Aquaponics Digest - Sat 08/11/01
Message 1: Re: Raise a fish, Go to jail, It's the law
from kris book
Message 2: Re: Raise a fish, Go to jail, It's the law
from "gerry magnuson"
Message 3: Growing medium
from "Leslie Ter Morshuizen"
Message 4: RE: Raise a fish, Go to jail, It's the law
from "Mark Allen Wells"
Message 5: Re: Information management
from "Dorothy Mann"
Message 6: Re: Growing medium
from Bertmcl
Message 7: Re: bacteria
from (Bruce Schreiber)
Message 8: Re: air and bacteria
from (Bruce Schreiber)
Message 9: Re: Need help with Feed!
from (Bruce Schreiber)
Message 10: Re: Raise a fish, Go to jail, It's the law
from "Brent Bingham"
Message 11: RE: air and bacteria
from "Mark Allen Wells"
Message 12: Re: hybrid bluegill tank size
from (Bruce Schreiber)
Message 13: Re: Raise a fish, Go to jail, It's the law
from "Brent Bingham"
Message 14: Re: hybrid bluegill tank size
from "STEVE SPRING"
Message 15: Re: hybrid bluegill tank size
from "STEVE SPRING"
Message 16: Re: hybrid bluegill tank size
from "STEVE SPRING"
Message 17: Re: hybrid bluegill tank size
from "STEVE SPRING"
Message 18: Re: hybrid bluegill tank size
from "STEVE SPRING"
Message 19: RE: air and bacteria
from (Bruce Schreiber)
Message 20: Re: hybrid bluegill tank size
from "STEVE SPRING"
Message 21: Re: Need help with Feed!
from "Thomas Short"
Message 22: Re: air and bacteria
from "Thomas Short"
Message 23: Resource - links page
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 24: Compost heating
from dreadlox
Message 25: fish supply
from "Robert Rogers"
Message 26: Re: Need help with Feed!
from (Bruce Schreiber)
Message 27: Sweet Potato Recipe I Want to Share
from "TGTX"
Message 28: RE: Sweet Potato Recipe I Want to Share
from "Mark Allen Wells"
Message 29: Re: Growing medium
from "gutierrez-lagatta"
Message 30: RE: Resource - links page
from "Chris Jeppesen"
Message 31: RE: Pacu
from "Chris Jeppesen"
Message 32: RE: Pacu
from Andrei Calciu
Message 33: RE: Pacu
from "Chris Jeppesen"
Message 34: Steve Spring
from Peggy & Emmett
Message 35: RE: Pacu
from (Bruce Schreiber)
Message 36: RE: Pacu
from "Chris Jeppesen"
. .
| Message 1
Subject: Re: Raise a fish, Go to jail, It's the law
From: kris book
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 23:17:13 -0600
Gerry,
I know that I've read to never use railroad ties to make the borders on
raised beds in the garden, because of the creosote used to treat the
ties. Whether the fumes are toxic or if contact with the growing media is
harmful, I don't know which.
kris
>
> mornin' mark, as you seem to be up this early, what would be your
> take on
> using asphalt in a greenhouse? advantages, pitfalls, verses concrete
> or just
> gravel?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Mark Allen Wells"
> >Reply-To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
> >
> >Subject: RE: Raise a fish, Go to jail, It's the law
> >Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 23:09:39 -0500
> >
> > > Reading David Yarrow's reprint of the fish farmer in Iowa is a
> >wake up for anyone to do their homework first.
> >
> >Arlos,
> >
> >Between that and Brent's post about the insurance company not
> paying
> >up on the ceiling fire
.you are right! There is so much red
> tape
> >in California, I don't know how anything gets done
but the rest
> of
> >us need to be aware of our state laws too. One of my links is to
> the
> >Indiana Code. For the hobbyist, a lot can be gotten away
> with
but
> >for someone trying to start a business, some homework now can be
> the
> >difference between success and failure.
> >
> >I hope your trip is going well,
> >Mark
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
. .
| Message 2
Subject: Re: Raise a fish, Go to jail, It's the law
From: "gerry magnuson"
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 19:38:13 -1000
mornin' kris, I am in lumber heaven in va, prices are very resonable, there
are sealers for the asphalt, doubt if any acids will attcak it in the
greenhouse, also, I have a quarry down the road for the gravel mixes
I was
looking at the absorption standpoint, it's being black
I may try one
greenhouse with hotwater lines underneath
.all my framework for the
greenhouses will be fibreglass, even the planting trays, as the factories
around here have lots of seconds from making ladders, up to 24' lengths
.as
much/little I have read, S&S makes more common sense
.cowboy
>From: kris book
>Reply-To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>CC: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>Subject: Re: Raise a fish, Go to jail, It's the law
>Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 23:17:13 -0600
>
>Gerry,
>I know that I've read to never use railroad ties to make the borders on
>raised beds in the garden, because of the creosote used to treat the
>ties. Whether the fumes are toxic or if contact with the growing media is
>harmful, I don't know which.
