Aquaponics Digest - Wed 04/07/99
Message 1: Re: Organic Farming
from "Brad Millis"
Message 2: Not Doomsday!
from Dave Miller
Message 3: Re: aquaponics ?not? organic?
from doelle
Message 4: Re: Organic Farming
from doelle
Message 5: Re:What to feed Tilapia
from "W.Warren"
Message 6: Re: Organic Farming
from KLOTTTRUE
Message 7: Re: aquaponics ?not? organic?
from KLOTTTRUE
Message 8: Re: aquaponics ?not? organic?
from "Capista"
Message 9: Re: More GE news
from KLOTTTRUE
Message 10: unsubscribe
from "Robert Mambi"
Message 11: Re: aquaponics ?not? organic?
from Gordon Watkins
Message 12: Re: Organic Farming
from Gordon Watkins
Message 13: Re: Organic Farming
from "F Stancato"
Message 14: RE: what to feed Tilapia?
from "Ronald W. Brooks"
Message 15: Re: aquaponics ?not? organic?
from "A Pilling"
Message 16: Fwd: Fish Farming on the Rise in Wis.
from Sunpeer
Message 17: sandy soil is dead?
from William Evans
Message 18: Re: Fwd. Start up
from "Uwe Bruenjes"
Message 19: Re: Organic Farming
from Dave Miller
Message 20: RE: what to feed Tilapia?
from JobieEagan@webtv.net
Message 21: Re: sandy soil is dead?
from JobieEagan@webtv.net
Message 22: Re: Organic Farming
from doelle
Message 23: Re: Organic Farming
from Gordon Watkins
Message 24: Re: Organic Farming
from doelle
Message 25: Re: Organic Farming
from JobieEagan@webtv.net
Message 26: Re: Organic Farming
from KLOTTTRUE
Message 27: RE: what to feed Tilapia?
from "Ronald W. Brooks"
Message 28: Re: Organic Farming
from KLOTTTRUE
Message 29: Re: aquaponics ?not? organic?
from "TGTX"
Message 30: RE: what to feed Tilapia?
from JobieEagan@webtv.net
Message 31: RE: what to feed Tilapia?
from JobieEagan@webtv.net
Message 32: RE: what to feed Tilapia?
from JobieEagan@webtv.net
Message 33: Re: what to feed Tilapia?
from Gordon Watkins
Message 34: RE: what to feed Tilapia?
from "Ronald W. Brooks"
Message 35: Re: Organic Farming
from Gordon Watkins
Message 36: Re: Fire Crackers
from "Dale Robinson"
Message 37: Re: Organic Farming
from "Dale Robinson"
Message 38: RE: what to feed Tilapia?
from "Ronald W. Brooks"
Message 39: RE: GE
from Dave Miller
Message 40: Re: aquaponics ?not? organic?
from Dave Miller
Message 41: Re: Organic Farming
from Dave Miller
Message 42: Re: what to feed Tilapia?
from "vpage"
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 1 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Organic Farming
From: "Brad Millis"
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 00:39:24 PDT
I was about to answer each of your questions but I think it would be
a bit more benificial if i just gave you a good resource;
Center for Agroecology and Sustainable Food Systems
University of California, Santa Cruz
http://zzyx.ucsc.edu/casfs
This is a great place to research, they do studies on each of your
questions and a lot more, have fun
noshwag
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 2 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Not Doomsday!
From: Dave Miller
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 04:23:46 -0400
To the uninformed, uninspired as well as to those hoping to be
enlightened:
Wow, this may not be specific to any one group, list or individual but
it surely has altered my thinking.I am not an alarmist, freak or one who
wants to purport false information. Please read thoroughly to understand
the implications. Keep some cash on hand is the best advice you will
ever hear from me. And send me your thoughts as well. This article woke
me up, no coffee, thank you........
Y2k and the Fractional Reserve Economy
Fractional Reserve banking for the uninitiated is simply the idea
that you only have on
hand for redemption a set percentage of total assets, say 5% or
10%. The other is
not available in cash to be handed out when more than 10% of the
people want it. In
other words, the banking system is dependent upon no more than 10%
of the
depositors wanting their money back at the same time. There is a
dual claim on your
money. Both you and the bank, through the borrower, claim the money
that YOU
deposited. If nothing else, Y2k is the first serious test of this
dual claim feature of the
modern banking.
Unfortunately, our entire global economy is now based upon this
same fractional
reserve ideology. The idea that you only have to stockpile, or
maintain an inventory,
based upon a mythical 10% demand rate. Any time the demand rate
goes above 10%
you then execute a JIT (Just in Time) policy and restock within 24
hours. At least this
is the retail theory underpinning the global, especially the
American, economy.
JIT was first implemented in the United States by the founder of
WAL-MART, Sam
Walton from Arkansas in the early 1970's. With the ruthless
precision of a visionary,
he simply eliminated the concept of maintaining an inventory. This
elimination
increased profits and cut overhead for WAL-MART, making it into the
retail power
house it has become. A small inventory is kept at a central
warehouse and called for
by the individual store as needed to replace sold items. The
retailer forces the
product producer to either incur the costs of maintaining inventory
himself, or adopt a
JIT policy of his own. So this is why JIT has come to dominate the
entire economy. It
is like a game of hearts. Nobody wants to be left holding excess
inventory(hearts).
