Aquaponics Digest - Sat 09/04/99
Message 1: Re: CO2 Enrichment
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 2: Kelp for aphid control
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 3: Re: Hydrogen Peroxide
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 4: Re: Kelp for aphid control
from William Evans
Message 5: More post harvest handling
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 6: Re: Kelp for aphid control
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 7: Re: Kelp for aphid control
from William Evans
Message 8: solar power and pumps
from "TGTX"
Message 9: Re: Kelp for aphid control
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 10: RE: Backyard aquaponics seeks fish
from "Ronald W. Brooks"
Message 11: Re: CO2 Enrichment
from Mike Strates
Message 12: Re: CO2 Enrichment
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 13: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Fri 09/03/99
from Gail Hall
Message 14: Re: solar power and pumps
from atkindw@cwjamaica.com (david w atkinson)
Message 15: Re: Kelp for aphid control
from William Evans
Message 16: Grapefruit Seed Extract -GSE-for stterilization
from William Evans
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| Message 1 |
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Subject: Re: CO2 Enrichment
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 06:20:47 -0400
Mike,
In Florida we don't have basements, when you go down 2 feet you hit
water! To cool a 3,000 square foot greenhouse conventionally would
probably cost close to $1,000/month. You would have to have some
extraordinary increases in yield to pay it back.
> Cooling, quite frankly - shouldn't be a problem. If you've got an under the
> house/basement area near your greenhouse, you can rig up a heat exchanger
> which will cool the greenhouse using the cool under the house area.
>
> I still recommend people invest in a closed greenhouse, and provide CO2
> enrichment using a gas burner type system. Although this may be more
> expensive to setup, it works out cheaper in the long run.
If anybody has any other ideas on cost-effective cooling methods for
high heat/high humidity environments, I would love to hear them.
Adriana Gutierrez
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Subject: Kelp for aphid control
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 06:28:39 -0400
A couple of months ago a suggestion was posted about using kelp as a
spray to control aphids and other soft-bodied sucking insects. I've
been using this regularly for about 2 months and have concluded that it
is not very effective for insect control.
It does have some other benefits and drawbacks. I had a crop of baby
lettuce which was ready to be harvested but the leaves were very soft,
probably due to the high stress conditions related to August heat. The
day after spraying the leaves had crisped up nicely.
Now for the drawback, the kelp is so strong that, when diluted at one
tablespoon per gallon the solution is the color of Coca-Cola. It leaves
a residue on some crops which cannot be washed off. The residue seems
to burn off the upper surfaces of the leaves, probably due to sunlight
leaving them clean. For some greens, like arugula, tatsoi and to some
extent mizuna, the spray leaves a brown film on the undersides of the
leaves. Lettuces, endives and Red Giant Mustard do not seem to be
affected.
Adriana Gutierrez
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Subject: Re: Hydrogen Peroxide
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 09:53:36 -0400
Emmett,
There is a better article on disinfecting with vinegar and hydrogen
peroxide in the archives of www.sciencenews.org
How to disinfect your salad -
http://www.sciencenews.org/sn_arch/9-28-96/food.htm
My concern about the technique is that the vinegar and hp are sprayed on
the produce. I would think that this may be practical alternative to
chlorine for home use immediately before consumption for family size
salads (and kitchen counters, for that matter). However when you're
handling larger quantities of produce or produce with tiny inaccessible
cavities like Broccoli, spraying doesn't assure 100% coverage. You
would have to immerse the produce, first in hydrogen peroxide, then in
vinegar to assure good coverage. A response to a follow-up letter to
the article specified that rinsing is not necessary, apparently the
researcher was not aware of the nice additives in pharmacy-grade
hydrogen peroxide. Before I used this technique on a commercial basis I
would want to see some more research on the following:
1. How often to change a solution.
2. Does it become inactivated at some point?
3. Can it be diluted to be used as a dip?
4. What happens to the shelf life of a product treated this way - does
the acid bath cause a more rapid deterioration of greens, much like a
day-old salad wilts after it has been dressed with an acidic salad
dressing.