>
>kris
>
>
>
> >
> > mornin' mark, as you seem to be up this early, what would be your
> > take on
> > using asphalt in a greenhouse? advantages, pitfalls, verses concrete
> > or just
> > gravel?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "Mark Allen Wells"
> > >Reply-To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
> > >
> > >Subject: RE: Raise a fish, Go to jail, It's the law
> > >Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 23:09:39 -0500
> > >
> > > > Reading David Yarrow's reprint of the fish farmer in Iowa is a
> > >wake up for anyone to do their homework first.
> > >
> > >Arlos,
> > >
> > >Between that and Brent's post about the insurance company not
> > paying
> > >up on the ceiling fire
.you are right! There is so much red
> > tape
> > >in California, I don't know how anything gets done
but the rest
> > of
> > >us need to be aware of our state laws too. One of my links is to
> > the
> > >Indiana Code. For the hobbyist, a lot can be gotten away
> > with
but
> > >for someone trying to start a business, some homework now can be
> > the
> > >difference between success and failure.
> > >
> > >I hope your trip is going well,
> > >Mark
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
. .
| Message 3
Subject: Growing medium
From: "Leslie Ter Morshuizen"
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 11:53:12 +0200
Hi all
Is there any reason why 3mm polystyrene balls should not be used as a grow
medium?
Thanks,
Leslie
. .
| Message 4
Subject: RE: Raise a fish, Go to jail, It's the law
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 06:21:50 -0500
mornin' mark, as you seem to be up this early, what would be your take on
using asphalt in a greenhouse? advantages, pitfalls, verses concrete or just
gravel?
----
Hi Gerry,
Ya, I work second shift and usually check the list when I get home. I wish
I could help you, but other than coating some foundations with it, I don't
have much experience with asphault. My goal is a hydronic system in the
gravel bed fed by a boiler (leaning towards waste oil or corn). I am a
little
ways from starting on this project and the input this list provides sure
gives a guy lots of options and things to think about while planning it.
A system like this may not be practical for some for just a greenhouse
(depending on the size of the greenhouse) but hopefully mine is also going
to heat my garage/shop which will be right next to the greenhouse. Some
of the passive designs are interesting like the link kris posted about
the greenhouse heated with compost but being able to control rootzone
and tank temps is my goal.
have a good weekend,
mark
. .
| Message 5
Subject: Re: Information management
From: "Dorothy Mann"
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 06:53:42 -0500
Thanks-
Becky Hines
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
To: "Aquaponics"
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2001 9:36 AM
Subject: Information management
. .
| Message 6
Subject: Re: Growing medium
From: Bertmcl
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 09:37:10 EDT
Leslie,
Are you talking about Ebb & Flow grow beds ? if so how will you keep the
material from floating ?
For more info write me offline.
Bertmcl.
. .
| Message 7
Subject: Re: bacteria
From: (Bruce Schreiber)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 09:16:35 -0500 (CDT)
Andrei In answer to your question about bacteria survival completely
submerged no sweat they are the bacteria normally found underwater on
tank walls
Bruce
. .
| Message 8
Subject: Re: air and bacteria
From: (Bruce Schreiber)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 10:06:07 -0500 (CDT)
Ray in my front room are 2 big aquariums a 130 and a 90 gal. that I keep
my breeder Tilapia in with a showy strain of bullhead catfish
,Pacu,Oscar,different mussels and ornamental tropicals this is a self
contained aquaponic system with NFT gutters running all the time .At a
glance I spot any problems because I know the system better than the
back of my hand.This is the way every one should start with Aquaponics
up close in your face and painless when you become ok with the fish
then expand to a green house but not until then or your losses can be
sorta heavy by the time you notice a problem
Bruce
. .
| Message 9
Subject: Re: Need help with Feed!
From: (Bruce Schreiber)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 10:20:05 -0500 (CDT)
Thomas Short if you go to the Arid lands greenhouses and lab. of the
UofA in Tucson on the south side of Tucson over by the airport you will
get a lot of help and if you call back the feed stores and ask for
catfish or trout food they will order it for about the price of $13.per
50lb. bag and keep it in stock for you.
Bruce
. .
| Message 10
Subject: Re: Raise a fish, Go to jail, It's the law
From: "Brent Bingham"
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 08:31:37 -0700
Our local asphalt plant sells a product called popcorn seal. It is made from
pea gravel with no filler sand so it is porous. Water runs through it, so no
slipping and falling, BUT sweeping is hard. We use in in high traffic areas.
