Aquaponics Digest - Sat 10/02/99




Message   1: Re: DE

             from Mike Strates 

Message   2: Re: Bacteria innoculants

             from "Sam Levy" 

Message   3: Re: Bacteria innoculants

             from "TGTX" 

Message   4: Re: Bacteria innoculants

             from marc 

.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.

| Message 1                                                           |

'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'

Subject: Re: DE

From:    Mike Strates 

Date:    Sat, 2 Oct 1999 15:02:04 +1000

On Fri, Oct 01, 1999 at 10:03:28AM -0500, Donna Fezler wrote:

> The issue may be the difference in handling between food grade and

> non-food grade. Then again, maybe it is just the label.  Anyone?

It sounds like the Aviation vs. Welder's oxygen. Essentially both come from

the same factory, and go through the same process... the only difference is

the label (and the amount of tax applied to it.)

Then again, I might be wrong...

-- 

Mike "Skyfox" Strates ; www.croftj.net/~mstrates

Phone: +613-9440-5778; ICQ #47663425. Exercising my freedom of flight.

.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.

| Message 2                                                           |

'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'

Subject: Re: Bacteria innoculants

From:    "Sam Levy" 

Date:    Sat, 02 Oct 1999 12:59:54 PDT

Ted,

the exposition was well thought out & interesting as usual.  just a reminder 

that anaerobic zones besides converting no3- to n2 gas may also reduce 

sulfur compounds or ions (like so4--) to hydrogen sulfide gas (h2s)which is 

extremely toxic to fish although i have no idea how it would effect plants.

i believe the sulfur reducers are often controlled by insuring an adequate 

carbon source.

it has always seemend to me important to not forget some of the unpleasant 

possibilities of anaerobic digestion.

sam

From: "TGTX" 

>Subject: Re: Bacteria innoculants

>Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 20:20:43 -0500

>

>

>My raving taut has often been that anaerobic microzones are important in

>nitrogen and other nutrient recycling schemes

>

>Ted.

>

.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.

| Message 3                                                           |

'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'

Subject: Re: Bacteria innoculants

From:    "TGTX" 

Date:    Sat, 2 Oct 1999 16:15:21 -0500

> Ted,

>

> the exposition was well thought out & interesting as usual.  just a

reminder

> that anaerobic zones besides converting no3- to n2 gas may also reduce

> sulfur compounds or ions (like so4--) to hydrogen sulfide gas (h2s)which

is

> extremely toxic to fish although i have no idea how it would effect

plants.

>

> i believe the sulfur reducers are often controlled by insuring an adequate

> carbon source.

>

> it has always seemend to me important to not forget some of the unpleasant

> possibilities of anaerobic digestion.

>

> sam

Sam,

Of course small zones of anoxia produce H2S.  Reduced species such as H2S,

methane, and mercaptans are all stinky semi-toxic bog chemicals.  But, like

boogers and earwax, and other aspects of natural reality, they serve a

purpose in cycling and shunting sulfur, carbon and other elements/materials

It's a QUESTION OF BALANCE....as the Moody Blues might say.

H2S production takes place in sediments of every river, lake, and

aquaculture fish pond, below the oxidized layer.  Differences in degree seem

to be the most important differences within ecosystems.  Take a sediment

core of the most oxidized, pure stream or river you can think of....high

quality water with little organic matter, little nutrients, crystal

clear.....take a very close look....just below the oxidized zone is a

beautiful boundary zone that goes from brown to grey to black....and below

that..we witness a layer of rancid, anoxic, putridness.  It serves as a

nutrient sink...but also a "time- released" nutrient pump back up to the

oxidized zone and it does some rather remarkable things with nitrogen,

sulfur, and phosphorus, not only locally but gobally.

Our brave and vigorous champions, the aquatic vascular plants, send roots to

the edge of that boundary and just beyond it in an act of what can only be

thought of as bold and risky business to mine the resources of that nutrient

bank.  They exude humic and fulvic acids and other conventient secondary

byproducts of there metabolism, and thus sequester the materials needed from

the "nutrient bank".  The same kind of thing happens in agricultural soils

to a degree. Isn't that beautiful?  I really admire and respect that.  They

are willing to get their roots dirty in order to make a living.  Working

class plants- you gotta love that.

Think of the "repugnant" stuff that takes place in the cycle from fresh

food.. to the mouth.. through the intestine to the ...uh...compost bin or

sewer....Herman Hesse wrote a novel entitled "Beneath the Wheel" in which

the protagonist spoke of "terrible beauty".  I read that novel as a kid and

I have never have forgotten that phrase when I think of ecosystem or

physiological processes!

As I said before, the anoxic microzone is just that..."micro"...and we are

in a world of hurt if oxygen does not prevail as the dominant factor

throughout most of the system...or should I say if oxidizing conditions do

not prevail in our system.  The small amounts of H2S generated in the

scenario I have described become rapidly oxidized, or "sparged" from the

system though various water/atmospheric interfaces...Don't you agree?

We should all remember that every cell in our bodies MUST maintain REDUCTIVE

pressures within the cell, while importing limited quantities of oxygen for

respiration....If the internal environment of every cell of our bodies

suddenly were oxidized, cells would die....Oxygen is toxic at certain levels

of concentration within the cell!   We must maintain the proper fuel to

oxidizer mix inside the cells to "Keep on Choogling" as John Fogerty would

sing...It's all about smoldering without going to conflagration on the one

hand...or complete anoxia on the other.

Life is Dangerous.  Isn't that Great?

Ted

.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.

| Message 4                                                           |

'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'

Subject: Re: Bacteria innoculants

From:    marc 

Date:    Sat, 02 Oct 1999 21:03:42 -0600

> My raving taut has often been that anaerobic microzones are important in

> nitrogen and other nutrient recycling schemes-  Hmmm..... I guess it's mo'

> betta to say "important, and convenient, but perhaps not absolutely

> essential".  Like the lawyers say "It depends".

Hi Ted!

In my readings at the University of Colorado library I came upon a graduate

paper on an lake/pond/puddle purposefully constructed to take advantage of this

phenomena.

This was a few years ago so my legendary incredibly photographic memory  is a

bit  fuzzy, like an exploded down pillow, but I recall the lake/pond/puddle was

pretty good size, an acre or five or  something like that. The reasoning was

that the lake/pond/puddle would develop anaerobic zones in the lake bed and when

the nitrate laden water traveled through these zones they would be diminished.

The results indicated the anaerobic zones were not consistently produced so some

parts of the lake bed were unpopulated with anaerobic zones. Consequently the

water treatment, in terms of nitrate reduction, was not high enough to warrant

this technique for predictable wastewater treatment. Major bummer for the

anaerobic puddle industry.

The zones that did occur did a great job. The areas that  did not have anaerobic

zones were, of course, like not much fer doin the nitrate lessening thing.

How about "Doo or doo not but compost doo doo".

Marc



Back to Index