Aquaponics Digest - Sat 07/21/01
Message 1: AQUAPONIC MUSHROOMS
from dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.com
Message 2: Re: Does anyone do this:
from "STEVE SPRING"
Message 3: wicked witch!!??
from "STEVE SPRING"
Message 4: Re: wicked witch!!??
from dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.com
Message 5: November Conference
from "STEVE SPRING"
Message 6: Re: AQUAPONIC MUSHROOMS
from "gutierrez-lagatta"
Message 7: REPOST INFORMATION Re: November
Conference
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 8: RE: geo-hydroponics(digesters)
from "Mark Allen Wells"
Message 9: RE: geo-hydroponics(digesters)
from "Mark Allen Wells"
Message 10: mushrooms
from "Carlos R. Arano"
Message 11: Re: Vertigro
from "Jay Myers"
Message 12: Re: AQUAPONIC MUSHROOMS
from kris book
Message 13: RE: AQUAPONIC MUSHROOMS
from "Mark Allen Wells"
Message 14: Re: geo-hydroponics(digesters)
from "gutierrez-lagatta"
Message 15: Re: Vertigro
from kris book
Message 16: Re: mushrooms
from kris book
Message 17: Re: mushrooms
from "gutierrez-lagatta"
Message 18: Re: geo-hydroponics(digesters)
from kris book
Message 19: Re: mushrooms
from Raul Vergueiro Martins
Message 20: Re: AQUAPONIC MUSHROOMS
from Raul Vergueiro Martins
Message 21: Re: geo-hydroponics
from Raul Vergueiro Martins
Message 22: Re: geo-hydroponics(digesters)
from kris book
Message 23: Re: mushrooms
from "Thomas Short"
Message 24: Re: geo-hydroponics(digesters)
from Raul Vergueiro Martins
Message 25: Re: geo-hydroponics(digesters)
from Raul Vergueiro Martins
Message 26: Re: AQUAPONIC MUSHROOMS
from Raul Vergueiro Martins
Message 27: Re: geo-hydroponics(digesters)
from kris book
Message 28: Re: Does anyone do this:
from fishmanbruce 'at' webtv.net (Bruce
Schreiber)
Message 29: Re: AQUAPONIC MUSHROOMS
from fishmanbruce 'at' webtv.net (Bruce
Schreiber)
Message 30: Re: geo-hydroponics(digesters)
from fishmanbruce 'at' webtv.net (Bruce
Schreiber)
Message 31: Re: Marine aquaponics
from fishmanbruce 'at' webtv.net (Bruce
Schreiber)
Message 32: Re: Marine aquaponics
from fishmanbruce 'at' webtv.net (Bruce
Schreiber)
Message 33: Re: Marine aquaponics
from "Arlos"
Message 34: Re: Vertigro
from "Jay Myers"
Message 35: Re: geo-hydroponics(digesters)
from "Arlos"
Message 36: Re: geo-hydroponics(digesters)
from Raul Vergueiro Martins
Message 37: Re: Does anyone do this:
from Raul Vergueiro Martins
Message 38: Re: geo-hydroponics(digesters)
from Raul Vergueiro Martins
Message 39: OT - Hospice
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 40: Reply to - Re: OT - Hospice
from "David Atkinson"
Message 41: RE: geo-hydroponics(digesters) Caution on
Gas Toxicity
from "Hurst, Steve ( China)"
Message 42: RE: geo-hydroponics(digesters)
from "Mark Allen Wells"
Message 43: Re: Does anyone do this:
from kris book
Message 44: "Kool Ray" liquid shade
from dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.com
Message 45: Re: Marine aquaponics
from dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.com
| Message 1
Subject: AQUAPONIC MUSHROOMS
From: dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.com
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 00:40:20 -0700
I agree with Raul Carlos.
Mushrooms are something that I have been interested in
and seen growing
quite well, even under the growbeds so to speak.
There is a new and growing number of mushroom farms
here in Jamaica. If
you notice in my mail re alternative posts I am also a
member of the
group mycology 'at' egroups for all those interested.
Raul, could you give the list a DEFINITION of GEO
HYDROPONICS please??
I would also be interested in more information re this
issue if
possible.
Bruce and Carlos have you ever seen this site.
http://www.cropking.com/mushroom.shtml ???
Its very interesting to see their setup!!
Mike
JAMAICA
Raul Vergueiro Martins wrote:
But you know all this, Carlos. Why don't
> you try again?
> It will be a revolution in the production of
mushrooms.
> And may be this list, in small time will be an
information reference for the production of
> mushrooms.
> Aquaponics is not an Organic Hydroponic System?
> BTW, why don't you try geo-hydroponics in your
fodder production system? It is great.
| Message 2
Subject: Re: Does anyone do this:
From: "STEVE SPRING"
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 00:46:08 -0500
Carlos,
I disagree. I, for a minority of one, am interested in
this. I contacted
Crop King and they sent me a plan whereby I could grow
mushrooms for a
measly $1/2 million dollars.
If anyone has any info on this, I'm sure that Andrei &
I would be
interested.
I have a basement where I think I could grow
mushrooms.
Thanks & I apologize Carlos
.but you never know what
the interest of the
list is.
Yours truly
.Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carlos R. Arano"
To:
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 6:23 PM
Subject: RE: Does anyone do this:
Dear Andrei:
You cannot grow mushrooms using neither hydroponics
nor aquaponics.
Mushrooms need special compost to grow.
Some mushrooms does not require light. Other needs
some lighting.
What variety are you thinking about ? Agaricus,
pleurotus, shi i take,
boletus, morells,
3000 varieties?
This is not the proper list to consult. The subject is
out of the interest
of most the list members.
If you want more information I can give to you at your
own mail.
Also, there are many people can help you in USA. Check
Penn State University
Mushroom Lab or the American Mushroom Asociation at
Kennet Square, Penna.I
think they will help you, even much better that
myself.
Regards,
Carlos
PS: If you do not like headaches, mushrooms aren't for
you. I know by 15
years experience.
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 6:30 PM
Subject: Does anyone do this:
>
> Does anyone on the list grow mushrooms? If yes, can
it be done
> hydro/aquaponically? I would be interested in
finding out about the
> necessary setup. I am still interested in learning
even if water cannot be
> involved because recently I bought one of those
kitchen mushroom kits and
I
> got the best tasting mushrooms in my life. No
comparison with the store
> bought stuff.
>
> Is there any special consideration when growing
mushrooms? I remember
> reading that you have to do it in the dark. This
means that a greenhouse
is
> not necessary, what about temperatures, equipment,
etc. Any help greatly
> appreciated.