Brent
----- Original Message -----
From: "gerry magnuson"
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2001 9:42 PM
Subject: RE: Raise a fish, Go to jail, It's the law
>
> mornin' mark, as you seem to be up this early, what would be your take on
> using asphalt in a greenhouse? advantages, pitfalls, verses concrete or
just
> gravel?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Mark Allen Wells"
> >Reply-To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
> >
> >Subject: RE: Raise a fish, Go to jail, It's the law
> >Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 23:09:39 -0500
> >
> > > Reading David Yarrow's reprint of the fish farmer in Iowa is a
> >wake up for anyone to do their homework first.
> >
> >Arlos,
> >
> >Between that and Brent's post about the insurance company not paying
> >up on the ceiling fire
.you are right! There is so much red tape
> >in California, I don't know how anything gets done
but the rest of
> >us need to be aware of our state laws too. One of my links is to the
> >Indiana Code. For the hobbyist, a lot can be gotten away with
but
> >for someone trying to start a business, some homework now can be the
> >difference between success and failure.
> >
> >I hope your trip is going well,
> >Mark
>
>
>
>
>
>
. .
| Message 11
Subject: RE: air and bacteria
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 10:29:41 -0500
This is the way every one should start with Aquaponics
up close in your face and painless when you become ok with the fish
then expand to a green house but not until then or your losses can be
sorta heavy by the time you notice a problem
----
Bruce,
This is why I am setting up my 90 gal tank in my living room
observation (plus I had the tanks). Plus, I want to create
aquarium type systems and try setting one up in my buddy's pet store
to see what happens.
Mark
. .
| Message 12
Subject: Re: hybrid bluegill tank size
From: (Bruce Schreiber)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 10:51:46 -0500 (CDT)
Bennett the size of tank or container is of no consequence in raising
fish if you have all of the conditions right. But in smaller volume
tanks the filtration is very critical or the health of the fish suffers
and at best the fish fail to grow and stay stunted, but only until you
improve conditions they then continue to grow .Always go with the
largest container that you can afford its simply less hands on and
trouble prone,say a cheapy above ground pool on sale or second hand, or
make your own out of plywood sheets ,cable and a pool liner and put it
up in the basement.I once had a 12ft.diameter x 4ft deep doughboy pool
in mine and it worked like a charm
Bruce
. .
| Message 13
Subject: Re: Raise a fish, Go to jail, It's the law
From: "Brent Bingham"
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 09:17:37 -0700
I believe Creosote is usually found only in asphalt sealers like chevron jet
seal. The mix used to pave roads get heated too over 300 F. Creosote would
boil or burn out if in there to start.
Brent
----- Original Message -----
From: "kris book"
Cc:
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2001 10:17 PM
Subject: Re: Raise a fish, Go to jail, It's the law
> Gerry,
> I know that I've read to never use railroad ties to make the borders on
> raised beds in the garden, because of the creosote used to treat the
> ties. Whether the fumes are toxic or if contact with the growing media is
> harmful, I don't know which.
>
> kris
>
>
>
> >
> > mornin' mark, as you seem to be up this early, what would be your
> > take on
> > using asphalt in a greenhouse? advantages, pitfalls, verses concrete
> > or just
> > gravel?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "Mark Allen Wells"
> > >Reply-To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
> > >
> > >Subject: RE: Raise a fish, Go to jail, It's the law
> > >Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 23:09:39 -0500
> > >
> > > > Reading David Yarrow's reprint of the fish farmer in Iowa is a
> > >wake up for anyone to do their homework first.
> > >
> > >Arlos,
> > >
> > >Between that and Brent's post about the insurance company not
> > paying
> > >up on the ceiling fire
.you are right! There is so much red
> > tape
> > >in California, I don't know how anything gets done
but the rest
> > of
> > >us need to be aware of our state laws too. One of my links is to
> > the
> > >Indiana Code. For the hobbyist, a lot can be gotten away
> > with
but
> > >for someone trying to start a business, some homework now can be
> > the
> > >difference between success and failure.
> > >
> > >I hope your trip is going well,
> > >Mark
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
. .
| Message 14
Subject: Re: hybrid bluegill tank size
From: "STEVE SPRING"
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 11:27:32 -0500
Hi Bennett,
No one is ignoring you. I'm sure that most don't know the answer to your
question. Most people on this list raise Tilapia. I think you would be
"pee'ing in the wind" to try to raise hybrid bluegills in a 100 gal tank.
Yes, you can raise 1 or 2 or 50 as long as they are 1" fingerlings. But what
happens when they become 3/4# apiece? Remember that a fish is a fish is a
fish and they require "x" amount of room.
To give you some kind of abstract idea, I have almost a million gallon pond
and KEN says to only put 1,000 to 1,500 in there and 1,500 is "stretching
the envelope". So, you can kind of extrapolate 1,000,000 gal vs. your 100
gal and see what you get. I worked a double last night and have now been up
for almost 36 hours and the "gray matter" doesn't work very well right now
or I would do it for you.
