Aquaponics Digest - Tue 11/02/99
Message 1: Re: QuantumPonics machine
from MUDDTOO
Message 2: Re: Raspberries
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 3: Analogy
from "Jewel" <1mastiff@amigo.net>
Message 4: Re: QuantumPonics machine
from "Jewel" <1mastiff@amigo.net>
Message 5: Re: Concrete...
from Marc & Marcy
Message 6: Re: Raspberries
from Jeff
Message 7: Re: Analogy
from Dave Miller
Message 8: Jewel stays
from Peggy & Emmett
Message 9: Re: Analogy
from "Jewel" <1mastiff@amigo.net>
Message 10: Re: Jewel stays
from "Jewel" <1mastiff@amigo.net>
Message 11: Magnetic
from "Jewel" <1mastiff@amigo.net>
Message 12: Re: Analogy
from Marc & Marcy
Message 13: Re: Where in Virginia
from Bertmcl
Message 14: mailing lists
from dbenhart@essex1.com (David Benhart)
Message 15: Re: mailing lists
from Jon Hays
Message 16: Re: Analogy
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 17: Re: mailing lists
from dbenhart@essex1.com (David Benhart)
Message 18: Re: Raspberries
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 19: Cinnamite
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 20: Re: Cinnamite
from Marc & Marcy
Message 21: Re: Magnetic Fields
from Dave Miller
Message 22: Re: Cinnamite
from "Wendy Nagurny"
Message 23: Re: Magnetic Fields
from Marc & Marcy
Message 24: Re: Magnetic Fields (correction)
from Marc & Marcy
Message 25: Re: Cinnamite
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 26: Re: Magnetic Fields
from "Jewel" <1mastiff@amigo.net>
Message 27: Re: Cinnamite
from "Jewel" <1mastiff@amigo.net>
Message 28: Re: Cinnamite
from Dave Miller
Message 29: change e-mail address
from "Greg/Judi Kail"
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| Message 1 |
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Subject: Re: QuantumPonics machine
From: MUDDTOO
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 01:04:22 EST
Jewel,
A lot of interesting things can be discovered by those who didn't know they
couldn't.
It seems we had a similar prolonged discussion like this one some time ago,
and it seemed to involve some of the same characters too :-) But I could be
wrong.
I'm behind you on the influence humans can have over their plants. My
hydroponic garden hasn't fared as well this year as it has before and I
attribute it to a new automatic water level device I added to maintain the
proper water level in the tanks. In the old days I would check the tanks and
plants twice daily to refill the tanks and groom some. Grooming the plants
involved checking for bugs, removing old growth and rearranging branches and
fruit. Sometime we would even get a chorus together to sing old show tunes -
Ha Ha.
Now I don't get out there but once a week or so and the plants haven't
produced as much leaf and fruit growth. I think they miss the human touch -
the grooming process perhaps.
Enjoy your week
Joel
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Subject: Re: Raspberries
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 07:19:19 -0500
Gordon and Others,
I've spoken to two nurseries in the last week about raspberry plants.
Spooner Farms in Washington State was willing to process long canes
which would allow for two crops off of one rootball. Their deadline for
orders was November 1, however and they would not begin shipping until
sometime in January. Nourse Farms in Massachussets will be taking
orders unti they run out of stock and begin shipping at the end of this
month. They are not selling the long canes so only one crop will be
possible. A Florida grower reported picking fruit 70 days after
planting.
I plan to put in a trial order. If they do well this year then I may
consider going to the expense of getting the long canes. Unfotunately
the variety that did very well in the Florida trials, Heritage,
reportedly had bad flavor when grown hydroponically. Ron can you shed
some light onthis from your reading?
Adriana
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Subject: Analogy
From: "Jewel" <1mastiff@amigo.net>
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 09:03:48 -0600
Hi Group,
All night I've been thinking about this Qponics incident with Dale and the
negative
responses I received from Ted and Marc (Marc's response was sent directly to
my private email address, and not on the groups list) and thought it might
be
helpful to clarify things using an analogy. Perhaps it will help Dale and
Marc and any others who may not "get it" about these unfounded attacks on
the Qponics devices.
Let's say I'm Tom and Paula (in the early stages of developing the system).
We've had success with our system, but it's not proven over the years yet.
The "technological" explanation for the system, is based on the old Chinese
method of digging a hole, filling it with water, and stocking it with fish.
That system worked. Ours seems to be working. One day we get an email from
someone who says they are surprised we've had success with our system,
because they have tried three experiments, and all have failed. We ask for
details for how they are running their system, and find out for the first
experiment, they were filling their growing beds with soil, not gravel. The
fish died. In the next experiment, they put the hydrogen peroxide in the
tank water, rather than just using it to sterilized the system before hand.
