Aquaponics Digest - Tue 11/09/99




Message   1: Re: Neem oil

             from "Claude Gelinas" 

Message   2: Neem oil

             from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta

Message   3: Cinnamite

             from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta

Message   4: Re: Neem oil

             from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta

Message   5: Re: tomatoes! & fish

             from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta

Message   6: Re: tomatoes! & fish

             from "TGTX" 

Message   7: Re: Cinnamite

             from "Jewel" <1mastiff@amigo.net>

Message   8: Re: Cinnamite

             from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta

Message   9: UNSUBSCRIBE

             from "don" 

Message  10: Aquaponics again! (mostly)

             from Bill 

Message  11: NOT aquaponics 

             from Bill 

Message  12: Re: NOT aquaponics 

             from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta

Message  13: Re: Cinnamite

             from "Jewel" <1mastiff@amigo.net>

Message  14: mad aquaponics

             from "Jewel" <1mastiff@amigo.net>

Message  15: unsubscribe

             from "Donna Fezler" 

Message  16: Re: Cinnamite

             from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta

Message  17: Re: Cinnamite-needa kik it up a notch...

             from William Evans 

Message  18: Re: Cinnamite-needa kik it up a notch...

             from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta

Message  19: Aquaponics subscribe/unsubscribe instructions

             from S & S Aqua Farm 

Message  20: Re: Cinnamite-needa kik it up a notch...

             from William Evans 

Message  21: Re: Cinnamite-needa kik it up a notch...

             from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta

Message  22: Re: Cinnamite-needa kik it up a notch...

             from "Wendy Nagurny" 

Message  23: Re: Neem

             from PORTWOODGARDENS@cs.com

Message  24: Re: tomatoes! & fish

             from Ronald Polka 

Message  25: Re:Re:Re: NOT aquaponics 

             from Bill 

Message  26: Afidz Sprayer?

             from Bill 

Message  27: Marc, Who won the ater debate?

             from Carolyn Hoagland 

Message  28: Re:Mad Cow Prions

             from Carolyn Hoagland 

Message  29: Dioxin

             from "TGTX" 

Message  30: Mad Cow Prions in Aquacultre'

             from Bill 

Message  31: Re: Re:Mad Cow Prions

             from "TGTX" 

Message  32: Re: Marc, Who won the ater debate?

             from Marc & Marcy 

Message  33: Re: tomatoes! & fish

             from steve spring 

.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.

| Message 1                                                           |

'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'

Subject: Re: Neem oil

From:    "Claude Gelinas" 

Date:    Tue, 9 Nov 1999 06:18:16 +0000

--PART-BOUNDARY=.19911090618.ZM1430.phyto.qc.ca

Content-Description: Text

Content-Type: text/plain ; charset=iso-8859-1

Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

X-Zm-Decoding-Hint: mimencode -q -u 

The Dominican Neem oil have 0.5% active ingredient (azadirachtin) and the=

 name

of the product is ACE-Nim EC.

The recommanded dosage is 5 to 10 cc / lt.

Neem can have some phytotoxicity on plant from the legume family so test =

it

before using at large.

Neem oil work as a repellant and antifeedant product mostly on soft body =

insect

and carterpillar. It also affect reproduction and the development of inse=

ct by

inhibiting oviposition and by interfering with larval molt. Also Neem see=

m to

have little effect on most beneficial insect.

It is distributed by:

Instituto Politecnico Loyola

San Cristobal

-- =

 =

  Claude G=E9linas Agr., D.T.A.

  PHYTO Ressources

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

 Varennes, Qu=E9bec, Canada       T=E9l: (450) 652 9764 Fax : (450) 652 6=

182

  Des questions sur les insectes et maladies des plantes ornementales ?

            Want to know more about ornamental plant pest ?

                       http://www.phyto.qc.ca

     =

--PART-BOUNDARY=.19911090618.ZM1430.phyto.qc.ca--

.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.

| Message 2                                                           |

'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'

Subject: Neem oil

From:    Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta 

Date:    Tue, 09 Nov 1999 06:19:34 -0500

Dave,

Very interesting about Dynagrow prices....email has been sent. 