I'm going to have 1,500 in my pond and 1,000 in my recirculating system in a
month or so. I will be able to speak from experience in a few months, but
right now, I'm kind of using the WAG formula.
Trust me, no participating member of this list will ever leave a question
unanswered if he/she has an answer or even a speculation. I did notice that
Bruce posted something, but I have not had a chance to take a look at his
post yet. Maybe he will explain it better than I do. He usually does.
Take care my friend
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "bennett"
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 11:43 PM
Subject: hybrid bluegill tank size
What do you all think the smallest practical size to raise hybrid bluegill
in might be? Would they live okay in, say, 100 gallon tanks? HHow many per
tank?
Come on, I've read several times in the last month that people should ask
questions. Somehow, I don't see many answers coming through though.
D.
. .
| Message 15
Subject: Re: hybrid bluegill tank size
From: "STEVE SPRING"
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 11:35:23 -0500
Hey Mike,
You must think that this southern boy is the dumbest to come down the pike
for awhile.
Remember when you asked me to send pictures to you and you would put it on
our mutual (aquaponic) website? Well, I asked you for your address. We were
talking about scanners. I'm so "not used" to having a scanner that it didn't
dawn on me for a few days when I was driving to work that, "Hey Stupid", he
meant scan them to him
.DUHHHHHH!
When I get some pictures, I will try to send them your way.
Sorry
As my "mama' told me one time, "You may be Southern, but you ain't
no redneck!"
Later
(egg on my face)
.Steve
----- Original Message -----
From:
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2001 2:11 AM
Subject: Re: hybrid bluegill tank size
bennett wrote:
>
> Come on, I've read several times in the last month that people should ask
> questions. Somehow, I don't see many answers coming through though.
> D.
--
Come on Donna!
Be fair. If folks dont have experience with bluegills they cant give
advice. I for one dont have a clue about bluegills. I recently wrote to
a few fisheries trying to get answers about a fish I didnt know about
and in their busy schedules, someone responded.
Another option is writing an institution or a known breeder. For someone
to want folks to buy their breed they will be more than happy to tell
you a bit about their experiences. Maybe the groups experience with
varied species is not as wide as you could think
hence the silence.
Most folks here grow tilapia.
Sincerely. ><{{{*> Mike Barnett <*}}}><
JAMAICA, West Indies
. .
| Message 16
Subject: Re: hybrid bluegill tank size
From: "STEVE SPRING"
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 11:52:30 -0500
Hi Bennett,
As the old saying goes, "Be careful what you wish for, you might get it!"
Holy Molly, now you are getting bombarded by Mike in Jamaica, Bruce in
Racine and Steve in Milwaukee.
We all try different things. As I told you in my earlier post, I'm getting
away from Tilapia and will be doing Bluegills. As Mike and I told you, there
aren't a lot of people on this list who do Bluegills. (I would like to take
the credit
.no applause necessary
.as being the one who introduced
hybrid bluegills to the list.) I thought about doing Pacu, but then again,
you have to introduce people to a new fish
just like you had to do with
the Tilapia
This thought, I give credit to my wife for.
Also as Mark Wells in Indiana told me the other night, "I can sell Bluegills
all day long if I have a supply." The same, regrettably, does not hold true
for Tilapia. With Tilapia, you have to create your own market.
Just my thoughts
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "bennett"
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2001 12:54 AM
Subject: Re: hybrid bluegill tank size
>Dont give up.
>
Thanks. I guess deep down I knew that, but just needed to hear it from
someone else maybe.:-)
I'm kind of stressed now trying to do a write-up for a grant proposal and
wanting lots of answers to come real easy. Must remember the easy ones
don't last
:-)
D.
. .
| Message 17
Subject: Re: hybrid bluegill tank size
From: "STEVE SPRING"
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 11:54:26 -0500
Nice post Mark
ss
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2001 1:14 AM
Subject: RE: hybrid bluegill tank size
D.
If your read my post to Teresa about striped bass you will notice
a link to Purdue and extension agents all over the place. I have written
Ohio State and Songhai Centre in Africa and they both replied back.
Give it a try sometime.
As for bluegill, I wish I could give you a solid answer but I will try.
Lots of things are involved in stocking densities
.can the fish handle
high stocking densities? I don't know about bluegill yet but I am starting
with them. The rate I have seen for tilapia is 1/2 pound at harvest to
one gallon of water. Now how large is a mature hybrid bluegill? I may be
off here
.Gordon, if you read this and I am wrong let me know. They
can get over 2 pounds but that takes a while. I would think they would
need to be 3/4lb to 1lb to get a decent filet. This would mean 38-50
adult fish in a 100 gal tank at that density. Yes, you can grow them
in a 100 gal tank. I have two dozen fingerlings in a 55 gal aquarium
that will be transfered to my 90 gal aquarium. I am just learning about
these fish and about aquaponics so I started with what I had
.lots of
fish tanks. I am starting with less than the recommended stocking
densities for tilapia until I have experience with these fish and with
the plant/fish ratios. If you want someone experienced with them, you
may have trouble finding info on them in recirculating systems because they
haven't been used much in this area
.YET (but they show promise). The folks
at Purdue, Mississippi State, etc may be able to answer more questions.
