Aquaponics Digest - Sun 07/04/99
Message 1: new person needs advice
from Bagelhole1
Message 2: Sprayers
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 3: Re: new person needs advice
from William Evans
Message 4: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Fri 07/02/99
from Gail Hall
Message 5: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Fri 07/02/99
from Gail Hall
Message 6: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Fri 07/02/99
from Gail Hall
Message 7: Re: new person needs advice
from Bagelhole1
Message 8: Re: Sprayers
from "William Brown"
Message 9: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Fri 07/02/99
from "William Brown"
Message 10: Advice on catfish/aeroponics?
from Bagelhole1
Message 11: Re: Sprayers
from William Evans
Message 12: Re: Advice on catfish/aeroponics?
from Gordon Watkins
Message 13: Sprayers
from Peggy & Emmett
Message 14: Re: Sprayers
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 15: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Fri 07/02/99
from Dave Miller
Message 16: Bug zappers (was Re: Aquaponics Digest - Fri 07/02/99)
from Gordon Watkins
Message 17: Re: Bug zappers (was Re: Aquaponics Digest - Fri 07/02/99)
from William Evans
Message 18: Re: Sprayers
from "Jim Sealy Jr."
Message 19: Re: Advice on catfish/aeroponics?
from Bagelhole1
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Subject: new person needs advice
From: Bagelhole1
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 01:42:14 EDT
Hi,
I am beginning to start the work on making my home a model of
low-tech sustainability in an urban (San Francisco) environment. What I am
starting may be good for students to also do. Its incorporating fish farming
with vegetable growing inside a low-cost greenhouse.
We are digging a long trench about 3 feet deep 3feet wide for the fish and a
separation for the fingerlings. A solar pump will pump the fish water to
tubes that will soak the root balls of the plants suspended in cups held by
vertical structures and back to the fish (oxygenated and cleaned). I hope to
feed the fish worms from the composting toilet, which I also hope to build
soon. Right now, I'm thinking catfish.
I have no experience doing this, though I have talked to Anna Edey who has
seen this in N. Carolina and has experience with greenhouses (see book
Solviva), and others. Wish me luck and feel free to send me any advise you
may have, thanks.
Tom Osher
http://bagelhole.hypermart.net
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Subject: Sprayers
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Sun, 04 Jul 1999 04:37:42 -0400
As part of my solution to my bug problems I've been looking into
alternatives to upgrade my sprayers from the cheap $20 garden store
tanks. I wasn't getting good coverage especially under tatsoi leaves
and deep in the mizuna beds. After consultation and extensive web
searching for alternatives I ordered the Atomist from Hummerts. It does
make a very nice mist and has a powerful blower, but unfortunately I
hate it. It's a product which obviously was designed to be stationary
but they threw a strap on it and added a too-short tube and now it's
"portable" There is no comfortable way to hold it while spraying
without blocking the air intake. Because the tube is short and the tank
is 12" wide you contort your back to get the spray pointed in the right
direction while getting through the aisles. To boot, it leaves a lot of
spray (8 oz) in the bottom of the container. They price was OK at $180
but I think it's going back in the 10-day return window.
My alternatives, based several more sessions on the web are:
-- A regular backpack sprayer which may have better nozzles and power
than the 2 gallon tanks I'm using - Shindaiwa or Solo are the brands I'm
considering, local parts availability is an issue with the Shindaiwa
-- The Ulva Fan, also from Hummerts which looks weird and awkward ($300)
-- Something called a Hurricane from Hydro-Gardens, not quite as awkward
as the Atomist but still does not look designed for 20+ minutes of
hand-held use ($200)
-- Blower/sprayers - Solo or Stihl make what is essentially a leaf
blower which also sprays. I've been told by my extension agent that
they work well but at $500-575 they exceed my threshold of $ pain. I
also don't care for the noise.
-- I've heard about electrostatic sprayers which spray electrically
charged droplets. When they hit the plant they gives 100% coverage of
the plant surface. Option one was PGT in Georgia. The smallest unit was
$1,700. Somebody called Spectrum makes a $300 electrostatic head which
is designed to go on standard backpack sprayers.
http://www.wantabe.com/spectrum/product.html
-- Black and Decker makes a cordless power sprayer priced at $100 with
adjustable nozzles ranging from spray to mist and a 25 foot range. I
have yet to locate one but have an e-mail in to them. The tank has
wheels and a nice handle to pull it. In addition it has 6 feet of hose
and a rechargeable battery good for 9 gallons. You can see it at
http://www.blackanddecker.com/outdoorsandpowertools/outdoors/index.html
Does anybody have any experience with any of these products?