Regarding neem concentration, now we need to know the aza(whatever)

concentration that is normal in unconcentrated neem oil to compare it to

the "conc3entrates" being sold by others.  I may be able to get this

info from Aloha Farms.

> All it says on the label is "Active ingredients Neem Oil 100% ". That,

> presumably, means nothing in the bottle except oil just as it came from the

> little Neems.

> By the way, there appears to be one hell of a markup on Dyna-Gro products.

.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.

| Message 3                                                           |

'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'

Subject: Cinnamite

From:    Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta 

Date:    Tue, 09 Nov 1999 06:43:46 -0500

That mad cow disease is nasty stuff, for sure.  I think I might have

"Mad Aphid Disease" in my greenhouse...

Let me report on the Cinnamite.  They claimed it would kill the aphids

after 6 hours.  I went back after 24 and the little buggers were dancing

in a conga line, happier than ever!  I was very disappointed with the

lack of effectiveness.  Yesterday I treated them to an old standby 

which has worked in the past:  1 part Murphys Oil Soap, 1 part alcohol,

9 parts water.  Then I threw in a couple of tablespoons of Diatomeceous

Earth to sharpen the brew.

Adriana

> Dis be one bad protein. Maybe Adrianna's cinnamite might

> work?

.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.

| Message 4                                                           |

'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'

Subject: Re: Neem oil

From:    Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta 

Date:    Tue, 09 Nov 1999 06:47:06 -0500

Claude,

Would you by any chance have a telephone # or e-mail?

> It is distributed by:

> 

> Instituto Politecnico Loyola

> 

> San Cristobal

.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.

| Message 5                                                           |

'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'

Subject: Re: tomatoes! & fish

From:    Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta 

Date:    Tue, 09 Nov 1999 06:53:13 -0500

> I printed the plans for a 11-plant system

> from "Ron" (one of our associates) that appears to be quite

> synergistic with the Tilapia system. I have been told, however, that I

> will probably run into a P & K deficiency...in dealing with the

> tomatoes. Do either of you have any suggestions as to how I can

> overcome this deficiency w/o hurting the Tilapia?

I wonder if you could rig a nutrient injector in-line between the fish

tank and the plants increading the nutrients tot he optimal level.  In

theory the plants would consume the nutrients and the return water would

be clean and not affect the fish.

What is your stocking density in your 1,600 gallon tank?  I hope you

plan to run more than 11 plants.

Adriana

.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.

| Message 6                                                           |

'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'

Subject: Re: tomatoes! & fish

From:    "TGTX" 

Date:    Tue, 9 Nov 1999 06:50:43 -0600

>

> Dis be one bad protein.

Hmmm...so it seems.  I will check into the Nova transcript and other

references cited.

Thanks for the reading list.

Ted.

.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.

| Message 7                                                           |

'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'

Subject: Re: Cinnamite

From:    "Jewel" <1mastiff@amigo.net>

Date:    Tue, 9 Nov 1999 10:42:07 -0700

> lack of effectiveness.  Yesterday I treated them to an old standby

> which has worked in the past:  1 part Murphys Oil Soap, 1 part alcohol,

> 9 parts water.  Then I threw in a couple of tablespoons of Diatomeceous

> Earth to sharpen the brew.

>

> Adriana

>

Did it work?

Sounds like they're beyond getting out of hand.  I got a postcard from your

aphids inviting ours out to visit you in FL.  Are you sure they're aphids

and not fire ants?  Have you tried burning your greenhouse?

Jewel

.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.

| Message 8                                                           |

'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'

Subject: Re: Cinnamite

From:    Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta 

Date:    Tue, 09 Nov 1999 12:52:09 -0500

Yes, that witches brew works but only on direct contact with the

critters.  Miss one and she keeps right on reproducing...Although over

time the DE residue on the foliage should claim some more victims.I

would love to find an environmentally friendly systemic killer which

kills them when they feed on the plants.

> > lack of effectiveness.  Yesterday I treated them to an old standby

> > which has worked in the past:  1 part Murphys Oil Soap, 1 part alcohol,

> > 9 parts water.  Then I threw in a couple of tablespoons of Diatomeceous

> > Earth to sharpen the brew.

> Did it work?