Try not to get down or discouraged when your questions go unanswered.
You aren't being ignored. Sometimes it may seem that way but it isn't.
I spend lots of time with the search engines, reading
. and writing
contacts
I find. Sometimes those who could answer may not be around for a day or two.
My questions don't always get answered right away
.(but then I talk too
much
LOL).
take care,
mark
--
>Come on Donna!
>Be fair. If folks dont have experience with bluegills they cant give
>advice.
Well, I've asked 4 questions is 3 weeks - all about different topics. I got
only one reply. Now, granted, I'm not sure I get ALL my e-mails, but
.one reply out of 4 questions
???
D.
. .
| Message 18
Subject: Re: hybrid bluegill tank size
From: "STEVE SPRING"
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 12:09:29 -0500
Hi Donna,
You out there? I've been addressing my responses to Bennett. I hope you are
one and the same
"more or less".
Here is Ken's website: http://www.kens-fishfarm.com/georgia_giant.asp
You won't get a lot of info from the website. You will have to call their
phone #. It isn't free. (Ken didn't get to being a poor old country boy to
being a millionaire by being stupid.) Just give them a call and ask to talk
to Ken or Stephanie and tell them that Steve from Milwaukee told you to
call. They WILL take care of all of your questions.
By the way, if you want to order some Bluegills in the very near future,
maybe we can split an order
.cheaper that way.
Later
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Leslie Ter Morshuizen"
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2001 4:01 AM
Subject: Re: hybrid bluegill tank size
Hi Donna
It appears that there is little documented information on raising bluegill
in recirculating systems. Why not start by contacting Ken's Fish Farm and
finding out what their experience is concerning the topic, they may well
have advice for you. Otherwise stick to the basics of designing the system
such that the oxygen and biofiltration are adequate for tilapia (a tough
species), and stock the bluegill fingerlings at 10% of the density you would
use for tilapia of the same size. As fish grow their biomass increases and
they need to be thinned out. Rely on this to tell you when the bluegill are
too heavily stocked for your system. Monitor the growth rate on a weekly
basis by weighing the fish and charting the results. When you notice that
the growth rate is slowing down you should halve the number of fish in the
system. This may seem simplistic - but it works well.
You can apply the same method of monitoring growth rate from a very small
size to tell you what size fish can be reared in what size tank, given the
biofiltration and aeration. Bear in mind that water quality is the real
factor that determines growth rate, not tank size (assuming feed, etc. to be
constant).
The fun part is identifying the limiting factor that caused the growth to
taper off. With social fish species, such as tilapia, it is usually water
quality (nitrogen accumulation or DO shortage) but with a predatory or
territorial species you often find that social interactions play a role as
well. Interestingly enough, high densities are often the solution to
negative social interactions.
All the best,
Leslie
> What do you all think the smallest practical size to raise hybrid bluegill
> in might be? Would they live okay in, say, 100 gallon tanks? HHow many
per
> tank?
. .
| Message 19
Subject: RE: air and bacteria
From: (Bruce Schreiber)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 12:18:42 -0500 (CDT)
Mark It's just common sense and if we develop a tank top model that any
one can use out of the box from a pet store that looks good we will be
automatically teaching the world Aquaponics one house at a time and
cutting world hunger in the process
Bruce
. .
| Message 20
Subject: Re: hybrid bluegill tank size
From: "STEVE SPRING"
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 12:31:01 -0500
Oh Jim,
That wasn't even close. I can be much more "socially insensitive" than
that. You were even bordering on being kind.
Donna/ Bennett was just getting frustrated about not getting answers to
his/her questions. I think that they know by now that they weren't being
ignored.
I would like to place one thing in here to all of the Donna's and Bennett's
out there. I have been through literal HELL trying to get this business
going. I have been a whining "newbie" trying to figure out the whole thing
to the point where I am now. I have many thousands of dollars tied up in
this venture. I am very insensitive to anyone who knocks this list in any
way shape or form. Paula formed this forum for all of us to voice our
opinions, experiences, etc.
I can understand the frustration of "newbies" when they don't get their
questions answered
.but, just hang in there. I HAVE YET TO ASK A QUESTION
THAT HASN'T BEEN ANSWERED ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.
If you get upset and cancel, it will be your loss. Paula's list will
persevere.
