Aquaponics Digest - Tue 12/21/99
Message 1: Re: Speraneo system
from "Robert Claytor"
Message 2: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1497
from Dave Miller
Message 3: Re: Speraneo system
from Borva
Message 4: Re: MFA Speadsheet Excel
from Shyloah
Message 5: Re: Speraneo system
from Shyloah
Message 6: Re: Monsanto "Genetic Engineering" may sell out?
from Jim Sealy Jr
Message 7: Industry Front Websites/JunkScience
from mmiller@pcsia.com
Message 8: Re: Monsanto "Genetic Engineering" may sell out?
from William Evans
Message 9: Re: Monsanto "Genetic Engineering" may sell out?
from mmiller@pcsia.com
Message 10: Re: Monsanto "Genetic Engineering" may sell out?
from Jim Sealy Jr
Message 11: Re: Monsanto "Genetic Engineering" may sell out?
from William Evans
Message 12: Re: Industry Front Websites/JunkScience
from "F. Marc de Piolenc"
Message 13: Re: Monsanto "Genetic Engineering" may sell out?
from Tom Alexander
Message 14: Re: Industry Front Websites/JunkScience
from Marc & Marcy
Message 15: we need "Genetic Engineering" to save the forests? that's lame
from William Evans
Message 16: OT..Re: Monsanto "Genetic Engineering" may sell out?
from William Evans
Message 17: Re: Monsanto "Genetic Engineering" may sell out?
from Vik Olliver
Message 18: Re: Speraneo system
from "Robert Claytor"
Message 19: Re: Monsanto "Genetic Engineering" may sell out?
from Shyloah
Message 20: Re: Industry Front Websites/JunkScience
from Mrki
Message 21: Speraneo system documentation
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 22: Re: Speraneo system
from Borva
Message 23: Re: about feeding catfish
from Bagelhole1
Message 24: Re: Speraneo system documentation
from Dave Miller
Message 25: My New Years Wishes-Without Genetic SCARES!
from Dave Miller
Message 26: Re: about feeding catfish
from MUDDTOO
Message 27: Lemna -" Duckwwed" as protein suppliment
from "KevinLReed"
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| Message 1 |
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Subject: Re: Speraneo system
From: "Robert Claytor"
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 03:47:03 PST
Would only like to say "amen" to Ralph, I have grown these plants and have
long seen their "E.P." ability. I just want more details.... I have grown
these plants as ornamentals for years. Would love to grow them as part of a
food production system.
Where (I'm stupid") is a better detailing of their design available? , if it
is? Obviously there is a very high interest.
Apparantly, the thing works. As an IT guy, my motto for years has been
"Whatever WORKS !"
bc
rclaytor@hotmail.com
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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| Message 2 |
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Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1497
From: Dave Miller
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 08:01:36 -0500
My wishes for the NEW YEAR:
Junk Science or Bunk?
http://www.junkscience.com/dec99/benjerr2.htm
http://www.junkscience.com/nov99/bjpress.htm
Junk Science is a website that I believe to be QUITE dangerous in
dissemination of reverse results, ie. they find the one study that
refutes and hype it. DDT is OK!
"Many children enjoy Ben & Jerry's ice cream," said Milloy,
"but by the
company's own standards, its ice cream is not safe. Are they
are choosing
corporate profits over children's health?" he asked.
Milloy appears here to be a stooge not questioning what other ice cream
companies are doing (or not doing). A quote by B&J over the "no safe"
level of dioxin is taken out of context. And within a breath or two:
The DDT debunk scares the pants off me:
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/991227/carson.htm debunks Carson
author of "Silent Spring" So now we are to believe that "all other
reasons" are for the thinning of the bald eagle shells.
While banned decades ago in industrialized countries, thousands of tons
of the deadly pesticide DDT are still produced each year, causing health
and environmental hazards in the U.S. and throughout the world because
of its long life and ability to travel great distances. It also converts
to DDE and other slightly less noxious forms. It has a half life of 8
years meaning it will take 16 years to dissipate if death does not
occur.
