Aquaponics Digest - Fri 07/20/01
Message 1: unsubscribe
from "Nick Kemp"
Message 2: Re: Outside Aquaponics
from "gutierrez-lagatta"
Message 3: Re: Watercress postharvest handling
from "gutierrez-lagatta"
Message 4: zebra update
from "Mark Allen Wells"
Message 5: Re: zebra update
from "Arlos"
Message 6: Re: constructive criticism or meltdown
from dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.com
Message 7: Re: New to the list
from "Steven Medlock"
Message 8: Does anyone do this:
from Andrei.Calciu 'at' hn.va.nec.com
Message 9: RE: Does anyone do this:
from "Carlos R. Arano"
Message 10: Re: zebra update
from "gutierrez-lagatta"
Message 11: Re: Does anyone do this:
from fishmanbruce 'at' webtv.net (Bruce
Schreiber)
Message 12: Re: Nutria
from fishmanbruce 'at' webtv.net (Bruce
Schreiber)
Message 13: Re: Does anyone do this:
from Raul Vergueiro Martins
Message 14: Re: geo-hydroponics
from kris book
| Message 1
Subject: unsubscribe
From: "Nick Kemp"
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 23:35:13 -0500
Unsubscribe
. for now .
| Message 2
Subject: Re: Outside Aquaponics
From: "gutierrez-lagatta"
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 03:23:22 -0500
Richard,
It sounds like a good start. Get your timer at Home
Depot - look for
the Intermatic model that allows you to control things
down to the
minute. It costs less than $15.00.
> I can also put a tarp over that during heavy rains.
I bought a
pump for the
> hydroponics on the Web last night, and I think I can
get a suitable
timer at
> Wal-Mart.
Adriana
| Message 3
Subject: Re: Watercress postharvest handling
From: "gutierrez-lagatta"
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 03:33:32 -0500
Thanks Paula - This week I saw wholesale watercress
sold bunched on
beds of ice in wax cartons. I specifically wonder if
such an extreme
degree of cooling and humidity are essential or
whether treating it
just like you would salad greens is adequate for local
same-day
deliveries directly to the end-user.
I'm so sorry to hear about your mother.
Adriana
> Adriana - what specifically do you need to know?
Most of our
watercress was
> incorporated into our salad mix. The rest was sold
in gallon bags,
1# per
> package. Some residual water in the (heat sealed)
bag will help
maintain
> freshness -- too much will cause some "mushiness".
Refrigerate as
lettuces
> and other greens. Does that help?
| Message 4
Subject: zebra update
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 12:07:02 -0500
Hey Arlos,
I just got a call from a nice lady biologist
at the
DNR. We had missed each other's calls a couple of
times
and I left word that I wanted to speak to her before
submitting a proposal. She finally called back and
was
very pleasant. She understood my interest after we
talked.
I told her I would submit the proposal if it was
possible
but not if I was just wasting our time and energy.
She told me
it was possible
.normally exotic species permits
have
only been issued to universities for study, they are
aware
of their potential in this area but no one is doing
it
.yet:)
Anyway, I may have a couple of questions when I draft
it.
Will you review it for me? I'd appreciate it. I'm
also
calling a buddy of mine I grew up with. He was a
biology
major at Ohio Sate (PhD now) when he worked for the
fish and
game service. He did lot of studies on things like
agricultural
effects on lakes/rivers, fish populations, monitored
native and
exotic species
.all of it. He is managing the nature
preserve
that used to be the Jefferson proving grounds where
the military
did a lot of ordinance testing. The military couldn't
sell
it for development
.too much potential liability.
Now
it's a nature preserve. He has excellent credentials
and may
be a lot of help here too. A reference from him sure
wouldn't
hurt. First hoop jumped through
.cultivate a
positive relationship
with your contact person.
You were right in advising Lynn (I think) to
work
within the system. It would be easy to just harvest
the
mussels and keep my mouth shut
but it would also be
stupid. I want to document everything, as you said
"promote this technology
.". There is enormous
potential
here. Replacing mechanical filtration with living
filtration is a net energy gain. Producing protein
from
waste with maggots and redworms is a net energy gain.
Most
hear maggots and it all stops there with that mental
image.