Just my thoughts
."Socially Insensitive" Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim"
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2001 12:50 PM
Subject: Re: hybrid bluegill tank size
I guess I'm in danger of joining the 'Socially insensitive one' before
this email is over, but I'll answer the bluegill question first
Short answer: Yes, you can raise Hybrid bluegill in plastic 55 gallon
drums
But the smaller your system, the easier it is to get out of
balance. Same goes for stocking density. A few fish off one way or the
other isn't too bad on a 1000 gal tank, but it'll feel like you can get
in trouble 20 times as fast raising fish in a barrel so you'll need to
keep the density down around 1/4lb/gal and plan of culling out a lot of
fish as you go along, or plan on adding additional barrels at
progressively shorter intervals as the fish grow.
I start fingerlings in barrels and switch them in and out of bigger
systems to balance nutrient flow as fish are harvested from the big
tanks.
I think there's a good thread detailing everything from problems, to
equipment sources in the archive
All the usual factors are there
Now for the 'Socially insensitive part', or tough love, however you want
to take it
1) I haven't seen any questions where someone hasn't tried to help. If
you want instant answers, to your spec, I'm sure several consultants
will fix you right up.
2) Same goes for your plan for others to fill in all the blanks for your
grant write-up.
3) If you didn't see the replies posted, and you're not sure about the
reliability of your email service, try not to whine about not getting
your answers filed in triplicate by your due date
This is a coffee
shop in cyberland where a bunch of knowledgeable, helpful, hardworking
folks get together to talk shop, and help the rookies when they can.
Sometimes the rookies help us too. Sometimes (like now) some of us are
over our heads in work and can't spend much time on-line.
Jim
PS: I only raise the bream up to big enough that I can transfer them to
net cages in our catfish ponds.
PPS: Coded and posted Mike's link page with the archives at
http://www.i55mall.com/aquaponics/
PPPS: I really do plan to get the archives up to date
Owe Paula too
many hours to not hold up my end of the deal after all her hard work
putting up with all of us
:)
bennett wrote:
>
> >Dont give up.
> >
> Thanks. I guess deep down I knew that, but just needed to hear it from
> someone else maybe.:-)
> I'm kind of stressed now trying to do a write-up for a grant proposal and
> wanting lots of answers to come real easy. Must remember the easy ones
> don't last
:-)
> D.
. .
| Message 21
Subject: Re: Need help with Feed!
From: "Thomas Short"
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 10:30:46 -0700
=_NextPart_001_0000_01C12250.AED4E340
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I called every feed store in the Tucson phone book and asked them if they=
had any kind of fish food and they all said no! =20
=20
----- Original Message -----
From:
Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2001 8:21 AM
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Subject: Re: Need help with Feed!
=20
Thomas Short if you go to the Arid lands greenhouses and lab. of the
UofA in Tucson on the south side of Tucson over by the airport you will
get a lot of help and if you call back the feed stores and ask for
catfish or trout food they will order it for about the price of $13.per
50lb. bag and keep it in stock for you.
BruceGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : =
=_NextPart_001_0000_01C12250.AED4E340
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I called every=
feed store in the Tucson phone book and asked them if they had any kind =
of fish food and they all said no! ----- Original Message ----- From: <=
/DIV> Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2=
001 8:21 AM To: aquaponics 'at' t=
ownsqr.com Subject: Re: Need=
help with Feed! Thomas Short if you go to the Ari=
d lands greenhouses and lab. of the UofA in Tucson on the south side o=
f Tucson over by the airport you will get a lot of help and if you cal=
l back the feed stores and ask for catfish or trout food they will ord=
er it for about the price of $13.per 50lb. bag and keep it in stock fo=
r you. &nb=
sp; Bruce
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download :
=_NextPart_001_0000_01C12250.AED4E340--
. .
| Message 22
Subject: Re: air and bacteria
From: "Thomas Short"
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 11:13:11 -0700
=_NextPart_001_0001_01C12256.9BA813E0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
good idea!
I built a 170 gal tank in my living room wall for breeders. If any one el=
se wants to build one look at this address: http://www.garf.org/140.gallo=
n.html
I maid mine 6'6" X 2' x 2'. you can change it to fit your space. If you g=
o 24" deep you will need 1/2" glass ! for any thing up to 17" deep 3/8" g=
lass is ok.
