Aquaponics Digest - Mon 07/05/99
Message 1: Re: Sprayers
from Sam Levy
Message 2: Re: Sprayers
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 3: Re: Advice on catfish/aeroponics?
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 4: Re: Sprayers
from "Jim Sealy Jr."
Message 5: Cornell site down?
from Brian Gracia
Message 6: Re: Cornell site down?
from Peggy & Emmett
Message 7: Re: Cornell site down?
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 8: Re: new person needs advice
from "vpage"
Message 9: Re: monitoring
from "vpage"
Message 10: Re: Tilapia feed - Chinese water spinach
from "vpage"
Message 11: Re: new person needs advice
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 12: Re: new person needs advice
from "vpage"
Message 13: Solviva, was Re: new person needs advice
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 14: Cornell site
from Peggy & Emmett
Message 15: Learning fast about fish farming
from Bagelhole1
Message 16: Re: Gravel wash
from Peggy & Emmett
Message 17: Re: Financial Modelling
from Peggy & Emmett
Message 18: RE: Advice on catfish/aeroponics?
from "Ronald W. Brooks"
Message 19: RE: Learning fast about fish farming
from "Ronald W. Brooks"
Message 20: Re: Learning fast about fish farming
from "vpage"
Message 21: Re: RE: Learning fast about fish farming
from Bagelhole1
Message 22: Re: Advice on catfish/aeroponics?
from "vpage"
Message 23: Re: Advice on catfish/aeroponics?
from "grizzly"
Message 24: RE: Learning fast about fish farming
from "Ronald W. Brooks"
Message 25: RE: RE: Learning fast about fish farming
from "Ronald W. Brooks"
Message 26: RE: RE: Learning fast about fish farming
from "Ronald W. Brooks"
Message 27: Re: RE: RE: Learning fast about fish farming
from Bagelhole1
Message 28: Re: Learning fast about fish farming
from "grizzly"
Message 29: Aquaponics
from "Mike Senger"
Message 30: Re: Advice on catfish/aeroponics?
from "vpage"
Message 31: Re: Learning fast about fish farming
from "vpage"
Message 32: Re: Aquaponics
from "vpage"
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| Message 1 |
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Subject: Re: Sprayers
From: Sam Levy
Date: Sun, 04 Jul 1999 22:59:12 PDT
Adriana--
there were at one time a number of misters available for poultry growers to
spray vaccines--years ago when i had to vaccinate 1,200 sq meter poultry
houses, i found them easy to calibrate & handle.
just a thought for an alternative search option.
sam
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| Message 2 |
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Subject: Re: Sprayers
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 05:52:23 -0400
Thanks Jim,
>From the start I wondered if you could spray a thin solution with paint
sprayers as opposed to thick paint. Are there any considerations
regading the spray gun or nozzles or is standard equipment OK?
Adriana
> Anywhere that we have electricity I use an airless paint sprayer.
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| Message 3 |
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Subject: Re: Advice on catfish/aeroponics?
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 06:09:58 -0400
Tom,
My advice to you is to read, read, read all that you can before spending
money if you're serious about setting up more than just a hobby system.
When you get involved in aquaponics you are really getting involved in
two distinct operations, each with lots of alternatives to consider. Do
a web search on the following subjects:
--Aquaponics
--Aquaculture
--Hydroponics
--Tilapia
In the area of aquaponics, be sure to read the web sites about S&S
Aquafarms and Jim Rakocy's operation in the Virgin Islands. They are
both very different operations. For hydroponics look up Hydroponics
University and go to Crop King's web site. After you've done lots of
reading you will have some more specific questions we can help you
with. Don't
You may also want to check out a few publications such as Growing Edge
Magazine, Aquaponics Journal and the book Home Aquaculture by Steven Van
Gorder. Both of the magazines have web sites which offer additional
information on these subjects.
Adriana Gutierrez
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Subject: Re: Sprayers
From: "Jim Sealy Jr."
Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 09:58:58 -0500
Standard commercial equipment works ok. I use a high pressure adjustable system
which compensates for viscosity differences. Not one of the little Wagner type
units. If you use one of the little units, a nozzle meant for stain should
work ok.
For a stationary misting system a set of spray buggy nozzles and a high pressure
110V pump or 12V pump and battery should work well.
Jim
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| Message 5 |
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Subject: Cornell site down?
From: Brian Gracia
Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 13:28:10 -0500
Hello,
I wanted to surf the Cornell CEA site, but I could not get in. I am not
sure if my link is bad. Can someone check their link, and if it is good,
can you send it to me.
Thanks,
Brian Gracia
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Subject: Re: Cornell site down?
From: Peggy & Emmett
Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 15:40:12 -0400
What"s CEA stand for?
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| Message 7 |
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Subject: Re: Cornell site down?
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 15:52:36 -0400
Emmett,
CEA stands for "controlled environment agriculture", a fancy term for a
greenhouse. They had a fabulous site with day by day photgraphs and
lots of equipment information for lettuce called the CEA Hydroponic
Lettuce Production Handbook at URL:
www.cals.cornell.edu/cals/dept/flori/lettuce/media.html
They must have moved it and not told anybody. There was another similar
site for spinach but it was not quite as good.
Adriana
> What"s CEA stand for?
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| Message 8 |
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Subject: Re: new person needs advice
From: "vpage"
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 11:54:49 -0600
The book "Solviva"...is it worth the investment for someone already in
aquaponics and organic gardening or is it introductory? Very pricey here in
Canada...
Victoria
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Subject: Re: monitoring
From: "vpage"
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 12:01:04 -0600
Thanks:}
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Subject: Re: Tilapia feed - Chinese water spinach
From: "vpage"
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 12:05:42 -0600
It was a jungle in weeks!! One plant can fill 10' raceway to overflowing.
Kepp trimming and the ends multiply. The young shoots are delicious cooked
in your favourite spinach ways.
Victoria
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| Message 11 |
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Subject: Re: new person needs advice
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 16:22:00 -0400
Victoria,
I wouldn't spend the money. Most of the book is the author's quest for
herself. It is quite idealistic and my guess is that you are way beyond
the book. This is one I would recommend only if your public library has
it.
Adriana
> The book "Solviva"...is it worth the investment for someone already in
> aquaponics and organic gardening or is it introductory? Very pricey here in
> Canada...
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| Message 12 |
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Subject: Re: new person needs advice
From: "vpage"
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 14:21:34 -0600
My pocket book and I thank you. V ><>
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| Message 13 |
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Subject: Solviva, was Re: new person needs advice
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 15:39:28 -0500
The following comment and email information are forwarded from the IBS list,
for anyone who's interested in what Anna Eddy is currently pursuing who
might want to contact her directly. Paula
---------------------------------------------
Encoding: 30 TEXT
Approved-By: Jacky Foo
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 13:27:20 +0200
Reply-To: "IBSnet: General Forum on Integrated Bio-Systems"
Sender: "IBSnet: General Forum on Integrated Bio-Systems"
From: Jacky Foo
Subject: [IBS-GEN] chicken in greenhouses
To: ET-W1@SEGATE.SUNET.SE
# 1 - From: Gil Friend
# 2 - From: Sustainable Strategies
# 1 --------forwarded
From: Gil Friend
PetersFarm wrote:
>I remember reading in Mother Earth News and/or the Boston Globe
>about an amazing lady on Martha's Vineyard, Massachusetts, who
>had a very successful greenhouse business, heated and fertilized by
>chickens (housed at one end) and rabbits (at the other). I think it
>was called Sol Viva.
Sol Viva (or close to that) is right.