I see a food that my fish love that is costing me
nothing, and
a misunderstand waste processor that saved many lives
in
Viet Nam by consuming diseased flesh. It's an amazing
world.
peace,
Mark
| Message 5
Subject: Re: zebra update
From: "Arlos"
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 10:38:44 -0700
Mark,
Sometimes a backdoor entry via a states Sea Grant
Program and finding a
joint venture through a University program can do
wonders in obtaining a
permit. Submission protocol can drive you nuts in
obtaining permits. Here in
California, the cost of generating an environmental
impact report can kill
off the best of intended projects. I'd be more than
happy to review a
proposal for you. When you're ready, email it off
group and we can stream
line it. I'll take it down to the Monterey bay
Aquarium and peer review it
with a group that has a great deal of experience and
can give you enormous
support for this. a paper trail is important as you
may be setting a
milestone with this project.
I'll be out of the office for 3 weeks in August and
the first week in Sept
then off to Bangladesh to work on a project proposal
for the Grameen Bank.
I'm still planning to attend the short course in NC in
November. I hope you
can get your proposal completed and fast tracked
before winter starts back
there or as the saying goes, "You'll have to put the
whole thing on ice
untill spring".
Best Regards,
Arlos
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Allen Wells
To: Aquaponics
Date: Friday, July 20, 2001 10:07 AM
Subject: zebra update
>Hey Arlos,
>
> I just got a call from a nice lady biologist at the
>DNR. We had missed each other's calls a couple of
times
>and I left word that I wanted to speak to her before
>submitting a proposal. She finally called back and
was
>very pleasant. She understood my interest after we
talked.
>I told her I would submit the proposal if it was
possible
>but not if I was just wasting our time and energy.
She told me
>it was possible
.normally exotic species permits
have
>only been issued to universities for study, they are
aware
>of their potential in this area but no one is doing
it
.yet:)
>Anyway, I may have a couple of questions when I draft
it.
>Will you review it for me? I'd appreciate it. I'm
also
>calling a buddy of mine I grew up with. He was a
biology
>major at Ohio Sate (PhD now) when he worked for the
fish and
>game service. He did lot of studies on things like
agricultural
>effects on lakes/rivers, fish populations, monitored
native and
>exotic species
.all of it. He is managing the nature
preserve
>that used to be the Jefferson proving grounds where
the military
>did a lot of ordinance testing. The military
couldn't sell
>it for development
.too much potential liability.
Now
>it's a nature preserve. He has excellent credentials
and may
>be a lot of help here too. A reference from him sure
wouldn't
>hurt. First hoop jumped through
.cultivate a
positive relationship
>with your contact person.
>
> You were right in advising Lynn (I think) to work
>within the system. It would be easy to just harvest
the
>mussels and keep my mouth shut
but it would also
be
>stupid. I want to document everything, as you said
>"promote this technology
.". There is enormous
potential
>here. Replacing mechanical filtration with living
>filtration is a net energy gain. Producing protein
from
>waste with maggots and redworms is a net energy gain.
Most
>hear maggots and it all stops there with that mental
image.
>I see a food that my fish love that is costing me
nothing, and
>a misunderstand waste processor that saved many lives
in
>Viet Nam by consuming diseased flesh. It's an
amazing world.
>
>peace,
>Mark
>
| Message 6
Subject: Re: constructive criticism or meltdown
From: dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.com
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 15:50:45 -0700
Good point Kris!
For the newbies looking for some "food" take a look at
http://aquanic.org/publicat/state/il-in/ces/ces-240.htm
There are a lot of good topics here, for your perusal
and further
reading.
Mike,
Jamaica.
kris book wrote:
>
Second, how about putting
> our questions into a search engine first, then we
can all ask better
> questions, if it is still necessary after the
search. There are some
> fantastic search engines available today.
I just love that Control, Shift, End and then Delete
short
> cut for removing all text below the cursor.
| Message 7
Subject: Re: New to the list
From: "Steven Medlock"
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 16:25:49 -0500
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
=_NextPart_000_0011_01C11138.A333B440
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Marcia,
Thats great I am just a little ways from you I am
outside of Sullivan, =
North. I was just up your way with my boat. (broken)
Just let me know =
if you want to come see the house.
(red)
Steve
gunner 'at' fidnet.com
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Marcia Wilson=20
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com=20
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 9:12 PM
Subject: Re: New to the list
Hey I am west of St. Louis too, in ST. James, Mo.
where are you at? =
I currently grow about 500 tomato plants
hydroponically in a =
gravel/perlite/sand mix in my new greenhouse but want
to learn =
aquaponics too.