This is the condition of the global economy in the last months of
1999. The concept of
maintaining stockpiles is alien to the modern concept of retail
ideology. In fact, it is
nearly impossible for, say a grocery store, to stockpile increased
inventory. There
simply isn't the physical space to store it in a modern store. Of
course, CNN just did a
piece about Xerox trying to store 30 days of parts in case
shortages happen in
January, 2000. They are using leased space and it will take them
the rest of the year
to do it. It is fascinating to see stockpiling seriously advocated
by large corporations
like Xerox. Isn't this the same crowd that ignored Y2k for the last
several years? Only
now they say it is serious enough to warrant a 30 day parts
stockpile? Who knows,
maybe they read the Senate Y2k report and saw the reality behind
the spin control.
The economic impact of Y2k will be immense and of a global nature.
Forget about the
power grid, telecommunications and the other basics for a moment;
we are going to
talk pure economics. The Y2k economic picture isn't pretty
precisely because Y2k
strikes directly at the underpinning of the modern global economy,
namely Just In
Time inventory. Yardeni seems to be the only economist of note,
besides little ole
amateur moi, that has figured out when JIT goes-the entire economy
goes with it. By
the middle of 2000, JIT could be renamed "It will get there when it
gets there". A
perfect example of this is the ill fated Hong Kong Airport opening
of last year. Did you
know that this one airport disruption caused a measurable drop in
the entire Hong
Kong GDP for the entire year? One tenth of one percent I do
believe; yet, many will
say that it is impossible to say what the economic effect of Y2k
will be. BUNK! It is
really simple; disrupt the flow of information, production or
distribution and you will
see immediate and devastating economic effects. And this kind of
disruption is what
Y2k will do. So why do people persist in saying Y2k will be a bump
in the road? At the
least, a bump in the road is quite capable of causing you to spend
money on a wheel
realignment. At the worst, you replace your front end. Don't
believe me: take a
Porsche and hit a pothole at 80mph and see what happens to your
front end. Our
modern economy is fine tuned and a precision instrument of great
complexity. Why
does everyone, except Yardeni, think it is a four wheel drive
Sports Utility Vehicle and
not the fragile sports car it really is?
You have to understand the JIT mechanism to understand why Y2k will
devastate it
regardless of the particular industry involved. To put it plainly,
the product doesn't
exist until it is produced and it isn't produced until it is
ordered by someone. Granted,
there is a residual inventory level maintained, but it is a pretty
low level of under 50
items. Generally whatever happens to be on a grocery store shelf at
any one time for
instance. That level isn't very much as my personal research
showed. At the local
grocery store the number of say soup cans is under a hundred,
usually much lower,
for each brand name and soup type. That's right, go to your
American, or anywhere
else, grocery store and actually count the number of say Progresso
Lentil soup cans.
24 is what I came up with at a medium sized urban grocery. With one
soup case
stacked on top of the grocery shelf for replenishment until more
can be ordered. True
there will another 24 of Chicken Noodle and so on down the list.
The point being that
the inventory depth is limited to 10 people buying 5 cans of each
variety. Starting to
get nervous?
Talking to the friendly grocery stocker proved fascinating. It
seems the store has
radio antennas in the ceiling and uses them to transmit restock
orders to its
warehouse 20 miles away. In this large warehouse a centralized
supply is maintained
and loaded onto trucks for store delivery. Micro managed,
computerized and precise
down to the last can of Progresso Lentil soup. The JIT inventory
system in all its glory
and naked efficiency. One truck out; one truck in. It is really an
amazing system as
long as normal customer demand is maintained. Just as fractional
reserve banking is
a great system for the elite as long as people have confidence in
the system. As long
as you can forecast that 24 cans of Progresso Lentil soup will last
a week you can
micro manage your inventory and make money. But what happens when
75 people
show up and want 5 soup cans each? Y2k will eventually register on
the populace.
What happens when demand explodes in a retail system not set up to
increase
production rapidly? What happens when people begin to understand
that whatever
Y2k related product they want they can only get a few of them?
If JIT were just limited to the grocery industry perhaps we could
muddle through
somehow. Maybe by eating real food grown from non hybrid seed in
our Y2k garden.
Just kidding! But I defy gold-eagle.com readers to find anything
different. Whatever
the industry, or the product the story is the same. A few items
actually on the shelf,
with a few more in the immediate area. Then there is a centrally
located warehouse
with a few more items; after that, you are right at the factory
gate. All told, whatever
the item I'd say were talking about under 100 until new items are
manufactured.
Actually, centrally located warehouse is a misnomer. It seems that
Memphis,
Tennessee is a airborne hub for national JIT. Largely due to
Federal Express being
located there, many companies have set up large warehouses and JIT
things by air
all over the country. We're just talking JIT here, so I won't get
into global trade,
embedded chip systems in manufacturing etc. etc. etc. Y2k is like
the mythological
Greek Hydra with its many heads. Start to write an essay about one
aspect of Y2k
and soon another rears its ugly head.
At least the reader should now have some idea of Y2k's likely
economic impact upon
our global economy. A personal experience at the grocery store
described earlier will
possibly help. Last summer, Duracell D batteries were on sale for
$1 a battery. Within
2 days the store was stripped bare, although the probable cause was
people seeking
to power their boom boxes and not Y2k. I got a rain check and then
proceeded to wait
two weeks, repeat two weeks, before the store restocked Duracell D
batteries. This
being the case with normal production and distribution channels
intact, what happens
when Y2k hits? Don't wait until December to stock up on Y2k
supplies.
THIS IS DAVE SPEAKING AND I WANT YOUR THOUGHTS. While JIT may be newer
here it originated from Japan as I understand. I wonder if they are
stockpiling now to make up....
Dave
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 3 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: aquaponics ?not? organic?
From: doelle
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 19:45:08 +1000
Ken,
You are exactly right. Pathogens are killed or at least reduced
significantly via composting and/or anaerobic digestion. These are the only
natural technologies which do the job.
