Aquaponics Digest - Wed 07/25/01
Message 1: Re: hydroponics in National Geographic
from kris book
Message 2: RE: On and Off Topic Ponderings (Not Too
Long)
from "Mark Allen Wells"
Message 3: Greenwater sludge>>methane
from "Mark Allen Wells"
Message 4: Re: Surface temp of outside gravel
growbeds
from dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.com
Message 5: Re: 12 volt sump/bilge pump safety
from "Attie Esterhuyse"
Message 6: 12 volts
from Ray Schneider
Message 7: Re: 12 volt sump/bilge pump safety
from fishmanbruce 'at' webtv.net (Bruce
Schreiber)
Message 8: Re: hydroponics in National Geographic
from Andrei.Calciu 'at' hn.va.nec.com
Message 9: Re: 12 volt sump/bilge pump safety
from "Arlos"
Message 10: Time to make it a business
from Mike Davey
Message 11: Re: Time to make it a business
from LC543119 'at' aol.com
Message 12: Re: Time to make it a business
from dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.com
Message 13: Re: Time to make it a business
from "gerry magnuson"
Message 14: Re: 12 volt sump/bilge pump safety
from "Chris Jeppesen"
Message 15: Re: Time to make it a business
from "Arlos"
Message 16: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Tue 07/24/01
from Bagelhole1 'at' aol.com
Message 17: Re: Time to make it a business
from kris book
Message 18: Re: 12 volt sump/bilge pump safety
from "Arlos"
Message 19: RE: Time to make it a business
from "Mark Allen Wells"
Message 20: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Tue 07/24/01
from "Arlos"
Message 21: Re: We must be more careful!
from kris book
Message 22: Re: We must be more careful!
from "Arlos"
Message 23: Re: We must be more careful!
from "Arlos"
Message 24: Re: Time to make it a business
from "gutierrez-lagatta"
Message 25: Re: Time to make it a business
from "gutierrez-lagatta"
Message 26: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Tue 07/24/01
from DAVEINBHAM 'at' aol.com
Message 27: Re: Surface temp of outside gravel
growbeds
from pablo obiaga
Message 28: Biogas
from "Cary Dizon"
Message 29: Re: Outside Aquaponics
from pablo obiaga
| Message 1
Subject: Re: hydroponics in National Geographic
From: kris book
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 23:35:53 -0600
Bruce, if you tell us all about this greenhouse you'll
be forgiven. Are
you sure of the spelling, nothing comes up when I
search.
.The space age green house
> was
> the idea of Isaac Asmonof. But Buck Minister fuller
was another
> thinker
> in that article let me look I might have that one in
my reference
> library Bruce
>
>
| Message 2
Subject: RE: On and Off Topic Ponderings (Not Too
Long)
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 00:45:28 -0500
Thanks Steve, Ted, Bruce
.much appreciated.
Good to see you back Ted.
| Message 3
Subject: Greenwater sludge>>methane
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 01:24:36 -0500
Hi everyone,
The digester thread got the wheels spinning.
One thing that
was bothering me in processing aquaponic/aquaculture
waste was it's
too thin
.not enough solids. Then I was reading the
page about
greenwater tank culture in the Virgin Islands and saw
a pic of the
greenwater sludge and the lightbulb went off.
http://www.aquaponics.com/articlegreenwater.htm
The clarifier on this page concentrates the
solids
resulting in sludge. This is similar to the primary
settling
process in our waste treatment plant with one big
difference.our sludge is then pumped to the digester. This type
of aquaculture
would seem to lend itself to bio-digestion. It takes
a lot
of sludge to produce a significant volume of methane.
But I
think a multi-fuel system using methane and shelled
corn
(which I can barter for or grow
.no cash outlay) is
feasible.
The system would use a compressor and tanks like LP
gas tanks
to store the methane and build up a supply in summer
months.
When methane supply runs low, corn is used to fuel the
system.
Even if I had to buy it, it's the cheapest fuel here
in
the cornbelt. I am going to look into this. If any
one is
interested in this, let me know and I'll keep you
posted off
list so I don't annoy anyone.
Raul, (I hope you are reading this)
.does
this sound
feasible to you? Would free fuel offset construction
costs?
I am not familiar with small farm type digesters but I
am hitting
the search engines and reading all I can this weekend.
take care.Mark
| Message 4
Subject: Re: Surface temp of outside gravel growbeds
From: dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.com
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 01:45:51 -0700
Carolyn Hoagland wrote:
>
> Wow,
> I'm thinking about putting a thin layer of wheat
straw mulch over the
> surface. Whaddaya think?
>
> Carolyn
--
Why not make it barley straw Carolyn, then you have an
added algaecide
included. You are right, the gravel becomes hot
. In
my growbeds (at
sea) in black tanks, it can run easily 24-degs
Celcius.
