Aquaponics Digest - Sun 12/12/99
Message 1: unsubscribe
from Malcolm Bevege
Message 2: Re: using fish effluent
from "M. Brody"
Message 3: Re: using fish effluent
from "M. Brody"
Message 4: Re: using fish effluent
from "M. Brody"
Message 5: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Wed 12/08/99
from Gail Hall
Message 6: Re: More thoughts on wholesalers + packaging question
from PORTWOODGARDENS@cs.com
Message 7: Re: More thoughts on wholesalers + packaging question
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 8: Re: Dealing with wholesalers
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 9: State Market Development Assistance, was Re: More thoughts on
wholesalers
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 10: Aquaponics in Ontario
from "Nilo Lancita"
Message 11: Aquasafra
from "Jay Myers"
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Subject: unsubscribe
From: Malcolm Bevege
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 22:47:22 +1100
>
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Subject: Re: using fish effluent
From: "M. Brody"
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 14:48:05 +0200
Thank you S & S Aqua Farm for your letter 0n 11:58 02/12/1999 -0600.
>
>If your trickle filter were replaced with a growbed system, the cost of
>running the extra filter machinery could be eliminated. Properly designed,
>you could enhance your O2 gain at the same time.
>
>Probably is --- can you give us a little more detail about your system; i.e,
>total equipment, step-by-step movement of the water, whether you are
>completely recirculating or using a run-to-waste or run-to-outside growing
>then run-to-waste? Many of these things will affect the total operating
>cost and efficiency of the system.
>
>We, like Ted, use a gravel bed system, recirculating the water to eliminate
>excess water use. With the available media you have, is there any material
>that could be substituted? I'm assuming you have sand, but we've generally
>found that fine sand tends to pack down too readily to be efficient.
>
>Paula
Dear Paula,
My system doesn't recycle the water because of IFOAM regulations for
organic crops that disallows hydroponic farming allowing only plants whose
roots are connected to the soil.
One problem with the Asian systems is that for my needs they are not
intensive enough since I have limited space and water and must make the
maximum amount of income from a small unit.
>From what type of reclaimed water do you produce fish? How do you solve
the problems of heavy metals or bacterial contamination in the fish meat?
I also heard that floating hyacinth cause a lack of dissolved oxygen in the
water.
Thank you for your post.
Alon Zimmerman
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Subject: Re: using fish effluent
From: "M. Brody"
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 14:52:26 +0200
Thank you Fred Chambers for your letter 0n 09:11 02/12/1999 -0800.
>One suggestion is to grow more than carp in your ponds. Read the papers
>by Ana Milstein. When she cultures tilapia with carp, her fish yeilds
>increase significantly on the same feed ration. Taking the fact that 80%
>of world aquaculture is polyculture in warm water, Milstein looked at food
>webs in low-input aquaculture, and found that some species synergize.
>
>In a nutshell, she found:
>Silver carp gleen the large algae from the pond, and keep the plankton in a
>high growth rate;
>Tilapia encourage small phytoplankton, which eventually settle out of the
>water column
>Common carps provide at least half of their food from the pond bottom;
>Energy from the sun can enhance natural food supply;
>Balanced polyculture minimizes antagonism and increases synergy;
>
>In my experience in natural systems, many fish species coexist in the same
>water body. To optimize aquatic output, it is best to mimic the natural
>system with a polyculture. That's what we try to do at the Lyle Center for
>Regenerative Studies.
>http://www.csupomona.edu/~crs/
>
>That's my 2-cents
>Fred
>
Dear Fred,
Poly-culture is good for not so intensive system- also, I do have some
silver carp.
The main reason I don't have Tilapia is because my water temperature gets
very low [6 degrees] which is intolerable for Tilapia.
Thanks for your post.
Alon Zimmerman
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Subject: Re: using fish effluent
From: "M. Brody"
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 14:55:57 +0200
Thank you TGTX for your letter 0n 19:37 01/12/1999 -0600.
>Alon,
>I am still a fan of pea gravel as a growing medium. 1/4 to 3/8 inches in
>diameter. My pea gravel is only about 10% carbonate material, or "acid
>digestible". The remaining 90% is silicate-based alluvial mineral (granite,
>quartz, etc..). Combine this with fish culture effluent and you can have a
>remarkably good plant growing system, provided the dissolved oxygen content
>and water flow rate is optimized. Hmm...the pumice sounds good, but how are
>you draining and returning the water or, are you just drip irrigating onto
>the ground with no return flow?
>
>Good luck in all your endeavors at the Itamar settlement.
>
>One of these days, I hope that I am able to visit Israel.
>Perhaps I will be able to visit your farm?
>
>Ted
Dear Ted,
I would love to have you for a visit.
I don't know how readily available pea gravel is in Israel.
My system is according to the IFOAM standard- growing only connected to the
soil.
Alon Zimmerman
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Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Wed 12/08/99
From: Gail Hall
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 06:35:47 -0800
>Subject: Re: fish feed
>From: dbenhart@essex1.com (David Benhart)
>Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 18:47:10 -0800
>
>I have watercress that is still growing in northern Illinois My tal=
pia
>love it, they sort of graze on it and I give them much less ( food) .
>If any
>one wants some let me know now I can still send some . E-mail me off l=
ist
>and I can send some, when you put it in a pond or? it grows well.
> Later
I grow watercress in Oregon and have trouble in the winter. We have
pretty low light and, of course, it is coldish. I keep the greenhouse at
50=B0. Could you tell me your conditions there and what pest problems or
other problems you have had and solutions you have tried.