Horst
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 4 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Organic Farming
From: doelle
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 19:46:30 +1000
Sorry, what do these questions refer to ?
Horst
At 08:13 PM 06/04/99 EDT, you wrote:
>Four questions,1.Can you produce as much organically?2.Does it cost as much
>to produce the same amount as with other methods?3. Does it take more or less
>time?4.Do you have to have more acreage?
>
>
Horst W.Doelle, D.Sc., D.Sc. [h.c.]
Chairman, IOBB
Director, MIRCEN-Biotechnology
FAX: +617-38783230
Email: doelle@ozemail.com.au
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 5 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re:What to feed Tilapia
From: "W.Warren"
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 06:02:43 -0400
I feed my tilapia a product called Rise from Agway. I don't have the specs
(does anyone out there?) but it was suggested to me by someone who's been in
the fish raising business for some time and all seems well. It costs $17
for a 50 pound bag.
Will
check out the biobarge!
http://www.shore.net/~wbw
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 6 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Organic Farming
From: KLOTTTRUE
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 07:07:35 EDT
In a message dated 4/7/99 5:42:17 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
doelle@ozemail.com.au writes:
<< Sorry, what do these questions refer to ?
>>
Organic Farming versus Conventional Farming. Ken
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 7 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: aquaponics ?not? organic?
From: KLOTTTRUE
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 07:11:41 EDT
In a message dated 4/7/99 5:41:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
doelle@ozemail.com.au writes:
<< Ken,
You are exactly right. Pathogens are killed or at least reduced
significantly via composting and/or anaerobic digestion. These are the only
natural technologies which do the job.
Horst
>>Bingo!
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 8 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: aquaponics ?not? organic?
From: "Capista"
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 06:49:02 -0400
Thanks for the words of encouragement, Amy.
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 9 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: More GE news
From: KLOTTTRUE
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 07:41:29 EDT
In a message dated 4/6/99 12:36:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
recycler@eclipse.net writes:
<< Hi Folks,
just found this in the "Jan van Impe Intelligence Briefings":
In related news, the BBC reported that fears are growing that "
genetically modified" foods might promote drug-resistant "superbugs"
which could cause serious health risk to humans. Recent studies by Dutch
scientists show that "it might be possible for genes to jump from
genetically-modified (GM) food into bacteria in the gut of farm
animals...If the transferred genes were the antibiotic-resistance genes
used as markers in some GM crops fed to livestock." The report went on
to say: "The danger would be that antibiotic-resistant microbes would
spread from animals to humans."
Anyone know more about this? Could it go into the gut of fish?
>>
Read closely,The key words are: Might,Could,If and Were,Sounds more like the
power of suggestion here,than it does Scientific Research, sounds like a
typical Media preemptive first strike from someone with an agenda to halt G
E.Show me some provens,from someone who knows and I will listen,If I believed
all the Mights,maybe's,If's and were's,I would sit In my closet and quake
with fear! Don't dance too fast,the music won't last! Why worry so much,
I'll probably walk out in the yellow brick road one day,and get run over by a
Superbug ( V.W. that is),and with a little luck,most of you will go out the
same way you came in,Fat,Bald,and Ugly! So long from, Tinkerbell
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 11 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: aquaponics ?not? organic?
From: Gordon Watkins
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 08:15:50 -0500
Ted,
I take it from your statement below that the fish are not certified. If so,
is it because of non-organic feed? Did you run into any difficulties with
certification due to adding non-certified ingredients (feed) to your irrigation
water, or do the certifiers equate it with the acceptable practice of adding
manures, animal and plant by-products, etc from non-certified sources to
fields? Do you know of any aquaponic systems in which all products, including
the fish, are certified?
Gordon
TGTX wrote:
> My aquaponics greenhouse system is organically certified- for the plants-
> as are a number of other aquaponics systems across the U.S.
>
> Aquaponics is not Hydroponics. Period.
>
> Ted.
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 12 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Organic Farming
From: Gordon Watkins
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 08:55:33 -0500
Ken,
The answers to your questions depend on your point of view.
The short-sighted answers, usually based on annual reports and year-to-year
financial analysis, and often given by detractors to dis organic farming,
are no,
more, more, and more. According to this viewpoint, the world will starve if
dependent on organic farming.
The long view, which incorporates concepts of ecological, financial, and
social sustainability and regeneration, is that organic farming is much more
productive and economically feasible when viewed over time.
The problem is that most folks among the agricultural establishment,
particularly economists, are loath to consider what they call "external costs".
These are costs such as soil degradation and erosion, groundwater depletion and
contamination, increasing health costs, including skyrocketing insurance
premiums, due to toxins in the food supply, the social impact of corporate
farming, etc, etc, etc. While these are very real costs, it's difficult to place
a dollar amount on them and so they are ignored. Because of this, the organic
tomato at $1.50/lb next to the commercial one for $.50/lb seems "expensive", and
100 bushel/acre organic corn compared to 200 bu/acre conventional corn seems
"unproductive".. However, if the costs above were attached it would quickly
become clear that no one could afford that $.50 tomato or he cheap corn.
What underlies this situation is what I call The Myth of Cheap Food.
With the
Green Revolution, the US embarked on a mission to feed the world and, towards
that end, the government heavily subsidized food production. As a result we have
come to expect what we think of as cheap food but which is, in reality,
prohibitively expensive. Until we consider the long-term impact of unsustainable
food production systems, organic farming will continue to be viewed as
unproductive and costly and we will continue down the path which has led to the
collapse of every great civilization.