><{{{*> Mike B. <*}}}><
JAMAICA, West Indies
| Message 5
Subject: Re: 12 volt sump/bilge pump safety
From: "Attie Esterhuyse"
Date: 25 Jul 2001 11:41:50 +0200
Hi Carolyn
As long as it is direct current from a battery or pv
cell, nothing will
happen. Your battery will get flat and in the process
cause a bit of
electrolysis. Some small gas bubbles will form which
mainly consist of
Oxygen and Hydrogen. So if the gasses can escape to
the atmosphere, there
is nothin to worry about. Oxygen and Hydrogen is
highly explosive when
mixed together. Remember the Hindenburg.
Attie
Carolyn Hoagland wrote:
> Hi Gang,
> Can anyone tell me about the safety of being in the
water when using
> 12V submersible pumps? I can see that rare (or
perhaps not so rare)
> maintenance issues may require someone to get in a
tank. I am
> planning to run a pump directly off a solar panel 'at'
12v and 6 amps. I
> may also be running the pump off a 12v golf cart
type battery with
> ~300 amp hours capacity. Although I am familiar
with the mechanical
> side of how to hook all this up, I am not familiar
with the theory
> side of what can go wrong (shorts, ground faults,
etc
.)
>
> What is the worst case scenario, say an unsupervised
neighbor child
> decides to get in the water and chase the fish, and
then there is a
> malfunction, etc
, etc
. Is this going to be an
uncomfortable
> shock, or a life threatening situation??
>
> Thanks,
> Carolyn
| Message 6
Subject: 12 volts
From: Ray Schneider
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 07:14:16 -0400
My professional opinion is that 12 volts can't hurt
you, even in a water situation. The human body has
enough resistence that 12 v won't produce enough
current flow to be harmful -- that would apply to both
12 DC
and 12 AC -- now that isn't true for 120 volts and
there are some ways that high current at 12 V (i.e. a
hard
12 V) could be a little dangerous due to secondary
problems.
In the laboratory, out of water, you need something on
the order of 50 volts before you feel a shock. But I
remember being burned once by 3 volts -- I had charged
up a very high capacitance capacitor with 3 volts
(which was its working voltage) and it had some thin
#20 wire I think it was, soldered on the contacts and
I'd been discharging capacitors by just shorting them
and I did this with that capacitor without really
thinking about it -- the current density was so high
that I got a slight burn -- I went around school
showing
off my trophy (the burn) and saying "See you can get
burned by 3 volts."
That being said -- the biggest problems would be
shorting a high current supply with some kind of metal
and
generating heat or even molten metal. I would not
worry about 12 volts.
The comment that it isn't the voltage that hurts you,
but the current is true enough. It takes only a few
milliamperes through the heart to stop it -- but
voltage is what drives current. It is not uncommon
for
people to develop a charge and develop a high relative
voltage and spark each other -- "zap" -- the lack of
free electrons keeps that from producing enough
current to damage you -- so it depends on the
situation.
Hope that helps!
Cheers, Ray
--
Ray Schneider, PE, PhD
rschneid 'at' shentel.net
On the Search for the PERFECT tomato.
Come See Me at:
http://www.user.shentel.net/rschneid
| Message 7
Subject: Re: 12 volt sump/bilge pump safety
From: fishmanbruce 'at' webtv.net (Bruce Schreiber)
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 08:02:16 -0500 (CDT)
I agree with Attie on the fishing boat I've been in
water up to my arm
pits fixing submurged bilge pumps while it was
running quite safely its
not hazardous like 120v. or 240v. or I would be dead
many times over
Bruce
| Message 8
Subject: Re: hydroponics in National Geographic
From: Andrei.Calciu 'at' hn.va.nec.com
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 09:35:15 -0400
I think the proper spelling is Isac (or is it Isaac?)
Aasimov (yes, with
two "A") who is probably the most proeminent and
prolific Sci-Fi writer. I
think he passed away some years ago.
-_______________
Andrei D. Calciu (VA-4270)
NEC America, Inc.
14040 Park Center Dr.
Herndon, VA 20171-3227
Voice: 703-834-4273
Fax: 703-787-6613
This message and any attachment are confidential. If
you are not the
intended recipient, please telephone or email the
sender and delete the
message and any attachment from your system. If you
are not the intended
recipient you must not copy this message or attachment
or disclose the
contents to any other person.
kris book
To:
aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Sent by: cc:
aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
aquaponics-request 'at' t
Subject: Re: hydroponics in National
ownsqr.com
Geographic
07/25/01 01:35 AM
Please respond to
aquaponics
Bruce, if you tell us all about this greenhouse you'll
be forgiven. Are
you sure of the spelling, nothing comes up when I
search.