Anna Eddy I believe
# 2----------forwarded
From: Sustainable Strategies
The Solviva greenhouse is described in Anna Edey's book, Solviva (available
for $35+ from her at: solviva@vineyard.net). Anna has moved on to other
things and the greenhouse is no longer in operation.
Ecos/Sustainable Strategies
Ecological Engineering, Planning and Design
Concord, Massachusetts USA 01742
Web site: www.ecological-engineering.com
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Subject: Cornell site
From: Peggy & Emmett
Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 17:05:33 -0400
Thanks Adriana.
It dawned on me while perusing the site and encountering several closed
portals that its summer vacation for schools.
It'll most likely be up again in Sept. ...Em
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Subject: Learning fast about fish farming
From: Bagelhole1
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 17:20:12 EDT
Hi Paul,
Thanks for your response, btw I don't think you rambled at
all. Everything you say is quite helpful. You have helped me decide for
catfish because of the temp. factor for tilapia.
The compost toilet by Anna Edey should produce tons of worms after I buy the
first batch. I live in SF so too much heat is not a problem that can't be
handled easy with ventilation. The fish will live in plastic lined trenches
on the floor of the greenhouse. The question is how big do they need to be? I
will buy a solar pump with a battery. I can leave parts of it open for insect
pollination.
As far as y2k, try this metaphor: There is a waterfall at da enda dat river
da Nile. No one can hear or see it, but we will all go over it 1/1/2000. It
may be small but the possibility of it being large is not remote enough to
ignore.
Kindly,
Tom O
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Subject: Re: Gravel wash
From: Peggy & Emmett
Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 17:30:06 -0400
At 05:15 PM 7/1/99 -0700, you wrote:
> So what was the methodology? bleach ,and deterrgent roughly?
>billevans
>
The pea gravel came came from Alabama. While it appears white, when hit
with high pressure water, a yellow runoff is evident. After I put it in
the beds and stood back to see how it compared to the unwashed pile, there
was quite a difference. I've concluded, perhaps erroneously, that since it
came from ancient river beds I was washing away silt.
I used chlorine bleach on the beds in my engineering model. However since
I'm going for organic certification on this, Phase 2, I will be using
hydrogen peroxide.
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Subject: Re: Financial Modelling
From: Peggy & Emmett
Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 17:35:34 -0400
Allan, contact me directly.
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Subject: RE: Advice on catfish/aeroponics?
From: "Ronald W. Brooks"
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 18:30:18 -0400
-> Now, maybe Tilapia would be better, I still don't know. Also, I
-> don't know
-> yet where to buy either the Tilapia or the catfish or how much they will
-> cost. Also, I intend to have a separate trough for the
-> fingerlings to grow as
-> I read somewhere about growing fish in a barrel. What do you think?
->
The aquaculture magazines buyer's guide has tons of fingerling suppliers .
email me private with what you decide to raise and I will send off a listing
of who is selling
Ron
The One Who Walks Two Paths
webmaster@vraquaponics.8m.com
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Subject: RE: Learning fast about fish farming
From: "Ronald W. Brooks"
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 18:30:20 -0400
->
-> first batch. I live in SF so too much heat is not a problem that
-> can't be
-> handled easy with ventilation. The fish will live in plastic
-> lined trenches
-> on the floor of the greenhouse. The question is how big do they
-> need to be? I
-> will buy a solar pump with a battery. I can leave parts of it
-> open for insect
-> pollination.
In a greenhouse in SF I don't think Tilapia would be a problem as long as
you can keep the water temp at 75 or above. in the 80's for maximum growth
rate.
Ron
The One Who Walks Two Paths
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| Message 20 |
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Subject: Re: Learning fast about fish farming
From: "vpage"
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 17:54:21 -0600
I am with Ron on this. Tilapia are very, very forgiving, fruitful and yummy.