Thanks for responding,
marcia
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Steven Medlock=20
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com=20
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 3:37 PM
Subject: Re: New to the list
Marcia,
I am not a pro, but I do have a system and am
trying to raise =
tomatoes doing fair, where are you located? I too
am in missouri =
west of St .Louis. The people on this list are great
just ask away.
Red
Steve
=_NextPart_000_0011_01C11138.A333B440
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Marcia,
Thats great I am just
a little ways =
from you I am=20
outside of Sullivan, North. I was just up
your way with my =
boat.=20
(broken) Just let me know if you want to come
see the =
house.
(red)
Steve
gunner 'at' fidnet.com
----- Original
Message -----
From:=20
Marcia=20
Wilson
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Sent:
Thursday, July 19, 2001 =
9:12=20
PM
Subject: Re:
New to the =
list
Hey I am west of St. Louis too,
in ST. James, =
Mo. =20
where are you at? I currently grow about
500 tomato plants =
hydroponically in a gravel/perlite/sand mix in my
new greenhouse but =
want to=20
learn aquaponics too.
Thanks for
responding,
marcia
----- Original
Message -----
From:=20
Steven=20
Medlock
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Sent:
Thursday, July 19, 2001 =
3:37=20
PM
Subject:
Re: New to the =
list
Marcia,
I am not a
pro, but I do have =
a system=20
and am trying to raise tomatoes doing fair,
where are you=20
located? I too am in missouri
west of St=20
.Louis. The people on this list are
great just ask=20
away.
Red
Steve
=_NextPart_000_0011_01C11138.A333B440--
| Message 8
Subject: Does anyone do this:
From: Andrei.Calciu 'at' hn.va.nec.com
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 17:30:34 -0400
Does anyone on the list grow mushrooms? If yes, can it
be done
hydro/aquaponically? I would be interested in finding
out about the
necessary setup. I am still interested in learning
even if water cannot be
involved because recently I bought one of those
kitchen mushroom kits and I
got the best tasting mushrooms in my life. No
comparison with the store
bought stuff.
Is there any special consideration when growing
mushrooms? I remember
reading that you have to do it in the dark. This means
that a greenhouse is
not necessary, what about temperatures, equipment,
etc. Any help greatly
appreciated.
-_______________
Andrei D. Calciu (VA-4270)
NEC America, Inc.
14040 Park Center Dr.
Herndon, VA 20171-3227
Voice: 703-834-4273
Fax: 703-787-6613
This message and any attachment are confidential. If
you are not the
intended recipient, please telephone or email the
sender and delete the
message and any attachment from your system. If you
are not the intended
recipient you must not copy this message or attachment
or disclose the
contents to any other person.
| Message 9
Subject: RE: Does anyone do this:
From: "Carlos R. Arano"
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 20:23:22 -0300
Dear Andrei:
You cannot grow mushrooms using neither hydroponics
nor aquaponics.
Mushrooms need special compost to grow.
Some mushrooms does not require light. Other needs
some lighting.
What variety are you thinking about ? Agaricus,
pleurotus, shi i take,
boletus, morells,
3000 varieties?
This is not the proper list to consult. The subject is
out of the interest
of most the list members.
If you want more information I can give to you at your
own mail.
Also, there are many people can help you in USA. Check
Penn State University
Mushroom Lab or the American Mushroom Asociation at
Kennet Square, Penna.I
think they will help you, even much better that
myself.
Regards,
Carlos
PS: If you do not like headaches, mushrooms aren't for
you. I know by 15
years experience.
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 6:30 PM
Subject: Does anyone do this:
>
> Does anyone on the list grow mushrooms? If yes, can
it be done
> hydro/aquaponically? I would be interested in
finding out about the
> necessary setup. I am still interested in learning
even if water cannot be
> involved because recently I bought one of those
kitchen mushroom kits and
I
> got the best tasting mushrooms in my life. No
comparison with the store
> bought stuff.
>
> Is there any special consideration when growing
mushrooms? I remember
> reading that you have to do it in the dark. This
means that a greenhouse
is
> not necessary, what about temperatures, equipment,
etc. Any help greatly
> appreciated.
>
> -_______________
> Andrei D. Calciu (VA-4270)
> NEC America, Inc.
> 14040 Park Center Dr.
> Herndon, VA 20171-3227
>
> Voice: 703-834-4273
> Fax: 703-787-6613
>
> This message and any attachment are confidential.
If you are not the
> intended recipient, please telephone or email the
sender and delete the
> message and any attachment from your system. If you
are not the intended
> recipient you must not copy this message or
attachment or disclose the
> contents to any other person.