>
> -_______________
> Andrei D. Calciu (VA-4270)
> NEC America, Inc.
> 14040 Park Center Dr.
> Herndon, VA 20171-3227
>
> Voice: 703-834-4273
> Fax: 703-787-6613
>
> This message and any attachment are confidential.
If you are not the
> intended recipient, please telephone or email the
sender and delete the
> message and any attachment from your system. If you
are not the intended
> recipient you must not copy this message or
attachment or disclose the
> contents to any other person.
>
| Message 3
Subject: wicked witch!!??
From: "STEVE SPRING"
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 00:53:08 -0500
Paula,
You are not, nor ever could be, the "wicked witch".
So very sorry about your mother. I work in health care
and I know what a
heart-wrenching experience hospice can be. "Just
waiting for the end", but
it can drain you heart and soul. Been there.
SS
| Message 4
Subject: Re: wicked witch!!??
From: dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.com
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 01:24:33 -0700
I agree. Our prayers are with you.
(Wife, mother, mother in law are nurses! I can
relate.)
Mike
JAMAICA.
STEVE SPRING wrote:
>
> Paula,
>
> You are not, nor ever could be, the "wicked witch".
>
> So very sorry about your mother. I work in health
care and I know what a
> heart-wrenching experience hospice can be. "Just
waiting for the end", but
> it can drain you heart and soul. Been there.
>
> SS
| Message 5
Subject: November Conference
From: "STEVE SPRING"
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 01:21:20 -0500
HEY GUYS!! (Promoters of the November Conference)
Wake up!! Let the list members know a little
information about the November
conference. People are contacting me asking me for
information. I want this
to be a success. You didn't even ask me to give a
talk. I can talk all day
about things not to do.
I will be glad to help in promoting this, but I don't
want to "carry the
ball". Come on Folks, help us all out.
Paula (I feel I can speak for her about this.)
wouldn't mind you guys
promoting this. This is going to be a great thing, but
you guys have to
SPEAK OUT and let people know what is going on.
If you want me to promote this, I will.
TO THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE REQUESTED INFORMATION: Gordon
Creaser (a tremendous
resource person); Sam Bass, Charles Johnson and on and
on will be presenting
the program. It is from Nov 6th through Nov 9th. It is
going to be
TREMENDOUS. To get further info, contact:
cwjohnson 'at' graham.main.nc.us.
I'm sure that if you offer to boycott the program,
they may even offer me a
position to speak. I mean, I'm sure that all of you
would love to hear from
"socially insensitive" Steve
:) I mean, I am
such a shy person and
all.
Seriously though, this is going to be a great event.
I'm even dragging Bruce
Schreiber along with me
.kicking and screaing
.but
he is coming along. A
real nice meeting of all of us nestled in the
beautiful hills of NC. Not too
bad a picture!
See ya'll there
.Steve
| Message 6
Subject: Re: AQUAPONIC MUSHROOMS
From: "gutierrez-lagatta"
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 05:40:45 -0500
It looks like they are using sawdust filled growbags
in lieu of the
sawdust plugged logs. Interesting.> Bruce and Carlos have you ever seen this site.>
> http://www.cropking.com/mushroom.shtml ???
> Its very interesting to see their setup!!
Adriana
| Message 7
Subject: REPOST INFORMATION Re: November Conference
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 06:28:36 -0500
At 01:21 AM 07/21/2001 -0500, Steve Spring wrote:
>HEY GUYS!! (Promoters of the November Conference)
>
>Wake up!! Let the list members know a little
information about the November
>conference. People are contacting me asking me for
information. I want this
>to be a success. You didn't even ask me to give a
talk. I can talk all day
>about things not to do.
Steve- the information was just posted to the group
the end of June. If you
receive calls, just refer them to the organizers'
information below. Paula
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 06:49:57 -0500
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Subject: Fwd. - Aquaponics Course
From: Myra D Colgate
Hello, Everyone,
Please include this in your calendar of
events, messages, etc. to get the
information out to those you feel might benefit. If
you have any
questions please feel free to contact myself or
Charles.
Myra Colgate
Aquaculture International, Inc.
Journalist, E-mail: mldcol 'at' juno.com
Aquaculture International, Inc. is a USA non-profit
organization dedicated
to the economically sound, environmentally compatable
growth of the
aquaculture industry.
NEWS RELEASE
AQUAPONICS COURSE
Aquaponics interest is increasing globally in response
to more emphasis
on resource management, sustainability and waste
management. It involves
combining of aquaculture and hydroponics for mutual
benefit. To help meet
the demand for instruction, a practical course in
Aquaponics will be held in
Bryson City, NC, November 6 - 9, 2001.
Lecture and AV presentations will include components
of aquaponic systems,
fish and plant selection, balancing fish/plant
production for efficiency and
optimum
yields, utilizing old farm and other buildings, small
scale pilot projects,
systems design, natural pest control, meeting organic
standards, economics,
specialty
markets for higher profitability and accessing
technical assistance and
information.
Sites of interest, including a thriving commercial
hydroponic lettuce greenhouse
operation and a watercress production operation
utilizing trout farm
effluent water
will be visited.
The lead instructor will be Gordon Creaser, who has
been involved in hydroponics
for over 40 years and travels world-wide as an
aquaponic consultant. He is well
known for his down-to-earth practical advice. In
addition, owners of
several successful aquaponic facilities will share
useful information
concerning the design and operation of their systems.
The class atmosphere
will be informal, allowing plenty of time for
questions and
personal attention.
For a course brochure and registration information,
contact Aquaculture
International, Inc., P.O. Box 606, Andrews, NC 28901.
Phone or fax:
828-479-6294. Email:
cwjohnson 'at' graham.main.nc.us
| Message 8
Subject: RE: geo-hydroponics(digesters)
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 07:53:58 -0500
Kris,
I have been interested in anaerobic digesters ever
since
I was a wastewater treatment operator. We had 4 of
them
in our plant. We used the methane produced to run the
boiler that heated our buildings. Sometimes we used
it
in our huge blower engines that supplied air to the
aeration
tanks. We couldn't do this too much though because
the gas
wasn't clean enough
.sulfides and things caused
problems
with the engines
.great boiler fuel though. They
stopped
calling the processed sludge
.sludge
it became
bio-solids.
this link had some interesting notes on farms using
them here.
