Aquaponics Digest - Sun 11/07/99
Message 1: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Fri 11/05/99
from DAVEINBHAM
Message 2: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Sat 11/06/99
from DAVEINBHAM
Message 3: Nerdie Newbie, Wanna-be's, Co-Op Help
from Bill
Message 4: Neem oil
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 5: Re: permaguard, MSDS, waste/compost affects
from PORTWOODGARDENS@cs.com
Message 6: Re: Nerdie Newbie, Wanna-be's, Co-Op Help
from William Evans
Message 7: Re: permaguard, MSDS, waste/compost affects
from "TGTX"
Message 8: Re: Nerdie Newbie, Wanna-be's, Co-Op Help
from "TGTX"
Message 9: Re: Nerdie Newbie, Wanna-be's, Co-Op Help
from William Evans
Message 10: Re: Nerdie Newbie, Wanna-be's, Co-Op Help
from "TGTX"
Message 11: Re: Neem oil
from "Claude Gelinas"
Message 12: Re: Neem oil
from "TGTX"
Message 13: Re: Neem oil
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 14: OT paulowinia..Re: Nerdie Newbie, Wanna-be's, Co-Op Help
from William Evans
Message 15: Re: list and tomatoes!
from steve spring
Message 16: Re: Nerdie Newbie, Wanna-be's, Co-Op Help
from steve spring
Message 17: Re: Magnetic Fields
from Marc & Marcy
Message 18: Re: OT paulowinia..Re: Nerdie Newbie, Wanna-be's, Co-Op Help
from William Evans
Message 19: Re: Cinnamite for aphids
from wills/nachreiner
Message 20: Big thinkers, help small guys start.
from Bill
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| Message 1 |
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Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Fri 11/05/99
From: DAVEINBHAM
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 12:15:02 EST
In a message dated 11/05/1999 11:53:53 PM Central Standard Time,
aquaponics-digest-request@townsqr.com writes:
<< Does
anybody have the technical information on how to determine neem
concentration?
Adriana
>>
>>*************************************************************************
*******
******
Adriana,
I just bought some Neem oil from Dyna-Gro. $39.50 /qt. On the bottle it says
use 1 oz. per gallon of water and add 1 tsp. dishwashing liquid.
You might also try http;//hometown.aol.neemassoc/index.html
and/or www.neemfoundation.org/ecopot.htm
Hope this helps.
Dave
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Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Sat 11/06/99
From: DAVEINBHAM
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 13:08:07 EST
In a message dated 11/06/1999 11:54:34 PM Central Standard Time,
aquaponics-digest-request@townsqr.com writes:
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| Message 3 |
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Subject: Epazote
From: "Wendy Nagurny"
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 03:32:11 -0500
What is epazote? I know it is used in Mexican cooking, but how? Annual? I
wonder if it will mature here in PA growing season. Perennial? Will
survive the winters? Someone is selling some seed on ebay.
Wendy
>>
>>*************************************************************************
*******
****
Wendy,
Epazote is an herb used mostly in Mexican and Central American cooking. It is
reputed to reduce flatulence for bean eaters. My wife, Dingbat, would dispute
that. I am a bigtime bean eater and often produce enough gas to run a small
car. I got started using Epazote in cooking during a trip to Panama a few
years back. I like the taste it adds to all beans in general and black beans
in particular. I have been growing it in the garden for about 10 years now.
The plant will not withstand freezing weather. It produces zillions of very
tiny seeds and tends to reseed itself very well. Here in Alabama the plant
gets to be about 8 ft tall. Your mileage may vary.
The plant appears to not be attacked by any bugs here, and, damn, do we have
bugs! Lotsa bugs.
Seeds are available from numerous mail order seed companies. I think I got
mine from Parks.Once established, you will not likely ever have to buy seed
again.
Epazote is one of those things you either like the taste of or you don't.
I hope this helps.
Dave
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Subject: Nerdie Newbie, Wanna-be's, Co-Op Help
From: Bill
Date: 7 Nov 99 10:53:43 PST
Doing last minute stuff outside before the showers hit, which I 'see' com=
ing
on the Netscape 'WeatherLabs' site.
As a newbie, I've read about aquaponics. I am a general engineer, and
wastewater also. Amateur gardener.