Adriana
Peggy & Emmett wrote:
>
> A sterilizing agent, which apparently kills most pathogens, can be made up
> of a 50/50 mixture of store bought hydrogen peroxide and vinegar.
> go:www.sciencenews.org
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Subject: Re: Kelp for aphid control
From: William Evans
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 07:34:27 -0700
What brand were u using, or waas it a homemade mix?? What time of day
were you spraying? Soounds like your mixture was too strong. The point
of using kelp for sucking insect control is to raise the brix level to
the point where the plant sap is too strong (and unpalatable for the
insect). Did you spray w/ water prior to the foliar to wash the bulk of
them off?
billevans
Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta wrote:
>
> A couple of months ago a suggestion was posted about using kelp as a
> spray to control aphids and other soft-bodied sucking insects.
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Subject: More post harvest handling
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 10:35:46 -0400
There is an excellent discussion of the full range of post harvest
handling issues at http://www.attra.org/attra-pub/postharv.html
ATTRA provides a wealth of information for small agricultural
businesses, including suggestions such as how to build your own cooler,
etc.
One interesting recommendation as a disinfection alternative to chlorine
is the use of ozonation. Systems are very costly but perhaps if there
are capabilities nearby a contract could be arrange for the use of the
equipment.
Adriana
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Subject: Re: Kelp for aphid control
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 10:43:32 -0400
Here goes, William:
1.) > What brand were u using, or waas it a homemade mix??
A: Brand X - It was kelp that was given to me by a friend who markets
an organic fertilizer. I tried a 50% solution last week and the aphids
just laughed at it. I have some Maxicrop which I may try just in case
there is a differnce.
2.) What time of day
> were you spraying?
A: I only spray in the early morning, no later than 9:00 am.
3.) The point > of using kelp for sucking insect control is to raise
the brix level to
> the point where the plant sap is too strong (and unpalatable for the
> insect).
A: The article which talked about kelp did not mention the brix issue,
it just said that it seemed to interfere with the hatching of subsequent
generations. Regarding brix, I always add either molasses or King Syrup
to my spray water for this very purpose.
4.) Did you spray w/ water prior to the foliar to wash the bulk of >
them off?
A: No, it mats down the densely planted tender greens. I also suspect
that they would just climb back onto the foliage when the storm has
passed.
Adriana
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Subject: Re: Kelp for aphid control
From: William Evans
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 07:57:40 -0700
Try the maxicrop- there should be a big diference, also try spraying no
later than 7AM, 9am is too late in my book(hot already).. By adding the
molases,sugar, is the intention to fool the bug into thinking is too
sweet?
The kelp foliar ought to do this internally....Depending on how tall
your greens are , I doubt any great niumber of aphids would be able to
make it back unless the ants give them a lift, speaking of which, are
there any?
bill
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Subject: solar power and pumps
From: "TGTX"
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 10:29:23 -0500
Aquaponikers:
Here is a list of websites that you folks might find interesting, with =
info on solar power, solar powered pumps, converters, etc.
www.infinitepower.com =20
www.txses.org.
http://energy.sourceguides.com/businesses/byGeo/US/byP/water/wPump/wPump.=
shtml=20
http://chinadiesel.hypermart.net/water.htm
http://www.riferam.com/solar/M3pump.htm=20
http://www.shurflo.com/html/Solar.html=20
http://www.energy.ca.gov/agprogram/AEAPTEXT/PUBS/SOLAR.HTM#BarMountain=20
http://www.jademountain.com/sumppumps.html=20
http://mhs-solar.com/solar/solar_pumps.html#dankoff
http://members.aol.com/wlauzon/Water/sunrise.htm=20
http://divwatt.co.za/=20
http://sunpump.com/fountains.html=20
http://www.dankoffsolar.com/waterpumps/waterpumps.htm=20
http://www.worldwater.com/solarpumping_systems.html=20
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jfreeborn/=20
http://www.asis.com/aee/catalog/circulatorpumps.html=20
This should keep you reading and investigating for some time.
Gotta run.