=20
Thomas L. Short
----- Original Message -----
From:
Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2001 8:06 AM
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Subject: Re: air and bacteria
=20
Ray in my front room are 2 big aquariums a 130 and a 90 gal. that I keep
my breeder Tilapia in with a showy strain of bullhead catfish
,Pacu,Oscar,different mussels and ornamental tropicals this is a self
contained aquaponic system with NFT gutters running all the time .At a
glance I spot any problems because I know the system better than the
back of my hand.This is the way every one should start with Aquaponics
up close in your face and painless when you become ok with the fish
then expand to a green house but not until then or your losses can be
sorta heavy by the time you notice a problem
BruceGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download=
:
=_NextPart_001_0001_01C12256.9BA813E0
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
good idea! I maid mine 6'6" X 2' x 2'. you can change it to f=
it your space. If you go 24" deep you will need 1/2" glass ! for any thin=
g up to 17" deep 3/8" glass is ok. Thomas L.=
Short ----- Original Message ----- From: fi=
shmanbruce 'at' webtv.net Sent: S=
aturday, August 11, 2001 8:06 AM To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com =
Subject: Re: air and bacteria Ray in my front =
room are 2 big aquariums a 130 and a 90 gal. that I keep my breeder Ti=
lapia in with a showy strain of bullhead catfish ,Pacu,Oscar,different=
mussels and ornamental tropicals this is a self contained aquaponic s=
ystem with NFT gutters running all the time .At a glance I spot any pr=
oblems because I know the system better than the back of my hand.This =
is the way every one should start with Aquaponics up close =
in your face and painless when you become ok with the fish then expan=
d to a green house but not until then or your losses can be sorta heav=
y by the time you notice a problem =
; Bruce=
Get more from the =
Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : ht=
tp://explorer.msn.com
=_NextPart_001_0001_01C12256.9BA813E0--
. .
| Message 23
Subject: Resource - links page
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 13:32:18 -0500
At 12:50 PM 08/10/2001 -0500, Jim wrote:
>
>PPS: Coded and posted Mike's link page with the archives at
>http://www.i55mall.com/aquaponics/
For those of you who might have missed Jim's note -- here's the full URL for
Mike's links page:
http://www.i55mall.com/aquaponics/links.shtml
Good work!! and thanks to both of you, as well as those who contributed to
the links.
Paula
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
. .
| Message 24
Subject: Compost heating
From: dreadlox
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 14:21:12 -0700
Mark and Kris and others seeking help with compost heating look at this.
If didnt "click" with me till now
. I had another bookmark of a site
with pics, but I will have to look closer for that one
http://www.rdrop.com/users/krishna/
http://www.rdrop.com/users/krishna/composti.htm
--
><{{{*> Mike Barnett <*}}}><
JAMAICA, West Indies
. .
| Message 25
Subject: fish supply
From: "Robert Rogers"
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 15:53:14 -0400
I have not done any business with this company, just stumbled on to it.
www.jonesfish.com/index.html
Bob
. .
| Message 26
Subject: Re: Need help with Feed!
From: (Bruce Schreiber)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 16:18:28 -0500 (CDT)
Thomas that might be true but there is not a feed store in the US that
will not order it for you from their suppliers Purena makes and sells
dog,cat ,horse,poultry, catfish,trout etc. so if its on the list that
the store gets the store can order it on the same truck that delivers
the other food at no extra charge.Steve Spring had that problem a while
back. Barring that you can use many livestock foods you mentioned
hamster or rabbit it will work just do not over feed or you will get a
huge bad smelling Alga soupy looking pukey baby shit green sorta rancid
runny Avocado dip sort of thing to enjoy but maybe that's not so bad
because Tilapia Nicotica like it with some aeration of
coarse.
Bruce
. .
| Message 27
Subject: Sweet Potato Recipe I Want to Share
From: "TGTX"
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 16:22:40 -0500
Folks,
I am back from the offshore fishing trip and it was good. Got our limit on
King, Shark, and Red Snapper. Biceps ache a bit, but don't tell anybody.
Hemmingway wouldn't be proud of me if I admitted a bit of soreness in the
aftermath of some good fishing fun. Water was a bit choppy going out
.(I
loved every minute of that marine rodeo
.gotta keep the knees in synch with
the salt water beat, and the sea legs adopt a mind of their own), but upon
arrival at "the rocks", 35 miles out, the ultramarine deep blue water was
soul-soothing. I almost got lost in the muse, gazing into the deep, before
the fish starting striking hard. I love this planet
.nice and airy, lots
of light
.plenty of storage space and utilities
.convenient location to
nearby schools and shops
.I think I'll stay
if the Land Lord lets
me.
O.K
thinking about cooking some of this fish tonight, and the thought
came to me about side dishes. Y'all know that I often rant and rave about
the top ten foods
.Sweet potato is at the top of the top ten vegetables,
and I am always on the look out for ways to grow them
(some nice photos
of a NASA project growing hyrdo sweet potato :
http://advlifesupport.jsc.nasa.gov/SweetPotato.html
.thank you again,
Sunpeer)
and for ways to cook them that will appeal to me more than the standard
baked or roasted sweet tater
'cause it's not just all about fish to plant
ratios, mineralization and recirculation rates, and the half life of
biofilms on the gravel
.right?
Here is a recipe for sweet potato salad, which I think is very good, and
which makes that sweet spud a lot more palatable for my taste. Try it with
some fish and a salad of mixed greens, some herbal tea or adult beverages,
homemade bread, brown rice or Quinoa and Leek side dishes, and you shall
have quite a meal, I promise you. Did you know sweet potatoes contain fewer
carbohydrates than regular spuds? This is hard to believe, but that is what
I have read. Maybe the glycemic index is higher, kinda like carrots? But I
am now over my dietary head, so just pipe in if you feel like informing me
for my betterment.