As a wastewater engineer, only I and another fellow (who now runs the pla=
ce I
was) wanted to create a miniature wastewater plant. It is odne to perfor=
m
studies, and effects where improvement can be had. On a small scale,
everything happens faster, and is more 'ideal.' I.e.: temperature, pH, et=
c.
With winter here/coming, I'd like to consider a couple things. Overwinte=
ring
certain plants, as we have no heat, little cold, and a looong growing sea=
son,
albeit w/little sun...
And turning my aquarium into a miniature aquaponics system.
To whit:
I'd like to recieve info on your systems. I THINK, this would be of gene=
ral
interest... but am most willing to recieve the info to my e-mail, direct.=
I'd like to know everything, and in a quantifiable way as reasonable, or =
as
you have time or inclination. I.e,:
Tank size, dimentions of planters, 'soil' type, plant type, fish type (# =
size,
anything you can tell me), how much they eat, (5 lbs in 3 weeks?, etc) pu=
mp
size or rate, timers, timing cycles. Innuendo, such as 'I used 13 gallon=
plastic garbage containers for...) are invaluable, as they encourage
creativity and diversity.
I'd arrange this in scientific format,(as well as edited, {if need be}
narrative) as I've done sucessfully in more than water industries, and pl=
ot
the data. Folks could 'see' what others are doing. What changes might
improve their system, etc.
I'm helping a fellow now, to do a solar heater for his house, which will
probably heat his aquaponics system/room too, to promote groth in the win=
ter. =
In fact, he told me about this site.
It will tell us, (and others who are 'converting' or are newbies) the siz=
e of
system they might start with. The cost and materials... can save a bundl=
e and
start earlier if they see how others have done it. =
Maybe it'll create more interest, if we are more successful, and show oth=
ers
how easy it is. 'Show' me how YOU did it... and how you now do it. Incl=
ude
mistakes, so we can avoid them. I'd really like to know, myself, and as a=
newbie, have missed many enlightening discussions. I'll begin by culling=
old
posts. As this takes time, send me ones you know I should see. Scan art=
icles
if you wish. Reccommend (or dis recommend) books and magazines. Be crea=
tive.
Be critical.
On one List, they took turns, culling posts for info. One took a certain=
subject matter, and copied/edited URLs, Titles, Stores, etcetera. Poison=
s, to
use and avoid, leaps to mind. Monthly or so, they would post the culled
items, for all to copy. Made for efficiency. We don't all have time to =
do
every little thing. We can help each other. Who wants the poisons list?=
Bill OOWON@Netscape.net
____________________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webm=
ail.netscape.com.
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Subject: Neem oil
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 16:04:12 -0500
What I'm trying to get at Dave is how to compare apples to apples from
various sources. How do I compare the $39.00 / qt from Dynagrow to the
$27/qt stuff from Aloha farms. Is there anything on the Dynagro label
which specifies % of Neem oil and whether it has been concentrated?
> Adriana,
> I just bought some Neem oil from Dyna-Gro. $39.50 /qt. On the bottle it says
> use 1 oz. per gallon of water and add 1 tsp. dishwashing liquid.
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Subject: Re: permaguard, MSDS, waste/compost affects
From: PORTWOODGARDENS@cs.com
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 16:03:27 EST
In a message dated 11/6/99 4:41:38 PM Eastern Standard Time,
OOWON@netscape.net writes:
<< Anyone do crustaceans? I.e., crawdads (Crayfish, fer yawl uppity uns...)
Bill OOWON >>
I am wondering if anyone has ever had experience with fresh water shrimp (Macr
obrachium rosenbergii)?
I have tried to grow them but they seem to be rather hard to grow in a
intensive system.
Marlan
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Subject: Re: Nerdie Newbie, Wanna-be's, Co-Op Help
From: William Evans
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 14:12:09 -0800
whaT about a labyrinthine wetland under greenhouse pressurized plastic
(lots of headroom maybe a few scattered poles to provide some upward
tension)-waste water flowing thru merrily providing fertility to the
myriad plantings both finned and rooted.
>
> As a wastewater engineer, only I and another fellow (who now runs the place I
> was) wanted to create a miniature wastewater plant.
whoopps not zacly miniture...
Overwintering
> certain plants, as we have no heat, little cold, and a looong growing season,
> maybe a reflecting wall on the far end to maximize solar gain into the
wetland under plastic.
billevans
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Subject: Re: permaguard, MSDS, waste/compost affects
From: "TGTX"
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 16:28:27 -0600
>
> I am wondering if anyone has ever had experience with fresh water shrimp
(Macr
> obrachium rosenbergii)?