China has millions of them
.makes you wonder.
http://www.rcmdigesters.com/publications/10%20Digesters.htm
take it easy.mark
| Message 9
Subject: RE: geo-hydroponics(digesters)
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 08:11:36 -0500
PS
.(sorry, I hit the send key too fast)
Imagine a digester setting beside a row of greenhouses
supplying warmth to the rootzone year-round
at the
same
time converting plant waste to a valuable fertilizer
and
soil amendment
.fueled only by the fish and plant
waste you
are generating
.BYE BYE propane heaters (that heat
the
air rather than rootzone). Hydronic heating is the
way to
go
.boilers fueled by digesters are the way to do it.
(In my humble opinion).
Mark
---
| Message 10
Subject: mushrooms
From: "Carlos R. Arano"
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 10:16:28 -0300
Raul, Mike and Steve:
It is not my intention to enter in polemics. It
is nice to know
everything you say but
I WAS TWENTY YEARS LOOSING
MONEY WITH MUSHROOMS !
I was a member of the MGA (Mushroom Grower's
Association of England), I
read every magazine and book I found on the subject, I
went to Japan and
Taiwan to the 8th International Congress, I had the
Proceedings of all
Congresses from Nš 1 to Nš 10, I was in contact with
Penn State, I know
about most of the illness and pests on growing
them
.etc. etc
but
I LOST A LOT OF MONEY. I know the day by
day about the growing
pains of a mushrooms grower. You bet it!
Raul say:
> The first book I read about hydroponics, was
HIDROPONIA - CULTIVO DE
PLANTAS SIN TIERRA,
> written by G. O. Huterwal - Editorial Hobby, Com. e
Ind. - Buenos Aires -
Argentina
Huterwal was a pioneer. I feel his book was the
first writen in Spanish.
That was also my first book about hydroponics. In the
Introduction of my own
book, I mention his contribution to hydroponics. Yes,
he explained there as
Raul say:
> In that book, the author has a small chapter about
hydroponic mushrooms,
and he gives the
> formulas of the solution he used.
I tried as Raul do,
> I tried it, but with no success. Even so, the
author of that book made
it. So, there
> was some secret involved.
also without success. But, I was involved more and
more on the subject.
Exciting subject without doubts !.
> As I had studied mushroom production in the
traditional ways, the idea
came imediately,
> after reading that book: - Why not produce them
hydroponically?
Same as Raul, I liked the idea.
Until I knew more about mushrooms growing, how they
get their food, how they
decomposed cellulose materials, etc
One day, in spite of a good advise against it of a
fellow at the American
Mushroom Association, I started my mushrooms
enterprise. There I knew all
the pains. Fighting and fighting, I was living 15 to
20 years. Living ?.
Finally, one day, 5 years ago, I closed the doors.
In my thinking, maybe some day it will be possible to
produce mushrooms
commercially by ORGANIC HYDROPONICS methods but only
UNDER HIGH
TECHNOLOGICAL APPROACH. One of the battles to play in
order to get it is
fundamentally competitors macro and microorganisms. If
somebody get it, that
person will be the new Bill Gates.
I think this is already too long for our list. Lets
follow out of list if
you want it. Please let me know.
Carlos
| Message 11
Subject: Re: Vertigro
From: "Jay Myers"
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 08:48:25 -0500
Attie -
Sorry I've not answered - just got my computer back
from the modem hospital.
Heavy work schedule today, but will work on the
gazillion e-mails in next
day or so.
Jay
| Message 12
Subject: Re: AQUAPONIC MUSHROOMS
From: kris book
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 08:45:00 -0600
Mike,
Professor Martins has an awesome web site that can
give basic answers
about biodigesting. http://www.hydor.eng.br/Pag3-1.htm
On Sat, 21 Jul 2001 00:40:20 -0700
dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.com writes:
> I agree with Raul Carlos.
> Mushrooms are something that I have been interested
in and seen
> growing
> quite well, even under the growbeds so to speak.
> There is a new and growing number of mushroom farms
here in Jamaica.
> If
> you notice in my mail re alternative posts I am also
a member of
> the
> group mycology 'at' egroups for all those interested.
>
> Raul, could you give the list a DEFINITION of GEO
HYDROPONICS
> please??
>
> I would also be interested in more information re
this issue if
> possible.
>
> Bruce and Carlos have you ever seen this site.>
> http://www.cropking.com/mushroom.shtml ???
> Its very interesting to see their setup!!
>
> Mike
> JAMAICA
>
>
>
>
>
> Raul Vergueiro Martins wrote:
>
> But you know all this, Carlos. Why don't
> > you try again?
> > It will be a revolution in the production of
mushrooms.
> > And may be this list, in small time will be an
information
> reference for the production of
> > mushrooms.
> > Aquaponics is not an Organic Hydroponic System?
> > BTW, why don't you try geo-hydroponics in your
fodder production
> system? It is great.
>
| Message 13
Subject: RE: AQUAPONIC MUSHROOMS
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 10:55:38 -0500
Great link kris! I know what I will be reading on
lunch hour
today:) Everyone should bookmark this one
it's a
keeper.
Thanks
. to you and Professor Martins
Mark
---
Mike,
Professor Martins has an awesome web site that can
give basic answers
about biodigesting. http://www.hydor.eng.br/Pag3-1.htm
| Message 14
Subject: Re: geo-hydroponics(digesters)
From: "gutierrez-lagatta"
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 12:39:32 -0500
Let me pipe in here in case Raul is off-list. (
California-style
energy shortages in Brazil have led to government
madated rationing
and blackouts which make computer time even more
precious and ISP
shut-downs frequent.) I believe that Raul would agree
that the gas
needs to be cleaned to be usuable in a lot of
applications.
Regarding the sludge, Raul's process uses a unique
combination of
aerobic and anaerobic digestion which produces a
sludge-free
biofertilizer that can be used for hydroponic or soil
fertilization.
In order to produce a sludge-free ebnd product you
need a uniform
manure or effluent input which is free of cellulose
fibers. So the
issue of animal housing, such as caged hens vs.
free-range are
important. In aquaponics you have a consistent,
uniform input and the
solids can be settled out of the effluent and run
through a
biodigester.
> tanks. We couldn't do this too much though because
the gas
> wasn't clean enough
.sulfides and things caused
problems
> with the engines
.great boiler fuel though.
When I hear the term "biosolids" (doesn't it sound
innocuous?) I think
"municipal waste biosolids" with all of the possible
toxic inputs that
go through a city sewer, including illegally dumped
chemicals and
industrial output.
> They stopped
> calling the processed sludge
.sludge
it became
bio-solids.