DDT the first of the chlorinated organic
insecticides, was originally prepared in 1873,
but it was not until 1939 that Paul Muller of
Geigy Pharmaceutical in Switzerland
discovered the effectiveness of DDT as an
insecticide he was awarded the Nobel Prize in
medicine and physiology in 1948 for this
discovery).
The use of DDT increased enormously on a
worldwide basis after World War II, primarily
because of its effectiveness against the
mosquito that spreads malaria and lice that
carry typhus. The World Health Organization
estimates that during the period of its use
approximately 25 million lives were saved.
DDT seemed to be the ideal insecticideit is
cheap and of relatively low toxicity to
mammals (oral LD50 is 300 to 500 mg/kg).
However, problems related to extensive use of
DDT began to appear in the late 1940s. Many
species of insects developed resistance to
DDT, and DDT was also discovered to have a
high toxicity toward fish.
Also from http://www.junkscience.com/ddtfaq.htm
But mosquitoes were killed which is a good thing or so we think.
And somewhere along the line, "ORGANIC FARMING" returned, revitalized!!!
--
Happy Solstice, Prosperous New Century!
_______________________________________
«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
Recycler Dave
A remodeler, drummer, farmer, soapmaker
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Subject: Re: Speraneo system
From: Borva
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 08:56:35 EST
I don't know what plants you are talking about (must have missed a post) and
I have no idea what an E.P. is (please forgive my ignorance). However, I did
pick up on the I. T. and the request for an information source. Go to
theVirginia Fish Farmers Association Web Page
http://www.vffa.ova.net/home.htm
You will find the S and S web page with a system description on our links
page.
Ed
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Subject: Re: MFA Speadsheet Excel
From: Shyloah
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 09:05:35 EST
In a message dated 12/20/99 11:37:43 PM Eastern Standard Time,
OOWON@netscape.net writes:
<< OOWON@netscape.net >>
Bill
The info from Jacky Foo at the IBS Internet Site referenced on this board is
what I know about and I find it very exciting. I think this is one of the
directions of the future in agriculture. (and I certainly prefer this to the
direction the Monsanto's would take us)
As you may have figured out I am doing something else for a living now and am
trying to learn about what systems in agriculture will be economically and
environmentally viable in the future.
I could probably figure out excell (or my children can) but I don't know what
figures to plug in or how to measure the nutrient contents to obtain these
figures. This is probably ordinary info to you.
Plan to visit an aquaponics site in Jan, I hope, which info on IBS nutrient
flows
Appreciate any info you post.
Thanks
Lee
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Subject: Re: Speraneo system
From: Shyloah
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 09:25:11 EST
Hi Ralph
Can see that you are ready for action.
The VFFA link you provided is a good source of info.
I need to understand some more details (number of fish to support how many
plants, essential nutrients for which plants)
It is great to have internet access to the info on systems that other
countries will share with us.
Please keep us up to date on the system you and your brother already have up
and running.
Hope for faster progress
Lee
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| Message 6 |
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Subject: Re: Monsanto "Genetic Engineering" may sell out?
From: Jim Sealy Jr
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 10:09:44 -0600
Then again if they were in bad financial shape, they might sell their
tech to whoever would pay for it and you'd see companies with _less_
controls in the GE biz. Not a pretty thought, even though I do support
(and grow) controlled GE crops. GE/high tech crops are not going to just
go away. There are too many potential benefits. The choice we have is
either grow genetically engineered pesticide free crops, or pour on the
chemicals. Either way we're planting soybeans and corn come spring
because people have to eat and it's simply not possible to fill the
volume needed with pure organic. We'd have to plow under the world.
Which prairies, and forests do you want cleared and planted if we give
up chemicals and GE?
Jim
A little grumpy due to a 3 broken tractors this weekend and a threatened
ice storm today.
Dave Miller wrote:
>
> As Monsanto announces a merger, what to do with their division
> responsible for genetic engineering of soy, corn, rape(canola) and other
> seeds is up for speculation. This upcoming year might be an opportune
> time to lay blow to a company weakened by public pressure and enormous
> debt on a division that is not making enough profit.
