the transferred genes were the antibiotic-resistance genes =
used as markers in some GM crops fed to livestock." The report went on =
to say: "The danger would be that antibiotic-resistant microbes would
spread from animals to humans."
we
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Subject: Genetic Engineering Update
From: Dave Miller
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 22:33:19 -0400
Hi Folks,
just found this in the "Jan van Impe Intelligence Briefings":
In related news, the BBC reported that fears are growing that "
genetically modified" foods might promote drug-resistant "superbugs"
which could cause serious health risk to humans. Recent studies by Dutch
scientists show that "it might be possible for genes to jump from
genetically-modified (GM) food into bacteria in the gut of farm
animals...If the transferred genes were the antibiotic-resistance genes
used as markers in some GM crops fed to livestock." The report went on
to say: "The danger would be that antibiotic-resistant microbes would
spread from animals to humans."
--
Dave
_______________________________________
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¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
A "green" home remodeler
A father of 2 cockatiels
An organic farmer
A veggie drummer/keyboardist
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Subject: Re: Hybrid bream and aquaponics
From: "Uwe Bruenjes"
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 99 20:23:25 PDT
> Can't blame that on food,drink, or drugs my friend, it was a birth defe=
ct!
> Ken
Hi Ken,
sorry to hear that; I thought that there was a way out of it.
Anybody knows about sources for bream in Mexico? I would guess that the =
importation is permitted, but the fish would undergo a quarentine for who=
knows how much time. And still I would like to know if I should look for=
hybrid fingerlings, or breed those fellows all by myself.
Uwe
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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