We explain what he did wrong, and how to correct it, to no avail. He
insists on trying one more experiment, that is still not using the proper
parameters required to successfully operate the S&S system. Naturally, it
fails also. The person is now hostile, and blaming us for system failure,
and refuses to even try to set up the system correctly for a proper
experiment. In such a case, who's fault is it that the "experiment" failed?
S&S, or the individual doing things wrong? The next thing you know, the
person posts an email to warn everyone on the list that the S&S system does
not work, declaring that they have done 3 experiments with it, and they all
failed. What should be done in such a case? Should we let everyone on the
list possibly be influenced to give up on aquaponics, or the S&S system? I
don't think so. I think the right thing to do is to explain why the person
is making such claims, and that they are invalid. I got "put down" by Ted
and Marc for doing so. I don't think that is fair, objective, or in the
best interests of everyone on the list.
I think I should explain a little about where I'm coming from. I, and my
husband are cancer survivors. We would be dead if not for alternative
therapy. My husband was given 6 weeks to live, even with chemotherapy and
radiation. He is also a doctor, and was determined not to accept that. He
went to the university medical library to look up the latest research on
cancer, and found a paper by a doctor who had done a study which led him to
what he believed was a cure. He was told not to publish his findings, but
he did anyway. He was fired from the university he worked at, and was also
arrested weekly until he left the country. This man's research cured my
husband. Years later, I also was diagnosed with brain and breast tumors,
and alternative therapy saved my life. I can't explain the technology
involved, but it worked. Do you know why the doctor was told not to
publish? Do you know how many billions is involved in traditional cancer
therapy? You may disagree that people could be so cold hearted as to
perpetrate such a thing, but if you had cancer, you might open your mind to
the realities of life. Once my husbands mother was invited to a dinner
party thrown by a neighbor who was a doctor. The reason for the dinner
party? A celebration that he got a new cancer patient, and that put him
over the edge for taking a vacation to Europe. Disgusting, but true. And
that's just one doctor, all aren't the same, but when you get into the
"business" of medicine, drugs, hospitals - human compassion goes out the
window. Now, the same thing applies to people who have discovered new
inventions to radically improve gas mileage, or anything that threatens big
money. They never get out.
I owned a solar hot water company many years ago, and was contacted by a
scientist who invented a new system, that would allow every family freedom
from the utilities grid. He demonstrated it, and the explanation made
sense. All it involved was putting freon charged panels on the roof, and
when the sun hit it, the gas expanded and drove a ceramic turbine, which was
tied to a genset that generated all the electricity a normal family home
needed. When the gas cooled, it turned to liquid again and was pumped back
to the roof. It was a cheap system. It even worked in the Arctic. The man
started getting letters telling him to cease and desist. He didn't listen.
He disappeared. His wife and family was in shock. The Japanese company
providing the ceramic turbines denied they knew him, and said the ceramic
turbines were maybe 20 years in the future away from production (I'd seen
one though). What's the point of all this? Do you know what corporations
make the artificial fertilizers and nutrients? Do you know all of the
implications of creating a device that would double world food production,
and cut way down on nutrient demands? I do. And I know what lengths will
be gone to in order to stop it. So I approach all the lack of info,
secrecy, etc.. surrounding the Qponics units with that in mind.
Incidentally, I've received reports from African MD's about Qponics units
that are having remarkable effects on humans. Will it ever get out and used
here? No. Why have the plant units not "taken off" in four years? Well,
it could be that they don't work. Or it could be because they do. My eyes
(and mind) are open. Besides that, all my experiences, and facing death
myself, has given me a new perspective for life, and compassion for others.
I REALLY want to make the world a better place, and I know it starts with
me. Its the same for everyone. It starts with you. My grandparents, and
my husbands, were farmers who lost out to expansion and agribiz. But it's
just one part of much bigger "changes" that have been going on in the world.
Still, farmers (or small hydroponics growers) are the grass roots of life,
and I want to help them as much as possible. Again, I've never stated the
Qponics for sure works, just that it might, and I'm experimenting because of
the great potential it holds if it does work. Anything that comes my way
that might help improve growing and the life of growers, I'm going to
investigate, and promote if I believe it helps. I'm quite passionate about
this. And when I see someone trying to manipulate everyone's minds with
scewed
psuedo-facts like Dale was "dispassionately" presenting, I'm sorry, but I
get
very indignant and
have to speak out and speak the truth. I'm not trying to pick fights, just
keep things objective and truthful. If the group doesn't like it, let me
know and I'll leave it. If they like it, let me know and I'll stay on
board.