>
> Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 14:53:17 -0800
> From: Charles Benbrook
> Subject: Monsanto Merger
>
> I am sure everyone has heard the news that Monsanto and Pharmacia-Upjohn
> are going to merge. I have had several press calls re this already;
> people are wondering what this means for ag biotechnology and Monsanto's
> agchemical and seed division. A few observations --
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| Message 7 |
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Subject: Industry Front Websites/JunkScience
From: mmiller@pcsia.com
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 10:35:24 -0600
Dave, you found just another act of a play that is a few years old now and
has many manifestations. =20
Do you remember when congress did away with the Office of Technology when
those pesky do gooders kept telling the truth about various issues before
congress? The OTA is no more due to government funding cuts during The
Contract On America. See below. =20
The number of industry sponsored front groups, spewing New Age Victorian
claptrap, is growing expotentially and this is just another one of these. =
=20
The withdrawal of public funding from University research and the
replacement of adcademic research with industry-quality research.
Reference the CBS 60 Minutes last sunday. This has cast doubt on all
University research to such an extent many authors feel compelled to
include funding disclosures with their article. The lingering questions is
"Are they telling the truth or telling us what the secrecy contract
sponsors tell them they can tell us?" Would you by a used car (or your
child's healthcare) from this type of system???
I think when the history of our age is written, it will mention a
self-performed lobectomy of our knowledge base similar in scope to the
buring of the Library of Alexandria by the Christains in acient Egypt.
Mike Miller
The following is from http://www.wws.princeton.edu/~ota/ .
" The Congressional Office of Technology Assessment closed on September
29, 1995. During its 23-year history, OTA provided Congressional members
and committees with objective and authoritative analysis of the complex
scientific and technical issues of the late 20th century. It was a leader
in practicing and encouraging delivery of public services in innovative and
inexpensive ways, including distribution of government documents through
electronic publishing. This site honors that legacy by making available in
electronic form the complete collection of OTA publications along with
additional materials that illuminate the history and impact of the agency."
At 08:01 21-12-99 -0500, you wrote:
>My wishes for the NEW YEAR:
>
>Junk Science or Bunk?
>
>http://www.junkscience.com/dec99/benjerr2.htm
>http://www.junkscience.com/nov99/bjpress.htm
>
>
>Junk Science is a website that I believe to be QUITE dangerous in
>dissemination of reverse results, ie. they find the one study that
>refutes and hype it. DDT is OK!
>
> "Many children enjoy Ben & Jerry's ice cream," said Milloy,
>"but by the
> company's own standards, its ice cream is not safe. Are they
>are choosing
> corporate profits over children's health?" he asked.
>
>Milloy appears here to be a stooge not questioning what other ice cream
>companies are doing (or not doing). A quote by B&J over the "no safe"
>level of dioxin is taken out of context. And within a breath or two:
>
>The DDT debunk scares the pants off me:
>
>http://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/991227/carson.htm debunks Carson
>author of "Silent Spring" So now we are to believe that "all other
>reasons" are for the thinning of the bald eagle shells.
>
>While banned decades ago in industrialized countries, thousands of tons
>of the deadly pesticide DDT are still produced each year, causing health
>and environmental hazards in the U.S. and throughout the world because
>of its long life and ability to travel great distances. It also converts
>to DDE and other slightly less noxious forms. It has a half life of 8
>years meaning it will take 16 years to dissipate if death does not
>occur.
>
>
>DDT the first of the chlorinated organic
>insecticides, was originally prepared in 1873,
>but it was not until 1939 that Paul Muller of
>Geigy Pharmaceutical in Switzerland
>discovered the effectiveness of DDT as an
>insecticide he was awarded the Nobel Prize in
>medicine and physiology in 1948 for this
>discovery).
>
>The use of DDT increased enormously on a
>worldwide basis after World War II, primarily
>because of its effectiveness against the
>mosquito that spreads malaria and lice that
>carry typhus. The World Health Organization
>estimates that during the period of its use
>approximately 25 million lives were saved.
