Aquaponics Digest - Tue 04/20/99
Message 1: Re: Nutrient:Plant ratios
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 2: Re: Ratios, was Re: Start up
from "Lloyd R. Prentice"
Message 3: Basil, was Nutrient:Plant ratios
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 4: Re: Nutrient:Plant ratios
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 5: (no subject)
from "Marc S. Nameth"
Message 6: Re: Ratios, was Re: Start up
from Jim Sealy Jr
Message 7: Re: Ratios, was Re: Start up
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 8: RE: Ratios, was Re: Start up
from JEFF RANDOLPH
Message 9: Re: Progress report
from KLOTTTRUE
Message 10: Re: Progress report
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 11: Re: Farm start
from "TGTX"
Message 12: Malabar spinach
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 13: Re: Progress report
from KLOTTTRUE
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Subject: Re: Nutrient:Plant ratios
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 08:18:55 -0500
At 02:41 PM 4/16/99 -0400, I wrote:
>> I apologize for misunderstandings my statement may have caused. I should
>> have said one cubic foot of water to two cubic feet of grow bed media - in
>> our case gravel. If your grow beds were only 3" deep, as Adriana mentions
>> above, the square footage of grow space should increase 4 times.
(and Adriana replied)
>Paula,
> Don't you think the ratios depend on the type of plants being grown?
>Let's assume we're planting either basil or lettuce in both systems.
>These plants can be densely seeded in a 3" deep bed but will also do
>well in your 12" deep gravel beds. Wouldn't both systems require the
>same amount of nutrient to supply the needs of 1 square foot of plants
>regardless of depth of beds?
I think this may be one of the most significant differences between a
hydroponics system and an aquaponics system. Yes, specific plants require a
set amount of nutrients, regardless of the depth of the media; but the
difference lies in the delivery system, and perhaps in your philosophy of
the plants' capabilities. Please correct me if I'm wrong; but in
hydroponics I believe the media is chosen for support, nutrient retention,
etc. The nutrients are delivered at a level determined, mixed, and
monitored by the operator; with replenishment/replacement when the level
drops below optimum.
In our particular aquaponics system, the nutrients are supplied on a
constantly renewing basis, with the fish effluent/excess feed supplying the
base product rendered available to the plants through bacterial breakdown
and action. That's a bit simplistic, but I think is the basic action. I
understand that plants have optimum nutrients levels for growth, but our
experience has been that plants are capable of extracting what they need
without constant intervention on our part if a sensible balance is
maintained. When an aquaponics system is out of balance, there are
indicators in either plant or fish stress. The most common problem we've
seen would come from overfeeding, allowing more effluent/waste into the
system than it was capable of handling. You'll notice this first in the
fish water quality, and they'll stop eating. If you back off and allow the
"filtration system" to catch up, balance can be restored.
So, yes, a square foot of a specific crop would require a set amount of
nutrients regardless of the depth of the beds, and an aquaponics system
could be tailored to suit shallow root depth plants. But because you're
making only long-term, "slow release" adjustments to the nutrient levels, I
believe you could supply four square feet of 3" deep beds for each one
square foot of 12" beds in an established, gravel or other long-term media
system.
There are other systems using different approaches (such as Dr. Rakocy's
raft system, for instance) that use only the quickly available nutrients for
plant growth in the system (and water filtration for intensive fish
production), dropping out the heavier nutrients and using them for outdoor
soil enhancement. And his figures show this to be a viable, successful
approach, accomplishing the objectives of his system.
>Only if you have plants that REQUIRE a
>larger area for extensive root structures (like tomatoes) would you
>increase the square footage in the ratios. In this case your planting
>density would decrease in a shallow system to accomodate the needs of
>the plants.
>
>Adriana
Plant density, of course, has more factors than nutrients - crop size,
spacing for plant health and management (harvesting) are factors also.
System design will depend entirely on the purpose of the system. If you
were designing a facility to produce only shallow root crops, it probably
would not be wise to use only deep beds. If, however, you need flexibility
(and don't want to redo your design with crop changes), deeper beds would
allow for seasonal/market changes without major renovation.
