Aquaponics Digest - Sun 08/22/99




Message   1: Re: CO2 Enrichment

             from dreadlox@cwjamaica.com (michael kent barnett)

Message   2: Pond software

             from Colin Johnston 

Message   3: Re: Pond software

             from mmiller@pcsia.com

Message   4: Re: Pond software

             from atkindw@cwjamaica.com (david w atkinson)

Message   5: Mesclun 101

             from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta

Message   6: Re: Pond software

             from William Evans 

Message   7: Re: Pond software

             from Dirtman 

Message   8: RE: Mesclun and Bananas

             from "Ronald W. Brooks" 

Message   9: Pond software

             from Colin Johnston 

Message  10: Re: [RE: Mesclun and Bananas]Growers Edge?

             from Debra Russell 

Message  11: Re: [RE: Mesclun and Bananas]Growers Edge?

             from Jennifer Maynard 

Message  12: Re: Mesclun and Bananas

             from Jennifer Maynard 

Message  13: RE: Pond software

             from "Ronald W. Brooks" 

Message  14: Re: Pond software (Alternative)

             from atkindw@cwjamaica.com (david w atkinson)

Message  15: Re: Mesclun 101

             from Jennifer Maynard 

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| Message 1                                                           |

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Subject: Re: CO2 Enrichment

From:    dreadlox@cwjamaica.com (michael kent barnett)

Date:    Sat, 21 Aug 1999 18:51:30 +0100

Follow up questions to these folks??

http://stensund.nu/aqua/

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| Message 2                                                           |

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Subject: Pond software

From:    Colin Johnston 

Date:    Sun, 22 Aug 1999 13:44:50 +0800

Attention Troops !

http://biosys.bre.orst.edu/pond/download.htm

I just d/l the new version with no problems.

 >The url is correct and appears to be located at a school, so perhaps if down

 >now for weekly maintenance.  Save the url and try again later.  You'll like

 >the program.

If Oregon State University is a 'school' then you're correct but the server 

isn't

down. I did a familiarization course at WAS Bangkok with the university staff

which sparked my interest. Version 4 beta is a big step forward.

Cheers

Colin

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| Message 3                                                           |

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Subject: Re: Pond software

From:    mmiller@pcsia.com

Date:    Sun, 22 Aug 1999 06:03:30 -0500

I just tried the download and the root .edu site and was refused connection

on each.  How big is the file?  Maybe you could send it as an attachment to

private emails or post it somewhere?  The software sound rather

interesting.  Mike Miller

At 04:13 22-08-99 -0600, you wrote:

>

>Attention Troops !

>

>http://biosys.bre.orst.edu/pond/download.htm

>

>I just d/l the new version with no problems.

>

> >The url is correct and appears to be located at a school, so perhaps if

down

> >now for weekly maintenance.  Save the url and try again later.  You'll like

> >the program.

>

>If Oregon State University is a 'school' then you're correct but the server 

>isn't

>down. I did a familiarization course at WAS Bangkok with the university staff

>which sparked my interest. Version 4 beta is a big step forward.

>

>Cheers

>

>Colin

>

>

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| Message 4                                                           |

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Subject: Re: Pond software

From:    atkindw@cwjamaica.com (david w atkinson)

Date:    Sun, 22 Aug 1999 07:41:43 -0500

I tried again and got the message that the server is not responding or could

be down.

Maybe you could advise us of the size and post it to the group.

Those that want to receive the software could respond directly.

David Atkinson

>Attention Troops !

>

>http://biosys.bre.orst.edu/pond/download.htm

>

>I just d/l the new version with no problems.

>

> >The url is correct and appears to be located at a school, so perhaps if down

> >now for weekly maintenance.  Save the url and try again later.  You'll like

> >the program.

>

>If Oregon State University is a 'school' then you're correct but the server 

>isn't

>down. I did a familiarization course at WAS Bangkok with the university staff

>which sparked my interest. Version 4 beta is a big step forward.

>

>Cheers

>

>Colin

>

>

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| Message 5                                                           |

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Subject: Mesclun 101

From:    Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta 

Date:    Sun, 22 Aug 1999 09:00:20 -0400

Hi Jennifer,

Where in the Caribbean are you located?  If you are in a tourist

destination with lots of upscale restaurants you should definitely have

a good niche.  I love this business so far.  Here goes on your

questions:

> Adriana, for banana, I am thinking of some of our local varieties to get

some small scale "semi commercial" production for a small hotel niche for

local types.