>
> I have tried to grow them but they seem to be rather hard to grow in a
> intensive system.
>
> Marlan
>
I would not attempt M. rosenbergii if I were trying to achieve a
commercially profitable, intensive aquaculture operation in relatively small
volumes of water . They are very territorial and need lots of surface area
per animal..especially the males. Prawns and shrimp and crawfish taste
great, but I would recommend only trying to raise a few on the bottom of the
tank in polyculture with Tilapia...and only then if you are interested in
homestead food supply, food variety or spectator's interest, in other words,
novelty. One of these days I plan to raise a few hundred Red Claw, the
freshwater Australian Crayfish (Cherax quadricarinatus), in polyculture with
a few thousand Tilapia, but just for fun and personal food treats for yours
truly... not for a business enterprise.
One of these days (after I do the Red Claw-Tilapia polyculture experiment),
just for the heck of it, I plan to throw in a bunch of aquatic species in an
indoor recirc system and just watch what I can achieve. It would consist of
aquatic macrophytes, algae, bacteria, aquatic oligochaetes, molluscs,
finfish, and crustaceans....Naturally I would plug the thing into a
terrestrial plant aquaponics system...or maybe not. The goals might be a
steady animal protein harvest (for my consumption) that has wide variety
(taste and nutritional variety) and that will "sustain itself" with the
smallest amounts of feed, purchased energy, and labor inputs Swingle at
Auburn will turn over in his grave.
I dont think I will try it many times after 5 or 6 attempts end up crashing,
(I plan to have 40 years or so do accomplish this) but it sure will be fun
to try to plan for a year or two before doing it, then building many little
physical niches and biotopes within a single system (not a plain Jane
rectangular or circular aquaculture tank...maybe more like a concave stair
step prismatic or Freznel lens surface with lots of different substrate
types with different particle sizes dominating a given segment at each
depth) and watching it run its course. Kind of like building a big aquarium
or pond-wetland system inside a greenhouse, perhaps 25 to 50 thousand
gallons of water total.
One of these fine days....
Ted
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Subject: Re: Nerdie Newbie, Wanna-be's, Co-Op Help
From: "TGTX"
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 16:30:46 -0600
> whaT about a labyrinthine wetland under greenhouse pressurized plastic
> (lots of headroom maybe a few scattered poles to provide some upward
> tension)-waste water flowing thru merrily providing fertility to the
> myriad plantings both finned and rooted.
>
Wow. Did we just post the same thing at the very same moment or what?
Check it out.
Tedzo.
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Subject: Re: Nerdie Newbie, Wanna-be's, Co-Op Help
From: William Evans
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 16:15:13 -0800
TGTX wrote:
>
> > whaT about a labyrinthine wetland under greenhouse pressurized plastic
> > (lots of headroom maybe a few scattered poles to provide some upward
> > tension)-waste water flowing thru merrily providing fertility to the
> > myriad plantings both finned and rooted.
> >
>
> Wow. Did we just post the same thing at the very same moment or what?
> Check it out.
>
Ya pretty much, but was a logicall coonclusion to come to since the work
demoing same has been done already and proven to be great way to filter
out nutrient..that par tisnt compolex.. I think where the challlenge
comes in is figuring the inputs( plants , and critters)
IMO the pork producers shold plant Paulowinia around their waste
lagoons to suck up the excess nitrate, P, K, etc... fastest growing
ttree on this planet....
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| Message 10 |
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Subject: Re: Nerdie Newbie, Wanna-be's, Co-Op Help
From: "TGTX"
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 18:30:08 -0600
> IMO the pork producers shold plant Paulowinia around their waste
> lagoons to suck up the excess nitrate, P, K, etc... fastest growing
> ttree on this planet....
>
O.K. here we go. Speak to us of Paulowinia.
Ideals and practicals.....Full speed ahead, Bill.
Ted
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Subject: Re: Neem oil
From: "Claude Gelinas"
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 00:57:17 +0000
--PART-BOUNDARY=.19911080057.ZM859.phyto.qc.ca
Content-Description: Text
Content-Type: text/plain ; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Zm-Decoding-Hint: mimencode -q -u
The active ingredient of Neem oil is azadirachtin so you need to look at =
the
amount they have in the bottle.