>DDT seemed to be the ideal insecticideit is
>cheap and of relatively low toxicity to
>mammals (oral LD50 is 300 to 500 mg/kg).
>However, problems related to extensive use of
>DDT began to appear in the late 1940s. Many
>species of insects developed resistance to
>DDT, and DDT was also discovered to have a
>high toxicity toward fish.
>
>Also from http://www.junkscience.com/ddtfaq.htm
>
>But mosquitoes were killed which is a good thing or so we think.
>
>And somewhere along the line, "ORGANIC FARMING" returned, revitalized!!!
>--=20
>Happy Solstice, Prosperous New Century!
>_______________________________________
>=AB=A4=BB=A5=AB=A4=BB=A7=AB=A4=BB=A5=AB=A4=BB=A7=AB=A4=BB=A5=AB=A4=BB=A7=AB=
=A4=BB=A7=AB=A4=BB=A5=AB=A4=BB=A7=AB=A4=BB
>=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=
=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF
>Recycler Dave
>
>A remodeler, drummer, farmer, soapmaker
>
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Subject: Re: Monsanto "Genetic Engineering" may sell out?
From: William Evans
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 09:09:51 -0800
Jim Sealy Jr wrote: The choice we have is
> either grow genetically engineered pesticide free crops, or pour on the
> chemicals. Either way we're planting soybeans and corn come spring
> because people have to eat and it's simply not possible to fill the
> volume needed with pure organic. We'd have to plow under the world.
> Which prairies, and forests do you want cleared and planted if we give
> up chemicals
Gee only two choices? , dont you think that's a little limited in
scope? Or , in your view, it's just not feasable to go organic, balance
the soil , and restore fertility, and meet demand?
I say it is, and is happening on farmland all across this country.
bill evans
who realizes there's more to organic ag than manure
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Subject: Re: Monsanto "Genetic Engineering" may sell out?
From: mmiller@pcsia.com
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 11:06:20 -0600
At 10:09 21-12-99 -0600, you wrote:
snip
GE/high tech crops are not going to just
>go away. There are too many potential benefits. The choice we have is
>either grow genetically engineered pesticide free crops, or pour on the
>chemicals. Either way we're planting soybeans and corn come spring
>because people have to eat and it's simply not possible to fill the
>volume needed with pure organic. We'd have to plow under the world.
>Which prairies, and forests do you want cleared and planted if we give
>up chemicals and GE?
These are straw man arguments from Dennis Avery of the Hudson Institute,
another one of those industry sponsored front groups.
A simple look at the price for corn and soybeans compared to the cost of
production with these new wundercrops and the level of hunger in the world
and you will see that hunger is not a function of the amount of arable land
but of the distribution of the wealth generated by the society.
Even now when using GE crops and pesticides and herbicides out the kazoo,
so that I cannot even drink the water from my well, farmers in the midwest
are still paying with income from their off farm jobs for the priviledge of
farming.
What farmers need now is not more production, but less production so crop
prices rise enough that can pay both the license fees and herbicide costs
for the new GE herbicide resistant crops and put food on the table for
their own families. Mike Miller
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Subject: Re: Monsanto "Genetic Engineering" may sell out?
From: Jim Sealy Jr
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 11:16:38 -0600
Yes, 2 commercially viable choices from a producer standpoint, rather
than spot efforts.
Jim
William Evans wrote:
>
>
> Gee only two choices? , dont you think that's a little limited in
> scope? Or , in your view, it's just not feasable to go organic, balance
> the soil , and restore fertility, and meet demand?
> I say it is, and is happening on farmland all across this country.
> bill evans
> who realizes there's more to organic ag than manure
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| Message 11 |
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Subject: Re: Monsanto "Genetic Engineering" may sell out?
From: William Evans
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 09:27:58 -0800
Jim Sealy Jr wrote:
>
> Yes, 2 commercially viable choices from a producer standpoint, rather
> than spot efforts.
> Jim
> Gee Jim, and I thought you wanted to learn.