Maybe there's a market for specialty bananas but since they don't

produce fruit continuously you're tying up a lot of space and equipment

in between crops.  Perhaps field grown in a "run-to-waste" set-up would

work.  

> Where do we start with mesclun.  

To start you'll need a good open growing bed.  Sorry, hydroponic systems

that feature cut-out holes will not give you maximum yield.  Most people

who are growing mesclun are broadcasting seed with a shaker onto growing

beds.  Paula and Tom have poly growing beds with gravel, I use 1' x 14'

aluminum channels with perlite.  This allows you to grow 4+ plants per

square inch.

>I am setting some seeds in perlite and vermiculute this week end.  

Perlite alone will work just fine so there's no need to further

complicate things with vermiculite, which I believe will increase the

amount of water being held in the media.

>I am planning to try a simple experiment by using the styrofoam raft and an

aquarium air pump, just to see what gives.  

The raft system is good for individual lettuce production but not

necessarily for mesclun.

>My thing is I need to come up with  a system that is raised to reduce

harvest fatigue as I am not going large enough to want to spend US$11,000 on

an automated harvester yet.

You definitely want the beds raised to between 24-30". It takes a huge

operation to justify the harvester.

> Do, pray tell? what are some of the absolute no,nos and pit falls to look for.

1.  Marketing is THE MOST IMPORTANT ELEMENT of success in this venture. 

This means the right product at the right quality at the right price in

the right package.  If you're doing this only because you like growing

things you wont do well.  You have to like and enjoy talking to chefs

and/or store owners and be responsive to their likes/dislikes.  This is

a business about passion, not lettuce...If you are in a good sized area

catering to tourists with good quality restaurants you should have a

good market.

2.  Be prepared to be tied to this operation 7 days a week; if you can

fit a partner into your operation it will be very useful if you want to

do things like take a weekend off or go on vacation ever.  It is best if

the greenhouse is adjacent to your home as there are tasks that are best

done early morning (harvesting) and late afternoon (spraying) and having

to drive back is a deterrent from doing things when they need to be

done.

3.  You will need some additional expensive equipment like a walk-in

cooler.  The single most important factor in the shelf life of lettuces

is cooling it down to 32 degrees within 1 hour of harvest.  A related

decision is whether to wash the product or not.  It cools it down

quickly but adds labor and some say causes some tissue damage due to

extra handling.  My philosophy is if I can't provide a USDA

food-processing approved facility then I shouldn't get into washing.

4.  Find out what your competition is and be sure that what you produce

is every bit as pretty as theirs.  Color is critical, critical,

critical, especially red.  You'll need to do a lot of experimentation to

find out what will grow red under your particular conditions.  One

surprise is that the plants often don't look like the picture in the

catalog, different climates and growing conditions (outside, sun and

plastic) result in very different colors from those shown in the

catalogs so you have to test each variety before you decide to include

it in your mix.  Plan to grow the varieties separately for improved

yields and ease of management.

5.   Start by setting up a small prototype of whatever system you're

planning to use and grow the crops.  This will give you something to

show for test marketing.  I leased greenhouse space in order to minimize

my upfront capital and risk.  For initial test purposes start with a

Johnny's mesclun mix and then later customize it for your market.

6.  One of my best decisions in this process was to hire a consultant. 

It costs less than making two site visits and you have the benefit of

many years of experience with successes and failures.  Then when you're

operational you have someone to call for additional advice.

> What would help me is what varieties are heat tolerant ( of the various

species that

> should be included in a mesclun, i.e. arugula, sorrel, mache, lettuce,

asian greens,

> mustards, edible flowers, etc.)

This depends on your high temperatures which requires trial and error

for each climate.  I can tell you that mache and watercress will not

grow in your climate.  The lettuces (romaine, buttercrunch, etc.) will

need to be germinated in 50-70 degree temperature, after which they will

grow nicely.

> I am in the tropics, what would be the need of a green house over my set up.  

I would at a minimum provide a roof over the crop, 6 mill greenhouse

plastic would be OK, the construction grade breaks down.  This protects

the crop from rain.  William Brown in Hawaii does this without any

additional enclosure I believe.  I have mine in a greenhouse and have

wondered if the screen helps to keep the bugs in, rather than out.  If

you have driving rains you'll probably want to be able to provide some

side protection.  Screen is adequate for now but I can't wait for our

first hurricane scare any day now.  Then we'll need to close up the

house with plastic.

>Should I use agrofabric as an insect excluder?  Does the crop last long

enough for insects?  What tend to be the Florida pests?