.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.

| Message 9                                                           |

'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'

Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE

From:    "don" 

Date:    Tue, 9 Nov 1999 10:03:04 -0800

unsubscribe

.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.

| Message 10                                                          |

'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'

Subject: Aquaponics again! (mostly)

From:    Bill 

Date:    9 Nov 99 10:12:50 PST

Mad cow coming back to me... Dec 96 Populkar mechanics, even... Pg 14 Bad=

News, Can be passed to baby cows, but scientists don't know how, maybe ev=

en

sheep... and human can get dementia 10 yrs after injestion.  Good news, n=

o

beef crossed Atlantic to America. (Can you hear it?  'Do you have any jew=

elry,

fruit, beef jerky or beef byproducts on your return?')

Considering we are oxygen carbon life forms, and silicon copper (?) was

suggested in sci-fi (& seriously), as possible covalent bonding causes it=

 to

be perhaps the next most possible, maybe we have a quazi-virus-like form =

a

Martian could evolve from, which takes heat well... (not serious!  "Andro=

meda

Effect/Strain" movie...)

>> plans for a 11-plant system  that I will probably run into a P & K

deficiency dealing with tomatoes. any suggestions, overcome this deficien=

cy

w/o hurting Tilapia?

>could rig a nutrient injector between the fish

tank and the plants nutrients optimal level.plants would consume  nutrien=

ts

return water not affect the fish.

>stocking density in your 1,600 gallon tank?

I hope you plan to run more than 11 plants.

Would LOVE to 'see' the system.  She has a point... a plant-nutrient'loop=

' as

in hydroponics, until nutrient levels are too 'low' for tomatoes, drain t=

hat

to a holding tank, remix tomato nutrient and re-add to their loop, meanwh=

ile

the weak-nutrient tank, 'drips' into fisk tank, at a slow calculated rate=

=2E

This means only the 'thickened' waste flows to the plants**, to reduce fl=

ows,

like a municipal system removes 'solids' and treats them, as it's less to=

 heat

and store for the required time, while the water from the 'influent' has =

been

separated and released, after a quicker treatment.

Query... Algae growth... but then, with tomato, nitrogen level shoul be p=

retty

exhausted, as tomatoes use 5-10-10 ratios, even initially.

Am very interested to 'hear' of the plant/fish/gallon/etc ratios you are

starting with, and massage over time.  THIS would be a great 'study.'  Si=

nce

you're just starting, a blow by major blow accopunt, commented on perhaps=

 by

the more knowlegable of the group, would teach some of us (newbies, as I)=

 a

lot!  As each tomato plant I have uses 20-25 sq ft, 5 ft high in ground, =

but

containers of 20-30 gal size I use a 24" terra cotta pot, but produce a l=

ot

less, AND I read about folks who cut off all but a main stem, I wonder 'h=

ow'

your '11' will be 'configured' or 'trained'?  Greenhouse situation? tank

shape?

  =

Already, I'm picturing 1600 gallons.  Maybe a pool, dug into the yard, li=

ned

w/plastic.  The size of 3- 55 gallons drums, in a 'triangle formation', 5=

units long, maybe just 4 units long, due to voids between drums, lets me

picture 1600 gallons pretty well.  Trough formation, anyway.  Don't know =

if

I'd want a cylinder... A trough woud allow partitioning.  Then I would ha=

ve

less than a labyrinth, but more than a tank.  A compromise, of sorts.

**A modified-trinagle end-view trough, would aid in collecting solid wast=

e

from the bottom, with less pumping and filtering required... tho' less ar=

ea

for bottom feeders.

Bill OOWON

____________________________________________________________________

Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webm=

ail.netscape.com.

.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.

| Message 11                                                          |

'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'

Subject: NOT aquaponics 

From:    Bill 

Date:    9 Nov 99 10:37:51 PST

>> lack of effectiveness.

>Are you sure they're aphids

and not fire ants?  Have you tried burning your greenhouse?

I keep thinking, just knock them off the plants into the water with an ai=

r

blast from a agrden blower, or use a leaf (or regular) vac, for the fish =

to

eat...

Another garden site... some have tarantulas en mass, another has wolf spi=

ders.