Jewel
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| Message 4 |
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Subject: Re: QuantumPonics machine
From: "Jewel" <1mastiff@amigo.net>
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 09:25:01 -0600
You're right Joel, I guess they're kind of like pets and wives. A little
attention can make all the diff in being happy and fruitful. There's alot
of evidence that they respond to humans, even without physical touch.
Considering all the other hassels we go through to get a good crop, giving
our plants some emotional/physical "quality time" is a pretty
easy way to enhance crop production, and feel good ourselves!
> Now I don't get out there but once a week or so and the plants haven't
> produced as much leaf and fruit growth. I think they miss the human
touch -
> the grooming process perhaps.
>
> Enjoy your week
>
> Joel
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Subject: Re: Concrete...
From: Marc & Marcy
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 09:30:00 -0700
michael kent barnett wrote:
>
> Hi guys...
>
> My queries have lead me to the range of latex polymer concrete
> modifiers!! I will soon be trying this out... and will post the reslts
> if anyones interested. It is waterproof and water is safe fr fish and
> pools ponds water storage..
>
> MIke, the concrete putterer...
I have been considering the idea of using ferro cement for
some of the applications around here. A good design tool kit
and physical skills would be an exciting thing.
There are several design criteria that have seemed to be
vital in the past.
There are ways to form and finish concrete ponds that
allow them to keep their water over the winter and freeze
without damaging the concrete.
I am sure there is a cure time or procedure that is needed
before fish are added to the ferro concrete structure. This
subject has been looked at in detail a couple of times
before. The "break-in" procedure would be a helpful thing to
develop and disseminate.
The minimum weight needed would be useful for portability.
Ferro cement boats had a reputation for being heavy. If I
sell my farm for a zillion dollars I'd like to take my tanks
along to my new farm.
There has been a couple of threads on this subject. I joined
the
ferro cement news group (nice sign up page!) as a result of
the following one:
> Hello Paula, I don't know if you remember me but we exchanged e-mails about
> setting up a newsgroup on ferrocement similar in format to the aquaponics
> group. Thanks in part to your help I have succeeded and the group has been
> functioning for for 4 days now. My website is at www.ferrocement.net .
> To subscribe to the group send an e-mail to
> ferro-users-request@ferrocement.net and put join in the subject line. To
> leave send to the same address and put the word leave in the subject line.
> To post to the group once you are subscribed send to
> ferro-users@ferrocement.net All instructions are also on the website.
> If you would be so kind could you please post this info. on the aquaponics
> list at your convenience. Thank you for your help Paula and I still
> think the aquaponics list is the best group I have experienced . Sincerely,
> Paul Sarnstrom hoh@montrose.net
Please include me as an interested ferro cement person.
Marc S. Nameth
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Subject: Re: Raspberries
From: Jeff
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 10:31:02 -0700
Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta wrote:
>
> Gordon and Others,
>
> I've spoken to two nurseries in the last week about raspberry plants.
> Spooner Farms in Washington State was willing to process long canes
> which would allow for two crops off of one rootball. Their deadline for
> orders was November 1, however and they would not begin shipping until
> sometime in January. Nourse Farms in Massachussets will be taking
> orders unti they run out of stock and begin shipping at the end of this
> month. They are not selling the long canes so only one crop will be
> possible. A Florida grower reported picking fruit 70 days after
> planting.
>
> I plan to put in a trial order. If they do well this year then I may
> consider going to the expense of getting the long canes. Unfotunately
> the variety that did very well in the Florida trials, Heritage,
> reportedly had bad flavor when grown hydroponically. Ron can you shed
> some light onthis from your reading?
>
> Adriana
Do you have phone numbers for these places. I would like to trial them
in my greenhouse.
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Subject: Re: Analogy
From: Dave Miller
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 12:33:31 -0500
Jewel,
Your second lease on life certainly qualifies you to see the world with
open eyes. Please continue to report your results as before.
Have you placed any metal near the probe to see if electomagnetism is
being used? This might explain the short span that the nutrient remains
activated. Perhaps the dissolved nutrients get polarized temporarily
much like a magnetic water softener. This softening might make for an
easier uptake by the plants.
Just my 2 cents
Dave
PS: I'd love to know more about the cancer report offline. My mom is a
survivor without chemo or radiation. My dad died of mustard gas chemo.
She chose to live and become a vegetarian!
--
_______________________________________
«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
A remodeler, drummer, Kindred Spirit...
Put a pebble in your pocket and a penny in your shoe!
