Aquaponics Digest - Sat 11/06/99
Message 1: tomatoes! & fish
from Bill
Message 2: Re: list and tomatoes!
from "Wendy Nagurny"
Message 3: Epazote
from "Wendy Nagurny"
Message 4: Re: list and tomatoes!
from "TGTX"
Message 5: Re: Epazote
from "TGTX"
Message 6: Re: Epazote
from Dave Miller
Message 7: unsubscribe
from " Almero Cloete"
Message 8: permaguard and eco oils
from "Jewel" <1mastiff@amigo.net>
Message 9: Re: permaguard and eco oils
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 10: permaguard, MSDS, waste/compost affects
from Bill
Message 11: unsubscribe
from VermiPlex
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| Message 1 |
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Subject: tomatoes! & fish
From: Bill
Date: 5 Nov 99 22:48:59 PST
VERY good point about tomatoes being hungry. Indians used to bury a fish=
under EACH corn seed. tomatoes don't need that much protein, but their
hunger is very significant. Cherry tomatoes? LOL Or really big fish. =
Bonemeal is a SLOW release fertilizer, which is (normally) meant to be du=
g in
with the soil, before planting, due to poor migration. Ortho, used to ha=
ve a
book dedicated JUST to tomatoes. Mine is, ...somewhere. (I bought almost=
all
of them.) Sterilize the meal if you wish... 140-150 in oven, spread thinl=
y,
measure center temp to be sure, 30 min. TagLine 5 or 10 lb bags is what =
I
use. I wouldn't buy 'bulk,' if there is such a thing.
Unrelated question. Anyone ozonate return water, for bacteriological or =
virol
control? If so, how many grams, etc is the unit? I putz with that, for
incoming household, due to taste. I usually like the Hetch-Hetchy water,=
but
others don't.
Bill OOWON
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| Message 2 |
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Subject: Re: list and tomatoes!
From: "Wendy Nagurny"
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 02:48:15 -0500
>Aquaponics works in a similar fashion. All solid matter should be filtered
>out and the remaining water soluble fish waste is pumped through gravel or
>sand beds and consumed by the plants. Adding bone meal (not water soluble)
>to half your aquaponics system (the hydroponic part) shouldn't do much more
>then pollute both halves with silt. If your tomatoes need more nutrients
>then fix it at the fish end. Add more waste generators to the system or
>change their diet.
Whether you filter your solids or not depends on your setup. If you grow
your plants "hydro" like, i.e. the roots are suspended in water, then you
need to keep the solids from getting to the roots or it clings and forms a
big icky mess that will not make the plants very happy. If you grow your
plants S and S Aqua style with the roots developing in a gravel bed, initial
solids removal is unnecessary. Either way the best use of your fish waste
is to process it and use it for your plants rather then removing it in some
fashion. An in-line bio-filter large enough to handle the volume, will
convert the fish waste (liquid and solid) into usable plant nutrients. You
can either grow plants right in the filter (S and S Aqua) or send the water
through a hydro type arrangement.
Wendy
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Subject: Epazote
From: "Wendy Nagurny"
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 03:32:11 -0500
What is epazote? I know it is used in Mexican cooking, but how? Annual? I
wonder if it will mature here in PA growing season. Perennial? Will
survive the winters? Someone is selling some seed on ebay.
Wendy
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| Message 4 |
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Subject: Re: list and tomatoes!
From: "TGTX"
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 07:07:33 -0600
> Whether you filter your solids or not depends on your setup. If you grow
> your plants "hydro" like, i.e. the roots are suspended in water, then you
> need to keep the solids from getting to the roots or it clings and forms a
> big icky mess that will not make the plants very happy. If you grow your
> plants S and S Aqua style with the roots developing in a gravel bed,
initial
> solids removal is unnecessary. Either way the best use of your fish waste
> is to process it and use it for your plants rather then removing it in
some
> fashion. An in-line bio-filter large enough to handle the volume, will
> convert the fish waste (liquid and solid) into usable plant nutrients.
You
> can either grow plants right in the filter (S and S Aqua) or send the
water
> through a hydro type arrangement.
>
> Wendy
Wendy, very good post. I agree very much with what you just 'splained to
us.
Very concise and to the point. Probably take me 3 pages to convey that.
It's a curse I have. The Irish in me, I suppose.
I would add that solids can build up in gravel systems if the fish feeding
rate is too high or the bed flush rate is not optimal or if oxygen is too
low for what I call "aquatic composting" to proceed at a vigorous pace...but
those are all just part of tweaking the knobs. Every system is a little
different and requires customized operation. I even found that my 18 beds,
which were more or less identically built, had to have slightly different
adjustments made in flows/drainage. Therefore, building optional
flexibility into the operating system by design - ie., before building it,
can be very helpful and well worthwhile.
Ted
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Subject: Re: Epazote
From: "TGTX"
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 07:15:49 -0600
> What is epazote? I know it is used in Mexican cooking, but how? Annual?
I
> wonder if it will mature here in PA growing season. Perennial? Will
> survive the winters? Someone is selling some seed on ebay.
> Wendy
>
Wendy, epazote is an herb used in Mexican cuisine, usually in beans. It is
bitter to me and reminds me of creosote. I grew it one time several years
ago, but have not grown it since I dont really like it and dont use it in my
cooking. It is said to suppress flatulence caused by eating the frijoles. I
am told a little epazote gives a certain something extra in flavor/aroma to
black bean (or turtle bean) dishes, and that it is an acquired taste for
some. I dont plan to acquire that taste, my self.