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Subject: Re: Industry Front Websites/JunkScience
From: "F. Marc de Piolenc"
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 01:32:50 +0800
mmiller@pcsia.com wrote:
> I think when the history of our age is written, it will mention a
> self-performed lobectomy of our knowledge base similar in scope to the
> buring of the Library of Alexandria by the Christains in acient Egypt.
That would have been very tricky indeed. Christianity didn't exist yet
when that library was burned.
Marc de Piolenc
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Subject: Re: Monsanto "Genetic Engineering" may sell out?
From: Tom Alexander
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 09:32:24 -0800 (PST)
The response below sounds more like something a grower would have said
twenty years ago. The microbilogical, enzyme and other research done by
Dr. Elaine Ingham at Oregon STate University and her Soil FoodWeb Inc.
show otherwise. Now that organic food demand is growing close to triple
digits per year, there is money in it. So the land grant colleges have
some money to do research and show proof that not only yields can be
highly profitable but disease and pest resistance can be had with organic
methods. Organics has come a long way from hauling manure and compost onto
the field. There are much more modern ways to deliver the sustainable
nutrients and microbes to the soil. Open minded growers are
checking out the latest college research and at least considering it.
Growers who are beholden to Monsanto and the rest will tow their
age old corporate line and continue to add to their billions in sales.
What is really ironic is farmers grow enough food now for the world. Huge
quantities go to waste in landfills. It is delivery systems and cultural
class systems that make people go hungry. For decades Monsanto and the
rest have put out the propaganda that if we just grow more, starvation
would go away; meanwhile their profits go through the roof. Well we are
growing more than ever and more people are starving than ever.
In that vein, check out the Garden Writer Association of America's Plant a
Row for the Hungry program. Contact Jacqui Heriteau, phone (860.824.1018)
or email jacquiheriteau@MNS.com or visit the web site:
http://www.gwaa.org/services/par/par.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Alexander, Publisher PO Box 1027
Growing EDGE magazine Corvallis, OR 97339
talexan@peak.org 541.757.8477
================= http://www.growingedge.com =================
On Tue, 21 Dec 1999, William Evans wrote:
> Jim Sealy Jr wrote: The choice we have is
> > either grow genetically engineered pesticide free crops, or pour on the
> > chemicals. Either way we're planting soybeans and corn come spring
> > because people have to eat and it's simply not possible to fill the
> > volume needed with pure organic. We'd have to plow under the world.
> > Which prairies, and forests do you want cleared and planted if we give
> > up chemicals
> Gee only two choices? , dont you think that's a little limited in
> scope? Or , in your view, it's just not feasable to go organic, balance
> the soil , and restore fertility, and meet demand?
> I say it is, and is happening on farmland all across this country.
> bill evans
> who realizes there's more to organic ag than manure
>
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| Message 14 |
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Subject: Re: Industry Front Websites/JunkScience
From: Marc & Marcy
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 10:37:40 -0700
..snip..
> The withdrawal of public funding from University research and the
> replacement of adcademic research with industry-quality research.
..snip..
I suspect that the academic community cut it's throat when
they decided they should be societal leaders rather than
societal members. I have voted against tax increases and
have urged the reduction of current programs for that reason
alone.
I am obviously not alone.
Marc
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| Message 15 |
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Subject: we need "Genetic Engineering" to save the forests? that's lame
From: William Evans
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 09:52:37 -0800
it's simply not possible to fill the
> volume needed with pure organic. We'd have to plow under the world.
> Which prairies, and forests do you want cleared and planted if we give
> up chemicals and GE?
>
> pulled this off the web, odesnt appear this guy needs chemicals...
hmmm...
"ORGANIC SOYBEANS FOR SALE, no man made chemicals used on our farm
since 1989, no tillage or cultivation since 1995. We now have NO soil
erosion.
We grow our beans in a polyculture of grasses & clovers. We have NO
foxtail, or jimson weed. Our fields ALWAYS are covered with a carpet of
green
Our production methods are a high technology version of "The One Straw
Revolution". High tech meets organic farming!