.The space age green house
> was
> the idea of Isaac Asmonof. But Buck Minister fuller
was another
> thinker
> in that article let me look I might have that one in
my reference
> library Bruce
>
>
| Message 9
Subject: Re: 12 volt sump/bilge pump safety
From: "Arlos"
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 07:39:26 -0700
Bruce,
Aside from you, Attie, myself and others may handle
an electrical device
regardless of line voltage. I would never never imply
its safety due to
liability. Though a 12v pump may be considered a toy
when compared to a 480
3 phase VAC pump. I've been zapped enough times
working on remote SCATA
systems which were low voltage DC PV systems with 12
VDC battery back up
built without disconnects. Mark, Mike and anyone else
having worked around
industrial equipment are oriented to the use of a
"Lockout/ Tagout"
training which would include not walking into a body
of water with a pump of
any rating. Carolyns or anyone else's use of a PV
array is a perfect conduit
for lightning in the wrong location. Caution on the
side of error in this
case may be a bit over the top but not knowing site
specifics I still stand
with an earlier statement to get a licensed electrical
contractor. In an age
where "Attorneys Roamed the Earth", we all walk on egg
shells. Carolyn's
attempt here to leave no stone unturned is as Martha
say's, "A good Thing".
Fish and plants< just to make note I hadn't gone to
far off topic.
Arlos
Side bar; in a small commercial harbor (Moss Landing)
on the Monterey Bay,
many old timers use 200 amp automotive alternators on
their boats and where
this is suspected, neighboring boats have their
through hulls and zinc
plates eaten away in a matter of months. ( Though I
suspect the large
Pacific Gas and electric plant setting on the edge of
the harbor ( now Duke
energy) may contribute a tad to the errant current
issue) The harbor has
always been hot. Granted electrolysis is only the by
product of either bad
grounding or
. ( ok tekkies, rapid release of the
hydrongen ion)? Corrosion
protection is still a developing science and to a
certain extent would apply
to the group especially if metal tanks, piping, weirs,
gates, handrails and
catwalks that come into contact with process water are
used. Bonding loops
and even anchor bolts can be eaten away. Electricity
and water do not make a
good marriage. No one was ever hurt by being too safe.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Schreiber
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Date: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 6:02 AM
Subject: Re: 12 volt sump/bilge pump safety
I agree with Attie on the fishing boat I've been in
water up to my arm
pits fixing submurged bilge pumps while it was
running quite safely its
not hazardous like 120v. or 240v. or I would be dead
many times over
Bruce
| Message 10
Subject: Time to make it a business
From: Mike Davey
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 09:47:37 -0500
After playing in aquaculture and aquaponics for about
2 years a
friend and I are about to move this into more of a
real business. We
often talk on the list about how to make the fish and
plants happy,
how about the government and the rest of it business
wise.
We are speaking with a lawyer and accountant over the
next few weeks.
We plan on looking at things like what type of
partnership/corporation we want, business plan,
accounting and tax
stuff, insurance, banking, loans.
Does anyone have any feelings on things that are often
missed in
setting a business like this up. Great ideas for
capital, things that
have gone wrong and should be watched for, you name
it.
I'm sure a number of others are in the same boat and
could benefit from ideas.
Mike
--
Pisani Graphics Inc.
Kimberly WI 54136
920-730-0014
| Message 11
Subject: Re: Time to make it a business
From: LC543119 'at' aol.com
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 11:05:03 EDT
--part1_e1.17f08cd3.28903a1f_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Mike, I have set up many people like you who are
venturing into aquaponics
and you are doing the right thing in doing your
homework first, there are
many pitfalls that can be avoided if you talk to the
right people to begin
with you can give me a call and we could have a chat
407-671 5075 and I can
put you in the right direction. Gordon Creaser I
am leaving for Belise
in the morning and I will be back on monday
--part1_e1.17f08cd3.28903a1f_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Mike, I have set up many people like
you who are venturing into aquaponics
and you are doing the right thing in doing your
homework first, there are
many pitfalls that can be avoided if you talk to
the right people to begin
with you can give me a call and we could have a
chat 407-671 5075 and I can
put you in the right direction. Gordon Creaser
I am leaving for Belise
in the morning and I will be back on
monday
--part1_e1.17f08cd3.28903a1f_boundary--
| Message 12
Subject: Re: Time to make it a business
From: dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.com
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 10:14:53 -0700
Do a search for a file called,
CHARACTERISTICS OF
FARMERS WHO HAVE FAILED
Danny A. Klinefelter*
or search the following sites
. You will find a lot
of files
exceptionally good for you.
http://aquanic.org/publicat/usda_rac/efs/ (master)
or
http://aquanic.org/publicat/usda_rac/efs/nrac.htm
http://aquanic.org/publicat/usda_rac/efs/ctsa.htm
http://aquanic.org/publicat/usda_rac/efs/ncrac.htm
I wish you all the best in your venture. Please get it
up, and tell us
about it.