Adriana
| Message 15
Subject: Re: Vertigro
From: kris book
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 09:32:26 -0600
Jay,
Can you please tell me how many of the basic Vertigro
towers are
necessary to grow 12,000 strawberry plants? And how
much does the price
change when buying that many?
kris book
| Message 16
Subject: Re: mushrooms
From: kris book
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 09:28:07 -0600
Carlos,
I am not 100% sure but, I think that Senhor Martins is
willing to give us
the secret to growing mushrooms successfully in an
aquaponics system. I
don't know enough about growing mushrooms to ask
intelligent questions
but, you do so please ask for the rest of us. I know
that you are pretty
much fed up with all the problems that mushrooms have
caused you but,
please make an effort to get this info out to the rest
of us that don't
have mushroom scars. Thank you sir.
kris book
| Message 17
Subject: Re: mushrooms
From: "gutierrez-lagatta"
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 12:50:59 -0500
Calros,
Thanks for the reality-check on mushrooms as a
business. I didn't
quite understand what you meant by the statement
below. If you
resubmit what you meant in Spanish I will translate it
for the group.
> One of the battles to play in order to get it is
> fundamentally competitors macro and microorganisms.
If somebody get
it, that
> person will be the new Bill Gates.
I would vote to keep it on the list.> I think this is already too long for our list. Lets
follow out of
list if
> you want it. Please let me know.
Adriana
| Message 18
Subject: Re: geo-hydroponics(digesters)
From: kris book
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 10:48:31 -0600
Mark,
Thank you for that link on biodigesters. I agree with
you on their
importantance if we are going to go to the next step
in sustainable food
production. It won't be long before they're trading
shit on the New York
Stock Exchange, and why not, it is just unrefined fuel
and organic
fertilizer. As you read last night I asked Professor
Martin about setting
up a commercial biodigester.
My mission is to set a closed eco-system that will
provide all the food,
fuel, electricity, heating and cooling necessary to
supply a neighborhood
sized community with everything it needs to live
comfortably. I think
that aquaponics is a really fantastic discovery but,
since my goal is to
grow all of the food necessary to sustain life
happily, I think that it
will be imperative to seperate the fish from the
plants so that heavy
feeders like corn can be grown without hurting the
fish with the
increased nutrients that are given to the plants that
need it. Also, if
someone wants to increase yield by adding CO2
injection, it is also
important to raise light and nutrient levels to
maintain the balance that
is mandatory in crop production.
I know this is not the sustainable agriculture or
sustainable community
mailing list so I've asked Senhor Martin to take this
discussion
off-list. If anyone else is interested and Raul, his
partner Melvin
Landers, and our own wonderful Adriana don't mind, I
will be happy to
share the info that is generated with anyone
interested. If enough people
speak up and Paula agrees, we can bring this thread
back to the list. So,
in order to keep everyone's mailboxes from bulging,
send me your
addresses and I'll compile a list of those interested
to present to the
mailing list.
On Sat, 21 Jul 2001 07:53:58 -0500 "Mark Allen Wells"
writes:
> Kris,
>
> I have been interested in anaerobic digesters ever
since
> I was a wastewater treatment operator. We had 4 of
them
> in our plant. We used the methane produced to run
the
> boiler that heated our buildings. Sometimes we used
it
> in our huge blower engines that supplied air to the
aeration
> tanks. We couldn't do this too much though because
the gas
> wasn't clean enough
.sulfides and things caused
problems
> with the engines
.great boiler fuel though. They
stopped
> calling the processed sludge
.sludge
it became
bio-solids.
>
> this link had some interesting notes on farms using
them here.
> China has millions of them
.makes you wonder.>
http://www.rcmdigesters.com/publications/10%20Digesters.htm
>
> take it easy.> mark
>
| Message 19
Subject: Re: mushrooms
From: Raul Vergueiro Martins
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 16:03:00 +0100
Hi Carlos:
I can imagine how much you suffered with mushrooms.
I felt that on my skin.
But I have never been a real producer. Only a
researcher.
The only thing that I want to tell, is that it is
possible to produce them Hydroponically.
And as I said, I don't reccomend this for a beginner.
Many researches have to be done on the hydroponic
system, but one thing I can tell you.
It is more ease to produce them hydroponically.
The first you headache you eliminate is with the
preparations of the compost.
Raul Vergueiro Martins
rvm 'at' sti.com.br
"Carlos R. Arano" wrote:
> Raul, Mike and Steve:
> It is not my intention to enter in polemics. It
is nice to know
> everything you say but
I WAS TWENTY YEARS LOOSING
MONEY WITH MUSHROOMS !
| Message 20
Subject: Re: AQUAPONIC MUSHROOMS
From: Raul Vergueiro Martins
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 16:03:18 +0100
Hello Mike:
Please visit my site at http://www.hydor.eng.br
You will find there a lot about Geo-Hydroponics and
Biodigestion.
For a small biodigester, please do contact Mr. Melvin
Landers at agrimel 'at' yahoo.com
Raul Vergueiro Martins
rvm 'at' sti.com.br
dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.com wrote:
> I agree with Raul Carlos.
> Mushrooms are something that I have been interested
in and seen growing
> quite well, even under the growbeds so to speak.
> There is a new and growing number of mushroom farms
here in Jamaica. If
> you notice in my mail re alternative posts I am also
a member of the
> group mycology 'at' egroups for all those interested.
>
> Raul, could you give the list a DEFINITION of GEO
HYDROPONICS please??
>
> I would also be interested in more information re
this issue if
> possible.
>
> Bruce and Carlos have you ever seen this site.>
> http://www.cropking.com/mushroom.shtml ???
> Its very interesting to see their setup!!
>
> Mike
> JAMAICA
>
> Raul Vergueiro Martins wrote:
>
> But you know all this, Carlos. Why don't
> > you try again?
> > It will be a revolution in the production of
mushrooms.
> > And may be this list, in small time will be an
information reference for the production of
> > mushrooms.
> > Aquaponics is not an Organic Hydroponic System?
> > BTW, why don't you try geo-hydroponics in your
fodder production system? It is great.
| Message 21
Subject: Re: geo-hydroponics
From: Raul Vergueiro Martins
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 16:25:17 +0100
Hello Kris:
I have never been out. Everyday I read the mails
from this wonderful list, but not
allways I have sufficient knowledges to answer some
questions made.
I have been involved with the development of a small
biodigester mainly for philantropical
purposes, and I finished the drawings only some 15
days ago. There are 67 drawings in
the complete project.
I am now writting the handbook that goes with the
drawings.
Contact Adriana Gutierrez or Melvin Landers about
that.
kris book wrote:
> Senhor Martins,
>
> It's so nice to have you back, I hope you have time
to send a few posts.
> Our last encounter left me with a hundred questions.
There seems to be
> quite an uproar here right now about discussions
other than those
> directly involved with aquaponics, so I'll try to
only ask about things
> related to aquaponics.