Sorry for the long-winded rant but you asked a complex question.
Gordon
KLOTTTRUE wrote:
> Four questions,1.Can you produce as much organically?2.Does it cost as much
> to produce the same amount as with other methods?3. Does it take more or less
> time?4.Do you have to have more acreage?
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 13 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Organic Farming
From: "F Stancato"
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 11:19:30 -0400
Gordon, if I remember correctly the green revolution produced more crops
which contained less substance. Does organic growing increase the crops
content (ie vitamins, protein) as opposed to non-organic growing?
Do you know of any web sites that address this issue?
Thanks,
Frank
PS looking for a good organic forum, any suggestions?
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 14 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: RE: what to feed Tilapia?
From: "Ronald W. Brooks"
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 11:45:10 -0400
Trudy
I currently am growing 3 species of Tilapia ( Nile, Buttikofferi,
Mozambique ) of the three the Nile is making weight gains of 0.48 grams a
day. the Buttikofferi has made weight gains of 11 grams in 5 months. And the
Mozambique has made weight gains of 1 gram in the two weeks I have had them.
So far I am still looking for Aurea which is supposed to have weight gains
higher than the Nile.
So I guess you get what you pay for .
The Nile Tilapia cost me .25 a piece for 2 inch ( 4 gram ) fingerlings. And
so far I have lost 2 , one to jumping out of the system and the other to a
neurological problem.
The above 3 species shared the same system of 3 180 gallon stock tanks
hooked together in tandem. so water quality and temps were the exact same.
and they were fed the same feeds. Though I did try to jump start the
Buttikofferi by feeding frozen brine shrimp at an extra feeding for two
months without any results.
Ron
The One Who Walks Two Pat
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 15 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: aquaponics ?not? organic?
From: "A Pilling"
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 09:48:21 -0600
Even Sandy soils host biological activity. I live in New Mexico, where, in
some places, sandy soils and lack of water are the problem. At first glance,
there seems to be nothing happening in the soil. On closer inspection,
there's a lot happening. Everything from microphytic crusts (communities of
bacteria, algae, and fungi, I think) that don't even look like plant
material to strange desert algaes that look like little pieces of dried
seeweed...until it rains. Then, voila, rapid and lively biological activity
that's just been lying dormant for a while. And, the fact is, we can't
escape bacteria. It's everywhere. If we think of a soil as dead because it
doesn't support the crops we want to grow, we are ignoring all the life
forms that have adapted to those conditions. There may be plants growing in
your area that were used as food plants by indigenous people that new
locals don't even know about. I've been astounded to learn how many plants
which grow in these trying conditions were, and are still, used for food,
medicine, etc. by local indigenous people. They're not the foods I remember
from the grocery store as a child, that's for sure. I understand what you
mean by having to grow things hydroponically where you are, because you
could do the same in some areas here if you wanted to grow crops that are
marketable to the majority of people. I just want to say that there are
"farms" producing forage foods and crops all around me that I wasn't aware
of until recently. It has given me new respect for different ecosystems. I
now assume very little.
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 16 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Fwd: Fish Farming on the Rise in Wis.
From: Sunpeer
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 12:10:03 EDT
Subject: Fish Farming on the Rise in Wis.
Fish Farming on the Rise in Wis.
.c The Associated Press
By ROBERT IMRIE
WAUSAU, Wis. (AP) -- Wisconsin's rural landscape is dominated by corn fields,
silos and dairy farms. But experts say the fastest growing sector of the
agriculture industry uses tanks, ponds and nets.
Sales of fish raised on Wisconsin farms are expected to grow nearly 60
percent within five years, in part because the state's tradition of Friday
fish fries has created a demand for perch fillets.
``It is an industry bulging at the seams to grow. The existing farms now are
not going to be able to keep up with the demand,'' said David Gallon,
president of the Wisconsin Aquaculture Association. ``Five years ago, people
didn't know where to sell trout in Wisconsin. Five years later, they can't
produce enough.''
A decade ago, Wisconsin had about 150 fish farms. Today, the state has about
265 that produce fish for food, bait and restocking, said Bud Sholts,
director of aquaculture development for the state Agriculture Department.
About 35 to 40 more are being developed and should begin production within a
year.
Surveys suggest production will grow 11 percent in each of the next five
years, Sholts said.
``You wouldn't believe the interest. I get 40 requests a month just to start
up,'' he said. ``They range all the way from, `Grandpa left me $10 million
after taxes,' to entrepreneurs in other businesses to farmers that want a
second profit center.''
Dr. Myron Kebus, a veterinarian who worked with the aquaculture industry in
private practice before joining the state Agriculture Department, called
aquaculture a ``maturing industry.''
In Wisconsin, 62 percent of the fish farms report less than $10,000 in gross
sales and only 2 percent of the total sales, he said.
``There is tremendous demand, tremendous potential and there are also
tremendous challenges,'' Kebus said. ``A lot of people are looking at this as
an easier form of farming, and I don't know that I would say that is a
reasonable statement. Fish farmers I know who are successful work very hard.''
Michael Libbin started Paragon Aquaculture near Oshkosh in 1995 and markets
about 1,000 pounds of yellow perch each month to clients primarily in the Fox
Valley.
``Our niche market is white-tablecloth restaurants,'' he said. ``Not
everybody can afford our product, so we go to those that are a little higher
end.''
Libbon said the annual demand in Wisconsin for yellow perch tops 30 million
pounds. Commercially, about 10 million pounds are raised on farms or netted
from the Great Lakes.
Alpine Farms started in Sheboygan Falls in 1991 and raises perch and trout in
a 7,000-gallon tank, said co-owner John Hyisk. There is a lot to learn in the
business, he said.