Unfortunately yes, the bugs will find you.  Aphids, white flies,

cutworms, army worms, flea hopper and this week, snails.  I plan to do a

test of agrofabric as soon as I can fins some of the lightest weight in

quantities smaller than 250 linear feet.  I hope you have a good local

source for environmentally friendly pest control materials like

pyrethrins, BT, neem, Naturalis or Botaniguard, ladybugs, encarsia and

lacewings.  This has been probably the most difficult aspect of the last

six moths.  Not letting your crops go beyond 4-5 weeks is important to

keeping the critters down. This ties in to very rigorous succession

planning which is tricky at first until you learn the specifics of each

variety that you are growing for each season.  Hopefully you have a good

agriculture extension service to help on this aspect.

As to literature, be sure to go to the web site for the current issue of

Practical Hydroponics and Greenhouses

http://www.hydroponics.com.au/current_issue.html , click on the Masters

of Mesclun article.  This is a large-scale operation.  Growing Edge

Magazine is also a very good resource. The Hydrolists Hydroponic

Resource home page has an extraordinary list of useful links (

http://home.rmi.net/~liderbug/hydrolinks/).

Good luck,

Adriana

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| Message 6                                                           |

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Subject: Re: Pond software

From:    William Evans 

Date:    Sun, 22 Aug 1999 07:30:11 -0700

Maybe they need more bandwidth?????

Description: Unable to connect to the site "biosys.bre.orst.edu" for the

document

"http://biosys.bre.orst.edu/pond/download.htm".

The site is down, overloaded, or unreachable. Try connecting again

later.

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| Message 7                                                           |

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Subject: Re: Pond software

From:    Dirtman 

Date:    Sun, 22 Aug 1999 09:55:16 -0500

I went to  http://www.orst.edu/  and found this in a serch of their site:

Looked interesting.

http://www.orst.edu/Dept/crsp/pubs/technical/14tchhtml/2/2d/2d6/2d6.html

William Evans wrote:

> Maybe they need more bandwidth?????

> Description: Unable to connect to the site "biosys.bre.orst.edu" for the

> document

> "http://biosys.bre.orst.edu/pond/download.htm".

>

> The site is down, overloaded, or unreachable. Try connecting again

> later.

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| Message 8                                                           |

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Subject: RE: Mesclun and Bananas

From:    "Ronald W. Brooks" 

Date:    Sun, 22 Aug 1999 18:43:58 -0400

-> Behalf Of Jennifer Maynard

-> Sent: Saturday, August 21, 1999 11:42 PM

-> To: aquaponics@townsqr.com

-> Subject: Re: Mesclun and Bananas

->

-> Adriana, for banana, I am thinking of some of our local

-> varieties to get some small scale

-> "semi commercial" production for a small hotel niche for local types.

->

-> I am in the tropics, what would be the need of a green house

-> over my set up.

-> Jennifer

->

Jennifer

I am with Adriana one this. Banana's make large mats , up to 30 feet round

root masses. To be viable you would end up with so much space taken up just

by banana's. Yes I have seen some people fruit banana's in hydroponics but

they are happy with a few pounds of fruit. Plus you live in the tropics. the

perfect place to grow banana's. I would plant then outside around your fish

tanks to help shade them . then run your waste water and nutrient to the

banana's. If no fish plant them around one side of your grow beds , nearest

the nutrient tanks.

I am going to suggest a book. Banana's and Plantains by J.C. Robinson

ISBN # 0-85198-985-3

You can buy it at Borders.com it is $40

This book is part of the crop production series for Ag students.

Now as far as greenhouse cover. Pretty much you just need to cover the tops

of the crops to keep your lettuce mix clean. In New Zealand they don't even

bother with that , just grow it outdoors. Check out the latest issue of "

The Growers Edge "

Ron

The One Who Walks Two Paths

ICQ 44271371

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| Message 9                                                           |

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Subject: Pond software

From:    Colin Johnston 

Date:    Mon, 23 Aug 1999 08:31:59 +0800

--=====================_2093429==_.ALT

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

David,

 >I tried again and got the message that the server is not responding or could

 >be down.

 >Maybe you could advise us of the size and post it to the group.

 >Those that want to receive the software could respond directly.

 >David Atkinson

The file size is 789KB but I found that some files were missing and so I d/l

the other smaller program files (551KB) and dumped them all into the same

folder overwriting the duplicates, and things worked fine. If anyone wants me

to upload the integrated program to a site just let me have the details.