Mike
JAMAICA
Mike Davey wrote:
>
> snip
>
> Does anyone have any feelings on things that are
often missed in
> setting a business like this up. Great ideas for
capital, things that
> have gone wrong and should be watched for, you name
it.
>
> I'm sure a number of others are in the same boat and
could benefit from ideas.
>
> Mike
> --
> Pisani Graphics Inc.
> Kimberly WI 54136
> 920-730-0014
--
><{{{*> Mike B. <*}}}><
JAMAICA, West Indies
| Message 13
Subject: Re: Time to make it a business
From: "gerry magnuson"
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 05:16:42 -1000
aloha, mike
.I am also going commercial with
aqua/bioponics in
virginia
.the key is marketing, one should 'work
backwards', growing is the
'easy' part, having a continualo market, and your
ability to continually
supply that market(s) is very important, and cash, no
credit, should be your
mantra
.transportation is also so very important, how
many markets and
distance and costs
.always use high costs and
expenses, and let the profit
take care of itself
.it is better to overproduce for
the market, there are
the flea markets, etc to sell the excess, which may be
your profit on
occasion
.as was mentioned about the sub-pump,
pulling the plug really
helps before working around it, even though it may be
ul safe, rubber boots
and gloves add assurance, voltage does not kill, as
does the ohms
involved
.another factor to explore is to make
positive ions with the
water, electrifying the water after leaving the fish
tank
coffeecowboy
>From: Mike Davey
>Reply-To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>Subject: Time to make it a business
>Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 09:47:37 -0500
>
>After playing in aquaculture and aquaponics for about
2 years a
>friend and I are about to move this into more of a
real business. We
>often talk on the list about how to make the fish and
plants happy,
>how about the government and the rest of it business
wise.
>
>We are speaking with a lawyer and accountant over the
next few weeks.
>We plan on looking at things like what type of
>partnership/corporation we want, business plan,
accounting and tax
>stuff, insurance, banking, loans.>
>Does anyone have any feelings on things that are
often missed in
>setting a business like this up. Great ideas for
capital, things that
>have gone wrong and should be watched for, you name
it.
>
>I'm sure a number of others are in the same boat and
could benefit from
>ideas.
>
>Mike
>--
>Pisani Graphics Inc.
>Kimberly WI 54136
>920-730-0014
| Message 14
Subject: Re: 12 volt sump/bilge pump safety
From: "Chris Jeppesen"
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 09:16:02 -0700
Arlos
Three cheers
there is really no such thing as safe. Only relatively
safe. Years back is was in an industrial setting an
the gal is was working with was complaining that the
co. hadn't pointed out every posable safty no no in
the room. I told her that It was imposible for them to
know every possible way to get hurt and suggested she
think or the possible consequences of her actions her
self especially when in new situations. I thought It
was a good exchange of ideas, but an hour later she
lost a finger in the next room.
My worst night mare is that the tops of my return
sumps are just at floor level and i worry about a
stray child. Liability aside that is not a happy
tought.
Chris Jeppesen
> "Arlos"
>Bruce,
> Aside from you, Attie, myself and others may handle
an electrical device
>regardless of line voltage. I would never never imply
its safety due to
>liability.
| Message 15
Subject: Re: Time to make it a business
From: "Arlos"
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 09:13:39 -0700
Mike,
I wish you the best with this endeavor. I've run my
primary business
(design, build and installing water processing
equipment) for 20 years now
and have seen steady growth in terms of annual
profits. I started a second
aquatics related business to consult on the mechanical
side two years ago
and have seen that grow steadily. I did the first
without a business plan
and very little capital and it was only due to working
7 day a week , saving
everything and sacrificing nearly everything else.
that it paid off in about
the 7th year. The second business took a year of
research and is paying off
quite well. We (wife, son and I ) are beginning a
third, building composite
products for the aquaculture, potable and wastewater
industry. Long term(5
year) I'm looking at relocation to Idaho as a farming
endeavor as the
prospects for aquaponics in California (under my
person circumstances) are
not competitive under current economic and market
conditions. I'm keeping an
eye on NAFTA for this reason. If I could offer any
advice it would be; not
not attempt to operate a commercial operation
undercapitalized, be flexible
in terms of your business plan. Strategic planning
fails when you attempt to
adhere to it's letter. Know your market. In my case I
don't use a middle
man, I sell direct to a client. Both of my parents
were from farming
families and my mother to this day never fails to tell
me how hard life was
at the same time how rewarding it was. The producers
are the ones subject to
the greatest potential failure as you incur on you
shoulders all of the
risks. Where your product is positioned will determine
where the profit
lies. From where I set, cut out as much as of the
middle as you can and
create your own network distribution as a
sub-business. ( I had an email
bounce to the group inquiring about the formation of
a co-op here to
support marketing if it were at all possible.) If and
when you begin to see
profit, do not be tempted to go out and buy the first
toy as a reward, put
that back into your business. Your reward is not
having to show up at the
office for anyone ever again except yourself.