``It is not, `I am going to get a tank, fill it with water, fill it with fish
and get rich.'''
AP-NY-04-06-99 0117EDT
Copyright 1998 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP
news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise
distributed without prior written authority of The Associated Press.
To edit your profile, go to keyword NewsProfiles
.
For all of today's news, go to keyword News.
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 17 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: sandy soil is dead?
From: William Evans
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 09:55:55 -0700
...more on dead sandy soils...
some desert sands actually fix nitrogen,,, some kind of weird catalytic
reaction involving titanium bearing minerals or something..i think was
mentioned as equivqalent to 50 to 100 pounds of N per acre.
Coral sands are high in Ca, aren't they?That's a goody.
billevans
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 18 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Fwd. Start up
From: "Uwe Bruenjes"
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 99 18:13:08 PDT
Hi ken,
the black tank might be part of your problem, as it attracts the infrared=
rays and heats up the water. Try some white stuff around the tank. Also =
consider what Jim said, as the algae obviously feed on something.
Uwe
> Hi,Adrianna,my tanks are black,so they only get light from the top,do =
you
> think shading would help?How big are your tanks? Thanks for answering =
Ken
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 19 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Organic Farming
From: Dave Miller
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 14:15:11 -0400
Organic farming definitely produces food with more nutrients due to the
richer content of the soil. Conversely, depleted soil means produce that
is a filler more than a food, hence the need to take vitamins and
supplements. I read in Organic Gardening Magazine (around a year or two
ago) that broccoli in the '30's had nearly twice the trace minerals of
today.
This is another hidden cost to growing organically vs non-organically.
The average American is eating more to make up for this nutrient lacking
hence our high obesity rate. Thank you Gordon for your great explanation
on the false economics. The key word was subsidation. The true cost is
diverted or hidden much like our artifically low gas prices.
BTW who really thinks that not buying gas on a particular day means
anything, you still consume the same amount of gas. Now if you choose to
carpool or stay home and telecommute that day the message might have
impact.
I choose organic despite the higher upfront cost as an insurance policy.
A little more each day is cheaper than the doctor visit or worse the
surgeon...
Ted, where are the organic fish feeds you were working on?
--
Dave
_______________________________________
«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
A "green" home remodeler
A father of 2 cockatiels
An organic farmer
A veggie drummer/keyboardist
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 20 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: RE: what to feed Tilapia?
From: JobieEagan@webtv.net
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 17:20:12 -0400 (EDT)
Thanks Ron,
The tilapia we have in Florida are also called Nile perch. Do you
suppose it is the same as yours? Trudy
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 21 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: sandy soil is dead?
From: JobieEagan@webtv.net
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 17:26:56 -0400 (EDT)
It's sadly true that Fl. soils are some of the poorest. I add lots of
organic material and mine tests out as sandy loam. Nevertheless
whatever is added leaches very quickly. Fortunately compost also cooks
fast in this heat. I always thought it rather ironic that the chemical
fertilizers of the world come mostly from beneath this very sand. Trudy
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 22 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Organic Farming
From: doelle
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 07:36:12 +1000
Bingo, Gordon. Many thanks for your excellent answer. It also applies to the
medical costs in regard to the prevention of diseases and pollution. Nobody
ever puts into the petrol or gasoline price the costs for asthma sufferers,
remediation of our waters from oil spillages etc etc. We pay taxes and that
is accepted. But just think what we would save on tax payment if we could
exclude all the sickness from pollution, use of chemicals etc etc.
Horst
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 23 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Organic Farming
From: Gordon Watkins
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 16:36:32 -0500
Frank,
This is an arguable issue and probably depends on what you are measuring.
Some years back there was a study called the "Firman Bear Report", out of Purdue
I think, which compared the nutritional levels of organic vs. conventional crops
and it showed overwhelmingly that organic was more nutritious. As I recall
however, this study was later exposed as a hoax. I too would be interested in
any sound data on nutritional levels of organic foods.
Check out the organic Farmers marketing Association at
http://web.iquest.net/ofma/
Gordon
F Stancato wrote:
> Gordon, if I remember correctly the green revolution produced more crops
> which contained less substance. Does organic growing increase the crops
> content (ie vitamins, protein) as opposed to non-organic growing?
>
> Do you know of any web sites that address this issue?
>
> Thanks,
> Frank
>
> PS looking for a good organic forum, any suggestions?
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 24 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Organic Farming
From: doelle
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 07:45:45 +1000
Well said and explained David. Fully agree. Does anyone takes into economics=
what it costs to go to the Health Food Store to buy the additional vitamins=
which are not anymore in our food ? Surely not.
We 'oldies' grew up without Health Food Stores and surely cannot complain=
too much in regard to health.
Economists can justify everything even selling your grandmother !!
Best regards
Horst=20
Horst W.Doelle, D.Sc., D.Sc. [h.c.]
Chairman, IOBB
Director, MIRCEN-Biotechnology
FAX: +617-38783230
Email: doelle@ozemail.com.au
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 25 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Organic Farming
From: JobieEagan@webtv.net
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 18:47:42 -0400 (EDT)
I kind of wonder why heart attacks are more frequent, cancer is at
epidemic proportions. The food we eat has been accused. Maybe it's
really in the air---the water--- Maybe we're just living long enough to
die with something other than childbirth, ect. Trudy
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 26 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Organic Farming
From: KLOTTTRUE
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 19:41:23 EDT
In a message dated 4/7/99 9:57:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
gwatkins@yournet.com writes:
<< These are costs such as soil degradation and erosion, groundwater
depletion and
>>
Gordon ,I've always understood that we don't use up the water,that the same
amount of water,that was here in the beginning,is still here,I have a
theory,I know the underground Aquafier water table is lower,but I believe
this is due to all the manmade resevoirs,and ponds holding it above
ground,furthermore if you think about evaporation,I think this a major
contributor to this greenhouse effect,and global warming we keep hearing
about.What are your thoughts on this? Thanks Ken
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 27 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: RE: what to feed Tilapia?