Colin

---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 

---------------------------------

According to our records you downloaded a copy of POND.

A new version is now available! Pond Version 4.0b may be downloaded

from http://biosys.bre.orst.edu/pond/download.htm.

In order to make the next version of POND even better we

would like your input. A survey is available at

http://biosys.bre.orst.edu/pond/Survey.cfm. Please take the time to

complete the survey so that then next version of POND will

better address your needs.

Thank you,

The Biosystems Analysis Group

Bioresource Engineering Department

Oregon State University

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| Message 10                                                          |

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Subject: Re: [RE: Mesclun and Bananas]Growers Edge?

From:    Debra Russell 

Date:    22 Aug 99 18:22:12 PDT

IS the Growers Edge a commonly  found magazine or what?

"Ronald W. Brooks"  wrote:

Now as far as greenhouse cover. Pretty much you just need to cover the to=

ps

of the crops to keep your lettuce mix clean. In New Zealand they don't ev=

en

bother with that , just grow it outdoors. Check out the latest issue of "=

The Growers Edge "

____________________________________________________________________

Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webm=

ail.netscape.com.

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| Message 11                                                          |

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Subject: Re: [RE: Mesclun and Bananas]Growers Edge?

From:    Jennifer Maynard 

Date:    Sun, 22 Aug 1999 21:40:35 -0300

Debra, I go through my stuff and share what I have found so far.  I do not

live in Florida but

I am in the Carribbean and am willing to share what I have learnt with you.

I will need to

sit down and check my bookmarks etc an comply my " bibliography"  and pass

it on.

All the best and good luck

Jennifer

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| Message 12                                                          |

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Subject: Re: Mesclun and Bananas

From:    Jennifer Maynard 

Date:    Sun, 22 Aug 1999 21:42:39 -0300

Ronald, Thanks very much for the comment on the Bananas and coverings.

Thanks, Jennifer

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| Message 13                                                          |

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Subject: RE: Pond software

From:    "Ronald W. Brooks" 

Date:    Sun, 22 Aug 1999 21:35:50 -0400

Colin What do you need to upload. I have a site and we could put it there if

needed.

Ron

The One Who Walks Two Paths

ICQ 44271371

-----Original Message-----

From: aquaponics

[mailto:aquaponics]On Behalf Of Colin Johnston

Sent: Sunday, August 22, 1999 8:32 PM

To: aquaponics@townsqr.com

Subject: Pond software

  David,

  >I tried again and got the message that the server is not responding or

could

  >be down.

  >Maybe you could advise us of the size and post it to the group.

  >Those that want to receive the software could respond directly.

  >David Atkinson

  The file size is 789KB but I found that some files were missing and so I

d/l

  the other smaller program files (551KB) and dumped them all into the same

  folder overwriting the duplicates, and things worked fine. If anyone wants

me

  to upload the integrated program to a site just let me have the details.

  Colin

  --------------------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------

  According to our records you downloaded a copy of POND.

  A new version is now available! Pond Version 4.0b may be downloaded

  from http://biosys.bre.orst.edu/pond/download.htm.

  In order to make the next version of POND even better we

  would like your input. A survey is available at

  http://biosys.bre.orst.edu/pond/Survey.cfm. Please take the time to

  complete the survey so that then next version of POND will

  better address your needs.

  Thank you,

  The Biosystems Analysis Group

  Bioresource Engineering Department

  Oregon State University

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| Message 14                                                          |

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Subject: Re: Pond software (Alternative)

From:    atkindw@cwjamaica.com (david w atkinson)

Date:    Sun, 22 Aug 1999 20:53:42 -0500

Try these sites:

http://www.actwin.com/fish/software.cgi

http://infoweb.magi.com/~asd/

David

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| Message 15                                                          |

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Subject: Re: Mesclun 101

From:    Jennifer Maynard 

Date:    Sun, 22 Aug 1999 22:14:59 -0300

Adriana, I am in a tourism oriented country.  I am glad tha you pointed out

the fact of the RAFT systems.  The note on the marketing issues are great.

I did get a feel the

mesclun is not a crop it is a vocation.

thanks for the rest of the info.  Check Shepperds Seed for the Agrofabric ot

these sites:

.http://www.webcom.com/ecostore/gardeningsupplies1.html

 http://www.heirloomseeds.com/sthrn-veg.htm

Hope this is what you are looking for, post me on your results.

Jennifer

S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775  417-256-5124

Web page  http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/



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