The higher it is the best it will be. Normally Neem Oil is pure but the w=
ay
that they extract it may give lower content in active ingredient.
The one I use is from Dominican Republic and is about 12$ / litre
-- =
=
Claude G=E9linas Agr., D.T.A.
PHYTO Ressources
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Varennes, Qu=E9bec, Canada T=E9l: (450) 652 9764 Fax : (450) 652 6=
182
Des questions sur les insectes et maladies des plantes ornementales ?
Want to know more about ornamental plant pest ?
http://www.phyto.qc.ca
=
--PART-BOUNDARY=.19911080057.ZM859.phyto.qc.ca--
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Subject: Re: Neem oil
From: "TGTX"
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 18:57:02 -0600
>The active ingredient of Neem oil is azadirachtin
Can you tell us anything about the biochemistry and activity of
azadirachtin?
Ted
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Subject: Re: Neem oil
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 20:21:27 -0500
Claude,
Can you give some source information for the Dominican neem? I like the
price.
Adriana
Claude Gelinas wrote:
>
> The active ingredient of Neem oil is azadirachtin so you need to look at the
> amount they have in the bottle.
>
> The higher it is the best it will be. Normally Neem Oil is pure but the way
> that they extract it may give lower content in active ingredient.
>
> The one I use is from Dominican Republic and is about 12$ / litre
>
> --
>
> Claude Gélinas Agr., D.T.A.
> PHYTO Ressources
> ========================================================================
> Varennes, Québec, Canada Tél: (450) 652 9764 Fax : (450) 652 6182
> Des questions sur les insectes et maladies des plantes ornementales ?
> Want to know more about ornamental plant pest ?
> http://www.phyto.qc.ca
>
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Subject: OT paulowinia..Re: Nerdie Newbie, Wanna-be's, Co-Op Help
From: William Evans
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 18:05:12 -0800
dsensity of balsawood, deeply taprooted, fodder(big leaves), lightweight
hardwood, finishes like mahogany,no dimensional changes w/ changes in
humidity, easy to mill, grows to 70-80 feet in 8 years(16 inch caliper),
grows repeatedly from the stump, strong, can grow 20 feet first year,
etc.
bille
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Subject: Re: list and tomatoes!
From: steve spring
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 20:16:16 -0800
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Sorry Mike,
I agree with Joel.
Aquaponics, hydroponics, tilapia & aquaculture are so very closely intertwined.
I'm on all four of these lists. Some information you can use and some you can't.
I've been gone for 3 days and when I got home I had 87 messages from these
lists. I went through them and deleted 99.9% of them. It took only a moment to
do this. But you never know when you can use some, nonrelated, information. Hey,
what the heck, these forums are for general BS and sometimes VERY intellectual
conversation. I usually enjoy them even if they don't directly apply to what I
am dealing with.
If you don't like what you see, then just DELETE it.
Please, please don't get offended by this. Just my thoughts.
Steve
MUDDTOO wrote:
> In a message dated 11/5/99 7:13:24 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> MCOMET@south-lewis.moric.org writes:
>
> > Can anyone tell me when this list serv is going to get away from
> hydroponics
> > and back to aquaponics?
> > Maybe it is just me, but I was under the impression that this group was
> for
> > those of us who grew fish AND
> > plants - not just plants!!!
>
> Mike - it's just you. Hydroponics and aquaponics are related, with the
> source of the nutrient for the plants being the major difference. The hydro
> folks control their nutrient levels thru water soluble chemicals and aqua
> folks thru filtered fish waste. You may have noticed that the hydroponic
> folks, in their plant discussions, use only water soluble chemicals.
> Anything else won't be taken up into the plants and will pollute the system.
> Aquaponics works in a similar fashion. All solid matter should be filtered
> out and the remaining water soluble fish waste is pumped through gravel or
> sand beds and consumed by the plants. Adding bone meal (not water soluble)
> to half your aquaponics system (the hydroponic part) shouldn't do much more
> then pollute both halves with silt. If your tomatoes need more nutrients
> then fix it at the fish end. Add more waste generators to the system or
> change their diet.
>
> I grow a lot of tomatoes and they like their nutrient strong. It would take
> a lot of water soluble fish waste to satisfy a bunch of tomato plants.
> Perhaps your tomatoes would grow better planted in the garden with frequent
> doses of the solid waste you collected.