From: "Ronald W. Brooks"
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 19:49:17 -0400
I can not find that name in Peterson's . so I am assuming that it is a
local name. I know that there is a large population of T. Mariea in Florida
I have contacted the NFC exotic removal team to have some sent up here for
study . I will contact Daryl and ask him about the name and get back to you.
One thing you have to watch out for in wild stocks is hybridization. Not all
hybrids are created equal :~)
Ron
The One Who Walks Two Paths
-> -----Original Message-----
-> From: aquaponics
-> [mailto:aquaponics]On Behalf Of JobieEagan@webtv.net
-> Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 1999 5:20 PM
-> To: aquaponics@townsqr.com
-> Subject: RE: what to feed Tilapia?
->
->
-> Thanks Ron,
-> The tilapia we have in Florida are also called Nile perch. Do you
-> suppose it is the same as yours? Trudy
->
->
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 28 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Organic Farming
From: KLOTTTRUE
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 19:29:29 EDT
In a message dated 4/7/99 9:57:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
gwatkins@yournet.com writes:
<< Ken,
The answers to your questions depend on your point of view.
>>
Gordon,I don't have a point of view on this one,just some questions that have
been on my mind for quite some time.Ken
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 29 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: aquaponics ?not? organic?
From: "TGTX"
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 19:21:53 -0500
Hi Gordon.
you wrote:
> I take it from your statement below that the fish are not certified. If
so,
> is it because of non-organic feed?
Well....first and foremost, it is because Texas really has no organic
aquaculture standards in place at this time (although livestock
certification is in a transition phase right now, with "naturally grown"
being acceptible...but that is a very involved and totally different story
right now), and
Secondly....it is because I am still working on.. or shall I say..I am
still waiting on.... certain things to take place with the organic feed
developments...I have submitted the outline and supporting documents to
Texas Dept. of Ag for my version of aquaculture standards that I have
shared with you, Gordon, and a few others on this list, and that whole
thing has evolved somewhat in the year or more now that I began this quest.
I have persuaded, cajoled, inticed, seduced, and brow beat.....a nationally
recognized fish feed mill to finally take a risk and become organically
certified..nobody has ever done this before in the USA to the best of my
knowledge... because the mills were always approached in the past by fish
farmers that did not have a clue about regional or local sources for the
organic feed stock material....or what the certifying organization might
ask them to do that was out of the ordinary.....so I scoured the
countryside and found a raw materials supplier, then I brought in a good
certifier... and I hooked them up...I got them all talking and
networking...but it was real hard and real frustrating for
everybody...especially me, because I am easily frustrated by bureaucracies
and nay sayers and all those personality issues.....So, finally, I talked
them into it....it took about a year....now we are in a dead still water
area...the doldrums of government and commerce have taken the wind out of
my sails....So, please pray for a good outcome....I think a big parade of
aquaponic practitioners demanding this feed, or something like it, might
turn the tide, but who knows?
>Did you run into any difficulties with certification due to adding
non-certified >ingredients (feed) to your irrigation water, or do the
certifiers equate it with the >acceptable practice of adding manures,
animal and plant by-products, etc from non->certified sources to fields? Do
you know of any aquaponic systems in which all > products, including
> the fish, are certified?
> Gordon
The perspective is that this is really no different than an organic farmer
irrigating with pond or creek water in which fish and other aquatic
organisms happen to live in. Many organic farmers around the globe
irrigate with local stream water, and even "fertigate" that way by
injecting fish emulsion and kelp extract along with the creek water....so
that is the way things are. The feed is, as you know, virtually entirely
consumed by the voracious fish without a trace, then they excrete their
wastes, and the vast majority of those solids collect at the bottom of the
tank where they are worked on and transformed by the bacteria at the bottom
of the fish tank. I pump in such a way that it intake water is "clarified"
of most solids before it reaches the gravel beds. Over many ebb and flow
cycles, the gravel acts further to filter, aerate, transform, and decompose
complex nutrients as it is placed into contact with the complex
microorganism community in the immediate vicinity of the plant roots. The
feed is not equated with manures or any of the materials you mentioned and
it should not be for obvious reasons...The feed ingredients were examined
closely both by myself and the certifiers....(As I have mentioned in
several posts to this group, I am trying to get a better feed formula...I
have an all plant protein feed formula for Tilapia which is waiting for
future developments with this feed mill thing)....and we saw that no
prohibited materials were present in the feed...all the materials were on
the allowed list.
To answer your question about certified fish, I must say no. There are no
aquaponic systems or any aquaculture systems that I know of which are
producing aquaculture products in the USA of any kind, be it fish, or
shrimp, or what have you. The plants in aquaponic systems can be
certified...mine are....Bioshelters in Massachussetts are. There are only a
few others perhaps in the whole world that are.
I aspire to become the first organically certified fish farmer in the
Republic of Texas, if not the USA...so wish us luck...I will need it. So
let it be written, so let it be done.
"It is not a Great Ambition, Grasshopper, but it is an ambition"
Ted
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 30 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: RE: what to feed Tilapia?