The ratio we use (2 cu. ft. of grow bed media to 1 cu. ft. of water) is the
closest we've come to what we consider optimum levels for a variety of
crops. Within that ratio, we've grown together (at the same time) in the
same node (or mini-system if you prefer) lettuces, herbs, tomatoes, peppers,
cucumbers, ornamentals, and root crops. We use that ratio as a recommended
starting place, with variations that can be made depending on the individual
grower's needs.
I hope this explains a little better our thinking on this.
Paula
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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Subject: Re: Ratios, was Re: Start up
From: "Lloyd R. Prentice"
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 10:31:36 -0400
How deep are your growing beds, Jim?
Best wishes,
Lloyd R. Prentice
Jim Sealy Jr wrote:
> I'm pretty much using the ~1:2 ratio, but with 1/4"-3/8" washed/screened
> pea gravel. 4 1'x4'x8' (plywood with pool liner) beds per 1000 gal stock
> tank, stocked with 1200 hybrid bream per tank.
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Subject: Basil, was Nutrient:Plant ratios
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 09:16:25 -0500
At 05:23 PM 4/16/99 EDT, Ken wrote:
>In a message dated 4/16/99 2:41:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>gutierrez-lagatta@home.com writes:
>
><< Don't you think the ratios depend on the type of plants being grown?
> Let's assume we're planting either basil or lettuce in both systems >>
>Hello people,what type of Basil do you recommend? Ken
Ken, we found the Genovese sweet basil to be the most commercially
acceptable - both in our local retail/restaurant markets and the
broker/wholesale market we supplied for a while. Our seed was purchased
from Johnny's seed company.
Paula
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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Subject: Re: Nutrient:Plant ratios
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 10:35:27 -0400
Thanks for your excellent response, Paula. I think this highlights the
fact that each system is different depending not only on system design
but crops, density and climatological factors. Once they are up and
running the plants and fish(or nutrient source) will eventually guide
you to finding the appropriate balance.
Adriana
> The ratio we use (2 cu. ft. of grow bed media to 1 cu. ft. of water) is the
> closest we've come to what we consider optimum levels for a variety of
> crops. Within that ratio, we've grown together (at the same time) in the
> same node (or mini-system if you prefer) lettuces, herbs, tomatoes, peppers,
> cucumbers, ornamentals, and root crops. We use that ratio as a recommended
> starting place, with variations that can be made depending on the individual
> grower's needs.
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Subject: Re: Ratios, was Re: Start up
From: Jim Sealy Jr
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 11:40:01 -0500
My beds are 1 foot deep.
Part of the problem for me is the weight of fish. I'm running these on
the low density side (1/4-1/2 pound per gallon) since I'm just doing
midsize fish in the aquaponic system. I'm trying to do grow out from 1"
until they reach 4", then the bream are transferred to pond cages. If I
raised them to full size, I'm sure I'd need more grow beds per tank, and
plan to to that with the big set-up which will grow out to table size.
We normally raise the bream up to 3"-4" in raceways before transfer to
the cages and the aquaponics system makes a great replacement for
conventional raceway culture and commercial filtration systems or
massive water changes.
Jim
"Lloyd R. Prentice" wrote:
>
> How deep are your growing beds, Jim?
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Lloyd R. Prentice
>
> Jim Sealy Jr wrote:
>
> > I'm pretty much using the ~1:2 ratio, but with 1/4"-3/8" washed/screened
> > pea gravel. 4 1'x4'x8' (plywood with pool liner) beds per 1000 gal stock
> > tank, stocked with 1200 hybrid bream per tank.
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Subject: Re: Ratios, was Re: Start up
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 12:38:31 -0500
At 09:42 AM 4/19/99 -0500, Jim wrote:
>I'm pretty much using the ~1:2 ratio, but with 1/4"-3/8" washed/screened
>pea gravel. 4 1'x4'x8' (plywood with pool liner) beds per 1000 gal stock
>tank, stocked with 1200 hybrid bream per tank. When I first flooded the
>system it pulled the tank down too low for me to feel comfortable (fish
>showed distress) so I switched to staged flooding. 2 beds are filled to
>capacity and drained, which then shuts off the pump. The next 2 beds
>then get filled and drained. This alternating of beds seems easier on
>the fish. Should I be concerned about the greater amount of airspace
>apparently on my media? It seems to be working well enough now.