Clearly you will get better growth in the summer but they will hold their
own in winter in a greenhouse. If you can, during construction, run weeping
tile with warm air (solar) under the trenches you will cut your heating
bills considerably. Re-gather the heat from the top of your greenhouse and
run it into this weeping tile. Float plants in baskets (firm mesh) on your
tanks to retain heat. The baskets are to keep the fish form eating them. Set
up a pulley system to lift baskets so that you can work with the fish.
When you dig your trenches put foam insulation vertically down the sides of
your greenhouse and into the ground and less heat will be lost.
How big your trenches are depends on land base, oxygen supply (the plants
help a lot with this). Intensive farming counts on 1lb/cubic foot of
water.-Ron, correct me if this is wrong.
Keep asking questions and we will remember hard learned lessons..
Victoria
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Subject: Re: RE: Learning fast about fish farming
From: Bagelhole1
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 19:59:04 EDT
In a message dated 7/6/99 12:21:01 AM, orchid@kellnet.com writes:
<>
Ron,
Thanks for your response. keeping the temp. 75 or above could be a
problem, since I want to keep this as low-tech and simple as possible.
That's why I'm considering catfish. What 2 paths do you walk?
Tom
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Subject: Re: Advice on catfish/aeroponics?
From: "vpage"
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 17:58:08 -0600
Once you have tilapia you can organize some simple breeding yourself. A
separate tank for your brood fish-excellent water and a way to take out the
fry-drain down without losing them. Talk to Ron, Look at the webpage for
Auburn University..
Victoria
The One Who Walks Two Paths
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Subject: Re: Advice on catfish/aeroponics?
From: "grizzly"
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 21:02:07 -0400
This is a test,is anyone reading me?
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Subject: RE: Learning fast about fish farming
From: "Ronald W. Brooks"
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 20:34:59 -0400
-> [mailto:aquaponics]On Behalf Of vpage
-> Sent: Monday, July 05, 1999 7:54 PM
-> To: aquaponics@townsqr.com
-> help a lot with this). Intensive farming counts on 1lb/cubic foot of
-> water.-Ron, correct me if this is wrong.
-> Keep asking questions and we will remember hard learned lessons..
-> Victoria
That is the limit I would use without adding supplemental O2 injection
system to your tanks and intensive filtering techniques
Ron
The One Who Walks Two Paths
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Subject: RE: RE: Learning fast about fish farming
From: "Ronald W. Brooks"
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 20:35:03 -0400
-> -----Original Message-----
-> From: aquaponics
-> [mailto:aquaponics]On Behalf Of Bagelhole1
-> Sent: Monday, July 05, 1999 7:59 PM
-> To: aquaponics@townsqr.com
-> Subject: Re: RE: Learning fast about fish farming
->
-> Ron,
-> Thanks for your response. keeping the temp. 75 or above could be a
-> problem, since I want to keep this as low-tech and simple as possible.
-> That's why I'm considering catfish. What 2 paths do you walk?
->
-> Tom
->
if you want to keep it low tech you might consider adding chickens and
rabbits and water walls. I had one such , like the Solviva , in Indiana and
was able to keep veggies going all year round. Plus remember water acts like
a huge heat sink.
Try to find a copy of " Fish Farming in Your Solar Greenhouse " by William
Head and Jon Splane. It is a good reference for it's time on growing fish in
a solar greenhouse. They were able to grow Tilapia in the harsh Oregon
winters without supplemental heating.
Ron
The One Who Walks Two Paths
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Subject: RE: RE: Learning fast about fish farming
From: "Ronald W. Brooks"
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 20:35:05 -0400
-> -----Original Message-----
-> From: aquaponics
-> [mailto:aquaponics]On Behalf Of Bagelhole1
-> Sent: Monday, July 05, 1999 7:59 PM
-> To: aquaponics@townsqr.com
-> Subject: Re: RE: Learning fast about fish farming
->
->
-> Ron,What 2 paths do you walk?
