Aquaponics Digest - Sun 04/25/99
Message 1: TechnoQuest
from dreadlox@cwjamaica.com (michael kent barnett)
Message 2: Re: Raspberries
from dreadlox@cwjamaica.com (michael kent barnett)
Message 3: Re: Jamaica raft system
from dreadlox@cwjamaica.com (michael kent barnett)
Message 4: Jamaica raft system/Hurricanes
from dreadlox@cwjamaica.com (michael kent barnett)
Message 5: Re: Bright Lights Chard
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 6: Re: Start up
from "Capista"
Message 7: Re: Bright Lights Chard
from "TGTX"
Message 8: Re: Jamaica raft system
from "William Brown"
Message 9: Re: Bright Lights Chard
from "William Brown"
Message 10: Re: TechnoQuest
from "Uwe Bruenjes"
Message 11: Re: Bright Lights Chard
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 12: Re: Raspberries
from "Glennert Riedel"
Message 13: Re: TechnoQuest
from "TGTX"
Message 14: Re: Jamaica raft system
from atkindw@cwjamaica.com (david w atkinson)
Message 15: raft system
from LC543119
Message 16: Re: Bright Lights Chard
from "TGTX"
Message 17: Re: Raspberries
from "vpage"
Message 18: Re: TechnoQuest
from "TGTX"
Message 19: Re: TechnoQuest
from William Evans
Message 20: Re: TechnoQuest
from Jim Sealy Jr
Message 21: Re: TechnoQuest
from William Evans
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Subject: TechnoQuest
From: dreadlox@cwjamaica.com (michael kent barnett)
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 01:42:21 -0700
Ted and others,
Ted (never said this out loud before but I admire your BROAD
interests.., wonder if youve done any of this "crazy" stuff have in
mind...)
Wonder if you or others have any recommendations to make re your RE
alternative supply of power. I have frequent brownouts and power
failures. I wonder what others are using for airation equipment etc.??
Will even possible end up trying something like your Savonius rotor
idea, down on the beach. One piece of our land has a spring with a 900m
dropoff, anyone able to recommend any micro hydro power turbines?
Also, I can get a few old lawnmower engines. Has anyone ever tried
converting a lawnmower engine to steam......??
Anyone got a good workable drawing for a RAM pump?
Thanks to all the non techies for their patience....
:)
Mike.
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Subject: Re: Raspberries
From: dreadlox@cwjamaica.com (michael kent barnett)
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 01:44:19 -0700
Sam in Israel,
Ta for the info,
Thats the cool thing about the Net, its not everyday I walk into an
Israeli down here!!!
What about the time before chilling was possible? what would have been
acceptable fish killing practice?
thanks,
Mike
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Subject: Re: Jamaica raft system
From: dreadlox@cwjamaica.com (michael kent barnett)
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 02:31:07 -0700
Thanks Gordon for that info.
What is your opinion, is the raft sytem really that much better? What if
I would aerate the fish effluent offlow before flowing it through a
gravelbed with 1/4 inch gravel? Would the results be the same? Can
someone tell me apart from the aeration of the roots , and ease of
harvest, using the raft sys, why is this the preferred method in some
setups?
The use of gravel would be cheaper for me, as sourcing styrofoam is
proving a hassle...
Thanks for he help. Much appreciated.
LC543119 wrote:
>
> Mikey,
> you can check with Growing Edge magazine my article called hurricane hydro
> described the system I designed in the Cayman Islands for an ex Jamaican
> grower
> Gordon Creaser
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Subject: Jamaica raft system/Hurricanes
From: dreadlox@cwjamaica.com (michael kent barnett)
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 02:49:35 -0700
I just checked out the Growing Edge website.. The suscription is a bit
out of my reach right now.
Could you Gordon or others getting this mag contact me and sorta pont me
inthe way this article was going? Did it speak a bit too about the
greenhouse structures needed to withstand the yearly hurricanes? I am a
bit worried, about the winds.I am thinking of doing something in the
line of "Mittleider" growbeds for outdoors and greenhouses for other
more delicate plants. I am also a bit concerned at how the recycled
polyethlene plastic will stand up to the heat...(UV) and to the winds.
Maybe I would be more at ease to hear of some of you guys here in the
Caribbean an South American rim....
Any experienced warriors out there?
I am interested in getting this mag, but I really cant afford a
suscription right now...
Ta.. Mikey.