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Subject: Jewel stays
From: Peggy & Emmett
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 16:06:35 -0500
Hey Jewel..You go girl. That's what I like, spirit. It' what carries us
through. Em
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Subject: Re: Analogy
From: "Jewel" <1mastiff@amigo.net>
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 14:09:49 -0700
> Have you placed any metal near the probe to see if electomagnetism is
> being used?
>
No I haven't tried that Dave, I'll do it. If you don't hear from me, that
means it wasn't magnetic. If it is, I'll report.
> PS: I'd love to know more about the cancer report offline. My mom is a
> survivor without chemo or radiation. My dad died of mustard gas chemo.
> She chose to live and become a vegetarian!
> --
That's great that your mom had success. Dr. Carl Simonton (many books
available) has shown that wanting to die is behind many cancer cases, and
that even "write off" terminal patients can recover if they REALLY chose to
live, change their attitude and life.
I've gotten several off line requests about cancer, and my husband is in the
middle of preparing a response (its a lot of info!).
Jewel
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Subject: Re: Jewel stays
From: "Jewel" <1mastiff@amigo.net>
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 14:10:46 -0700
thanks for the support Em.
----- Original Message -----
From: Peggy & Emmett
To:
Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 1999 2:06 PM
Subject: Jewel stays
> Hey Jewel..You go girl. That's what I like, spirit. It' what carries us
> through. Em
>
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Subject: Magnetic
From: "Jewel" <1mastiff@amigo.net>
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 14:18:24 -0700
> Have you placed any metal near the probe to see if electomagnetism is
> being used?
I just tried it with a steel knife, and it isn't magnetic (at least in the
normal sense of the word). But there are magnetic fields that don't grab
metal, so that's not out of the question.
Jewel
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Subject: Re: Analogy
From: Marc & Marcy
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 14:30:00 -0700
Placing a piece of metal near a probe or other device is not
a dependable test for magnetic fields.
Marc S. Nameth
Jewel wrote:
>
> > Have you placed any metal near the probe to see if electomagnetism is
> > being used?
> >
> No I haven't tried that Dave, I'll do it. If you don't hear from me, that
> means it wasn't magnetic. If it is, I'll report.
>..snip..
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Subject: Re: Where in Virginia
From: Bertmcl
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 16:50:20 EST
Pat,
I am NEW KENT COUNTY, so we are not far away.
Are you in operation?
Hydroponic or Aquaponics?
Just Fish raising?
If yes to any of the above do you allow visitors?
Thanks,
Bert McLaughlin
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Subject: mailing lists
From: dbenhart@essex1.com (David Benhart)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 16:24:17 -0800
how do I find a list of available mailing lists?
Dave Benhart
Shore Acres Greenhouse
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Subject: Re: mailing lists
From: Jon Hays
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 15:59:02 -0700
David: Try Deja.com and List serve
John Hays
At 05:24 PM 11/02/1999 , you wrote:
>how do I find a list of available mailing lists?
> Dave Benhart
> Shore Acres Greenhouse
John Hays
1903 Pebble Hill Rd.
Carlsbad, NM 88220
1-505-887-0102
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Subject: Re: Analogy
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 18:00:06 -0500
Stay on board Jewel, we need your passion and perspective. All of us
brings alittle disfferent perspective to the picture of life and
hopefully through forums like this we can all benefit. Now, can we get
back to business of growing stuff? ;>)
Adriana
> I'm not trying to pick fights, just
> keep things objective and truthful. If the group doesn't like it, let me
> know and I'll leave it. If they like it, let me know and I'll stay on
> board.
>
> Jewel
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Subject: Re: mailing lists
From: dbenhart@essex1.com (David Benhart)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 17:03:54 -0800
Thank-you Jon
Dave Benhart
Shore Acres Greenhouse
Jon Hays wrote:
> David: Try Deja.com and List serve
> John Hays
>
> At 05:24 PM 11/02/1999 , you wrote:
> >how do I find a list of available mailing lists?
> > Dave Benhart
> > Shore Acres Greenhouse
>
> John Hays
> 1903 Pebble Hill Rd.
> Carlsbad, NM 88220
> 1-505-887-0102
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Subject: Re: Raspberries
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 18:06:22 -0500
> Do you have phone numbers for these places. I would like to trial them
> in my greenhouse.
Hartmanns Plant Co - Lacota, MI 616-253-4281 (no long canes available
until next year. Short canes are still available.
Nourse Farms - S. deerfield, MA 413-665-2658 (not doing long canes this
year but will take orders for short canes until they run out.)