>
> Joel
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Sorry Mike,
I agree with Joel.
Aquaponics, hydroponics, tilapia & aquaculture are so very
closely intertwined. I'm on all four of these lists. Some information
you can use and some you can't.
I've been gone for 3 days and when I got home I had 87 messages from
these lists. I went through them and deleted 99.9% of them. It took only
a moment to do this. But you never know when you can use some, nonrelated,
information. Hey, what the heck, these forums are for
general BS and sometimes VERY intellectual conversation. I usually enjoy
them even if they don't directly apply to what I am dealing with.
If you don't like what you see, then just DELETE it.
Please, please don't get offended by this. Just my thoughts.
Steve
MUDDTOO wrote:
In a message dated 11/5/99 7:13:24 AM Pacific Standard
Time,
MCOMET@south-lewis.moric.org writes:
> Can anyone tell me when this list serv is going to get away from
hydroponics
> and back to aquaponics?
> Maybe it is just me, but I was under the impression that this
group was
for
> those of us who grew fish AND
> plants - not just plants!!!
Mike - it's just you. Hydroponics and aquaponics are related,
with the
source of the nutrient for the plants being the major difference.
The hydro
folks control their nutrient levels thru water soluble chemicals and
aqua
folks thru filtered fish waste. You may have noticed that the hydroponic
folks, in their plant discussions, use only water soluble chemicals.
Anything else won't be taken up into the plants and will pollute the
system.
Aquaponics works in a similar fashion. All solid matter should
be filtered
out and the remaining water soluble fish waste is pumped through gravel
or
sand beds and consumed by the plants. Adding bone meal (not water
soluble)
to half your aquaponics system (the hydroponic part) shouldn't do much
more
then pollute both halves with silt. If your tomatoes need more
nutrients
then fix it at the fish end. Add more waste generators to the
system or
change their diet.
I grow a lot of tomatoes and they like their nutrient strong.
It would take
a lot of water soluble fish waste to satisfy a bunch of tomato plants.
Perhaps your tomatoes would grow better planted in the garden with
frequent
doses of the solid waste you collected.
Joel
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| Message 16 |
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Subject: Re: Nerdie Newbie, Wanna-be's, Co-Op Help
From: steve spring
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 21:09:26 -0800
Sometimes I just laugh at this forum (in good taste). Yes, you are
right...here we go again. Kind of like when I was doing Multi Level
Marketing (MLM), always some sucker out there who is going to show you
how to make a $1M in the next 30 days...of course he/she himself
personally doesn't have a p.. to p... in!!
SS
TGTX wrote:
> > IMO the pork producers shold plant Paulowinia around their waste
> > lagoons to suck up the excess nitrate, P, K, etc... fastest growing
> > ttree on this planet....
> >
>
> O.K. here we go. Speak to us of Paulowinia.
> Ideals and practicals.....Full speed ahead, Bill.
>
> Ted
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| Message 17 |
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Subject: Re: Magnetic Fields
From: Marc & Marcy
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 20:34:01 -0700
> Marc,
>
> I can only hope that you, Marc.. of all people... are not hyper-sensitive or
> violently allergic to the following viscious, unfriendly, unobjective attack
> and the profoundly negative, derisive, back stabbing, shoot you in the back
> blurb, which up until recently might have passed for common, everyday
> banter, discussion, journalistic debate, and social parlance, (but.... who
> can tell when the long standing paradigm of meaning and reason are being
> de-constructed, in which the verb "said" becomes rationalized as tacit
> approval, while the verb "claims" becomes..... the very heart of
> darkness...)
>
> So...venturing far out there on the cybersocial limb...and taking a grave
> risk ....I must say...."Whoa There, Marc, Hold the Phone".
I am not sensitive to useful criticism. After 20 years of
college I would be insane if I did.
I think it is incredibly important to a free society.
Professional forums are unthinkable without self criticism.
Without a self criticising society it is inevitable you will
have some power sructure that precludes the common view of
"freedom".
The small farm conference at Columbia, MO was very cool.
Lots of great folks and solid farm buisiness and science. I
was a bit dissapointed in the lack of aqua-hydro-ponics
related stuff but that means if it was easy everyone would
be into it.
Lots of displays. Lots of useful stuff for small farmers. An
increase in conversation about processing licenses from USDA
and State agencies was prevalent. Good info on diversified
operations and year around small farm sales.