From: JobieEagan@webtv.net
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 20:34:15 -0400 (EDT)
I have another question concerning feed. Guess questions will never
end. But I was told by a dealer that tilapia are fed a special mix for
their first 30 days that cause all the fries to be males. After that
they go to regular feed. Surely someone here can elaborate on that?
Thanks again, Trudy
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 31 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: RE: what to feed Tilapia?
From: JobieEagan@webtv.net
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 20:35:48 -0400 (EDT)
Ron,
By the way that same dealer suggested I would be better off with the
wild stock than paying 3.75 for 5 breeder fish.
Trudy
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 32 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: RE: what to feed Tilapia?
From: JobieEagan@webtv.net
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 20:36:51 -0400 (EDT)
Oops! Make that $375.00.
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 33 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: what to feed Tilapia?
From: Gordon Watkins
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 21:00:55 -0500
Probably feed laced with methyl-testosterone, a male hormone. This is a
typical way of producing all-male stock but I believe it requires either a
liscense or special permission for experimental use because it's a
regulated drug. Perhaps others can correct me or elaborate. The
alternative is to cross breed with hornorum males and either nilotica or
mossambica females. These crosses produce predominantly (95%+) male
offspring.
Gordon
JobieEagan@webtv.net wrote:
> I have another question concerning feed. Guess questions will never
> end. But I was told by a dealer that tilapia are fed a special mix for
> their first 30 days that cause all the fries to be males. After that
> they go to regular feed. Surely someone here can elaborate on that?
> Thanks again, Trudy
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 34 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: RE: what to feed Tilapia?
From: "Ronald W. Brooks"
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 22:25:47 -0400
What they are referring too is a hormone laced feed that is fed for 28 days
just after the yolk sack has been absorbed. Currently this drug is in the
FDA's testing program , so it is not available in the United States.
Another way to get all male fry is to cross a female pure strain Nile with a
male pure strain Aruea or one of the male hybrids of the Honorum line ( Mike
Sipe's line )
Ron
The One Who Walks Two Paths
-> -----Original Message-----
-> From: aquaponics
-> [mailto:aquaponics]On Behalf Of JobieEagan@webtv.net
-> Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 1999 8:34 PM
-> To: aquaponics@townsqr.com
-> Subject: RE: what to feed Tilapia?
->
->
-> I have another question concerning feed. Guess questions will never
-> end. But I was told by a dealer that tilapia are fed a special mix for
-> their first 30 days that cause all the fries to be males. After that
-> they go to regular feed. Surely someone here can elaborate on that?
-> Thanks again, Trudy
->
->
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 35 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Organic Farming
From: Gordon Watkins
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 21:26:00 -0500
You're correct of course Ken. In the Big Picture, we mere humans are just a
blip on the screen and will have little lasting impact on the planet. In the
long haul we just redistribute resources, rather than deplete them, and what
mistakes we make in our ignorance or arrogance only shortens our human
existence. 50 million years from now (intermission in the Big Picture) there
will likely be no evidence of our lives, regardless of how wastefully we
behave.
However, our redistribution of resources, such as pumping water from deep
aquifers like the Oglalla to irrigate the desert, has significant impact within
the short span of generations. Surface water takes something like 40 years to
percolate down and replenish deep aquifers. In the meantime, if we pump them
dry like we're doing now, and create massive agicultural empires based on cheap
water, cheap land, and cheap food, it WILL eventually collapse and the impact
will much more devastating than any benefits promised by the Green Revolution.
Incidentally, our government at one time provided "depletion allowances" to
farmers to compensate them for degrading the soil and water because it made
their operations less productive. Talk about Catch-22!
I'm not sure what this has to do with aquaponics except that our systems
are inherently water conserving and so offer a positive alternative to the
scenario above.
Gordon
KLOTTTRUE wrote:
> In a message dated 4/7/99 9:57:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> gwatkins@yournet.com writes:
>
> << These are costs such as soil degradation and erosion, groundwater
> depletion and
> >>
> Gordon ,I've always understood that we don't use up the water,that the same
> amount of water,that was here in the beginning,is still here,I have a
> theory,I know the underground Aquafier water table is lower,but I believe
> this is due to all the manmade resevoirs,and ponds holding it above
> ground,furthermore if you think about evaporation,I think this a major
> contributor to this greenhouse effect,and global warming we keep hearing
> about.What are your thoughts on this? Thanks Ken
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 36 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Fire Crackers
From: "Dale Robinson"
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 18:24:42 -0500
Sugar burns too. If you put sugar in an engine it will freeze up the works
real good.
Did you happen to take a good look at the residue left over from your fire?
A lot of carbon right? Engines don't deal well with carbon and we don't
need any more in the atmosphere. Saw dust will flame up too but it contains
a lot of carbon too.
Best regards
Dale Robinson
prof-robinson@worldnet.att.net
> In a message dated 4/3/99 6:08:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> wnagurny@sunlink.net writes:
>
> << I just thought of something. A number of years ago, I was using my
MIL's
> oven. I turned it on to warm up. In a few minutes, there was smoke
pouring
> out of the vent. She was using her oven to store crackers. I grabbed
some
> mitts (fortunately she also stored her cookie sheets in the oven) and
> carried a flaming box of oyster crackers out of the house on a cookie
sheet.
> That box burned for over twenty minutes. Flour fires were also a problem
in
> grain mills.
>
> Has anybody ever investigated using a wheat flour based fuel?
> >>
> Hey Wendy, What were the results of your experiment? Which generated the
most
> heat? Your MIL,or the Cracker Fire? Thanks from the Lighter Side
>
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 37 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Organic Farming
From: "Dale Robinson"
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 20:16:21 -0500
I can answer these questions but I ask that you do a little research on your
own before you question my answers.