Gail Hall, Tender Greens
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Subject: Re: More thoughts on wholesalers + packaging question
From: PORTWOODGARDENS@cs.com
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 17:55:10 EST
Adriana - Give some thought to using some sort of rubbermaid containers and
pick up the empty one and replace it with a fresh one.
Marlan
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Subject: Re: More thoughts on wholesalers + packaging question
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 20:50:23 -0500
I like that idea Marlan but can't do it at my current location. My
processing area is too limited and reprocessing would be a problem.
Maybe in the future. I still want chefs to be able to see through the
package to identify the contents at a glance.
> Adriana - Give some thought to using some sort of rubbermaid containers and
> pick up the empty one and replace it with a fresh one.
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Subject: Re: Dealing with wholesalers
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 20:43:09 -0600
At 12:58 PM 12/09/1999 -0500, Adriana wrote:
>In planning ahead for the next year I'm considering trying to produce
>larger volumes of a few selected greens and marketing through a
>specialty wholesaler.
Adriana - I almost wrote something negative here about dealing with brokers
and the political arenas the move in, but I deleted it:) I did have some
thoughts while reading through your post. I'd filed it away as being better
answered by someone who's successfully done this or who is at least also
pursuing this avenue, but noticed no one jumped in. So here's a few ideas
on how I might get underway based on the comments you made.
>I've asked my chefs to recommend a wholesaler.
>Now that I have one identified,
I guess this means that your chefs have given you enough information so that
you know who is the primary broker to them (and probably most of the
restaurants in town), as well as being the one they rely on for the majority
of their produce items.
>can you give me any advice on
>establishing a relationship with them, including:
>
>- My first telephone calls have gone unanswered. My thought is to
>treat them like I do chefs and ask the receptionist if I could drop off
>a sample for them to look at.
If you have a good relationship with one of the chefs, and he/she in turn
has a good relationship with the broker - a personal referral is your
fastest way to get to see the broker. If during their next phone
conversation the chef were to mention you, your products, reliability,
quality or whatever, it's possible that the broker would respond with "Well,
send her in to see me.....whenever". Then when you call the broker's
office you can say, "Mr/Ms whoever asked me to call and sent an appointment
to see them" or "asked me to drop off some sample products" or......
"offered by buy my lunch" (Sorry, that'll never happen).
>
>- What is the best way to approach them and present them with my
>products - for example, I find that my chefs are very dissatisfied with
>the quality of the arugula that they get from the wholesalers. They are
>delighted to have excellent, clean, fresh unblemished arugula available
>and are happy to pay a premium for it. My theory is that the wholesaler
>should also be happy to substitute the inferior product that he is
>carrying if he can find a reliable source, correct?
Here's where it can get a little tricky -- if the broker starts buying your
arugula and stops buying from his other supplier, you know that the supplier
will feel that loss. It's possible that the supplier will say (to the
broker) - start buying the arugula again, or we won't sell you... (the other
products that they supply). Then the broker has to weigh how much hassle
he's willing to go through just to keep the chefs happy about arugula!!!
Sampling your products, getting in to see the broker, and asking lots of
questions should give you a face-to-face chance to evaluate the people, the
process, know the competition and become more closely acquainted with the
whole procedure. Then you'll have more first-hand information to base your
planning decisions on.
>
>-What can I expect in terms of price - I'm comfortable with what our
>market will bear at the end-user level. What is a typical or reasonable
>mark-up for wholesaling of specialty items?
If you check the USDA market reports, you'll get a good idea of the
wholesale prices. Then ask the broker what he's paying when you get in to
see him. I do know that basil was at one point wholesaling for $16.00/pound
to the restaurants, although the price the broker paid the grower was half
that or less. May have changed.
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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Subject: State Market Development Assistance, was Re: More thoughts on
wholesalers
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 20:43:21 -0600
At 01:48 PM 12/09/1999 -0500, Adriana wrote:
>Here are a couple of more thoughts on dealing with a prospective
>wholesaler.
>
>I have in mind an approach to help him or her penetrate the target
>market with my products. In the case of established products like
>arugula or tarragon, I suspect that simply providing them with samples
>which they can distribute to established customers should be sufficient.
>
>In the case of introduction of new products which are new to the area
>such as unusual oriental greens, what is the usual modus operandi of
>produce wholesalers:
>1. Samples plus product information
>2. Samples plus recipe suggestions
>3. Visits to prospective customers with the wholesaler's sales rep to
>introduce the product (and train the rep)
>4. Setting up a demonstration somewhere and inviting the local chefs
>5. Making contact with the local chef's organization
>6. All of the above
We have here in Missouri a group designated to help market Missouri ag
products (called appropriately AgriMissouri). They have market development
specialists that should be on top of the best ways to market and promote
particular products - Restaurant Conventions, or whatever. I know most
states have something similar and I've seen bits and pieces from Texas and
others - the theme is basically the same "Buy ______Products!" If you can
track down those folks in FL (probably through the state Ag Dept), they'll
cut out a lot of time and effort for you - after all, that's the job they're
supposed to be doing. And the contacts you need to make are much more
easily done by someone who deals with these people and their associations
all the time.
Paula
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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Subject: Aquaponics in Ontario
From: "Nilo Lancita"
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 22:50:15 -0500
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Hi to you all,
Anybody out there who could advise me on the feasibility of aquaponics =
or just a tilapia culture in Ontario.=20
regards,
acehi
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Hi to you all,
Anybody out there who could advise =
me on the=20
feasibility of aquaponics or just a tilapia culture in Ontario. =
regards,
acehi
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Subject: Aquasafra
From: "Jay Myers"
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 22:19:34 -0600
Has anyone purchased fingerling from Aquasafra in Bradenton, Fl ? Anything
good or not so good to say ???
Jay
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