Of interest to Aquaponics was a presentation on solar
heating for greenhouses. It is available through SARE. It
directly dovetailed with the discussion on heating and heat
control from a week or two ago.
Finiti Ad Bitemus tongus,
Marc
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| Message 18 |
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Subject: Re: OT paulowinia..Re: Nerdie Newbie, Wanna-be's, Co-Op Help
From: William Evans
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 19:47:20 -0800
William Evans wrote:
>
> dsensity of balsawood, deeply taprooted, fodder(big leaves), lightweight
> hardwood, finishes like mahogany,no dimensional changes w/ changes in
> humidity, easy to mill, grows to 70-80 feet in 8 years(16 inch caliper),
> grows repeatedly from the stump, strong, can grow 20 feet first year,
> etc.
> bille
I challenge anyone to disprove the above- its all true and documented
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| Message 19 |
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Subject: Re: Cinnamite for aphids
From: wills/nachreiner
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 22:23:41 -0600
Sharing your phrustration with aphids. We had some luck with incecticidal
soap. Sprayed the buggers to get them to drown or fly to the edge of a
tank where we could spray them without hurting the water. But have had a
small dieoff of phrogs that we think may be related to the soap. Still
lots of frogs left and we hope to peacefully coexist with them. If we can
get a couple of the tree frogs together, they might start a population that
can keep the aphids down. Might try a few of those ladybugs who come from
brick houses.
Interested in adding mussels to the system. Suggestions for a legal
source? Want to work our way up to the rare and endangered but good
indicators of survivability are needed. Not sure mussels will dig cheese
factory wastes
At 05:26 PM 11/3/99 -0500, you wrote:
>Marc,
>M-Pede and Murphys aren't cutting it either - I tell you these are
>SUPERBUGS! If you could order me up about a million of those miniature
>cannon balls I'll try them:>). Actually, I found a local supplier who
>had Cinnamite in stock - it smells fabulous! I'll be spraying it
>tomorrow and will report back on its effectiveness.
>
>Adriana
>
>> We have used soap/water mix to dry the little suckers out.
>
>
Box185 Plain,Wi 53577
(608) 546-2712
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Subject: Big thinkers, help small guys start.
From: Bill
Date: 7 Nov 99 21:53:12 PST
THIS is REALLY long. IF you skip it, I won't be offended.
>not attempt M. rosenbergii to achieve commercially profitable, intensive=
aquaculture operation .very territorial and need lots of surface area
per animal..especially the males.
EXAMPLE: Of what we already want to accomplish, helping each other w/inp=
ut.
>and crawfish , but I would recommend only trying to raise a few on the
bottom of the tank in polyculture with Tilapia...and only then if you are=
interested in homestead food supply,
EXAMPLE: Ditto, AND I aim to be of service mostly to 'privateers,' more =
than
commercialists, THO' one might join the group as in other gardening sites=
, as
a resident expert.
>consist of aquatic macrophytes, algae, bacteria, aquatic oligochaetes,
molluscs, finfish, and crustaceans...
I would plug the thing into a terrestrial plant aquaponics system...or ma=
ybe
not.
The goals might be a steady animal protein harvest (for my consumption) t=
hat
will "sustain itself" with small amounts of feed, purchased energy, and =
labor
inputs =
EXAMPLE: Broad ranging ideas, while specific! This would be my dream. =
Approach in stages.
>I dont think I will try it many times after 5 or 6 attempts end up crash=
ing,
but it sure will be fun to try to plan for a year or two before doing it,=
then
building many little physical niches and biotopes within a single system
EXAMPLE: Why we ought to pool mental resources efficiently as possible. =
Failures are little fun, and cost resources ($=3Dgreen :>) Going srep by =
step,
using a 'checklist' my Advanced Digital classpartner & I were the only
partnership which had a working circuit, EVERY time. Often, we were firs=
t
done. (Organization pays dividends.)
>like building a big aquarium or pond-wetland system inside a greenhouse,=
25
to 50 thousand gallons
COMMENT: To big for me, probably. 10x12 is the largest structure the ci=
ty
allows w/o permitting, on my 50x100. But I'll crunch the data, start sma=
ll,
dream large.
Overwintering certain plants, as we have no heat, little cold, and a looo=
ng
growing season,
> maybe a reflecting wall on the far end to maximize solar gain into the
wetland under plastic.