 How about them as hungry preditors?  Just HOW MANY lady bugs, et al, doe=

s one

release in 30K sq ft during an epidemic?  And how many did you?  & I'll t=

ry

again, how about cheesecloth over the vents to keep them in?  This would =

be

cheap, easy to apply, temporary... am I missing something?

Maybe you HAVE to pull every other plant, as you're too dense, and 'dispo=

se'

of them, so you (or critters) can get to the problem.  How many aphids on=

 one

plant?  Large or young?  "This is going on too long.  Epsom salts, and so=

ak

the entire plant for an hour a day, mamm.  If that doesn't do the trick, =

we'll

have to amputate."  Pick sections.  Do a sq yd one way, another another w=

ay,

increase concentrations... until they die, or you kill a sq yd of plantin=

gs. =

Typing paper under the plant, or near, if you can might help do a death c=

ount

ratio of effectiveness, the next day.

Bill OOWON

____________________________________________________________________

Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webm=

ail.netscape.com.

.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.

| Message 12                                                          |

'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'

Subject: Re: NOT aquaponics 

From:    Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta 

Date:    Tue, 09 Nov 1999 14:14:56 -0500

Bill,

The blasing method works best for stand-alone plants with sturdy

frames.  Believe me, when you blast 2-3 week old densely seeded

(3-4/inch) tender lettuces and greens they FLATTEN OUT into a mat and

don't come back.  To add insult to injury, you trap the critters in the

middle of the mat.

> I keep thinking, just knock them off the plants into the water with an air

> blast from a agrden blower, or use a leaf (or regular) vac, for the fish to

> eat...

>  How about them as hungry preditors?  Just HOW MANY lady bugs, et al, does one

> release in 30K sq ft during an epidemic?  And how many did you?  

A:  Many thousand ladybugs and lacewings...after consultation with the

nice folks at Gardens Alive (Paula, my Stay-at-Home ladybugs didn't, I'm

glad to hear yours did)

 how about cheesecloth over the vents to keep them in?  This would be

> cheap, easy to apply, temporary... am I missing something?

A:  Yes, several somethings. The vent is 100 feet long along the ridge

of a GLASS ROOF, 20 feet in the air.  Not an easy roof to work on. 

Since this is not a permanent greenhouse for me (it is leased and I will

have to move in the next 6 months) I would rather not spend the time and

risk life and limb to seal the vent.  Fiberglass screening is

preferrable to cheesecloth by the way:>)...

.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.

| Message 13                                                          |

'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'

Subject: Re: Cinnamite

From:    "Jewel" <1mastiff@amigo.net>

Date:    Tue, 9 Nov 1999 12:16:53 -0700

Do you remember an old post about a special sprayer that makes it so the

spray covers 100% of the leaves?  Maybe that would help.  I can try and find

it if you're interested and no one else knows what I'm talking about.

> Yes, that witches brew works but only on direct contact with the

> critters.  Miss one and she keeps right on reproducing...Although over

> time the DE residue on the foliage should claim some more victims.I

> would love to find an environmentally friendly systemic killer which

> kills them when they feed on the plants.

>

>

.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.

| Message 14                                                          |

'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'

Subject: mad aquaponics

From:    "Jewel" <1mastiff@amigo.net>

Date:    Tue, 9 Nov 1999 12:19:34 -0700

Since we're talking about the mad cow thing, I thought I should mention that

I saw a news story on a man in FL who got it because he was taking

supplements from bovine sources.

.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.

| Message 15                                                          |

'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'

Subject: unsubscribe

From:    "Donna Fezler" 

Date:    Tue, 9 Nov 1999 13:51:12 -0600

.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.

| Message 16                                                          |

'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'

Subject: Re: Cinnamite

From:    Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta 

Date:    Tue, 09 Nov 1999 15:02:20 -0500

Jewel,

That's the electrostatic sprayer and it would definitely help.  I'd love

one but prices start at $1,200 and go up from there...

> Do you remember an old post about a special sprayer that makes it so the

> spray covers 100% of the leaves?  Maybe that would help.

.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.

| Message 17                                                          |

'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'

Subject: Re: Cinnamite-needa kik it up a notch...