>
| Message 10
Subject: Re: zebra update
From: "gutierrez-lagatta"
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 19:31:31 -0500
Don't use him as a "reference": put him on your org
chart as your
"technical advisor". Then you're speaking their
language.
> it's a nature preserve. He has excellent
credentials and may
> be a lot of help here too. A reference from him
sure wouldn't
> hurt.
Is there a difference between a maggot and a larvae?
Larvae is more
socially palatable.> waste with maggots and redworms is a net energy
gain. Most
> hear maggots and it all stops there with that mental
image.
Adriana
| Message 11
Subject: Re: Does anyone do this:
From: fishmanbruce 'at' webtv.net (Bruce Schreiber)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 19:51:28 -0500 (CDT)
Andrei except for the mushrooms that you have already
grown I belive the
rest of the cultivated ones can be grown out side on
stumps or in
plastic tubes hung up on racks full of the necessary
sawdust for that
specie each kind growing on a different type of tree
or its sawdust
currently about 12 kinds are available
Bruce
| Message 12
Subject: Re: Nutria
From: fishmanbruce 'at' webtv.net (Bruce Schreiber)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 20:42:57 -0500 (CDT)
Arlos no Nutria huggers and no Nutria either but you
can sure find a few
tree and bunny huggers. They fail to realize that no
mater what we do we
cant bring back our environment exactly as it was .Its
like going back
into the past on a time machine and as you get off and
step on a bug or
you change some other thing or ad something to the mix
and upon
returning every thing is changed .They wiped out most
of the usable fish
species in the great lakes due to over
harvest,pollution and habitat
loss so they stocked yellow perch,smelt ,rainbow and
brown trout and all
of the Pacific salmon to insure the wipe out and than
along comes the
Zebra Mussel to clean up the mess that was made and
its called an exotic
.Oh and the other fish that they planted were not.Yah
wright I DON'T
THINK SO.
Bruce
| Message 13
Subject: Re: Does anyone do this:
From: Raul Vergueiro Martins
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 00:07:06 +0100
Dear Carlos:
I can assure that you can grow mushrooms using
hydroponics, aquaponics and the best way,
using geo-hydroponics.
Excuse me Paula, because the message will be too long
I have never told to nobody about my experiments on
this subject, but as I have seen
during these last two yeras so many questions about
this, with negative answers from every
place, I think that it is time to change this
position.
I tell you this by my own experiments, and these begun
35 years ago.
By that time I wanted to produce mushrooms, and it was
by that time too that I had the
first contact with hydroponics.
The first book I read about hydroponics, was
HIDROPONIA - CULTIVO DE PLANTAS SIN TIERRA,
written by G. O. Huterwal - Editorial Hobby, Com. e
Ind. - Buenos Aires - Argentina.
By that time NFT had not been developed by Dr. Cooper.
In that book, the author has a small chapter about
hydroponic mushrooms, and he gives the
formulas of the solution he used.
As I had studied mushroom production in the
traditional ways, the idea came imediately,
after reading that book: - Why not produce them
hydroponically?
I tried it, but with no success. Even so, the author
of that book made it. So, there
was some secret involved.
By that time, we begun building biodigesters for
methane production, and I left aside the
idea of the mushrooms, and begun making experiments
with organic Hydroponics, using the
biofertilizer as the basis for the preparation of the
nutrient solution.
Around 1985, I got a xerox copy of an italian book
about hydroponics.
I have not the name of the book, nor the name of the
author (it is a copy), but the
preface is signed by a certain Carlo Fossati.
The one who gave me that copy was a mexican sir that
looked for me in Brazil, indicated
by the ISOSC.
He told me the author of the book is Dr. Franco
Massantini, but I have my doubts about
that.
I spoke with him about the dream of hydroponic
mushrooms, and he told me that it was
possible, and that in Tucson, there was an instalation
producing them in sand trays. He
told me too that it was a secret closed under seven
keys, but he had visited it.
In that book, there is a small chapter about
hydroponic mushroom, with a nutrient solution
formula too.
And that formula opened my mind to something that had
been allways in front of me, and I
never saw.
One of the components of the formula was sugar, as the
carbon source for the mushrooms.
I tryied it, and it worked.
>From there to the use geo-hydroponics it was a small
jump.
The secret? Bio decomposed organic matter.
What you need in a traditional system, is a well
prepared compost.
I had all the components of the compost, in a liquid
form, the biofertilizer.