Our 1997 crop should yield about 30 bu./acre. or 2500 bu. The beans have
a dark hilum. Call for a sample. "
hows that yield, low? high? for yellow springs ,ohio in 1997?
even w/ all the chemicals applied today, there is still the same amount
( if not more) of impact by insects
upon our crops, , as when we first started applying pesticides decades
ago.
AS far as yields, chem ag has certainly enabled (for a time) the farmer
to boost production. But the soil eventually rebels/ fails.Collapse due
to no more OM. At that point the soils only function is a matrix to
hold the roots so the fertilizer can feed the plant...
in this context "Chemical ag" feeds the plant, not the soil, hwich is
it's downfalll.
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| Message 16 |
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Subject: OT..Re: Monsanto "Genetic Engineering" may sell out?
From: William Evans
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 09:58:51 -0800
http://www.ifbf.org/
Organic soybeans post-CRP option May 11,
1997
Iowa farmers with land coming out of the 10-year conservation reserve
program and farmers with winterkill in alfalfa are looking at production
options on the land.
Organic production of food grade soybeans is one option, says Gary
Bogenrief, general manager of ProfiSeed International in Hampton.
Bogenrief has been involved for four years in exporting whole
organically-grown soybeans to Japan. And he says the market is not being
met with existing production.
"I can't get enough beans," he says. Frequently, he has to arrange to
purchase organically-grown soybeans out of South Dakota and Minnesota
rather than from Iowa.
"With land coming out of the CRP and winterkill in alfalfa, this may be
an
opportune time for farmers to look at producing organically-grown
soybeans," he says.
Organically-grown soybeans must be produced without the use of farm
chemicals. Fields on which the beans are grown must not have had any
chemical applied for the three previous years.
Bogenrief says yields of food-grade soybeans average 35-40 bushels per
acre and farmers are paid between $17 per bushel for unclean beans to
$20 per bushel for clean beans.
Farmers raising the beans have to be certified by either the Organic
Crop
Improvement Association in Lincoln, Neb. (402-477-2323) or the Organic
Growers and Buyers Association headquartered in Fridley, Mn.
(612-572-1967). Both groups, as well as Bogenrief, aid in marketing the
crop.
Bogenrief says he welcomes inquiries on organic soybean production and
can be reached at 515-456-5955.
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| Message 17 |
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Subject: Re: Monsanto "Genetic Engineering" may sell out?
From: Vik Olliver
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 07:51:46 +1200
Jim Sealy Jr wrote:
>
> Then again if they were in bad financial shape, they might sell their
> tech to whoever would pay for it and you'd see companies with _less_
> controls in the GE biz. Not a pretty thought, even though I do support
> (and grow) controlled GE crops. GE/high tech crops are not going to just
> go away. There are too many potential benefits. The choice we have is
> either grow genetically engineered pesticide free crops, or pour on the
> chemicals.
Actually, GE crops use 20% more agrochemicals than conventional crops.
> Either way we're planting soybeans and corn come spring
> because people have to eat and it's simply not possible to fill the
> volume needed with pure organic.
Again, a misconception of GE crops. Typical yeilds are 5% lower than
conventional crops.
Why would people grow GE crops if they use more agrochemicals and give a
lower yeild? Because they were sold a line by the supplier; watch
Monsanto merge with Pharmacia & Upjohn now that farmers have noticed the
discrepancy and avoid Monsanto's products. Monsanto is no longer capable
of running as a business.
> We'd have to plow under the world.
I believe we currently grow more food than we need anyway, we just don't
have the transportation systems. We'd need to employ more labourers to
manage crops if we turned away from the standard monocultures, but we've
got rampant unemployment too. Other techniques such as good old crop
rotation and greenhouses increase yeild.
> Which prairies, and forests do you want cleared and planted if we give
> up chemicals and GE?
These are being cleared out of greed and ignorance, not need.
Vik :v)
--
A member of The Olliver Family http://olliver.penguinpowered.com
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| Message 18 |
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Subject: Re: Speraneo system
From: "Robert Claytor"
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 11:38:13 PST
Hello!
