Aquaponics Digest - Tue 09/28/99
Message 1: Re: Looking for Tilapia in California
from dreadlox@cwjamaica.com (michael kent barnett)
Message 2: Re: sonic bloom
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 3: dumb question
from ranchos@sol.racsa.co.cr
Message 4: VISIT
from LC543119
Message 5: RE: dumb question
from Conrad von Zirkwitz
Message 6: RE: sonic bloom
from Conrad von Zirkwitz
Message 7: RE: sonic bloom
from Conrad von Zirkwitz
Message 8:
from
Message 9: Crop alternatives
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 10: Re: dumb question
from
Message 11: Perlite is full of air....Re: dumb question
from William Evans
Message 12: Re:
from mmiller@pcsia.com
Message 13: Tomato varieties
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 14: Re: Bacteria innoculants
from "TGTX"
Message 15: Re: dumb question
from "TGTX"
Message 16: Re: Perlite is full of air....Re: dumb question
from "vpage"
Message 17: processing
from "vpage"
Message 18: Re:
from MUDDTOO
Message 19: Re: processing
from "John Korstad"
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Subject: Re: Looking for Tilapia in California
From: dreadlox@cwjamaica.com (michael kent barnett)
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 23:40:34 +0100
CONGRATS Ronald!! ahhhhh....
When will the fingerlings run in the Brooks?
mmmhhh...
:)
Catch you later onstream, sorry online....
smiles from Jamaica,
Mike
Ronald W. Brooks wrote:
>
> Tom
>
> Some where in my travels and Honeymoon I missed your original request
>
> Tilapia farmers in California and what they grow
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Subject: Re: sonic bloom
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 06:35:56 -0400
And to think my plants have had to make do with National Public
Radio:>)...Did you do any controlled tests?
Adriana
> The idea here is that the chirping sound has been specially developed to
> help open the pores on the leaves of the plants and allow the plants to
> uptake more nutrients.
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Subject: dumb question
From: ranchos@sol.racsa.co.cr
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 06:30:43 -0500
I assume the purpose of the medium (perlite, vermiculite, gravel, etc) is
basically to hold up the plant while the roots get the nutrient, is there
any reason why you can't just use dirt to do the same thing, assuming it's
good, clean, maybe sterilized earth. The dirt could even be a source of
trace elements missing from conventional nutrient formulas. Where I am
(Costa Rica) those mediums are either not available or expensive.
Jose
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Subject: VISIT
From: LC543119
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:18:09 EDT
Mike,
I have sent you the name and # private I will be back in Jamaica
after my trips to St Lucia and Antigua I will let you know when that is
Gordon Creaser
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Subject: RE: dumb question
From: Conrad von Zirkwitz
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 09:31:58 -0700
In Biodynamic Agriculture, the medium is more than a support for the roots
and plant, it is actually
a holder of the spiritual forces required for the plant to grow.
Conrad
I assume the purpose of the medium (perlite, vermiculite, gravel, etc) is
basically to hold up the plant while the roots get the nutrient, is there
any reason why you can't just use dirt to do the same thing, assuming it's
good, clean, maybe sterilized earth. The dirt could even be a source of
trace elements missing from conventional nutrient formulas. Where I am
(Costa Rica) those mediums are either not available or expensive.
Jose
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Subject: RE: sonic bloom
From: Conrad von Zirkwitz
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 09:36:37 -0700
Well, I never bought their product (foliar spray), just the tape, which was
a mere $10 and worth the money just for the music, which is quite pleasant.
Why not buy a tape and try for yourself.
Conrad
Did you feel the change hit your back as you left the store with this
product? This story is as good as reading the ads in ACRES USA. As Jim
Hightower likes to say, "I was born at night but not last night."
However, it is apparently a good method to get a premium price for their
product and tape sales to boot. Bring on the Skeptical Inquirer magazine.
Mike Miller
At 16:49 27-09-99 -0600, you wrote:
snip
>The music is played for the plants in the morning, and they are foliar
>sprayed after about 15 mins.
>The idea here is that the chirping sound has been specially developed to
>help open the pores on the leaves of the plants and allow the plants to
>uptake more nutrients.
>This concept is much like nature, where the birds are chirping early in the
>morning and inducing the plants to suck up the dew that is on their leaves.
>Sonic Bloom sells this tape for a measly $10, and as well they sell their
>somewhat expensive brand of foliar spray.
>I used seaweed spray with impressive results.