Ted
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Subject: Re: Kelp for aphid control
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 13:55:48 -0400
Thanks William for sharing your experience and wisdom.
> Try the maxicrop- there should be a big diference, also try spraying no
> later than 7AM, 9am is too late in my book(hot already)..
A: Is there a maximum temperature which I can use as a guideline for
spraying? 7AM is a problem as my last kid gets on the school bus at
7:45 and the greenhouse is 20 minutes away. I usually try to spray
immediately upon arrival, shortly after 8AM. On weekends I can get
there earlier but light is a problem. I'll give the Maxicrop a try
tomorrow morning at the break of dawn:)...
By adding the> molases,sugar, is the intention to fool the bug into
thinking is too
> sweet?
A: Yes, was that your suggestion originally? Somebody posted it here
earlier, a little sulfur in the molasses probably won't hurt the plants
either.
> The kelp foliar ought to do this internally....Depending on how tall
> your greens are , I doubt any great niumber of aphids would be able to
> make it back unless the ants give them a lift, speaking of which, are
> there any?
A: I see a few ants but no great numbers and not necessarily where
there is aphid activity. Is there a good way to get rid of the ants?
(let me tell you about the time I got a nest of fire ants in a growing
bed...by the time I figured out they were in the bed and not on the
ground I was covered from my waist and all the way down my arm. Had it
been my husband we'd have been on the way to the ER pronto).
Thanks again,
Adriana
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Subject: RE: Backyard aquaponics seeks fish
From: "Ronald W. Brooks"
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 14:52:53 -0400
Tom
Sounds like you have built yourself a raceway that will hold 1076 gallons
by your description ) if so you can raise at the minimum of .5 pound of
fish per gallon or 538 fish. My suggestion is to get yourself around 400 all
male sex reversed Tilapia as the main start and around 50 or so Mixed sex to
carry on the breeding when the time comes for replacement.
separate them by cages ( real cheap to make out of scrounged material )
I think I have already sent you my supplier's name and address
Ron
The One Who Walks Two Paths
ICQ 44271371
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Subject: Re: CO2 Enrichment
From: Mike Strates
Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 09:00:50 +1000
On Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 06:20:47AM -0400, Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
wrote:
> In Florida we don't have basements, when you go down 2 feet you hit
> water! To cool a 3,000 square foot greenhouse conventionally would
> probably cost close to $1,000/month. You would have to have some
> extraordinary increases in yield to pay it back.
Water ... is good!!! Is the water cooler than the air temperature? If so,
you could rig up a heat exchanger to take advantage of that.
If you've got a lot of water, you can build an evaporative cooler -- an
active one which doesn't ADD humdiity to the greenhouse. I've got one of
these in my room and they work great - although, they can only lower the air
temp by around 12 degrees (which is a godsend on a really hot day,
nevertheless).
Basically, you rig up a cooler in the normal sort of way, except you keep it
outside (or even better use the air from under your house, which is drier...
but that's out of the question for you). Then, the water which CIRCULATES,
ie: drips from the cooling pads is brought into the greenhouse using a heat
exchanger.
What happens, is: as water evaporates -- its temperature decreases
dramatically. So, if you put 120F water into your cooler, in ten minutes it
should be BELOW the air temperature of the room.... get it??
--
Mike "Skyfox" Strates ; www.croftj.net/~mstrates
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Subject: Re: CO2 Enrichment
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 18:26:17 -0400
We've got well water, but I'm still not sure whether the numbers will
work. My greenhouse has gotten as highas 103 degrees this summer. That
is with the sides open and a vent along the entire ridge. Once you
close the house up totally I would expect the temps to rise another
10-20 degrees? My understanding is that evaporative coolers will only
reduce temperatures in high humidity areas by about 5 degrees (I've
heard 10 also but don't feel comfortable with that assumption). The
reason is that you can only push so much moisture into the outside air
if it's already over 90 % humidity. So even in the best of cases -
interior temps going up 10 degrees, then being reduce 10 degrees by the
wet wall, you at best stay even. Or is my assumption about the intial
temp way off since the air is flowing through it continually and the
house doesn't get a chance to heat up?.