In my dream greenhouse I would like to put in a fogging system whereby I
can drop the curtains in the evening and turn on the foggers with a
timer and completely engulf the space with the flick of a switch.
Bye-bye bad boys! Aren't dreams great?
Any input that can help me cut through the fog on this issue will be
greatly appreciated.
Adriana
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Subject: Re: new person needs advice
From: William Evans
Date: Sun, 04 Jul 1999 06:04:29 -0700
How are you planning to fish the worms out of the compostoilet? Why not
just use comercial fish food?
billevans
Bagelhole I hope to
> feed the fish worms from the composting toilet, which I also hope to build
> soon.
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Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Fri 07/02/99
From: Gail Hall
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 08:46:24 -0700
>Watercress grew pretty well in the hot weather...this was last year...I
>tried several varieties...I like the taste and the growth....but I think i=
t
>needs to be marketed separately...sort of like marketing your single produ=
ct
>of beet leaf.
>
>See ya.
>
>tedzo.
Hi, Ted and others,
Here in Carlton, Oregon (and this "summer" is being very cool and even
rainy so doesn't exactly count as an indicator), I grow watercress year
round. Restaurants like it, I can add some to a greens mix when short on
other stuff, it grows rapidly in summer (temps up to 90=B0) and much slower=
during the winter (I keep my temp at 50=B0 min). I like it very much
myself, soups, sauces, and salads, works well as a garnish as a
refreshing alternative to parsley.
Ted: you mentioned several varieties. I'd like to know sources for other
varieties. I have planted seed from several suppliers: it is always the
same.
Gail Hall, Tender Greens
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Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Fri 07/02/99
From: Gail Hall
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 08:47:35 -0700
>Hi All,
>This may of course sound silly but has anyone tried using
>electronic bug repellent machines? I have heard of some
>work with ultra sonic, ion generators, electromagnetic
>field generators etc. and wonder if any have tried anything=20
>like this? I wonder if a very safe to humans low amperage
>charge in grow beds might might annoy the little bugs enough
>to make them go elsewhere? If it would work the plants could be
>sprayed with a little water to make them surface conductive.
>Just a thought ...
>Kevin
>
Kevin, I've wondered about that too. Anyone tried these. Results?
Gail
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Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Fri 07/02/99
From: Gail Hall
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 08:50:08 -0700
>I recently tried to order a package of the Chinese Water Spinach from
>Richter's (www.richters.com) and was told it was illegal to ship seed of
>this invasive species from Canada into the US.
>
>Charlie
There are oriental seed suppliers in the US that have this seed. I can't
remember the names just now, but can get them if you are interested.
I have tried this plant with little interest or success. It doesn't taste
very good, is hard to pick, and doesn't do very well with the nutrient
that is fine for the other greens I grow. It isn't even particularly
pretty so that it could be used for a garnish. For fish, I don't know.
Gail
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Subject: Re: new person needs advice
From: Bagelhole1
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 13:37:49 EDT
In a message dated 7/4/99 2:00:43 PM, williamevans@home.com writes:
< feed the fish worms from the composting toilet, which I also hope to build
> soon.
>>
I'm going for synergism. The worms will reproduce, the compost will not
smell, it should work. I don't want to be reliant on any outside sources, if
possible.
Kindly,
Tom O (bagelhole1)
http://bagelhole.hypermart.net
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Subject: Re: Sprayers
From: "William Brown"
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 07:23:24 -1000
Thanks for the great research. I suddenly find myself in the market for a
large capacity motorized sprayer. One suggestion, most back pack sprayers
use 60 PSI which is barely adequate for our purposes. The Black & Decker
only uses 20 PSI and 9 gallons probably won't cover 4000 sq ft. Also how
long does it take to recharge?
The electrostatic sprayers sound most interesting. It's devilishly hard to
get good coverage underneath the leaves where the pests are generally
concentrated. I believe they make a fog like mist which is very good.