The plants are good old water hyacinth.... the roots hang deep into the
water and have an Electrostatic Precipitator ability (sorry bout that, the
term is used in furnace filters, anything to purify air (or , in this
case, water)) by using an electrostatic charge to atttract solids. Water
hyacinth attract solids in the water (such as fish waste) and , basically
eat them. Baby fish hide amongst the roots. They are amazingly fast to
grow and.. well, they are just amazing plants. I really want to know more
about the Speraeo system....
bc
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| Message 19 |
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Subject: Re: Monsanto "Genetic Engineering" may sell out?
From: Shyloah
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 15:07:54 EST
In a message dated 12/21/99 11:09:59 AM Eastern Standard Time,
jimsealyjr@who.net writes:
<< jimsealyjr@who.net >>
would like to share a favorite resouce
Acres USA 1 800 355 5313
When chem ag took over post war to keep the chem co s going -
this very undept thinking group has educated in biological ag
will send you a free issue
I am reading the Non-Toxic Farming Handbook now Its excellent Wheeler and
Ward
Arden Anderson Niel Kinsey are also two people who understand the
conversion back to biological farming
bio farmers are making money and good food
Lee
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| Message 20 |
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Subject: Re: Industry Front Websites/JunkScience
From: Mrki
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 22:34:41 +0100
F. Marc de Piolenc wrote:
> mmiller@pcsia.com wrote:
>
> > I think when the history of our age is written, it will mention a
> > self-performed lobectomy of our knowledge base similar in scope to the
> > buring of the Library of Alexandria by the Christains in acient Egypt.
>
> That would have been very tricky indeed. Christianity didn't exist yet
> when that library was burned.
>
> Marc de Piolenc
I think it was the moslem's achiewment...
Sascha Mrkailo
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| Message 21 |
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Subject: Speraneo system documentation
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 18:48:13 -0500
Several recent posts make me think that some newcomers to the list might
not know that they can obtain a package of detailed system installation
and operating instructions from Paula and Tom for a very reasonable
cost. Go to http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/ for more information.
Random question: Is anybody familiar with Aztec Red Spinach,a North
American native plant, a red-leafed relative of quinoa. I came upon a
stack of back issues of Organic Gardening at a yard sale (yes, we have
those in December in Florida :>)) which mentioned it. There are some
other interesting things I've come across, such as 26 alternatives to
beer for comabatting slugs and snails.
Adriana
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| Message 22 |
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Subject: Re: Speraneo system
From: Borva
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 18:46:39 EST
Yep Robert,
The water hyacinth is amazing for sure. FYI
You can find out everything you need to know about Tom and Paula Speraneo's
(sustainable, environmentally freindly, non-Monsanto connected) bioponics
system on their web site:
S & S Aqua Farm Bioponics
System
They even have a simple mechanical drawing, in addition to more than enough
information to give a clear idea of its operation. In addition, I understand
they will send you a detailed manual and a video of the operation at their
farm for far less than I spent on I T books this week. The quality of the
video isn't all that great but it will very definitely leave a deep
impression on you. By the way, you can see some photograghs of a water
hyacinth filtering system as it is used in a large commercial(200,000Lbs of
fish/year) operation, on the Virginia Fish Farmers Association web page. Just
click on the trip photos button on the events page VFFA WEB
Ed
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| Message 23 |
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Subject: Re: about feeding catfish
From: Bagelhole1
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 21:51:17 EST
Thanks Jim and Brian for your kind suggestions. Now it is Dec. 21, the
catfish are alive and well, subsisting on what they find in the raceway so
far. It is a mystery to me what they are eating, but I have not been feeding
them. Slowly, I will add more.
Best Fishes,
Tom O
http://bagelhole.org
In a message dated 11/28/99 2:48:36 AM, bgracia@rtripp.com writes:
<Question: I have added 7 - 2 lb catfish to my raceway, along with water
>hyacinth, watercress, and a few other plants, a long roll of hay in mesh,
>some clams and clamshells. Do I need to feed them something or will they
find
>enough in the raceway? So far they have existed about a week with no
feeding.