>Check the webpage for more impressive claims and pictures:
>http://www.sonicbloom.com
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Subject: RE: sonic bloom
From: Conrad von Zirkwitz
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 09:37:11 -0700
There was no need, the results were beyond obvious.
Conrad
And to think my plants have had to make do with National Public
Radio:>)...Did you do any controlled tests?
Adriana
> The idea here is that the chirping sound has been specially developed to
> help open the pores on the leaves of the plants and allow the plants to
> uptake more nutrients.
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Subject:
From:
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:13:14 + 5 EST
Hi! Has anyone had success with tomatoes and what varities were most
successful? We
have planted Cherry 100's, but the plants got huge with very little fruit! Any
suggestions as to where our errors are? We pollintaed heavily, but they
still didn't
do a thing. We have had some luck with cucumbers hydroponically - just
trying to
steer clear of basil as it really doesn't have a lot of value in our area!
Mike
P.S. Other crop suggestions????????????
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Subject: Crop alternatives
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:23:56 -0400
Hi Mike,
I don't have fish in my system but my understanding is that tomatoes are
heavy feeders which the aquaponics effluent cannot support.
> Hi! Has anyone had success with tomatoes and what varities were most
successful? We
> have planted Cherry 100's, but the plants got huge with very little fruit!
Any
> suggestions as to where our errors are?
If you find the right chefs with a passion for quality you should be
able to sell your basil. As an alternative you might do some market
research into arugula. Here in Florida the arugula being supplied by
the wholesale produce guys are these limp dead leaves with dirty roots.
The difference between what I can grow and what is available
commercially is such that one chef told me this morning "once I tried
your arugula there's no going back to the produce guy's..." Assuming
your produce comes from the same California origins that ours does this
may be a nice little niche to get into. I would recommend that you grow
some and take it to a few Italian or upscale restaurants to see what
they think.
> steer clear of basil as it really doesn't have a lot of value in our area!
> P.S. Other crop suggestions????????????
Adriana Gutierrez
Green Cuisine
Sarasota, Florida
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Subject: Re: dumb question
From:
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 14:29:25 + 5 EST
Jose,
Part of the reason behind the aquaponics theory is that we are trying to grow
intensive populations of crops in a small amount of space with water or some
othe fish
effluent. Sterile soil sounds all well and good, but that is exactly the
problem. You
are most likely going to get nothing more hant mud. If you are running an
integrate
system which recycles and filters the water with fish waste, then youget,
well.....mud. This will not really do a great deal for the fish!
Mike
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Subject: Perlite is full of air....Re: dumb question
From: William Evans
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:55:55 -0700
Perlite is used as it holds much air.coarse gravel rock may be utilized
instead
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Subject: Re:
From: mmiller@pcsia.com
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 17:21:59 -0500
I think this is a sign of too much nitrogen when they are all leaves and no
fruit. I grew some Presto's from Totally Tomatoes this year in the garden
and am quite pleased with the result. Nice shape and color and moderate in
size so not to much internal fiber like you see on massively large
tomatoes. Mike Miller
At 12:32 28-09-99 -0600, you wrote:
>
>Hi! Has anyone had success with tomatoes and what varities were most
successful? We
>have planted Cherry 100's, but the plants got huge with very little fruit!
Any
>suggestions as to where our errors are? We pollintaed heavily, but they
still didn't
>do a thing. We have had some luck with cucumbers hydroponically - just
trying to
>steer clear of basil as it really doesn't have a lot of value in our area!
>Mike
>
>P.S. Other crop suggestions????????????
>
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Subject: Tomato varieties
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 21:05:07 -0400
Has anybody tried any of the "black" tomatoes or a yellow one with a
scalloped edge? Tomato Growers Supply Company
(http://www.tomatogrowers.com/) has photographs of some interesting
varieties including
- Black Prince http://www.tomatogrowers.com/gallery.htm and
- Ruffled Yellow http://www.tomatogrowers.com/yellow.htm
If you are looking for the highest yields then you should research the
varieties which are most resistant to a variety of diseases. A quick
search of the hydro list archives will bring up recent discussions on
the subject. I have recently seeded a striped oval cherry tomato from
Stokes called Tigerette and will keep you posted as to its performance.
Adriana
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Subject: Re: Bacteria innoculants
From: "TGTX"
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 20:20:43 -0500
Hi Mike
You wrote:
> ammonia => nitrite => nitrate conversion to be happening. I don't
recommend
> what others have been doing, however with an anerobic bed/zone which
allows
> the nitrate => gaseous nitrogen bacteria to grow. I beleive that bad
> bacteria could multiply in this zone and spread throughout your system.