>How far should the flooding of the beds pull down the fish tank? My
>water level dropped 1.5 feet the first time so I just assumed something
>wasn't right about my ratios.
>Jim
Jim, I don't think extra airspace (or pockets) in the beds would be
detrimental - I think it would be beneficial to oxygen exchange. You'll
find the beds have a greater overall capacity for water at start-up (before
the gravel has settled any), and you'll probably see it again when you
change crops and loosen the gravel, if you do. It sounds as if you've
worked through the balancing, though, if your fish and plants are doing
well. That should be your primary indicator.
>PS: the dozer work is done on my first commercial scale aquaponic
>greenhouse (5500 sq.ft / 22,000 gal lap pool style raceway tank) and we
>start to stake off the foundation tomorrow. Wish me luck..
Congratulations!! - let us know how it goes.
>S & S Aqua Farm wrote:
>>
>> We've settled on this ratio based on both growth results in the plant beds
>> and water quality. And Jim, if your gravel beds are filled to "capacity"
>> with 1/8" to 1/4" gravel, only the amount of water that can temporarily fill
>> in the air space would be required to "fill" the gravel bed.
>>
>> Hope this more clear.
>>
>> Paula
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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Subject: RE: Ratios, was Re: Start up
From: JEFF RANDOLPH
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 13:48:43 -0500
Jim-
What type of capital costs are you looking at in building a 5500 square =
foot commercial aquaponics operation?? Would it be possible to talk =
or email you off the list?
Thanks,
Jeff
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Subject: Re: Progress report
From: KLOTTTRUE
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 16:22:15 EDT
Hello everyone,I just wanted to let anybody who cares know,I have already
started making money sold some tomato plants and quite a few coleus
arrangements,what Tom and Paula said about rooting cuttings from plants and
trees is true,I've successfully rooted Celosia and Bradford Pear and some
wild Azaleas,and I've already recieved some requests to grow plants special
order. Just thought I would throw some good news for a change.Thanks Ken
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Subject: Re: Progress report
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 16:40:59 -0400
Great news Ken, especially after the bumpy start for your tilapias. It
looks like you're focusing on the whole plant market instead of the
vegetable/produce side. I'm curious what plants you have on special
order?
Adriana
KLOTTTRUE wrote:
>
> Hello everyone,I just wanted to let anybody who cares know,I have already
> started making money sold some tomato plants and quite a few coleus
> arrangements,what Tom and Paula said about rooting cuttings from plants and
> trees is true,I've successfully rooted Celosia and Bradford Pear and some
> wild Azaleas,and I've already recieved some requests to grow plants special
> order. Just thought I would throw some good news for a change.Thanks Ken
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Subject: Re: Farm start
From: "TGTX"
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 18:37:42 -0500
Good Luck to you, Marc, Marcy, and the kids!
Ted
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Subject: Malabar spinach
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 21:24:16 -0400
I seem to recall some of you having good success growing and selling
Malabar Spinach which does well under hot, steamy, summer conditions.
Could somebody verify this and also let me know where to get some seed?
Adriana
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Subject: Re: Progress report
From: KLOTTTRUE
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 21:33:17 EDT
In a message dated 4/20/99 4:50:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
gutierrez-lagatta@home.com writes:
<< Great news Ken, especially after the bumpy start for your tilapias. It
looks like you're focusing on the whole plant market instead of the
vegetable/produce side. I'm curious what plants you have on special
order?
Adriana
>>
Hi Adriana, I have a couple of different types of wild Azaleas growing on my
place,5 foot tall and ten foot wide,with flowers as big as a coffee
cup,beautiful rich pink and a sherbert color,a lot of people around here want
me to grow some for them,also have request for tomatoes and plants,Ferns,and
some black roses,and Coleus arrangements,I'm also experimenting with growing
some Crimson sweet water melons in my aquaponic beds,and rasberries,and
thought I would try grapes on my north wall.Just playing around and having
some fun while I try to learn how to get the most out of this system,do you
have any recommendations on good sellers?anybody? I'll try anything. Thanks
Ken
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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