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Subject: Re: Bright Lights Chard
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 07:02:54 -0400
William,
Are you saying it hurts to harvest the chards because they are so
pretty? I was toying with setting up one tray in my greenhouse with one
or two specimens of each variety which would be allowed to grow to
maturity, just for show and fun. I suppose when they get TOO big (yes,
Ted, the size of your Texas elephant ears) we could sell the leaves for
plate garnish.
> Grow good, taste better. Very nice plant to look at and therefore hard to
> eat. It is good to harvest the leaves so the plants retain their nice
> leaves.
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Subject: Re: Start up
From: "Capista"
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 07:04:08 -0400
Yes, we have a compressor hooked up to a sprinkler hose in the bottom of
the pond. Also have a waterfall with a circulating pump that will run
continuously.
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Subject: Re: Bright Lights Chard
From: "TGTX"
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 10:00:39 -0500
Adriana,
You wrote:
> maturity, just for show and fun. I suppose when they get TOO big (yes,
> Ted, the size of your Texas elephant ears) we could sell the leaves for
> plate garnish.
Plate garnish is exactly what my chef customers use my chard for. Imagine
Salmon Gravlox with dill and coriander laid on a single leaf of Rainbow
Chard on a china plate. Its a knockout with the white table cloth crowd.
Somebody take a picture and slap it on the cover of Gourmet Magazine.
Also, my chefs will "cheffonade" (sp?) - thats foo-foo frenchy chef talk
for cuttin it inta thin strips- the big or large leaf chard and blanch it
and serve it in various pasta dishes. You can even make pesto out of it -
make it with half chard (don't use all chard, please), half basil, with
pine nuts, olive oil, and parmesean cheese.. Here's one for you
affectionados of the grille- imagine portabella mushrooms cut into small
chunks, provolone cheese, garlic, parmesean cheese, and browned Prosciutto
Italian ham or precooked bacon if you wish- roll this up into a big leaf of
chard and throw it on the grille- drissle with olive oil and/ or butter as
you go- you might have to cut it with a steak knife....the big leaf chard
can be tough without adequate cooking...Light some candles on the table.
Wash the chard appetizer down with Chianti and play those old Carruso
albums on your 78 rpm Victrola....use a lotta hand gestures and kissa you
moma onda cheek... proclaim yourself an honorary Italian for that week .
I really love their cuisine, as you might gather.
I only grow a few sections of my beds with this big leaf chard stuff. I
tried the little leaves in the salad blend, and still throw it in
occassionally as a surprise, but I found that harvesting at the early stage
of 3 or 4 weeks or so was not as "efficient" as I liked, so I let some of
it go, and it turned into a jungle. The neat thing is that you can
readily cut and come back with this variety, until you just exhaust a
particular plant. Always leave some big leaves on the plant and it will
just keep putting out the growth for a VERY LONG time. Sometimes I just
get tired of it and pull it out altogether. Into the worm bed with it! Or
into the fish tank!
Chard is in the spinach family, so I wonder about its oxalic acid content.
Any thoughts on that?
Tedzolo
Honorary Italian
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Subject: Re: Jamaica raft system
From: "William Brown"
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 06:27:25 -0000
1) It helps insulate the water. Here in Hawaii we are getting a 9 degree
temperature differential between foam and white plastic covered tanks during
the spring. I'm interested in seeing the results in the summer when it
gets into the 90Fs. Lettuce grown side by side, one covered with foam the
other covered with white plastic, shows a very obvious preferance for the
foam covered tank.
2) The foam is very easy to work with and light.
I have a source here in Hawaii who brings it in. I'll ask if they would be
prepared to ship it out of state or give up their source.
William Brown mahiwai@cmpmail.com
(aka lettuce@hilo.net)
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Subject: Re: Bright Lights Chard
From: "William Brown"
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 06:32:53 -0000
Yes, somehow these silly plants become my friends. Talking to them to much
I guess.
William Brown mahiwai@cmpmail.com
(aka lettuce@hilo.net)
----- Original Message -----
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
To:
Sent: Sunday, April 25, 1999 11:02 AM
Subject: Re: Bright Lights Chard
>William,
>
>Are you saying it hurts to harvest the chards because they are so
>pretty? I was toying with setting up one tray in my greenhouse with one
>or two specimens of each variety which would be allowed to grow to
>maturity, just for show and fun. I suppose when they get TOO big (yes,
>Ted, the size of your Texas elephant ears) we could sell the leaves for
>plate garnish.