Business structure is going to depend on laws in
your state. Protection by
incorporation is going to have to be very thoroughly
written out by an
attorney. If he/ she is not willing to come out to
your facility and slosh
around in muck with you to understand your needs than
find one who is. If
you have a friend you want to start a business with,
take him out and both
of you get as drunk as you can and get in the most
horrific fist fight
possible. If you can stand up, look each other in the
eye (one will do) and
shake hands, walk away laughing than you have a
partner worthy of going into
business with. If not
. the depth of a friendship is
only as strong as the
worse storm you're both willing to weather out.
Arlos
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Date: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 7:47 AM
Subject: Time to make it a business
>After playing in aquaculture and aquaponics for about
2 years a
>friend and I are about to move this into more of a
real business. We
>often talk on the list about how to make the fish and
plants happy,
>how about the government and the rest of it business
wise.
>
>We are speaking with a lawyer and accountant over the
next few weeks.
>We plan on looking at things like what type of
>partnership/corporation we want, business plan,
accounting and tax
>stuff, insurance, banking, loans.>
>Does anyone have any feelings on things that are
often missed in
>setting a business like this up. Great ideas for
capital, things that
>have gone wrong and should be watched for, you name
it.
>
>I'm sure a number of others are in the same boat and
could benefit from
ideas.
>
>Mike
>--
>Pisani Graphics Inc.
>Kimberly WI 54136
>920-730-0014
>
| Message 16
Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Tue 07/24/01
From: Bagelhole1 'at' aol.com
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 12:23:06 EDT
Hi everyone,
I used to be on this list, back in 1999, I think,
somehow I got off, but
Kris Book reminded me of it, so I'm glad to be back
on. I've been working on
a "vertical aquaponics", which involves 2 liter
plastic pop bottles inverted
and cut, used for seedling holders, suspended from
near the top of the
greenhouse in vertical columns, one above another over
the raceway below.
I've had problems with the vegetables growing well.
Now, I am convinced its
because I don't have enough fish producing enough
nutrients, my ph is about
7.2, I run water thru every 20 minutes or so for 30
seconds. I have sphagnum
and clay balls in there to help keep the roots wet,
but my leaves turn yellow
and the plants don't thrive.
So, I want to put more fish in there, I don't have
very many now, but I need
to aerate the water better to handle more fish. My
configuration is
rectangular, 22'x7'x22'x7' with a 3' walkway in the
middle and its all about
2' deep. You have to step over the water to the
walkway, since the whole
thing connects so the fish can swim around the
rectangle.
Can anyone suggest the best way to go about aerating
the water. I had been
trying to keep the system as simple as possible, but
now I am forced to
complicate things, because I know I need to have more
air in there.
Looking forward to any help you can offer.
Thanks,
Tom Osher
San Francisco
www.bagelhole.org
| Message 17
Subject: Re: Time to make it a business
From: kris book
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 10:58:52 -0600
Mike,
Doug Peckenpaugh, the editor at "The Growing Edge"
magazine is sending me
all printed material that he can find concerning
aquaponics/hydroponics.
I asked him if he could help me find some production
estimates on
commercial aquaponics systems that I can take to the
bank. When I receive
it I will be happy to share, after I clear it with
Doug. But, I'm pretty
sure he would rather I get the info spread around, so
he can concentrate
on his great magazine. He seems to be very interested
in seeing this
aquaponics stuff enter the mainstream of food
production. From our
conversations, I don't think that Doug is very money
motivated.I am sure
that he knows that the more people that get involved,
the more mags he
will sell. If for some reason, he doesn't want his
material spread
around, I will summarize and share that way.
kris
| Message 18
Subject: Re: 12 volt sump/bilge pump safety
From: "Arlos"
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 10:06:19 -0700
Chris,
There are two things that will make a man fold in
pain. One is landing on a
very delicate body part and the second is the very
thought of ever having a
child hurt.
Family farms are always a potential source of great
bodily injury due to
equipment but things are improving.