I really like my Shindaiwa backpack sprayer and I have heard from the local
service center that many people who bought SOLO returned them for the
Shindaiwa. I have had no service requirements for my Shindaiwas in over two
years. It too leaves a bunch of liquid in the bottom. This is probably by
design to avoid jamming the sprayer. You can mail order any parts you may
need in advance.
The others I have no experience with but I will check them out. The best I
found locally is the Spotlyte Aplicart. Battery powered sprayer with a 14G
tank which you can change that rests on a hand cart with big tires. 60PSI,
sprays 20 feet or adjusts to low volume mist. 20 foot hose, and sprays for
upto 6 hours on a single charge. Here in Hawaii the cost is $444, you
should be able to find one for $200 to $300 hundred at your local commercial
ag supplier. Unfortunatley their website is yet to be constructed.
William Brown mahiwai@cmpmail.com
(aka lettuce@hilo.net)
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Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Fri 07/02/99
From: "William Brown"
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 07:52:00 -1000
The variety grown here in Hawaii has a smaller leaf than the one sold in
catalogs. It also has a little more heat and flavor. I don't know if seed is
available but I will check. And I don't know if I could send you any.
Check with your extension service to see what the requirements are for
shipping live watercress plants to your area.
William Brown mahiwai@cmpmail.com
(aka lettuce@hilo.net)
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Subject: Advice on catfish/aeroponics?
From: Bagelhole1
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 14:00:37 EDT
Hi,
I'm new here, I'm trying to grow catfish in a trench inside a
greenhouse with a solar pump to send the water up thru tubes into plants with
their rootballs in cup-like forms on a vertical stand, and back into the
trench, oxygenated and cleaned. I'm new to this also, living in San Francisco.
Its an attempt to be a model for others in becoming food self-reliant in a
low-tech, inexpensive way. One thing, I lack besides experience is knowledge,
which is obviously not a great thing, but time is running out, because this
is for community contingency for y2k.
So I am hoping that someone would kindly share any info to make up for the
above handicaps to help in the success of this endeavor. Thanks in advance,
Tom O
http://bagelhole.hypermart.net
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Subject: Re: Sprayers
From: William Evans
Date: Sun, 04 Jul 1999 11:44:02 -0700
Ive thot this one over myself,,, determined that Id only be happy w/ my
own mondo design something like a 50 gal tank w/ a small well pmp
attaached something on the order or 3-400 gal per hour...TANK would be
stoked w/ fert /adulterant of choice. Then simply a matter of attasching
hose and spray nozzle and letting er rip.. The pump w/ have to be able
to take backpressure from shutoff nozzle on end of hose, so dont need
pumpthat willpower hoover dam, so to speak. This design eliminates lots
of small holes that would clog in conventional sprayers, not so
sensitive to clogging.
billevans
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Subject: Re: Advice on catfish/aeroponics?
From: Gordon Watkins
Date: Sun, 04 Jul 1999 13:39:13 -0500
Hello Tom and welcome to the list,
A couple of thoughts:
Catfish may not be your best choice for an aquaponic system, particularly if
you're aiming for higher stocking densities. Most folks are using tilapia which
are much more forgiving, especially for beginners. For what reason have you
chosen
catfish?
Past discussions of vertical grow towers indicated problems with light
penetration at the lower levels.
In an earlier email you mentioned feeding worms from your composting toilet.
Is there any danger of E. coli or other undesirable organisms being
transmited to
the fish? I also grow worms which I feed to my tilapia but I have concluded that
they are too valuable to use as a primary feed and I use them mostly to
condition
my breeders. Also, it's difficult to produce the volume of worms needed for the
sole feed for very many fish unless you get pretty elaborate with worm
production.
I have a system similar to the one you mention, with fish growing in a long
vat beneath the walkway, except that instead of using vertical stands for crop
production, I crop an adjacent bed of gravel. Water and solids are pumped to the
surface of the bed, percolates through and gravity-flows back into the vat,
purified and oxygenated. My system is modeled after one developed at N.C. State
and details are available in a dissertation, "Performance of an Integrated
Aquaculture-Olericulture System as Influenced by Component Ratio", by Mark
Richard
McMurtry, which can be purchased from UMI Dissertation Services,
1-800-521-0600,
Order #9023395
Good luck,
Gordon Watkins
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Subject: Sprayers
From: Peggy & Emmett
Date: Sun, 04 Jul 1999 14:54:01 -0400
Adriana, the Black & Decker sprayer is available at Home Depot for $88.oo.