>
>
>> Grow good, taste better. Very nice plant to look at and therefore hard
to
>> eat. It is good to harvest the leaves so the plants retain their nice
>> leaves.
>
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| Message 10 |
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Subject: Re: TechnoQuest
From: "Uwe Bruenjes"
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 99 11:01:52 PDT
Hi Mike,
if you ever think in building your own Savonius rotor, consider the possi=
bility of a cone shaped rotor. With other words, the global shape of such=
a rotor normally is a cylinder. Well, instead of this, let it narrow to =
the top. This way you avoid many mechanical problems.
Uwe
----------
(snipped)
> Will even possible end up trying something like your Savonius rotor
> idea, down on the beach.
> Mike.
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Subject: Re: Bright Lights Chard
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 14:05:58 -0400
Ciao Tedzolo,
What is your price/pound for your plate garnish, please?
> Plate garnish is exactly what my chef customers use my chard for. Imagine
> Salmon Gravlox with dill and coriander laid on a single leaf of Rainbow
> Chard on a china plate.
Foo-foo is good - if it pays da bills...
> Also, my chefs will "cheffonade" (sp?) - thats foo-foo frenchy chef talk
> for cuttin it inta thin strips- the big or large leaf chard and blanch it
> and serve it in various pasta dishes.
This is an extension of foo-foo, why pay a premium for portabellos,
which are jsut overgrown white mushrooms, to then turn around and chop
them up and hide them under a leaf? Oh, I get it, then you can charge
$7.95 for an appetizer...Bull's Blood beet greens at $14 a pound under
salmon carpacio works too...
Here's one for you
> affectionados of the grille- imagine portabella mushrooms cut into small
> chunks, provolone cheese, garlic, parmesean cheese, and browned Prosciutto
> Italian ham or precooked bacon if you wish- roll this up into a big leaf of
> chard and throw it on the grille- drissle with olive oil and/ or butter as
> you go- you might have to cut it with a steak knife...
When you say it is not as "efficient" does that mean that your yield/sq
foot was low?
I
> tried the little leaves in the salad blend, and still throw it in
> occassionally as a surprise, but I found that harvesting at the early stage
> of 3 or 4 weeks or so was not as "efficient" as I liked, so I let some of
> it go, and it turned into a jungle.
Adriana
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Subject: Re: Raspberries
From: "Glennert Riedel"
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 11:51:15 PDT
> I grew strawberries in 3"pipes suspended in my greenhouse with
tilapia water running through. I filled the pipes with pot scrubbers
and !! Great fun Adds...
What was the temperature in your greenhouse ?
Did you cool down the Strawberries plants ?
Glennert
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Subject: Re: TechnoQuest
From: "TGTX"
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 17:28:31 -0500
Hi Uwe! Hire Uwe?
(Thats Texan for hello and stuff. For any civilized place on the planet
that greeting would suggest granting you (Uwe) some kind of employment )
U, U wrote:
> if you ever think in building your own Savonius rotor, consider the
possibility of a cone shaped rotor. With other words, the global shape of
such a rotor normally is a cylinder. Well, instead of this, let it narrow
to the top. This way you avoid many mechanical problems.
>
Ah, yes, I see....the old mechanical problem of processional friction in
gyroscopic systems!
Hmmm.....now Uwe've gone and done it...Now I will have to consider making
the Bernulli and Venturi effects (there's that haunting Italian influence
again) work for a pyramid shaped rotational vortex of metal and wind...Drat
the luck of new perspectives!
O.K.....No biggie...that's no hill for a stepper.
As long as we are solving world hunger, self sufficiency, financial
independence, and environmental problems, we might as well tackle the
technology of energy production in our spare time....Right gang?
Later. Back to the Drawing Board.
Ted
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Subject: Re: Jamaica raft system
From: atkindw@cwjamaica.com (david w atkinson)
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 17:59:02 -0500
The article Hurricane Hydro can be found in The Growing Edge Summer 1996
Vol. 7, No. 4 issue. You may go online and order this back issue rather
than subscribing.
David
>1) It helps insulate the water. Here in Hawaii we are getting a 9 degree
>temperature differential between foam and white plastic covered tanks during
>the spring. I'm interested in seeing the results in the summer when it
>gets into the 90Fs. Lettuce grown side by side, one covered with foam the
>other covered with white plastic, shows a very obvious preferance for the
>foam covered tank.