Arlos
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Jeppesen
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Date: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 9:16 AM
Subject: Re: 12 volt sump/bilge pump safety
Arlos
Three cheers
there is really no such thing as safe. Only relatively
safe. Years back is
was in an industrial setting an the gal is was working
with was complaining
that the co. hadn't pointed out every posable safty no
no in the room. I
told her that It was imposible for them to know every
possible way to get
hurt and suggested she think or the possible
consequences of her actions her
self especially when in new situations. I thought It
was a good exchange of
ideas, but an hour later she lost a finger in the next
room.
My worst night mare is that the tops of my return
sumps are just at floor
level and i worry about a stray child. Liability aside
that is not a happy
tought.
Chris Jeppesen
> "Arlos"
>Bruce,
> Aside from you, Attie, myself and others may handle
an electrical device
>regardless of line voltage. I would never never imply
its safety due to
>liability.
| Message 19
Subject: RE: Time to make it a business
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 12:26:52 -0500
Mike,
I am glad you brought this up. I agree
.many
here
are in business or aspire to start one. We can talk
about
fish and plants all day but if we can't sell them it
will
remain a hobby.
This is why in one post I went into a little
detail
about Joel Salatin's book "You Can Farm". He is a
marketing
wizard and makes more off his farm than any
conventional
farm I have seen and on a lot less land. The
principles he uses
are applicable to any form of agriculture. Among
them.
1. Avoid debt as much as possible. His animals do the
cultivation
and fertilization. He avoids what he calls "things
that rust".
This is why I am interested in learning to recycle
my fish/plant
waste into heat, food for my bluegill, and
fertilizer for other
crops
This is inline with how he uses natural
systems to his
advantage.
2. Build relationships with your customers. Get them
out to see
what you are doing, create interest, etc.
3. Educate, educate, educate
he lectures, he
writes, he has school
kids out to the farm
.he constantly promotes
alternative farming.
4. Free labor using college kids as interns, home
school kids (his
favorites
.they haven't been conditioned by the
system).
5. Use creative marketing methods (hope this doesn't
strike a nerve
with some but he is a very lateral thinker
.LOL).
6. Biggie here
.start small within your means and
grow upon that
foundation. He spoke of operations starting in
backyards
.he encourages urban agriculture. Don't stretch
yourself too
thin starting out.
Anyhow, the business aspect is a good one to
bring up.
Good luck to you!
Mark
| Message 20
Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Tue 07/24/01
From: "Arlos"
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 10:28:02 -0700
Tom,
Are you in the city? As an engineer (water
processing) there is no fast
hard rule that applies to stocking densities verses DO
needs. As you know
water temp., food conversion, species, water exchange
all play a vital
roll. I'm of the opinion in smaller systems a
regenerative blower used with
an aeration tower is the most cost effective method to
increased DO.
Supplemental flat plate air diffusers will increase
supplemental air as
needed. To add air passively the use of an eductor
you can gain over 15
scfm on the return line from your pump. there was a
thread about a month ago
over pump efficiency. Every application is specific.
Bruce made an
interesting note (about setting up a cascading
system. You might want to
email him and Develope this further.
I live just down the road from you (Aptos)and more
than happy to run up
to SF to give you any info I can. My wife is screaming
for another ride up
this week end to dine at CHA CHA CHA'S in the Haight.
Arlos
-----Original Message-----
From: Bagelhole1 'at' aol.com
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Date: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 9:23 AM
Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Tue 07/24/01
>Hi everyone,
> I used to be on this list, back in 1999, I think,
somehow I got off,
but
>Kris Book reminded me of it, so I'm glad to be back
on. I've been working
on
>a "vertical aquaponics", which involves 2 liter
plastic pop bottles
inverted
>and cut, used for seedling holders, suspended from
near the top of the
>greenhouse in vertical columns, one above another
over the raceway below.
>I've had problems with the vegetables growing well.
Now, I am convinced its
>because I don't have enough fish producing enough
nutrients, my ph is about
>7.2, I run water thru every 20 minutes or so for 30
seconds. I have
sphagnum
>and clay balls in there to help keep the roots wet,
but my leaves turn
yellow
>and the plants don't thrive.
>
>So, I want to put more fish in there, I don't have
very many now, but I
need
>to aerate the water better to handle more fish. My
configuration is
>rectangular, 22'x7'x22'x7' with a 3' walkway in the
middle and its all
about
>2' deep. You have to step over the water to the
walkway, since the whole
>thing connects so the fish can swim around the
rectangle.
>
>Can anyone suggest the best way to go about aerating
the water. I had been
>trying to keep the system as simple as possible, but
now I am forced to
>complicate things, because I know I need to have more
air in there.
>
>Looking forward to any help you can offer.
>
>Thanks,
>Tom Osher
>San Francisco
>www.bagelhole.org
>
| Message 21
Subject: Re: We must be more careful!