From:    William Evans 

Date:    Tue, 09 Nov 1999 12:06:17 -0800

 All this talk of cinnnamite  has me thinking of habanero pepper,garlic

home brew

with a peppermint castile chaser.

.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.

| Message 18                                                          |

'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'

Subject: Re: Cinnamite-needa kik it up a notch...

From:    Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta 

Date:    Tue, 09 Nov 1999 15:08:44 -0500

Ok Emeril.  I did a similar brew over the summer:  a strong peppermint

tea with garlic, onion, cayenne pepper and a couple of shots of Tabasco

in a M-Pede soap base.  Where's Mike the school teacher?  We could

really use some controlled experiments to test the effectiveness of the

various commercial and home-brews on bugs.  I'd be happy to send you

some infested plants :>)...

Adriana

>  All this talk of cinnnamite  has me thinking of habanero pepper,garlic

> home brew

> with a peppermint castile chaser.

.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.

| Message 19                                                          |

'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'

Subject: Aquaponics subscribe/unsubscribe instructions

From:    S & S Aqua Farm 

Date:    Tue, 09 Nov 1999 14:06:26 -0600

As a reminder to all, if you wish to UNSUBSCRIBE (as you would if you wanted

to delete an email address):

Send a message to:

aquaponics

in the body (or message area) type:

unsubscribe

To SUBSCRIBE, send an e-mail to:

aquaponics

in the body (or message area) type:

subscribe

For the DIGEST version:

To subscribe to the digest, send an e-mail to:

aquaponics-digest-request@townsqr.com

in the body (or message area) type:

subscribe

To unsubscribe the digest, etc., etc.

Any problems, please email me directly at  and I'll

take care of it from here.

Paula

S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775  417-256-5124

Web page  http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/

.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.

| Message 20                                                          |

'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'

Subject: Re: Cinnamite-needa kik it up a notch...

From:    William Evans 

Date:    Tue, 09 Nov 1999 12:33:45 -0800

Adriana

> 

> >  All this talk of cinnnamite  has me thinking of habanero pepper,garlic

> > home brew

> > with a peppermint castile chaser.

 Its best to crush good amoounts of these ingredients and mix w / water.

Then bottle in a gallon jug and let steep outside( or in side if warmer

there) 

for a few months. THe woofy qoutient changes with this aging

process-worth the wait. After a spell, run it thru  a good

blender/juicer and strain well.Whats left over should go into the next

brew- with new ingredients of cource

bill/10

.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.

| Message 21                                                          |

'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'

Subject: Re: Cinnamite-needa kik it up a notch...

From:    Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta 

Date:    Tue, 09 Nov 1999 17:14:14 -0500

Bill,

Are you sure this aging process doesn't add any bacteria or other nasty

stuff tot he plants?  A few months?  Really?  (Mike, here's another one

to test - aged vs fresh brew.)  Woofy?  I love it when you talk

technical:>)... 

Adriana

>  Its best to crush good amoounts of these ingredients and mix w / water.

> Then bottle in a gallon jug and let steep outside( or in side if warmer

> there) for a few months.

.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.

| Message 22                                                          |

'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'

Subject: Re: Cinnamite-needa kik it up a notch...

From:    "Wendy Nagurny" 

Date:    Tue, 9 Nov 1999 17:48:07 -0500

Adriana, try a mix using that pseudo orange mint.  Mine seems to be

impervious to all forms of bug munching.  Not grasshoppers, slugs, aphids or

anything else that I can see has munched on mine.  The other mints have all

had their share of bug marks, but I am unable to find a single bite out of

the orange mint.  It may be good for something after all. 

Wendy

>Ok Emeril.  I did a similar brew over the summer:  a strong peppermint

>tea with garlic, onion, cayenne pepper and a couple of shots of Tabasco

>in a M-Pede soap base.