>2) The foam is very easy to work with and light.
>
>I have a source here in Hawaii who brings it in. I'll ask if they would be
>prepared to ship it out of state or give up their source.
>
>William Brown mahiwai@cmpmail.com
>(aka lettuce@hilo.net)
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Subject: raft system
From: LC543119
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 19:25:29 EDT
Mikey, send me your fax # and I will send you the article
Gordon
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Subject: Re: Bright Lights Chard
From: "TGTX"
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 18:48:02 -0500
Adriana,
Gracci. Gracci.
Du schreibed:
> Ciao Tedzolo,
> What is your price/pound for your plate garnish, please?
O.K. lemme tell you. I make em an offa de cant refuse, see?.
Since dis chard is an overgrown nuisance kinda ting, I let em have it,
see?.
Yeah, I let em have it....for about tree bucks a pound, see, but den I
stuff de box wit about five pounds instead of tree pounds, see, and den,
only charge em for tree pounds, see? Makes me looka lika Patron, O.K.?
I'm selling dem de basil and lettuce anyways, so, it makes dem happy, it
makes me happy, and I get to snoop around de kitchen, taste some soup,
shoot de bull wit the chefs, and flirt wit waitresses, O.K.? You gotta
problem wit dat? I'm juz doin some bidnezz here...O.K?
Capiche?
Tedzolo
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Subject: Re: Raspberries
From: "vpage"
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 18:04:44 -0600
The temperature of the greenhouse can be as high as 28 C in the summer and
as cool as 10C in the winter.I donot know what you mean by cooling the
plants. They had to cope with the weather whatever it was.
I imagine it is cooling to have the roots always in flowing water even
though the water is about 20C
.Victoria
-----Original Message-----
From: Glennert Riedel
To: aquaponics@townsqr.com
Date: Sunday, April 25, 1999 12:50 PM
Subject: Re: Raspberries
>
>> I grew strawberries in 3"pipes suspended in my greenhouse with
>tilapia water running through. I filled the pipes with pot scrubbers
>and !! Great fun Adds...
>
>What was the temperature in your greenhouse ?
>Did you cool down the Strawberries plants ?
>
>Glennert
>
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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Subject: Re: TechnoQuest
From: "TGTX"
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 19:45:38 -0500
Hey Michael,
Are you talkin to me? Are you talkin to me? Are you talkin about my BROAD
interests, or my interests in B.....
Wait just a minute here.
Sorry folks, this has gone too far.
I'm not Italian. Never was. I just love their food. I'm sort of Irish
and Texan and Medi-Okra and stuff like that. I apologize profusely for
this tangential escapade and I promise never to....uh, that is, I promise
to not very often resort to ridiculous excursions into any persona of
Mediterranean origin or descent without due diligence, due process, just
cause, or provocation.
Mike says:
Can I call you Mike?
> Will even possible end up trying something like your Savonius rotor
> idea, down on the beach.
Mike, I'm seeing bits of metal and various parts scattered about in a 50
mile radius after a big hurricane hits the beach...I'm seeing you digging
up 1 inch diameter metal vertical wind shafts using a metal detector as the
seagulls are laughing at you....Are you seeing this with me?
>One piece of our land has a spring with a 900m
> dropoff, anyone able to recommend any micro hydro power turbines?
Mike, 900meters? Would that be 2700 feet of hydraulic head...Half a mile
drop? Would that be a waterfall that is only shown in postcards? If so,
even if it is only a small amount of water falling each moment, there is
more power there than you can imagine if that is accurate. More power than
the delta K in soap box derbies.....Put a turbine on that puppy and call
yourself Tropical Edison Inc.
>From "More Other Homes and Garbage: Designs for Self Sufficient Living", we
learn:
"The most logical way to generate electricity from falling water is with a
turbine; their efficiency is typically in the 80 percent range and their
high rotational speed provides a good mathc to the needs of an electrical
generator. Turbines are classified as either impulse or reaction types.
Impulse turniens use kinetic energy of water squirting out of a nozzle at
high speed to turn the turbine wheel (called the runner). It is usually
turbines of the impulse type that are utilized in high head situations.
The Pelton wheel, the Turgo wheel, and the cross-flow turbine are all
examples of impulse turbines."