From: kris book
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 11:43:20 -0600
Arlos,
How true, I showed up at the organic vegetable farm
where I am finishing
a 3 bay machine shed, and there was the owner standing
there with a cast
to her knee. She felt that it was such a stupid
accident, that she was
unwilling to talk about it.I'm not sure how you say it
in farmerese but,
in carpentry the saying is,"measure twice, cut once
unless you have a
board stretcher handy". In other words, think about
things from two
different views before the action begins.
kris
| Message 22
Subject: Re: We must be more careful!
From: "Arlos"
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 12:14:01 -0700
Kris,
Years ago IBM used, "THINK" in large bold blue
type. That pretty much
said it all considering the times. They whittled it
down to the simplest
element. That would have made E.B. White smile from
the beyond.
Arlos
-----Original Message-----
From: kris book
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Cc: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Date: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 10:43 AM
Subject: Re: We must be more careful!
>Arlos,
>
>How true, I showed up at the organic vegetable farm
where I am finishing
>a 3 bay machine shed, and there was the owner
standing there with a cast
>to her knee. She felt that it was such a stupid
accident, that she was
>unwilling to talk about it.I'm not sure how you say
it in farmerese but,
>in carpentry the saying is,"measure twice, cut once
unless you have a
>board stretcher handy". In other words, think about
things from two
>different views before the action begins.
>
>kris
>
| Message 23
Subject: Re: We must be more careful!
From: "Arlos"
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 12:57:09 -0700
another note,
When working in HAZMAT and firefighting we had a
saying, "Take 5 and stay
alive." If you were to come across someone face down
in a ditch, a pool of
water or down in a confined area your first impulse
would be to go pull them
out or pretend you didn't see it at all
Statistically that doesn't work.
Quickly surveying a site for dangerous and or
lifethreatning conditions can
save a lot more than heartburn. The nature of an
Aquaponics operation is a
mixed environment, changing work planes, wet and
electrified work areas,
heat and cold and that universal one; Slips, trips and
falls. Catwalks,
landings and ladders without railings, old wood
ladders with that funny
spot only you know about but the 260 lb electrician
doesn't. Teen age help
with pants 20 sizes too large and hanging around their
knees would make me
real nervous in the work place. (some how that doesn't
quite sound right?)
Even hair not tied back can make for a horizontal
trip to the doctor. Here
in California you can no longer require an employee to
cut their hair or
beard (women not excluded here either) this includes
piercings, spiked hair,
jewelry,etc
. Frankly I would not want to have to
explain to an insurance
adjuster that my employee had fallen off the ladder
because they were trying
to get their hair spikes out of a grow lamp shade
while eyebrow ring was
caught in a tomato vine and landed on the edge of my 2
by 4 raft bed,
breaking the edge off of my tank in sandles, flooding
my green house. But
thank god that 260 lb electrician put a GFIC on that
receptacle for the
extension cord now lying in an inch of water.
(modified from a true event
where I had a sub contractor turn around on a 10 foot
ladder, leaned over
out of plane to check grade and he did a maneuver that
would have made a
Chinese dive coach proud. He was knocked cold,
transported to a Kaiser
facility
. fast forward
. came to concousness later
in the day, left the
hospital with his wife without the bothersome little
detail of checking out
of the hospital first (not to mention getting a
release from a Dr.)and went
to an AMWAY weekend in Reno
. this is the stuff that
will grind your teeth
down in a heart beat. I suppose the point of the
endless diatribe would be,
Tis better to be walk on than carry on.
Arlos
-----Original Message-----
From: kris book
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Cc: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Date: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 10:43 AM
Subject: Re: We must be more careful!
>Arlos,
>
>How true, I showed up at the organic vegetable farm
where I am finishing
>a 3 bay machine shed, and there was the owner
standing there with a cast
>to her knee. She felt that it was such a stupid
accident, that she was
>unwilling to talk about it.I'm not sure how you say
it in farmerese but,
>in carpentry the saying is,"measure twice, cut once
unless you have a
>board stretcher handy". In other words, think about
things from two
>different views before the action begins.
>
>kris
>
| Message 24
Subject: Re: Time to make it a business
From: "gutierrez-lagatta"
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 15:39:31 -0500
Mike,
Before you quit your day jobs
I like to say "ANY FOOL CAN GROW STUFF", the key to
making money is
MARKETING. Do you have a VERY good handle on:
1. What specific products are you are going to grow
2. Who is going to buy it and at what price
3. Who is your competition
4. What is your yield/sq ft.
5. What are your costs
6. Have you built in any contingencies to your
numbers?