I like those discussions, because they teach us a lot,
and the most important, they bring
us a lot of friends.
> 1. Have you worked out a way to use geo-hydroponics
with an aquaponics
> system
Yes. Just unlink the systems. Filter the feces and
send them to a biodigester. Then,
mix the biofertilizer obtained to the rearing tanks.
> 2. Can I contact you privately about setting up a
commercial biodigester
> here in the U.S.
Yes, you can. But first, contact Mr. Melvin Landers
and or Mrs. Adriana Gutierrez. We
are working together.
> 3. Do you have any experience with the new
certified organic hydroponic
> nutrient solution called "Metanaturals"
No, I have not.
> Thanks in advance,
> kris book
Raul Vergueiro Martins
rvm 'at' sti.com.br
| Message 22
Subject: Re: geo-hydroponics(digesters)
From: kris book
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 12:11:09 -0600
Adriana,
I received a post from Melvin Landers this morning, in
which he mentioned
that you have experimented with numerous organic
hydroponic solutions. My
first question is, how long will a biofertilizer last
before fermentation
makes it unusable? Secondly, have you had any contact
with a product
called Metanaturals? It is an certified organic
commercial hydroponic
solution. Please expand on these subjects when you
find time.
kris
| Message 23
Subject: Re: mushrooms
From: "Thomas Short"
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 13:00:26 -0700
=_NextPart_001_0000_01C111E5.1C9CB6E0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Check out this it may help
http://www.cropking.com/mushroom.shtml =20
=20
----- Original Message -----
From: Raul Vergueiro Martins
Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2001 12:05 PM
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Subject: Re: mushrooms
=20
Hi Carlos:
I can imagine how much you suffered with mushrooms.
I felt that on my s=
kin.
But I have never been a real producer. Only a
researcher.
The only thing that I want to tell, is that it is
possible to produce the=
m Hydroponically.
And as I said, I don't reccomend this for a beginner.
Many researches have to be done on the hydroponic
system, but one thing I=
can tell you.
It is more ease to produce them hydroponically.
The first you headache you eliminate is with the
preparations of the comp=
ost.
Raul Vergueiro Martins
rvm 'at' sti.com.br
"Carlos R. Arano" wrote:
> Raul, Mike and Steve:
> It is not my intention to enter in polemics. It
is nice to know
> everything you say but
I WAS TWENTY YEARS LOOSING
MONEY WITH MUSHROO=
MS !
=_NextPart_001_0000_01C111E5.1C9CB6E0
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Check out this=
it may help ----- Original Message -----
From: Raul Vergueir=
o Martins Sent: Saturday, Ju=
ly 21, 2001 12:05 PM To: aqu=
aponics 'at' townsqr.com Subject:=
Re: mushrooms Hi
Carlos:
I can imagine how=
much you suffered with mushrooms. I felt
that on my skin.But I have never been a real producer.
Only a researcher.The only thing that I want to tell, is that it is
possible to produce th=
em Hydroponically.
And as I said, I don't
reccomend this for a beg=
inner.
Many researches have to be done on the
hydroponic system, but o=
ne thing I can tell you.
It is more ease to produce
them hydroponicall=
y.
The first you headache you eliminate is with the
preparations of th=
e compost.
Raul Vergueiro
Martins
rvm 'at' sti.com.br
"Carlos=
R. Arano" wrote:
> Raul, Mike and
Steve:
> &n=
bsp; It is not my intention to enter in
polemics. It is nice =
to know
> everything you say but
I WAS TWENTY
YEARS LOOSING MONE=
Y WITH MUSHROOMS
!
=
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download :
=_NextPart_001_0000_01C111E5.1C9CB6E0--
| Message 24
Subject: Re: geo-hydroponics(digesters)
From: Raul Vergueiro Martins
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 17:09:12 +0100
Hello Mark:
You would not have those problems if you had a
multiple chamber digester.
About the biogas, why didn't you clean it before use?
No sulfide gas, no carbonic gas.
Just methane.
Raul Vergueiro Martins
rvm 'at' sti.com.br
Mark Allen Wells wrote:
> Kris,
>
> I have been interested in anaerobic digesters ever
since
> I was a wastewater treatment operator. We had 4 of
them
> in our plant. We used the methane produced to run
the
> boiler that heated our buildings.
| Message 25
Subject: Re: geo-hydroponics(digesters)
From: Raul Vergueiro Martins
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 17:09:30 +0100
Hi Mark:
You got the point.
That is what a biodigester can do.
Raul Vergueiro Martins
rvm 'at' sti.com.br
Mark Allen Wells wrote:
> PS
.(sorry, I hit the send key too fast)
>
> Imagine a digester setting beside a row of
greenhouses
> supplying warmth to the rootzone year-round
at
the same
> time converting plant waste to a valuable fertilizer
and
> soil amendment
.fueled only by the fish and plant
waste you
> are generating
.BYE BYE propane heaters (that heat
the
> air rather than rootzone). Hydronic heating is the
way to
> go
.boilers fueled by digesters are the way to do
it.
> (In my humble opinion).
>
> Mark
> ---
| Message 26
Subject: Re: AQUAPONIC MUSHROOMS
From: Raul Vergueiro Martins
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 17:10:00 +0100
Hello Mark:
Thanks for these words about my site. You are very
kind.
You can print it. Each item is independent, and all
the site makes a small handbook.
Thanks once more.
Raul Vergueiro Martins
rvm 'at' sti.com.br
Mark Allen Wells wrote:
> Great link kris! I know what I will be reading on
lunch hour
> today:) Everyone should bookmark this one
it's a
keeper.
> Thanks
. to you and Professor Martins
> Mark
> ---
>
> Mike,
>
> Professor Martins has an awesome web site that can
give basic answers
> about biodigesting.
http://www.hydor.eng.br/Pag3-1.htm
| Message 27
Subject: Re: geo-hydroponics(digesters)
From: kris book
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 15:03:43 -0600
Senhor Martins,
I read on the Renewable Energy list that methane gas
is quite toxic and
dangerous.
They recommend that ethanol and biodiesel are a much
better products to
make from biodigesters. Your views on this subject,
please.
kris
| Message 28
Subject: Re: Does anyone do this:
From: fishmanbruce 'at' webtv.net (Bruce Schreiber)
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 18:27:42 -0500 (CDT)
Raul what is Geo hydroponics?How can I use it in a
system? Since going
for a walk through the Biosphere 2 12 years ago I
have had an idea
that I've been working on in my head using live stock
penned over the
fish tanks such as Guinie pigs, rabbits,ducks,chickens
and bees to
change the waist stream a bit for different plants and
have the
mussels,fish and redclaws and turtles separated were
necessary to clean
up the extra feed and manure using a marsh in a living
mudbed tank in
line with the regular S-S type system could a sand
mushroom bed work in
such a system on a different timing loop.