->
-> Tom
->
Between the White world and the Native American
Ron
The One Who Walks Two Paths
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Subject: Re: RE: RE: Learning fast about fish farming
From: Bagelhole1
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 21:44:11 EDT
In a message dated 7/6/99 2:30:21 AM, orchid@kellnet.com writes:
<>
Thats a tricky balancing act
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Subject: Re: Learning fast about fish farming
From: "grizzly"
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 22:00:03 -0400
What is a weeping tile? Thanks... griz
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Subject: Aquaponics
From: "Mike Senger"
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 20:36:34 -0700
I have a system here in Arizona like you describe. I have lettuce =
growing in 4" vertical sewer pipe columns packed with lightweight =
pumice. Results are mixed in Arizona summer heat due to exposure of the =
plants to hot dry winds and filtered but hot sun. I had better results =
in cooler weather.
I have no experience with catfish as I have tilapia, which grow fast and =
can tolerate less than optimum conditions, except cold water to 57 =
degrees. If you want to start with small tilapia fry you can have =
hundreds or thousands of them shipped Fed X.. There is a reputable =
company in New Mexico and one in Colorado. You will pay about 25 cents =
per each very tiny fish (fry). They should be kept indoors in an =
aquarium set up until they get up to an inch or so, before putting in =
your main system.=20
The idea of feeding earthworms appealed to me also. However, you will =
quickly deplete your worms even if you are only feeding a few pounds of =
fish per day. With your composting toilet you could maybe feed 1 or 2 =
pounds of fish. The only high capacity natural feed production system =
that offers some potential, is the production of house fly maggots. It =
is apparently possible to produce about 8 lbs. of maggots per day in a =
3'x3' area (a maggotry!). You can not do this in a populated area. =
Realistically, you still need a tremendous amount of organic feedstock =
in either the earthworm or maggot scenario. To really multiply, the =
worms and larvae must be fed balanced organics constantly. Another =
possibility may be some type of sprouted seed from a tree or bean that =
you could gather hundreds or thousands of pounds in your area for free. =
I am gathering mesquite pods now to do an experiment with natural fish =
feed. Our local Indians lived on honey mesquite pods 100 years ago, =
and I understand that a coyotes diet is 80% mesquite pods during =
July-September, why not fish? Maybe you could collect some sea weed, =
duckweed, or something aquatic locally available? =20
Realistically you might as well figure on buying pelleted feed for your =
fish, at least initially. You can gradually phase in your natural =
feedstock's. The pelleted stuff runs 25 cents to 50 cents a pound. Buy =
different size pellets - crumbles, #3, 1/16" , 3/32" and 1/8" or =
similar size ranges, to enable fastest growth.=20
While the fish are fun, they do require care in an intensive situation, =
and if you lose power or screw up in some way or another and deprive =
them of oxygen or temperature, just one time, you got dead fish to feed =
your worms. =20
I have achieved plant growth results equal or better to plain fish water =
by percolating water through strawbales and recirculating a dilute =
compost tea (about 5 parts water to 1 part strawbale tea) as if it were =
fishwater to the gravel grow beds and packed columns.=20
These compost teas seem to offer protective benefits to plants. It =
appears to also be possible to add some strawbale compost tea to your =
fish tanks to boost your plants without harming and actually benefiting =
your fish. The same is true of worm castings tea. Some may say this is =
nonsense, and warn of pathogenic consequences, but it seems to work. =
These very biologically active substances seem to kill off the =
pathogens. =20
Using fish water and compost tea together seems to boost plant growth =
and help control insect pests.=20
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| Message 30 |
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Subject: Re: Advice on catfish/aeroponics?
From: "vpage"
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 21:31:36 -0600
yes
-----Original Message-----
From: grizzly
To: aquaponics@townsqr.com
Date: Monday, July 05, 1999 7:12 PM
Subject: Re: Advice on catfish/aeroponics?
>This is a test,is anyone reading me?