I begun experimenting, with great success. Agaricus
with about 1" diameter.
But I had to stop my experiments, because of problems
in my industry.
I only continued the work with geo-hydroponics for
greens and other plants.
What I can say to you all, in the moment, is that all
the principles involved in the
traditional system must be observed in detail, as
temperature, carbonic gas concentration
in the ambient, relative humidity, ventilation,
absence of light, and others.
Everything, except the growing media. Just sand
trays, irrigated with an organic
nutrient solution
A lot of research must still be done, and at the
moment I have no more my laboratory for
that.
One thing I can tell you. It is possible, with a
high production level, better than the
traditional system.
The nutrient solution must be organic or
organic-inorganic (a different concept from
inorganic-organic solution).
In Aquaponics we have an organic solution, and it can
do the job. May be you must make
some changes, as to filter the fish feces, biodigest
it, and then join the final
biofertilizer to the water. But I'm sure it works.
If you have an inorganic-organic nutrient solution,
the system will not work, as the added
organic part will not be sufficient to feed the
mushrooms with the "organic carbon" they
need.
As you say, Carlos, people can expect a lot of
headaches. But you have a lot of years of
experience with these delicious white balls. Why
don't you try again.
I would never reccomend this culture to a beginner.
It is full of tricks and one needs a
lot of knowledges that are inherent to it. But you
know all this, Carlos. Why don't
you try again?
It will be a revolution in the production of
mushrooms.
And may be this list, in small time will be an
information reference for the production of
mushrooms.
Aquaponics is not an Organic Hydroponic System?
BTW, why don't you try geo-hydroponics in your fodder
production system? It is great.
Raul Vergueiro Martins
rvm 'at' sti.com.br
"Carlos R. Arano" wrote:
> Dear Andrei:
> You cannot grow mushrooms using neither hydroponics
nor aquaponics.
> Mushrooms need special compost to grow.
> Some mushrooms does not require light. Other needs
some lighting.
> What variety are you thinking about ? Agaricus,
pleurotus, shi i take,
> boletus, morells,
3000 varieties?
>
> This is not the proper list to consult. The subject
is out of the interest
> of most the list members.
> If you want more information I can give to you at
your own mail.
> Also, there are many people can help you in USA.
Check Penn State University
> Mushroom Lab or the American Mushroom Asociation at
Kennet Square, Penna.I
> think they will help you, even much better that
myself.
> Regards,
> Carlos
>
> PS: If you do not like headaches, mushrooms aren't
for you. I know by 15
> years experience.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> To:
> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 6:30 PM
> Subject: Does anyone do this:
>
> >
> > Does anyone on the list grow mushrooms? If yes,
can it be done
> > hydro/aquaponically? I would be interested in
finding out about the
> > necessary setup. I am still interested in learning
even if water cannot be
> > involved because recently I bought one of those
kitchen mushroom kits and
> I
> > got the best tasting mushrooms in my life. No
comparison with the store
> > bought stuff.
> >
> > Is there any special consideration when growing
mushrooms? I remember
> > reading that you have to do it in the dark. This
means that a greenhouse
> is
> > not necessary, what about temperatures, equipment,
etc. Any help greatly
> > appreciated.
> >
> > -_______________
> > Andrei D. Calciu (VA-4270)
> > NEC America, Inc.
> > 14040 Park Center Dr.
> > Herndon, VA 20171-3227
> >
> > Voice: 703-834-4273
> > Fax: 703-787-6613
> >
> > This message and any attachment are confidential.
If you are not the
> > intended recipient, please telephone or email the
sender and delete the
> > message and any attachment from your system. If
you are not the intended
> > recipient you must not copy this message or
attachment or disclose the
> > contents to any other person.
> >
>
>
__
>
> Get your free 'at' yahoo.com address at
http://mail.yahoo.com
| Message 14
Subject: Re: geo-hydroponics
From: kris book
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 22:52:52 -0600
Senhor Martins,
It's so nice to have you back, I hope you have time to
send a few posts.
Our last encounter left me with a hundred questions.
There seems to be
quite an uproar here right now about discussions other
than those
directly involved with aquaponics, so I'll try to only
ask about things
related to aquaponics.
1. Have you worked out a way to use geo-hydroponics
with an aquaponics
system
2. Can I contact you privately about setting up a
commercial biodigester
here
in the U.S.
3. Do you have any experience with the new certified
organic hydroponic
nutrient solution called "Metanaturals"
Thanks in advance,
kris book
|