In the past 3 years in and around this list I've seen
serious mistakes
made in all of these categories. If you would like to
run your
assumptions and answers to these questions by the
list, I'm sure we
can give you some valuable input. Tell us how big an
operation you
have in mind.
Adriana
> Does anyone have any feelings on things that are
often missed in
> setting a business like this up. Great ideas for
capital, things
that
> have gone wrong and should be watched for, you name
it.
| Message 25
Subject: Re: Time to make it a business
From: "gutierrez-lagatta"
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 15:46:45 -0500
Also be sure to look into product liability
insurance.> Business structure is going to depend on laws in
your state.
Protection by
> incorporation is going to have to be very thoroughly
written out by
an
> attorney. If he/ she is not willing to come out to
your facility and
slosh
> around in muck with you to understand your needs
than find one who
is.
| Message 26
Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Tue 07/24/01
From: DAVEINBHAM 'at' aol.com
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 20:11:46 EDT
In a message dated 7/25/01 12:08:53 AM Central
Daylight Time,
aquaponics-digest-request 'at' townsqr.com writes:
<< I apologize for my long and sometimes
conversational
posts. It's how I write. I started writing that way
when I lost my best friend to suicide (which was tied
to things at the wastewater plant
.so I blew the
whistle),
lost my mom to heart failure and lost my job that I
loved
for standing up for people who could not stand up for
themselves
all in 12 months. I hurt so bad I
thought
I would surely die. I had to get it out so I started
writing
and I have never stopped. Sometimes longer posts add
depth and meaning
.sometimes just words. Either
way,
I will try to be short and to the point unless
something
requires more information. This list and aquaponics
have
reconnected me with something I thought was
lost
.thank you.
I'm new at this list stuff
.again, my humble
apologies.
Mark
************************************************************
Have you ever considered psychoanalysis ? It can be
quite helpfull in dealing
with stressfull situations. This list is concerned
with fish and plants and
is not likely to help much with your or my mental
health.
Almost half the posts here today were dealing with
apologies given or asked.
So, if this post offends anyone I, too, hereby apolige
now.
May I suggest we all bury the hactchet ( not in each
others head) and get
back to fish and plants.
Kindest regards,
Dave
| Message 27
Subject: Re: Surface temp of outside gravel growbeds
From: pablo obiaga
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 21:39:12 -0300
Carolyn:
I use bambu,the ornamental type that
every year i have to control in my
garden. The central cane I use it to "cane" tomatoes.
But the left over is
the good stuff.
I cut the secondary stems with their leefs and just
insert them among
tomatoes or pepperoni seedlings as if they were
plants.
They will not root (the canes). Instead, they
progresivly dry out an their
lefs fall. This process takes a while. Wen only the
sticks remain you
remoove them as well as the fallen leafs and you
growing plants have had a
gradual adaptation to their enviromental light and
heat conditions.
This is the "natural", or lets call it the poor way. A
plastic shade cloth
would help if you feel its too much for your plants.
If you cant get bambu
most very small tree braches with small leafs would
emulate this effect.
PABLO
At 22:56 24/07/01 -0500, you wrote:
>Wow,
>
>I almost burned my hand that gravel is so hot! I'm
sure that after
>all the plants fill out, they will shade the surface,
but what keeps
>these young plants from cooking? So far they don't
look fried.
>
>I'm thinking about putting a thin layer of wheat
straw mulch over the
>surface. Whaddaya think?
>
>Carolyn
>
>
| Message 28
Subject: Biogas
From: "Cary Dizon"
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 19:18:29 -0700
I've read that a trap filled with iron fillings can
eliminate
hydrogen-sulfides in biogas. These systems are used
in India.
CPD
| Message 29
Subject: Re: Outside Aquaponics
From: pablo obiaga
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 00:02:45 -0300
Bruce:
I get your point. If i replan my system I can provide
a 4-5mts (12-15ft
aprox) hi fall.
In that case I would have the tanks below. My hydro
garden is on the roof
(light reasons)
it would be nice to avoid the expence of a secon pump.
Pablo.
At 18:08 24/07/01 -0500, you wrote:
>Pablo if you start with a sereis of tanks each one
higher than the one
>on lets say the right side but lower than the one on
the left side you
>will get a step stair effect so it takes 1 pump to
water all of them
>even if you have 100 fish ponds the exaust from one
feeds the next one
>and so on down the line. Now for it to work right
you must have a good
>fall of water splashing and mixing in to each tank
below or a fiffle of
>water in between tanks for proper areation and the
fiffles can be NFT
>chanels . Also rember to add a gravel or perlite
bed/filter/planter
>every so often to strip off the fish turds .Such a
system is a copy of a
>natural stream go take a close look at one on a hill
side to see what I
>mean.
> Bruce
>
>
|