> Four questions,
>1.Can you produce as much organically?
Compared to what? Hydroponics is also considered organic in some circles.
If you do your homework and get everything right, organic farming will do
better then non-organic farming methods. When organic teas and hydroponics
fomulated mixes are grown next to each other the hydroponics mix will show
more consistent growth.
>2.Does it cost as much to produce the same amount as with other methods?
How much is your time worth? Do you want to shovel tons or teaspoons? In
organic farmining you feed the soil. In hydroponics you feed the plants.
Which are you going to eat?
>3. Does it take more or less time?
I have to say more time.
>4.Do you have to have more acreage?
Yes and no. Again, are we talking organic vrs. non-organic farming or as
compared to hydroponics. In organic farming the organic material has to be
broken down into inorganic componds and carried to the plant by water. In
the process the plants have to put out more growth in the root system in
order to get enough nutrients. This results in the plant needing more space
per plant then in hydroponics. Since hydroponics has all the nutrients
available for the plant to use, the root systems are much smaller and the
growth goes to the upper plant rather then to the roots. Plants can be
placed as close as possible for lighting conditions with no concern about
nutrients getting to the plants in hydroponics. I see non-organic farming
as putting nutrients into soil thus killing the organisums that are present
in soil.
Organisums do not have to be present around the roots. Organisums break
down the soil into usable inoranic componds for the plants to use. Plants
can not absorb organic materals. There are no differences between organic
and hydroponic produce, all things being equal. The problem with organics
is that you can not keep ideal conditions for the plants in any consistancy.
In hydroponics ideal conditions are more easily obtained. Aquaponics
produces less then ideal conditions for the plants, but the trade offs are
worth the sacrifices.
I know I will get a lot of argument from a few organic fanatics from this
last paragraph. All I ask is, when contesting it please quote studies. My
information comes from articles and books writen by researchers and personal
experience. I will not respond to anything that is not backed up by quoted
studies.
Best regards
Dale Robinson
prof-robinson@worldnet.att.net
>
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 38 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: RE: what to feed Tilapia?
From: "Ronald W. Brooks"
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 22:44:00 -0400
You can get breeding stock a lot cheaper than that. with a little leg work
you can get stock in the range of 10 - 20 dollars a piece. Or if you can
invest the 6 months in the wait you can get pure strain Nile fingerlings
from Living Waters Tilapia Farm real cheap.
Another possibility is to check with local vocational/trade schools that
have livestock programs and see if they have an Aquaculture program . Come
summer time they should have a lot of stock for sale , just tell them you
want them live not dressed out.
or if the state agricultural college has a aquaculture program you sometimes
can get them to sell off some old breeders.
Currently I am about 5 hours from a high school aquaculture operation that
uses mixed sex Nile in there system and I could purchase and bring home some
breeders. They sell off most of their grow out in the spring for around 7
dollars a pound. If you weren't in Florida and me in Ohio I could tell you
of several places to get breeders to set up a system for under $100.
If I had to get breeding stock over again I would buy a 1000 fingerlings of
mixed sex Nile and grow them out and keep them slightly crowded to reduce
breeding behavior . Then a couple of months before harvest I would choose
the best males and females for my breeders and grow the rest for harvest.
And hopefully by then the hormone feed will be approved for Tilapia or I
could always buy one of Mike's $75 males to get sex linked fry.
Ron
The One Who Walks Two Paths
-> -----Original Message-----
-> From: aquaponics
-> [mailto:aquaponics]On Behalf Of JobieEagan@webtv.net
-> Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 1999 8:37 PM
-> To: aquaponics@townsqr.com
-> Subject: RE: what to feed Tilapia?
->
->
-> Oops! Make that $375.00.
->
->
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 39 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: RE: GE
From: Dave Miller
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 23:17:40 -0400
Trudy,
It is more than just food. It is the polluted air, the run-off in the
water, the contrails in the sky (jet fuel). We are clogging up this
Earth, we know it yet we allow it to happen. We are living longer so
surely more of us will succumb to cancer, diabetes, respitory illness.
But a good diet will always go along way to keeping our immune system in
tip top shape - so that maybe we can fight off the illnesses that are
higher in America and lower where food is organic and little or no
animal products are consumed. Even where poverty rules and healthcare is
poorest, their bodies are fittest. Sounds good to me.
A friend of mine is doing her dissertation on Cuba. Because of the
embargo, petroleum consumption is minimal and fertilizers are expensive
or non-existant. They have gone back as a nation to organic gardening!
I am curious what changes to their health will follow.
--
Dave
_______________________________________
«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
A "green" home remodeler
A father of 2 cockatiels
An organic farmer
A veggie drummer/keyboardist
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 40 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: aquaponics ?not? organic?
From: Dave Miller
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 23:55:13 -0400
Ted,
Bless you for your commitment. You might turn this around and start a
wave of organic fish growers.
I wish you the best of luck in patience and perserverance!
--
Dave
_______________________________________
«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
A "green" home remodeler
A father of 2 cockatiels
An organic farmer
A veggie drummer/keyboardist
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 41 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Organic Farming
From: Dave Miller
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 00:43:44 -0400
Dale wrote:
> Plants can not absorb organic materals.
Can you clarify this?
Dave
_______________________________________
«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
A "green" home remodeler
A father of 2 cockatiels
An organic farmer
A veggie drummer/keyboardist
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 42 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: what to feed Tilapia?
From: "vpage"
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 22:30:56 -0600
Hello Ron,
what is Living Waters Tilapia Farm?
VPage
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
|