>They hide under the roll of hay. Any ideas?
> Thanks,
>Tom O
>http://bagelhole.org
>
Tom,
You will need to feed them. Unless your raceway sports insects, tadpols
and other small fish/animals, the catfish will starve. I have seen catfish
eat algea, but I doubt that your raceway is loaded with the stuff.
Just want to acknowledge you efforts in making the world a better place!
Brian Gracia
__________
Tom,
Where did you get the catfish? Were they farm raised or wild? How large
is your raceway? How much hay did you add? Are there any clams left or
have the catfish eaten them already? what sort of substrate is there
in your raceway? What sort of filter do you have now? Are these meant
for pets or table fare?
Off the cuff, if they're farm raised channel cats, I'd say feed the fish
a good handful (~3/4 cup) of floating 30% protein catfish feed, a little
at a time, morning and night and then increase the ration until there's
some left after 15 minutes.
If they're wild caught, try to get them to eat some liver and a little
processed feed until they're used to the pellets alone.
Jim Sealy
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| Message 24 |
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Subject: Re: Speraneo system documentation
From: Dave Miller
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 23:24:39 -0500
Adriana,
Do tell us about the 26 slug/snail alternatives (short of breading and
frying).
As to yard sales, you will never have a basement sale nor a tag sale.
The Aztec Red Spinach sounds interesting. Assuming that you find it, is
this for your salad mix? Perhaps this is now an heirloom crop. Try
"Seeds For Change" or other seed banks. Let us know if you can locate a
source. I would love to grow some for the year 2000!!!
BTW, Happy whatever to all on this list. You are my adopted family. Not
to sound fishy, (ouch) but I feel like I know your smiles and garden
secrets. I hope that Tedzo is okay with his move....
--
Happy Solstice, Prosperous Whatever!
_______________________________________
«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
Recycler Dave
A remodeler, drummer, farmer, soapmaker
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| Message 25 |
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Subject: My New Years Wishes-Without Genetic SCARES!
From: Dave Miller
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 05:47:51 -0500
I chose not to cut and paste what I chose... when I REREAD this site I
realized how poorly we are in our trying to foment change. If I saw that
ALL farmers met these standards I would feel better about the
animals....
http://www.demeter-usa.org/TOUSDA.HTM
Your Comments (After Reading)?! PLEASE?
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| Message 26 |
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Subject: Re: about feeding catfish
From: MUDDTOO
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 23:50:34 EST
It won't be a mystery to us when they start to float. Then you'll have
plenty more room for more :-)
Joel
In a message dated 12/21/99 6:51:49 PM Pacific Standard Time,
Bagelhole1 writes:
> Thanks Jim and Brian for your kind suggestions. Now it is Dec. 21, the
> catfish are alive and well, subsisting on what they find in the raceway so
> far. It is a mystery to me what they are eating, but I have not been
feeding
>
> them. Slowly, I will add more.
> Best Fishes,
> Tom O
> http://bagelhole.org
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| Message 27 |
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Subject: Lemna -" Duckwwed" as protein suppliment
From: "KevinLReed"
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 18:42:57 -1000
Aloha ( God I love writing that!),
I see the GE controversy rages on ........
In the mean time ...
I found some data about protein content and quality for duckweed.
It seems except for the fact that duckweed has higher fiber content than =
soy beans
( and therefore some negligible reduced ability to be digested ) that =
duckweed is equal to
soy as far as protein content. =20
If you have available sources of sugars and lipids in your respective =
areas of the world, it may be that working duckwed into the fish diet =
might be beneficial to the bottom line. Can anyone say free fishfood? I =
will be trying to find the complementary sources to round out Lemna as a =
protein suppliment with what is locally avaiable but I think a protein =
source as good as soy is a very good start.=20
GOOD ONE BERT!!!!
Below is URL for a duckweed protein quality study
http://www.fao.org/ag/aga/agap/frg/LRRD/LRRD9/2/ANH92.HTM
Kevin
Anahola, Kauai, HI
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