Spooner Farms Puyallup, WA 800-532-5487 (only accespted orders until Nov
1)
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Subject: Cinnamite
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 18:30:58 -0500
Has anybody tried Cinnamite for control of aphids and mites? see
http://www.mycotech.com/new/. It's made by Mycotech, the company that
makes Botanigard. The company literature looks promising.
Adriana
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Subject: Re: Cinnamite
From: Marc & Marcy
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 16:27:15 -0700
Is it an explosive? :>
Marc
Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta wrote:
>
> Has anybody tried Cinnamite for control of aphids and mites? see
> http://www.mycotech.com/new/. It's made by Mycotech, the company that
> makes Botanigard. The company literature looks promising.
>
> Adriana
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Subject: Re: Magnetic Fields
From: Dave Miller
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 18:31:49 -0500
Marc or Jewel,
Is this because the gauss is too low to attract metal?
Dave
--
_______________________________________
«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
A remodeler, drummer, Kindred Spirit...
Put a pebble in your pocket and a penny in your shoe!
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Subject: Re: Cinnamite
From: "Wendy Nagurny"
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 19:19:15 -0500
>Is it an explosive? :>
>
>Marc
lol This does sound like an organic based explosive.
On a more serious note, there are predatory mites (mites that eat other
mites) that can be purchased for control of plant mites. I think "Gardens
Alive" sells them. I am sure there are other suppliers that will give
quantity discounts for commercial greenhouses.
Wendy
>
>Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta wrote:
>>
>> Has anybody tried Cinnamite for control of aphids and mites? see
>> http://www.mycotech.com/new/. It's made by Mycotech, the company that
>> makes Botanigard. The company literature looks promising.
>>
>> Adriana
>
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| Message 23 |
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Subject: Re: Magnetic Fields
From: Marc & Marcy
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 17:39:44 -0700
Dave Miller wrote:
>
> Marc or Jewel,
>
> Is this because the gauss is too low to attract metal?
>
Could be.
Depends on the magnetizing scheme also.
How is the magnet formed? Straight wire? Loop? Solenoid?
Torrid? Coaxial? Twin line?
Is it Alternating or Direct Current?
What is the frequency of operation?
What is the field strength?
If it is an alternating current type of scheme then the
frequency may be higher than the metal alloy or mass can or
will respond to.
If self-canceling fields are involved then the net
mechanical result will be zero also.
If a direct current device, then field strength would be one
thing and orientation another.
Some stainless steel alloys (and other alloys for that
matter) have poor magnetic properties so a piece of that
metal can mislead an investigator.
If shielding is used then it can block the magnetic field.
A pregnant question - is it an electrostatic device and not
electromagnetic? Is it intended to be mixed mode?
Several schemes immediately pop into my mind.
Is it using feedback from a radiated field to create
rotating synthetic apertures and automatically adjusting the
standing wave ratio so maximum power transfer may be
obtained by satisfying the complex conjugate matching of
generator and load? This scheme could also lend itself to
detect surrounding gradients in the nutrient solution but
would require a range minimum gating to preclude aliasing
and the associated false inputs to the feedback loop.
Is it a resonant parallel LC circuit with a parallel
resistive element such as a RN100 style MIL STD from, say
CADDOCK?, utilizing eutectic bonding with a 60 to 100 mil
FRN substrate? The overdamped resonating element could be
driven by an integrated circuit non-symmetrical free running
oscillator such as the NE555 with a non-symmetrical duty
cycle also if another 555 is used to phase modulate the
gating with a periodic ramp. The FMR ramping could be used
to detect velocity changes but would suffer range
ambiguities but a heuristic approach could define operation
limits and as long as the boundaries of the control arena
were not violated UNDER a certain limit an increase that
could lead to a phase change could be controlled with this
scheme.
Certainly it could align the various molecules with a very
high magnetic gradient and give an RF pulse of, let's say, a
few milliseconds so as to measure the precession of the
molecules sensitive to the frequency of the RF pulse. This
technology was common in the late 70's. The noise threshold
or baseline could be a problem but with the new developments
in digital signal processing AND low noise MMIC's the state
of the molecules could be determined and the magnetic field
could be modulated between sensor scans until the desired
state of charge in the water is achieved.
Don't really know though. Haven't never seen one.
Marc S. Nameth
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| Message 24 |
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Subject: Re: Magnetic Fields (correction)
From: Marc & Marcy
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 17:51:43 -0700
OOPS! Sorry. I'm not the best proofreader :(
It should read.
..snip..
> were not violated UNDER a certain limit an increase in kinetic energy that
> could lead to a phase change could be controlled with this
> scheme.
>
>..snip..
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