Bruce
| Message 29
Subject: Re: AQUAPONIC MUSHROOMS
From: fishmanbruce 'at' webtv.net (Bruce Schreiber)
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 18:34:16 -0500 (CDT)
Mike thanks for the link.
Bruce
| Message 30
Subject: Re: geo-hydroponics(digesters)
From: fishmanbruce 'at' webtv.net (Bruce Schreiber)
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 19:28:08 -0500 (CDT)
Kris screw the off list talk keep it on this list at
least 25% of us
must be interested in the same concept that you stated
as a goal.
Bruce
| Message 31
Subject: Re: Marine aquaponics
From: fishmanbruce 'at' webtv.net (Bruce Schreiber)
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 19:47:53 -0500 (CDT)
Robby what have you found out about fluoride tolerance
in fish or
plants? Does it get concentrated by them? Arlos what
do you think
about it
Bruce
| Message 32
Subject: Re: Marine aquaponics
From: fishmanbruce 'at' webtv.net (Bruce Schreiber)
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 19:54:37 -0500 (CDT)
Who out there is working with Marine systems
Are Ted and Marc back on yet
Bruce
| Message 33
Subject: Re: Marine aquaponics
From: "Arlos"
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 19:15:27 -0700
Bruce,
Great question and at this point, I honestly know
the answer. I'll try and
look through all the sites I can find. On a note
though, regardless of the
type of operation I would certainly have a complete
water analyses done on
the source water as that could be treated prior to
filling tanks or
raceways. Fluorocilicates can be easily removed by
nanofiltration. Chromium
3 which is commonly found in borite and serpentine and
reverts to chromium 6
via an oxygen or DO exposure and may be found in fish.
This brings to mind
another quick search I'm going to jump on tonight. I
think redox may lesson
total chrome via a sulfate reducing iron media. Hmmm,
ya get one little
question and you end up spending the whole night
pouring over a few dozen
sites and digging up an aquatic chemistry text off the
shelf. Our municipal
water does not have Fluoride so I've never had this as
an issue.
Arlos
-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Schreiber
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Date: Saturday, July 21, 2001 5:48 PM
Subject: Re: Marine aquaponics
Robby what have you found out about fluoride tolerance
in fish or
plants? Does it get concentrated by them? Arlos what
do you think
about it
Bruce
| Message 34
Subject: Re: Vertigro
From: "Jay Myers"
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 21:20:12 -0500
Hi Kris -
Well - 4 plants / pot, 8 pots high = 375 towers if you
are putting then
inside a greenhouse. They work well outside too.
Don't forget you need a
swivel and center pole for each tower too.
I'm not sure what Tim is charging for pots now. Think
I paid about $1.20
each plus freight. They come 200 per pallet.
What part of the country are you in ?
I have about 6000 here in Panama City, Fl. for sale.
I'm selling my
greenhouse and the new folks don't want them. I'm
moving to Idaho - too far
to haul the pots with all my other stuff.
Jay
> Can you please tell me how many of the basic
Vertigro towers are
> necessary to grow 12,000 strawberry plants? And how
much does the price
> change when buying that many?
| Message 35
Subject: Re: geo-hydroponics(digesters)
From: "Arlos"
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 19:25:21 -0700
Kris,
I for one welcome the biodigester thread on the
board. Its been
fascinating reading. One note about cleaning the
methane of HS2. If a small
efficient sulfur scrubbing tower could be adapted you
would reduce the
corrosive component. Methane is by nature odorless and
colorless and has a
nasty habit of displacing O2 and also settles in low
areas, hense heavier
than air. I 'd like to be able to biodigest some of
our california political
leaders (sh_t), that would indeed supply this state
with more than enough
energy needs.
Arlos
-----Original Message-----
From: kris book
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Cc: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Date: Saturday, July 21, 2001 10:55 AM
Subject: Re: geo-hydroponics(digesters)
>Mark,
>
>Thank you for that link on biodigesters. I agree with
you on their
>importantance if we are going to go to the next step
in sustainable food
>production. It won't be long before they're trading
shit on the New York
>Stock Exchange, and why not, it is just unrefined
fuel and organic
>fertilizer. As you read last night I asked Professor
Martin about setting
>up a commercial biodigester.
>
>My mission is to set a closed eco-system that will
provide all the food,
>fuel, electricity, heating and cooling necessary to
supply a neighborhood
>sized community with everything it needs to live
comfortably. I think
>that aquaponics is a really fantastic discovery but,
since my goal is to
>grow all of the food necessary to sustain life
happily, I think that it
>will be imperative to seperate the fish from the
plants so that heavy
>feeders like corn can be grown without hurting the
fish with the
>increased nutrients that are given to the plants that
need it. Also, if
>someone wants to increase yield by adding CO2
injection, it is also
>important to raise light and nutrient levels to
maintain the balance that
>is mandatory in crop production.
>
>I know this is not the sustainable agriculture or
sustainable community
>mailing list so I've asked Senhor Martin to take this
discussion
>off-list. If anyone else is interested and Raul, his
partner Melvin
>Landers, and our own wonderful Adriana don't mind, I
will be happy to
>share the info that is generated with anyone
interested. If enough people
>speak up and Paula agrees, we can bring this thread
back to the list. So,
>in order to keep everyone's mailboxes from bulging,
send me your
>addresses and I'll compile a list of those interested
to present to the
>mailing list.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>On Sat, 21 Jul 2001 07:53:58 -0500 "Mark Allen Wells"
> writes:
>> Kris,
>>
>> I have been interested in anaerobic digesters ever
since
>> I was a wastewater treatment operator. We had 4 of
them
>> in our plant. We used the methane produced to run
the
>> boiler that heated our buildings. Sometimes we
used it
>> in our huge blower engines that supplied air to the
aeration
>> tanks. We couldn't do this too much though because
the gas
>> wasn't clean enough
.sulfides and things caused
problems
>> with the engines
.great boiler fuel though. They
stopped
>> calling the processed sludge
.sludge
it became
bio-solids.
>>
>> this link had some interesting notes on farms using
them here.
>> China has millions of them
.makes you wonder.>>
http://www.rcmdigesters.com/publications/10%20Digesters.htm
>>
>> take it easy.>> mark
>>
>
| Message 36
Subject: Re: geo-hydroponics(digesters)
From: Raul Vergueiro Martins
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 23:36:09 +0100
Hello Kris:
kris book wrote:
> Senhor Martins,
>
> I read on the Renewable Energy list that methane gas
is quite toxic and
> dangerous.