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| Message 31 |
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Subject: Re: Learning fast about fish farming
From: "vpage"
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 21:33:38 -0600
I will defer to a better describer..V
-----Original Message-----
From: grizzly
To: aquaponics@townsqr.com
Date: Monday, July 05, 1999 8:10 PM
Subject: Re: Learning fast about fish farming
>What is a weeping tile? Thanks... griz
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| Message 32 |
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Subject: Re: Aquaponics
From: "vpage"
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 21:45:33 -0600
-potatoes grown in compost are far less likely to get fungus damage than =
those grown in pesticides/herbicides..=20
-your experience must have some relationship with the effect of straw =
bales in algal situations
-and there is the antibiotic effect of coir
Hmmmmm Victoria
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Senger
To: aquaponics@townsqr.com
Cc: Bagelhole1
Date: Monday, July 05, 1999 9:36 PM
Subject: Aquaponics
=20
=20
I have a system here in Arizona like you describe. I have lettuce =
growing in 4" vertical sewer pipe columns packed with lightweight =
pumice. Results are mixed in Arizona summer heat due to exposure of the =
plants to hot dry winds and filtered but hot sun. I had better results =
in cooler weather.
=20
I have no experience with catfish as I have tilapia, which grow fast =
and can tolerate less than optimum conditions, except cold water to 57 =
degrees. If you want to start with small tilapia fry you can have =
hundreds or thousands of them shipped Fed X.. There is a reputable =
company in New Mexico and one in Colorado. You will pay about 25 cents =
per each very tiny fish (fry). They should be kept indoors in an =
aquarium set up until they get up to an inch or so, before putting in =
your main system.=20
=20
The idea of feeding earthworms appealed to me also. However, you =
will quickly deplete your worms even if you are only feeding a few =
pounds of fish per day. With your composting toilet you could maybe feed =
1 or 2 pounds of fish. The only high capacity natural feed production =
system that offers some potential, is the production of house fly =
maggots. It is apparently possible to produce about 8 lbs. of maggots =
per day in a 3'x3' area (a maggotry!). You can not do this in a =
populated area. Realistically, you still need a tremendous amount of =
organic feedstock in either the earthworm or maggot scenario. To =
really multiply, the worms and larvae must be fed balanced organics =
constantly. Another possibility may be some type of sprouted seed from =
a tree or bean that you could gather hundreds or thousands of pounds in =
your area for free. I am gathering mesquite pods now to do an =
experiment with natural fish feed. Our local Indians lived on honey =
mesquite pods 100 years ago, and I understand that a coyotes diet is 80% =
mesquite pods during July-September, why not fish? Maybe you could =
collect some sea weed, duckweed, or something aquatic locally available? =
=20
=20
Realistically you might as well figure on buying pelleted feed for =
your fish, at least initially. You can gradually phase in your natural =
feedstock's. The pelleted stuff runs 25 cents to 50 cents a pound. Buy =
different size pellets - crumbles, #3, 1/16" , 3/32" and 1/8" or =
similar size ranges, to enable fastest growth.=20
=20
While the fish are fun, they do require care in an intensive =
situation, and if you lose power or screw up in some way or another and =
deprive them of oxygen or temperature, just one time, you got dead fish =
to feed your worms. =20
=20
I have achieved plant growth results equal or better to plain fish =
water by percolating water through strawbales and recirculating a =
dilute compost tea (about 5 parts water to 1 part strawbale tea) as if =
it were fishwater to the gravel grow beds and packed columns.=20
=20
These compost teas seem to offer protective benefits to plants. It =
appears to also be possible to add some strawbale compost tea to your =
fish tanks to boost your plants without harming and actually benefiting =
your fish. The same is true of worm castings tea. Some may say this is =
nonsense, and warn of pathogenic consequences, but it seems to work. =
These very biologically active substances seem to kill off the =
pathogens. =20
=20
Using fish water and compost tea together seems to boost plant =
growth and help control insect pests.=20
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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