I usually use cilantro and garlic and serrano peppers with a bit of cumin,
(Cumino), salt, and pepper to my black bean dishes and call it good. (Some
times with a dab of sour cream on top of the black beans). Because it has
some serious aromatic compounds in it, epizote might be a candidate for a
natural insect repellent. I suspect the same of Artemia (wormwood). By that
I mean companion planting or border planting. Pennyroyal and Patchuli might
fall into that category as well.
Just a thought.
Ted
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Subject: Re: Epazote
From: Dave Miller
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 11:57:10 -0500
Wendy,
Epazote is added to bean dishes towards the end of cooking to reduce
human gas, similar to beano and similar to asafoetidia in Indian
cooking. I have never seen the plant but dried it looks like basil or
oregano. I believe it is an annual in colder climates but may be a bush
in the tropics.
Where is Uwe these days?
Dave
--
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Put a pebble in your pocket and a penny in your shoe!
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| Message 7 |
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Subject: unsubscribe
From: " Almero Cloete"
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 19:53:33 +0200
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Subject: permaguard and eco oils
From: "Jewel" <1mastiff@amigo.net>
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 10:53:53 -0700
Adrianna, and anyone else interested, this site has something called
permaguard which is diatomacious earth mixed with natural insecticidal
extracts. http://www.fssc-inc.com/
The oils offered by gardens-alive look interesting too - has anyone used
those?
Jewel
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| Message 9 |
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Subject: Re: permaguard and eco oils
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 13:21:44 -0500
Note that the permaguard has pyrethrins which are lethal to fish.
Gardens Alive has a superb array of products.
Adriana
> Adrianna, and anyone else interested, this site has something called
> permaguard which is diatomacious earth mixed with natural insecticidal
> extracts. http://www.fssc-inc.com/
> The oils offered by gardens-alive look interesting too - has anyone used
> those?
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| Message 10 |
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Subject: permaguard, MSDS, waste/compost affects
From: Bill
Date: 6 Nov 99 13:41:09 PST
>permaguard has pyrethrins which are lethal to fish. =
>> permaguard which is diatomacious earth mixed with natural insecticidal=
> extracts. http://www.fssc-inc.com/ =
>> The oils offered by gardens-alive
EVERYTHING can be simplified, if you just be sure to get an MSDS [Materia=
l
Safety Data Sheet] each time BEFORE you order stuff.
Oils? Some toxic, some not. If not water soluable, will float and smoth=
er
fish. If soluable, may irritate gills. MSDS. Test on a feeder fish, if=
in
doubt. Read fine print. MSDS's are both specific and general. Some
companies declare more than required. You MIGHT have to read between the=
lines, even with them.
Re: Bonemeal/tomatoes, and general. What you've got with auquponics, is =
a
town, a swer system, a wastewater treatment plant, and a compostinf facil=
ity,
with a garden/agriculture customer for the compost.
Some of you may be skipping the wastewater treatment plant portion. This=
can
be OK if the system doesn't overload the 'tank' with nutrients. Nutrient=
s
nurish bacteria and algae. Then THEY consume oxygen.
Timers can be great. They control drainage to remove fish waste w/o remo=
ving
much water. Left with an aquarium bubbler in it, it (concentrated waste)=
won't smell offensively. Bubble a few hours or a day. Left to settle, a=
few
hours, the solids go to the bottom. If they come to the top, you've wait=
ed a
bit too long. THESE solids go into a second thrid tank, where solids set=
tle
even more, or float, or some of each, depending on the nature of your sys=
tem.
(They are often floated to the top with a fine bubbler, and skimmed.) 4t=
h
tank is a 'digester.' They sit there, are stirred usually, (a bubbler ca=
n be
used) and are kept at 95+ degrees F (yes) for 24 hrs. to weeks, to kill
pathogens. (A similar system uses 140 degrees, but accentuates a differen=
t
bacteira, and is smellier, but composts better and faster.) Both, give o=
ff
methane, which can be burned. Removed from the 4th tank, the sludge is al=
lowed
to dry, sometimes mixed w/sawdust, rice hulls, or the like (for normal
gardening, natch' and let compost for ONE year, being turned or somehow =
aired
well.
The above, is a lost sq ft, concetrated version, of bears doing it in the=
woods. How concentrated is yours? Feed fish too much, you pay top $ for=
fish
food (more than purchased compost) and turn your water acid and air-defic=
ient.
Plot your $in versus $out. Same with your entire system. Plot pH along=
side. Use a spreadshhet like Microsoft Excel (in Office.) Auto plot it =
with
'Wizards,' into a graph. The coorelations will be most enlightening. Yo=
u'll
SEE results faster, and can quickly adjust.. as quickly as the bio-symbio=
tic
nuances allow. Remember, it takes 6 weeks for the 'ammonia'cycle in a re=
gular
aquarium to balance!
Anyone do crustaceans? I.e., crawdads (Crayfish, fer yawl uppity uns...)=
Bill OOWON =
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| Message 11 |
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Subject: unsubscribe
From: VermiPlex
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 18:17:11 EST
unsubscribe VermiPlex
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