Yes, it is quite toxic in very large quantities, and
it is dangerous as it is a
combustible gas.
> They recommend that ethanol and biodiesel are a much
better products to
> make from biodigesters. Your views on this subject,
please.
Ethanol from a biodigester?
We produce here ethanol from sugar cane.
I can't say anything about biodiesel. I heard about
the process, but I have had no time
to read about it.
Raul Vergueiro Martins
rvm 'at' sti.com.br
| Message 37
Subject: Re: Does anyone do this:
From: Raul Vergueiro Martins
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 23:36:24 +0100
Hello Bruce:
Bruce Schreiber wrote:
> Raul what is Geo hydroponics?How can I use it in a
system?
For you to understand the system, I would invite you
to visit my site at
http://www.hydor.eng.br
In two words, geo-hydroponics is similar to
aquaponics, but the two biomasses involved are
unlinked.
Instead of using fishes (aquatic animals), we use
terrestrial animals, whatever they are.
The word "geo" is used to denominate terrestrial
animas, just like in aquaponics where
"aqua" is used to denominate aquatic animals
> Since going for a walk through the Biosphere 2 12
years ago I have had an idea
> that I've been working on in my head using live
stock penned over the
> fish tanks such as Guinie pigs,
rabbits,ducks,chickens and bees to
> change the waist stream a bit for different plants
and have the
> mussels,fish and redclaws and turtles separated were
necessary to clean
> up the extra feed and manure using a marsh in a
living mudbed tank in
> line with the regular S-S type system could a sand
mushroom bed work in
> such a system on a different timing loop.
I believe that such a system would not work, at least
for mushrooms.
A mushroom is not a plant. It behaves completely
different from these ones, and it is
adviseable for those that pretend to deal with those
"incomplete plants", to know
something about their physiology.
For instance, they have no leaves nor chlorophyl, and
so, they can not break carbonic gas
to produce sugar, and from this one to have a source
or Carbon.
Generally they produce enzimes that decompose
cellulose and they use it as a source of
Carbon.
So, a mushroom needs "liquid carbon", and they can get
it from organic compounds. But
the molecules of these compounds must be very small
for them to absorb them.
You have a series of those organic compounds in the
soluble humus present in the
biofertilizer.
On the other side, carbon dioxide is a need for a
plant, but it is a poison to a mushroom,
though mushrooms "excrete" lots of it.
That is why in the ambients where you cultivate
mushrooms, you need a high level of
ventilation to clean air from that gas.
Agaricus, for instance does well in temperatures
around 16 or 17 centigrade degrees, and a
relative humidity of 80 to 90 %. These conditions
are quite different than those needed
for plants.
I'm saying this in very simple words, as things are
more complex than this.
But regarding you ideas, some years ago I made a very
interesting experiment.
I mounted a series of NFT channels over a
vermicomposting bed, to take advantage of the
carbon dioxide hexaled from it. I got 32 to 37 %
more productivity with lettuce, and 40
to 42% more with cabbages.
I think that this endorses your ideas, but not with
mushrooms.
Paula's system also takes advantage from a similar
situation, as fish feces decompose in
the growing beds, hexaling carbon dioxide too.
Regarding you idea, it will work quite well, if you
join all the feces of your animals in
trays, for instance, and then carry them to a
biodigester.
But NEVER USE THE FECES TO FEED YOUR FISHES OR ANY
OTHER ANIMALS, AS SOONNER OR LATER
NATURE WILL GIVE YOU THE EXANGE. In my opinion, that
is a crime, though in US, and even
in Brazil, many people feed fish, cattle and hogs with
manure. But this is changing, and
at least here, some laws will prohibit that practice
untill the end of this year.
Excuse me, Paula. I and my long messages.
Raul Vergueiro Martins
rvm 'at' sti.com.br
| Message 38
Subject: Re: geo-hydroponics(digesters)
From: Raul Vergueiro Martins
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 23:46:51 +0100
Hi Arlos:
I would like to do the same with our political leaders
here.
I'm sure that we would have a lot of energy, and I
could use my computer during some hours
more a day.
Raul Vergueiro Martins
rvm 'at' sti.com.br
Arlos wrote:
> Kris,
>
> I for one welcome the biodigester thread on the
board. Its been
> fascinating reading. One note about cleaning the
methane of HS2. If a small
> efficient sulfur scrubbing tower could be adapted
you would reduce the
> corrosive component. Methane is by nature odorless
and colorless and has a
> nasty habit of displacing O2 and also settles in low
areas, hense heavier
> than air. I 'd like to be able to biodigest some of
our california political
> leaders (sh_t), that would indeed supply this state
with more than enough
> energy needs.
>
> Arlos
| Message 39
Subject: OT - Hospice
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 21:56:46 -0500
At 12:53 AM 07/21/2001 -0500, Steve and Mike wrote:
>So very sorry about your mother. I work in health
care and I know what a
>heart-wrenching experience hospice can be. "Just
waiting for the end", but
>it can drain you heart and soul. Been there.
AND
>I agree. Our prayers are with you.
>(Wife, mother, mother in law are nurses! I can
relate.)
Thanks to you both, and to all who responded to my
comments off-list. I
appreciate each of you. I hadn't intended to air my
concerns, but I guess
we all leak a little personal information when we most
need to.
Our Hospice experience thus far as been wonderful, and
is a great blessing
to those of us (primarily my youngest sister) who are
responsible for the
day-to-day things, keeping Mom at home as long as we
possibly can. I had no
idea how many large and small details they are
equipped to handle, nor how
big a difference it can make. Having a nurse check
her several times and
week and coordinate directly with the doctors has been
such a relief --
second-guessing symptoms and determining what to do
were leaving us with a
definite feeling of inadequacy, not to mention the
fear of missing something
that should be dealt with immediately.
And this is definitely one of those times that living
in a small town has
it's benefits -- we've received so much support from
those who've heard of
this "in passing", not to mention the many favors
rendered by friends (ours
and hers).
Again, thanks for the support from this group, and
I'll try to keep myself
tuned in as often as I can.
Paula
| Message 40
Subject: Reply to - Re: OT - Hospice
From: "David Atkinson"
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 22:12:12 -0400
Hi Paula,
My prayers are with you and your family at this time.
Keep the faith.
David Atkinson
atkindw 'at' cybervale.com
| Message 41
Subject: RE: geo-hydroponics(digesters) Caution on Gas
Toxicity
From: "Hurst, Steve ( China)"
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 11:26:38 +0800
Hi,
Been following this thread with interest, as I also
intend to build
a Bio-Digester.