.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.

| Message 23                                                          |

'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'

Subject: Re: Neem

From:    PORTWOODGARDENS@cs.com

Date:    Tue, 9 Nov 1999 18:28:28 EST

Azatin XL contains 3%  Azadirachtin.

marlan

.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.

| Message 24                                                          |

'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'

Subject: Re: tomatoes! & fish

From:    Ronald Polka 

Date:    Tue, 09 Nov 1999 16:30:48 -0700

At 10:03 PM 11/8/1999 -0800, you wrote: 



I am breeding and raising Tilapia. I will have my 1600 gal system set up

within a few days. I want to raise "summertime" tomatoes in the

"wintertime" in Wisconsin. I printed the plans for a 11-plant system from

"Ron" (one of our associates) that appears to be quite synergistic with

the Tilapia system. I have been told, however, that I will probably run

into a P & K deficiency...in dealing with the tomatoes. Do either of you

have any suggestions as to how I can overcome this deficiency w/o hurting

the Tilapia? 

Yours...........Steve 

 

Steve

        Your concerns about P and K are valid for maxmizing yield. In a

commercial aquaponics facility this could be very troublesome. However

for the homeowner it may not be a big deal if you are willing to live

with less than optimum yields. M. R. Mcmurty documents work that he did

in 1990 on an aquaponic system at North Carolina State University. He

raised Blue Tilapia, tomatoes, cucumbers, and bush beans. The hydro

system was in a sand bed, fed by the tank recirculation water. The aqua

system was very lightly loaded, 0.014 lb/gal at stocking with a growout

to 0.024 lb/gal at the end of the experiment, run time 86 days. This low

stocking density produced a dilute recirc stream.

        Measured average nutrient values in the beds were P 9.4 ppm, K 0.02, Ca

0.3, Mg 0.11, pH 6.03.

        

        Average aquaculture water quality as follows, Temp 80 deg, pH 6.5, NO2-N

0.1 ppm, (NH3 and NH4+) - N 0.9 ppm, DO 2.7 ppm, alkalinity 20. 

The difference in water quality between hydroponics and aquaculture is

most likely due to the means of pulling recirc water from the bottom of

the fish tanks.

         Average tomato yield for the 86 day experiment was 0.93 lb/ft2. This

yield is very low but is for a limited amount of time and I believe the

purpose of the experiment was not to maximize yields but to examine

overall system feasibility with no addition of nutrients. In the

conclusion he states that the low nutrient strength does not appear to be

detrimental because the hydro system sees freshly rejuvenated nutrient

continually, unlike a standard hydro system where the nutrient is mixed,

then goes through strength changes and chemical changes with time until

it becomes unbalanced. The nutrient strength of the aqua recirc water is

relatively constant, increasing slowly as the fish grow and are fed more

which provides more nutrients for the plants. At the time this work was

done hydro yields were much lower than they are today so the actual

numbers are somewhat outdated by recent advances in the technology. 

        For more the entire paper see McMurtry, M. R., Nelson, P. V., Sanders,

D. C., Hodges, L., "Sand Culture of Vegetables Using Recirculated

Aquacultural Efluents", Applied Agricultural Research, Vol. 5, No. 4, pp

280-284

Ron Polka

Southwest Technology Development Institute

New Mexico State University

Box 30001, Dept 3SOL

Las Cruces, NM  88003

rpolka@nmsu.edu

.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.

| Message 25                                                          |

'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'

Subject: Re:Re:Re: NOT aquaponics 

From:    Bill 

Date:    9 Nov 99 15:40:57 PST

>Many thousand ladybugs and lacewings...after consultation with the

nice folks at Gardens Alive (Paula, my Stay-at-Home ladybugs didn't, I'm

glad to hear yours did)

**Saw a site that had 1700 bugs for $17, which seems the rate at retail..=

=2E but

had a gallon, 70K, for about $50, NOW that's a good rate.  Tho' admittedl=

y, an

expense.

>Not an easy roof to work on, 20' hi. Fiberglass screening is preferrable=

 to

cheesecloth by the way:>)...

I supposed it'd be high, but thopught tossing a string over, tied to the

corner of the cheesecloth, and tied to a sock with a handful of sand... c=

ould

be controlled from the ground. Mine is retail, $1/SqYd. Fiberglass leaves=

 you

with a better item to have later, but maybe harder to control from the gr=

ound.

 Maybe open fewer vents, so screen fewer. Grasping at straws to help.  In=

Silicon valley we toss out NAY idea, as it might germinate another, that =

is

better.

Bill

____________________________________________________________________

Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webm=

ail.netscape.com.