REPLY: Sure. North should be insulated & reflective...well known, but I=
mean
simple, fast, now. Am doing it. And plan bigger for next year. Certain
plants don't prefer humidity. Lots to learn, to share, to organize so it=
can
be found and passed on to others who join, new.
>whaT about a labyrinthine wetland under greenhouse pressurized plastic
DETAIL: Pressure may not be OK due to economy of scale for hometypes,
(electricity $) but may be offset by providing air circulation. Sealing =
door,
a hassle for most. It's a nice 'dream,' pragmatism, now. I can tell you=
a
homesteader could probably get by with one small fan, which must be a
squirrelcage type, as they can produce a partial PSI, which is enuf'. (Wh=
at!
No backup!?! & Pwr failure? See? Costs rise.) =
>lots of headroom
DETAIL: Geodestics common for this. 1x2 & 6 mil plastic stapled on. Ch=
eap. =
Tall. Easy. Cool looking, to me. Cheap to heat, by comparison. =
> As a wastewater engineer, only I and another fellow (who now runs the p=
lace
I wanted to create a miniature wastewater plant. =
>whoopps not zacly miniture...
SOLUTION: Start with dream, then sketch, then miniature, to get a
ballpark/handle on INPUTS & OUTPUTS. Scale up! :>)
>Wow. Did we just post the same thing at the very same moment or what?
>Ya pretty much, but was a logicall coonclusion since the same has been p=
roven
way to filter out nutrient..that part isnt complex.. =
NOTE: Two minds, aha! MORE than two, I see. But most of us lack 'dream
funds.' We must work cheaply. Creatively.
>I think where the challenge comes in is figuring the inputs( plants , an=
d
critters)
REPLY: True. On the button. And w/o those I/O's(in ballpark is enuf to=
start with) you can't even consider a design!!!!!!!!
I.E.: Human waste water treatment plant arte designed with a set of
parameters. Altho each plant is custom, rules of thumb apply... 1.7 to 1=
=2E8
Lbs of oxygen will be required per day per person, to treat incoming wate=
r
w/air (aeration tanks - also a main part of 'pre-treatment.')
With YOUR input, I can crunch #'s to give-back rules of thumb, for a few =
types
of systems. I CANNOT overemphasize the importance of adequate input. A
beginner will prefer (need) to have SOME idea of where to start a design.=
Does 'he' need 1 gal per inch of fish (a poor rule of thumb used by amate=
ur
aqari-ists, but DA#M better than none,) per foot of a certain plant?
I thought I'd start with my 50 gal aquarium, this winter. But how many
lettuce plants ought I attempt, can I nourish? (Assumming a leaf lettuce,=
equally balanced numbers (3?) from baby to adult, equals all plants being=
mid-sized.
Shall I use vermiculite, & imitate a hydroponics system? Use a different=
sort
of system? Wastewater has several types. I can choose, but I'd LOVE to =
hear
the entire spectrum, all you experienced folks have tried... failures or =
not. =
On 'List' or not. Names withheld at your request, or not.
I love the way(s) you all think so far. Let me amalgumate, fold, spindle=
,
edit, staple, sort plot crunch info/numbers.. I.E. You started with ##
gallons and ## fish about #" long (for $30) and ## plants in __ soil or _=
__. =
How is one to start? Not dig a swimming pool and buy an inflatable tenni=
s
court. You, YOU, offer diversity. But numbers will tell (almost) all...=
I'd
sure help to hear how you began.
Sorry about the length! Thanks for the thoughts you guys gave! I would =
want
to start very simply. Maybe feeder fish, (which I've grown to 1 ft in th=
e
past, over 3 yrs,) to start the ammonia-bio cycle lettuce is easy to star=
t
with, & uses little light($). This should be able to be scaled for a sch=
ool
kid, classroom, cubscout, homeowner, or more serious type. I know someth=
ing
of hydroponic systems. My soil test kit ($15 for ten tests of P,K,N & pH=
)
should work, as you make a water-solution from the soil for the test anyw=
ay! =
Rapitest, Inc. Product, same name, #1601. =
Distrib by Luster Leaf Products
POB 1067, Chrystal Lake, Il 60039-1067
It's a common product around here.
As Jonny 5 said, "INNNNPUT! MORE INNNPUT!" :>)
Sincerely, Bill OOWON@Netscape.net
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