Do you have any plans for a homemade evaporative cooler? I've read that
once the pads get old or dirty they are less than 50% effective, is that
true?
> If you've got a lot of water, you can build an evaporative cooler --
>
> Basically, you rig up a cooler in the normal sort of way,
Adriana
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Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Fri 09/03/99
From: Gail Hall
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 16:35:09 -0700
I am a greens, herbs, sprouts grower and supply restaurants. I am
concerned with the happenings around sprouts and the discussion about the
cleanliness of greens and produce in general and how to avoid problems.
I am using a product I have read about on the net. Citricidel 3X GSE
Liquid Concentrate. This product is marketed by Samual Adams Associates,
888 627-7528 Toll free fax and 1800 785-9791 to talk person to person.
Write them and request their information packet.
I use Citricidel diluted in the cooling water for my greens, sprouts and
herbs. Citricidel is a product that can be used internally. There is a
lot of research that indicates it kills internal parasites and is health
supporting. So there is no concern about the possibility of residues on
the produce.
I am not happy about using chlorine solutions, partly because I don't
like breating the fumes and being in contact with chlorine, but I don't
like pouring it into the waste water. I live in the country and my waste
water goes out into my garden.
I have not used hydrogen peroxide. I would like to know how H2O2 and
citricidel would compare in killing off the bad guys.
Gail Hall, Tender Greens
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Subject: Re: solar power and pumps
From: atkindw@cwjamaica.com (david w atkinson)
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 19:46:11 -0400
Hi,
I made some preliminary checks. Some good stuff. Could not get into the
(//members.aol.com/ ...) site though. Access was denied, not having the
required authority for access.
David
At 10:29 AM 09/04/1999 -0500, you wrote:
> Aquaponikers: Here is a list of websites that you folks might find
>intereing wit info on solar pow sarwed umps, converters, e.
>
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Subject: Re: Kelp for aphid control
From: William Evans
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 18:12:51 -0700
> A: Is there a maximum temperature which I can use as a guideline for
> spraying?
...I dont know. I do know that the reason for early spray is that that
is when stomata are open(at night-they close up in the morning) Also the
objective is for the foliar to soak in as much as possible(or for the
plant to "drink up" as much as possible). There can be prollems when
foliars dry on the plant instead of bing suckd up..What aboutsome real
farm hours(like 330am-bigger bang for the buck!)
On weekends I can get> there earlier but light is a problem.
...Get a flashlight that clips onto the bill of a baseball cap-get there
before the roosters crow...i kno the maxi is pricey...the earlier the
better...Search around, watch the ants, usually they are tending the
aphids. They bring in the cows to lay eggs and start the "herd"..I
thinking of the little argentine ants-like 1/16" long..Usually find the
nest when flooding the ground, maybe some orange oil,
peppermint/cayenne(or any hot pepper available) mixed into a drench will
really get em outa there..I think there is also something called kleen
kill enzyme-breaks down their skin- available thru biconet(or many
conventionaltoxic choices)
If anything just flood the nest when found and use some soap-works
most of the time but might need to repeat.
bill evans
zone10 san diego ca
>
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Subject: Grapefruit Seed Extract -GSE-for stterilization
From: William Evans
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 18:38:43 -0700
Yes another happy customer!I too use grapefruit seed
extract(GSE)-antiviral, antibacterial,anti
fungal,anthelmentic(parasitekiller).....
for sniffles a coupledrops in a quart of water-put this into an old
nose inhaler(afrin or other) works much better, sore throat use as a
gargle and then drink some...not full strenegthNEVER in the eyes or even
near, gets rid of crabs, head lice, weird skin rashes, athletes foot,
danndruff, baldness, strwep throat(i was kidding bout the baldness, for
that make a redworm smoothy and apply topically)...try this link for
more info...
...http://www.nutriteam.com/dosage.htm
as for sterilization, its great at that, only prollem that might crop up
is if strength was too high(it tastes very bitter"ish"...a little goes a
loooooonnnnngggggg way.
billevans
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