I would like to comment on those points.
My raving taut has often been that anaerobic microzones are important in
nitrogen and other nutrient recycling schemes- Hmmm..... I guess it's mo'
betta to say "important, and convenient, but perhaps not absolutely
essential". Like the lawyers say "It depends".
These anaerobic microzones I have written about, as the name implies, are
minor features and constitute relatively smaller "organs" or "organic
functional units" within the system that operate at lower net mass flow
rates due to their total volume, total surface area, and total net
"flow-through" rate compared to the total system. It is true that if these
zones grow in size and proportion, then you are in a world of hurt and
affliction.
Such microzones are obviously present in the soil where we grow our organic
food. And in lakes and stream sediments that recycle phosphorus and other
nutrients through very small vertical dimensions on the order of millimeters
and centimeters. Redox potential gradients and boundaries are VERY
important in nature. They are present in our intestines, yada,
yada....So..they have their place...like a small square of red or yellow in
a Mondrion painting.
Or not.
The potential for "bad" bacteria spreading disasterously and irreversibly
throughout the system is only realistic (in my opinion) IF AND ONLY IF the
rest of the system is devoid of "good" bacteria and other organisms which
can.....Do what?.... They can not only tolerate but "control" the abundance
of the so-called "bad" bacteria...throughout the rest of the system. It's
not so much a question of 100% physical isolation of the "bad" and the
"good" components from one another, but the establishment of physiochemical
regimes which promote vigorous, functional, beneficial, and protective
assemblages of organisms within the cycle, based on the factors of
biochemical specialization and competitive exclusion.
Or not.
Wading Hip Deep In Fertilizer,
Ted.
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Subject: Re: dumb question
From: "TGTX"
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 20:44:25 -0500
> In Biodynamic Agriculture, the medium is more than a support for the roots
> and plant, it is actually
> a holder of the spiritual forces required for the plant to grow.
>
> Conrad
A holder of spiritual forces?
By that, do you mean a container?
Or, perhaps a vessel?
Or, a sepulchre?
Or a crock?
Or a dumpster?
Just Curious.
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Subject: Re: Perlite is full of air....Re: dumb question
From: "vpage"
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 20:14:33 -0600
You probably have coconut fibre (coir) available to you. It makes an
excellent potting medium and has a natural antibiotic quality. It can even
be reused. I have used it in its compressed form without pots. As long as it
is not handled it holds its shape and wicks moisture but does not become
soggy.
VPage
> Perlite is used as it holds much air.coarse gravel rock may be utilized
> instead
>
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Subject: processing
From: "vpage"
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 20:20:22 -0600
We have almost completed arrangements for a workshop on recirculation and
aquaponics. It will be held in July 2000 at Lethbridge community College
here in Alberta Canada.
We will cover all aspects of land based aquaculture and hence my note.
We are trying to find a good and up to date speaker on the processing
component. It must be processing with recirculation in mind.
?? Thanks Victoria
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Subject: Re:
From: MUDDTOO
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 22:21:47 EDT
Hello All,
I'd agree with that - maybe too much nitrogen. I'm running at 15 - 30 -15
and have very good results with yellow pear (cherry size) and red roma
tomatoes. All produced heavily with thin skins and the yellow pear have
little to no fiber inside. They keep real well if picked before they become
translucent. But when they're translucent is when they're the sweetest. The
plant grows very tall (>10 feet) in 4-5 months, with long thin branches
that need to be tied to something to gain support. Cherry Millions grew real
well last year with this mix too. Good luck.
Joel
In a message dated 9/28/99 3:33:57 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
mmiller@pcsia.com writes:
> I think this is a sign of too much nitrogen when they are all leaves and no
> fruit. I grew some Presto's from Totally Tomatoes this year in the garden
> and am quite pleased with the result. Nice shape and color and moderate in
> size so not to much internal fiber like you see on massively large
> tomatoes. Mike Miller
>
> At 12:32 28-09-99 -0600, you wrote:
> >
> >Hi! Has anyone had success with tomatoes and what varities were most
> successful? We
> >have planted Cherry 100's, but the plants got huge with very little fruit!
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Subject: Re: processing
From: "John Korstad"
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 23:48:27 -0500
How about Jim Rakocy for the speaker?
I'm interested in the meeting. Please send me a brochure and registration
information. Thanks, John
John Korstad, Ph.D.
Dept. of Biology
Oral Roberts Univ.
7777 S. Lewis
Tulsa, OK 74171
TEL: 918-495-6942
FAX: 918-495-6033
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