It comes with two tips, cone and fan. The hose is six feet long. It's
advertised to pump through nine gallons (three fillings). Since it's
standard B & D rechargeable you can purchase additional batteries. The
sprayer is said to be able to spray up to 25 feet.
I personally use a Flo-Master pro plus. It's a two gallon tank. The
material to be sprayed is added to the tank, the top screwed on, connect to
the garden hose via a nipple and quick disconnect (comes with it) and,
voila, the solution is mixed and pressurized to forty pounds. Easy no
pumping.
Readily reaches the top of my tall grapefruit trees. Also at Home Depot for
$28.99. ...Emmett
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Subject: Re: Sprayers
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Sun, 04 Jul 1999 14:59:38 -0400
Funny you should say that, Home Depot here in Sarasota had never heard
of it. I'll try again but William's observations regarding psi are
grounds for concern. Thanks Emmett.
How's your back doing?
Adriana
> Adriana, the Black & Decker sprayer is available at Home Depot for $88.oo.
> It comes with two tips, cone and fan. The hose is six feet long. It's
> advertised to pump through nine gallons (three fillings).
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Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Fri 07/02/99
From: Dave Miller
Date: Sun, 04 Jul 1999 15:27:21 -0400
The only thing I know about bug zappers is that they actually attract
bugs, meaning they pull bugs from other places like a pheremone would.
This may not hold true in a fairly closed environment like a greenhouse.
--
Dave
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A "green" home remodeler
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A man out standing in his field
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Subject: Bug zappers (was Re: Aquaponics Digest - Fri 07/02/99)
From: Gordon Watkins
Date: Sun, 04 Jul 1999 16:30:00 -0500
One of the most elegant solutions I've seen is a bug light suspended over a
fish pond with either a small fan directed downwards or a rotating piece of
fishing line to blow or knock the attracted insects into the mouths of the
hungry fish below. Another convincing argument for fish in the greenhouse!
Gordon Watkins
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Subject: Re: Bug zappers (was Re: Aquaponics Digest - Fri 07/02/99)
From: William Evans
Date: Sun, 04 Jul 1999 15:25:57 -0700
...my take was more electroSonic like "audible", not bug lites per se.
to steer back on track , ....altho can confirm reviews i recall
...re:bug lites suport your own..that they attract the flyin critterz.
wondered 'bout the audible deterrents meself as a neighbor raises homin
pigeonz( they crap alll over MY roof). oh well
billevans
Gordon Watkins wrote:
>
> One of the most elegant solutions I've seen is a bug light suspended over a
> fish pond with either a small fan d
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Subject: Re: Sprayers
From: "Jim Sealy Jr."
Date: Sun, 04 Jul 1999 20:56:09 -0500
Anywhere that we have electricity I use an airless paint sprayer. Just drop
the hose
in whatever size tank of solution you want to spray, adjust the spray pattern to
however you want from a stream you can hit 50 ft up in the pecan trees, down
to a
fine mist you can fog a bunch of seedlings with from 4 feet away.
Jim
Sometimes ya just 'gotta' color outside the lines.
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Subject: Re: Advice on catfish/aeroponics?
From: Bagelhole1
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 23:00:02 EDT
Dear Gordon,
Thanks for your response. I was told that catfish are
hearty, reproduce quickly, and grow large fast, that they taste excellent and
that 40 big ones could be grown in a 55 gal barrel.
The type of composter that Anna Edey talks of in her book, Solviva, the
earthworms reproduce prodigiously and quickly turn the humanure into usable,
fluffy, compost. I don't envision having to pick thru offal to grab worms,
but that there would be an abundance of worms in the composted material as
opposed to the fresher stuff.
She mentioned that she had seen what you describe in N. Carolina with the
slanted beds above the fish. I am chosing to use the vertical which I have
seen which grows in such a way so that plants are moved lower as they grow
bigger, so as to not obscure the sun from the other plants.
Now, maybe Tilapia would be better, I still don't know. Also, I don't know
yet where to buy either the Tilapia or the catfish or how much they will
cost. Also, I intend to have a separate trough for the fingerlings to grow as
I read somewhere about growing fish in a barrel. What do you think?
Appreciatively,
Tom O (bagelhole1)
http://bagelhole.hypermart.net
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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