.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.

| Message 26                                                          |

'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'

Subject: Afidz Sprayer?

From:    Bill 

Date:    9 Nov 99 15:48:59 PST

>>the electrostatic sprayer and it would definitely help.  but prices sta=

rt at

$1,200 and go up from there...

OK.  Not as good, but no (almost) air blast, & cheap, $25-$50, Wagner Air=

less

paint sprayer, with fine jet-orifice.

Bill

____________________________________________________________________

Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webm=

ail.netscape.com.

.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.

| Message 27                                                          |

'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'

Subject: Marc, Who won the ater debate?

From:    Carolyn Hoagland 

Date:    Tue, 09 Nov 1999 18:43:04 -0500

>Only one debate about water.  The notion that distilled or

>pure water is "lifeless" and "removes" important minerals

>from the body vs pure water isn't bad for you. Lasted 30

>seconds with a 3 count both shoulder pin.

So is pure water OK to drink?

Carolyn

.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.

| Message 28                                                          |

'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'

Subject: Re:Mad Cow Prions

From:    Carolyn Hoagland 

Date:    Tue, 09 Nov 1999 18:51:34 -0500

I'll bet that scientists will find out that the only thing that

"neutralizes" these

prions is some kind of biological process (like digestion by an earthworm or

bacteria

or something...)

Meanwhile, be sure to wear a dust mask when using bone meal.  There are some

folks

that say that most of our beef, chicken, sheep, and pork is infected in this

country,

and inhalation gives the prions a direct shot into your system.

Isn't it weird.  I've read the books.  I believe the problem.  I still eat

meat at

least once (usually twice) a day.   Go figure.

Seems like a great reason to promote fish as a "safe" protein product.  Just

don't

add that "all purpose protein meal" to your fish feed.  Its mostly rendered from

downer cows, sheep etc.....)  Incredible that we could turn a cow into a

carnivore -

and they seem to like it....

Carolyn

.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.

| Message 29                                                          |

'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'

Subject: Dioxin

From:    "TGTX" 

Date:    Tue, 9 Nov 1999 19:09:56 -0600

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF2AE6.0280BFA0

Content-Type: text/plain;

        charset="iso-8859-1"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

For those who might be curious or concerned about DIOXIN...especially as =

it might relate to growing and consuming food....here is something about =

it.  =20

 http://www.junkscience.com/nov99/bjpress.htm

.=20

------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF2AE6.0280BFA0

Content-Type: text/html;

        charset="iso-8859-1"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable















For those who might be curious or concerned=20 about DIOXIN...especially as it might relate to growing and = consuming=20 food....here is something about it.   
 
 http://www.junkscie= nce.com/nov99/bjpress.htm
 
.
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF2AE6.0280BFA0-- .------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------. | Message 30 | '------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------' Subject: Mad Cow Prions in Aquacultre' From: Bill Date: 9 Nov 99 17:30:27 PST >great reason to promote fish as a "safe" protein product. Just don't add that "all purpose protein meal" to your fish feed. "Just don't drink the water," But seriously, folks... A response I had was a pressurized greenhouse, streams... And HE got a response, similar,... two minds (at least) who are gravitating toward aquaculture/biospheres. One told of the day he'd like to plan a labyrinth system, and named all s= orts of critters which would occupy it. (No Aphidz, I noted... :>( I think it would be great to do this as a 'food chain.' I recall seeing aquariums, which have been literally sealed, for a year! Incl gasses... (Natcherally, no output, but fish alive, w/no external inputs) While greater quanities of output require more input (I too, am a tomato = fan,) it'd be nice to add some of that input as self re-creating. Is breeding = the fish the norm, or need we restock always? Too bad brine shrimp can't bre= ed there... but what easy steps can we take to make this a more symbiotic environ? A little more biospere-ish. Finding lots (remember, I'm new at this) but some of the best "edu" sites= , seemed blocked by server, or are old addresses. Hit everything 37.com offered. The recent N,P, K residuals & fish wt gains over 8 months was v= ery very interesting, tho' pure output in wt is not as desireable to me as ha= ving 2-5 'things' in my 'water'-garden. Thx! Bill OOWON .------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.

Back to Index