As I work in the Natural Gas Process Industry, thought
I would pass on a
note of caution with regard to the unwanted part of
Bio-gas, i.e. Hydrogen
Sulphide.
Believe the topic is relevent to the list as there are
quite a few people
involved
in the discussion.
Following up on the comment on toxicity of gases, one
of the most Toxic
gases
known is actually the Hydrogen Sulphide ( H2S
)component of Bio-Gas,
that needs to be removed.
Smells like rotten eggs, but dont be fooled by this as
even in low
concentrations,
the olfactory sense of the brain quickly becomes
overwhelmed and loses the
ability to smell this gas.
This then makes Hydrogen Sulphide "odourless".
Hydrogen Sulphide is Heavier than air.
Explosive Range of H2S is Extremely wide, from 4.3% to
46% by volume.
It is Highly soluble in water and liquid Hydrocarbons
at elevated pressures,
and will be released as a gas again at ambient
temperatures
( use this concept for designing your H2S scrubber !
).
When Burnt, H2S produces another toxic gas, Sulphur
Dioxide ( SO2 )
Toxicity range :- ( PPM , Parts Per Million )
0.003 -.02 =Odor Threshold
Above 10 ppm , Toxic, wear Respiratory Protection
Below 10 ppm, Quickly Deadens sence of smell
Above 300 ppm, Considered Immediately dangerous to
Life and Health ( IDLH
)
Above 500 ppm, Attacks Respiratory sence in brain,
causes loss of
Consciouseness within 15 mins.
Above 700 ppm, Rapid loss of consciousness and death.
Above 1000 ppm, Immediate loss of consciouseness and
death.
Biogas can easily amass concentrations within these
ranges above.
Also bear in mind, gas scrubbers as would be needed to
remove the H2S,
usually
have a recyclable liquid as the medium. This recycling
process can quickly
produce abnormally
high concentrations in the area, such as in a
containment area, or building
associated with this process.
H2S, as has already been mentioned, is highly
corrosive. Even stainless
steels are
not immune. Vessels, pipework etc really needs to be
316 stainles, or Monel.
However, even these high dollar materials are not
immune, H2S can produce
Sulphide
Stress cracks in 316 stainless Vessels.
Carbon Steels do not last very long at all ! (
including the inside of an
Engine )
The Higher the temperatures, the worst the effect.
Hope these notes have been of some help to you budding
gas-producers out
there !
Steve H
-----Original Message-----
From: Raul Vergueiro Martins [mailto:rvm 'at' sti.com.br]
Sent: 22 July 2001 06:36
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Subject: Re: geo-hydroponics(digesters)
Hello Kris:
kris book wrote:
> Senhor Martins,
>
> I read on the Renewable Energy list that methane gas
is quite toxic and
> dangerous.
Yes, it is quite toxic in very large quantities, and
it is dangerous as it
is a
combustible gas.
> They recommend that ethanol and biodiesel are a much
better products to
> make from biodigesters. Your views on this subject,
please.
Ethanol from a biodigester?
We produce here ethanol from sugar cane.
I can't say anything about biodiesel. I heard about
the process, but I
have had no time
to read about it.
Raul Vergueiro Martins
rvm 'at' sti.com.br
| Message 42
Subject: RE: geo-hydroponics(digesters)
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 23:17:10 -0500
Arlos and Professor Martins,
I agree about politics and BS
.it's shame
they
are holding back so much technology to protect the
status
quo.
I'm not sure why our utility department never
installed
a scrubber. I wondered at the time (1980's and early
90's when
I was there and they still haven't).
For those who may wonder what we have been
talking about
and want to learn more, or anyone that wants to see a
great
low-tech system check out this link
.great site.
http://www.roseworthy.adelaide.edu.au/~pharris/biogas/beginners
Scroll down to the bottom and check out the
link to
Building a Poly Digester.
Some may think a Bio-Gas discussion is off
topic here.If you do, consider that plants and fish generate
waste. Waste can be
(and SHOULD be) converted to energy. It can be
thermal energy
like methane
.or caloric energy such as larvae and
redworms
that eat the waste and turn into fish food
.or
valuable fertilizer that
replaces the enormous energy consumed by industrial
fertilizer
production. Waste to energy is a concept that many of
us try
to utilize.
Steve, thanks for the note on hydrogen
sulfide! It nearly
killed me once in my early sewer maintenance days.
That being
said, don't let it scare any of you. It can be
removed. It is
good to be aware of it and understand it though.
fun thread
.take care everyone.Mark
| Message 43
Subject: Re: Does anyone do this:
From: kris book
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 22:35:14 -0600
Raul,
Pardon me but, my brain always has one more question.
Do you have any
idea how much mushrooms can raise the CO2 levels in a
confined space? As
you probably know, there are about 300 ppm (parts per
million) of CO2 in
the air we breathe but, plants thrive with up to 7
times that amount. It
seems to me, if mushrooms create a lot of CO2, then we
should build a
mushroom room near the greenhouse and a storage tank
there also, so we
could hold the CO2 until we are ready to feed it to
the plants.
kris
| Message 44
Subject: "Kool Ray" liquid shade
From: dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.com
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 00:05:52 -0700
Dave could you expand a bit more as to what this is
supposed to be and
what this was related to?? Is this a paint thingee
that one uses on
greenhouse glass?
Mike.
DAVEINBHAM 'at' aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 7/16/01 11:11:37 PM Central
Standard Time,
> aquaponics-digest-request 'at' townsqr.com writes:
>
> << For a commercial mix you can buy "Kool Ray"
liquid shade. It comes
> in Regular and Easy-Off. It is always diluted to
achieve the desired degree
> of shading, with average dilution of 8 to 1. I have
used the Easy-Off and
> found it can be washed off with some scrubbing
after being baked in the New
> Mexico sun. I don't know how well it stands up in
high rainfall climates. >>
>
****************************************************************
> I have used "Kool Ray " here in Alabama where we
average 55 inches of rain a
> year and it works rather well.
> Regards,
> Dave
| Message 45
Subject: Re: Marine aquaponics
From: dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.com
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 00:11:52 -0700
Looking forwards to this and ony other input on the
subject.
Mike
JAMAICA
Robby Richards wrote:
> I have lost my bookmarks on the salt water asparagus
research that I
> was talking about earlier.
> For you folks on
> the list from Jamiaca and other areas, this could be
an excellent
> choice to add to your aquaponics mix of crops.
It will be several months before I
> have any hard facts for you, but I will post it when
I have some data.
>
> Robby
|