"In reaction turbines, part of the available head is converted to kinetic
energy and the rest remains as pressure head. The flow takes place under
pressure, which means the whole unit is enclosed in a case as oppose to the
open housing of an impulse turbine. Reaction turnines are classified as
the Francis desing or propeller design and are useful in low to medium head
installations."
"Independent Power Developers, Ind. Rt. 3, Box 174H, Sandpoint, Idaho,
83864 manufactures a 4 inch Pelton wheel. The turbine is directly coupled
to a 32 volt dc generator which can produce up to 2000 watts or about 1400
KWH per month. The turbine-generator set sold for about $1000, while a
complet installation with turbine, generator, batteries, inverter, and pipe
ran about $5000." (This was long, long ago, in a galaxy, far, far away)
Another manufacturer of Pelton Wheels is Small Hydroelectric Systems &
Equipment (15220 S. R. 530, Arlington, Washington 98223). The have been
producing 4.5, 9, and f18 inch wheels designed for outputs from a few
hundred watts to 50,000 Watts.
Other souches of Pelton wheels include Alaska Wind & Water Power (P.O. Box
G, Chugiak, Alaska 99567); Pumps, Pipe and Power (Kingston Village, Austin,
Nevada 89310); and Elektro GmbH (St. Gallerstrasse 27, Winterhur,
Switzerland).
If you get a catalog from Electro, please have them send me a bottle of
Kirstwasser...not for me, of course, for my...uh....St. Bernard..
James Leffel and Company (Springfield Ohio, 45501) has been manufacturing
reaction turbines since 1862. Their Hoppes Hydroelectric System is well
suited to low-power applications.
There is a miniturbine available from Canyon Industries (5346 Mosquito Lake
Road, Deming, Wyoming, 98244), called the Hydromite, it will produce 150 to
700 watts with flows of 30 to 40 cfm on modest heads of 15 to 34 feet. The
turbine cost less than $500.
Other sources of reaction turbines include G&A Associates (233 Katonah
Ave., Katonah, NY 10536); Barber Hydraulic Turbines Ltd (Barber Point, P.O.
Box 340, Prot Colborne, Ontario, Canada, L3K5W1); Jyoti ltd. (R.C. Dutt Rd,
Baroda---390 005, India); and land and Lesiure Services, Inc. (Priory Lane,
St. Thomas, Launceston, Cornwall, England).
Also, try Ossberger-Turbinenfabrik D-8832 Weissenberg i. Bay, P.O. Box 425
Bayern, Germany which manufactured the Michell (Banki) cross flow turbine.
They had units producing from 8.5 KW up to 220 KW and they built each unit
in accordance with the local conditions.
> Also, I can get a few old lawnmower engines. Has anyone ever tried
> converting a lawnmower engine to steam......??
>
Mike, I never tried converting lawnmower engines to steam. Or coal,
methane, butane, propane, or zero point energy. In fact, I don't own a
lawnmower and therefore, I just don't mow the lawn, much to the
consternation of overly tidy neighbors with too much time on their hands.
> Anyone got a good workable drawing for a RAM pump?
Please try back issues of Mother Earth magazine....You'll find em there.
Arrevia Derci.
Tedzolo
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Subject: Re: TechnoQuest
From: William Evans
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 18:07:13 -0700
2700' * .433 pounds/ft=1700 psi!!!!
anyone able to recommend any micro hydro power turbines?
>
> Mike, 900meters? Would that be 2700 feet of hydraulic head...Half a mile
> drop?
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| Message 20 |
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Subject: Re: TechnoQuest
From: Jim Sealy Jr
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 20:32:09 -0500
With 1700 PSI, he should be able to use a conventional hydraulic
motor/10 KW generator combo as long as it's stainless and he runs a
filter in line. Lots cheaper than your standard turbines. That's in the
same range as most of our tractor powered equipment. Surely that 900
meters was a typo. If not, he can quit worrying about power, even with
_very_ low water flow rates.
Jim
William Evans wrote:
>
>
>
> 2700' * .433 pounds/ft=1700 psi!!!!
> anyone able to recommend any micro hydro power turbines?
> >
> > Mike, 900meters? Would that be 2700 feet of hydraulic head...Half a mile
> > drop?
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| Message 21 |
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Subject: Re: TechnoQuest
From: William Evans
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 18:51:23 -0700
ya w/ 90 meteres have have 170psi still free...
Jim Sealy Jr wrote:
>
> With 1700 PSI, he should be able to use a conventional hydraulic
> motor/10 KW generator combo as long as it'
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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