Sweet Potato Salad
Serves 4
1 pound sweet potatoes (not canned, for crying out loud
just go buy the
tubers)
2 green onions or scallions, sliced (yes, you gotta include most of the
greens)
1 stalk celery, diced
(maybe 2 stalks if you like a lotta crunch, like I
do.1/2 cup lowfat mayonnaise (I did use the full fat kind at first, 'cause I
had it in the house)
1 tablespoon lemon juice (or lime juice is good, too)
1/4 cup chopped Texas Pecans (Option
.toast them beforehand
.yeehaw
.)
Parsley, for garnish (maybe chives?
use your imagination)
Peel the sweet spuds and cut into 1/2 to 3/4 inch cubes. Place in a pot
with water to cover and simmer until tender when pierced with a fork, about
30 to 40 minutes or so (don't overcook them to the point that they are too
soft). Drain well in a collander and allow to cool.
In a large bowl, combine sweet spuds with onion and celery. Don't mash the
spuds. Let them stay as semi-firm chunks in the mix. Mix the mayo and the
lemon juice in a suitable sized cup by stirring and homogenizing them
together. Then blend this into the spuds, etc. Mix in the pecans. I add
salt and pepper to taste and allow it to chill in the fridge for a cool
salad. You can toss parsely or whatever on and about the salad to make you
happy, if you want.
I have tried variations on this, including adding chopped baby carrots, and
substituting the mayo with White Mountain Bulgarian Yogurt mixed with olive
oil and lime juice (which didn't quite do it for me). I wonder if some snow
peas, or just English peas might work, or perhaps Fava beans, black eyed
peas, or even black beans? I am still experimenting but the original recipe
above is pretty gosh darn good. The pecans really make it fly. Sure, you
can try walnuts. What about flax seed? Nah
.too weird
right? How
about sunflower seeds? Would welcome any suggestions
. or
phlogestons
Enjoy.
Tedzo
.& my newest associate, Wilson, the Volleyball.
. .
| Message 28
Subject: RE: Sweet Potato Recipe I Want to Share
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 16:37:53 -0500
>'cause it's not just all about fish to plant
>ratios, mineralization and recirculation rates, and the half life of
>biofilms on the gravel
.right?
-----
.you got that right
thanks for the recipe
.I love sweet taters.
----
>Tedzo
>
.& my newest associate, Wilson, the Volleyball.
----
LOL
.I loved that movie
.I was at wal-mart the other night in the
sporting goods section. I saw the volleyballs and couldn't help laughing.
The store clerk thought I was nuts
I almost bought one. I could hear
Wilson saying "take me home
.I hate this frigging store"
.LOL>
mark
. .
| Message 29
Subject: Re: Growing medium
From: "gutierrez-lagatta"
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 17:31:28 -0500
And it will have incredible fly-waya tendencies when clearing beds,
etc. I would stay away from it.
> Are you talking about Ebb & Flow grow beds ? if so how will you keep
the
> material from floating ?
. .
| Message 30
Subject: RE: Resource - links page
From: "Chris Jeppesen"
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 15:54:23 -0700
Here Here
Three Chreers and Thank You very much to Mike, Jim and all.
Chris Jeppesen
Mike's link page with the archives at
. .
| Message 31
Subject: RE: Pacu
From: "Chris Jeppesen"
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 16:07:14 -0700
I've been given two 16 inch plus Black Pacu. The hitch is that they are 1200 miles away.
Any suggestions on shipping these beuties.
Thanks
Chris
. .
| Message 32
Subject: RE: Pacu
From: Andrei Calciu
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 19:43:59 -0400
Chris,
I suggest they ship them quick frozen in dry ice
;-)
-_______________
Andrei D. Calciu (VA-4270)
NEC America, Inc.
14040 Park Center Dr.
Herndon, VA 20171-3227
Voice: 703-834-4273
Fax: 703-787-6613
This message and any attachment are confidential. If you are not the
intended recipient, please telephone or email the sender and delete the
message and any attachment from your system. If you are not the intended
recipient you must not copy this message or attachment or disclose the
contents to any other person.
"Chris Jeppesen"
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Sent by: cc:
aquaponics-request 'at' t Subject: RE: Pacu
ownsqr.com
08/11/01 07:07 PM
Please respond to
aquaponics
I've been given two 16 inch plus Black Pacu. The hitch is that they are
1200 miles away.
Any suggestions on shipping these beuties.
Thanks
Chris
. .
| Message 33
Subject: RE: Pacu
From: "Chris Jeppesen"
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 18:05:22 -0700
roflmaso
chris
> RE: Pacu aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com Andrei CalciuDate: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 19:43:59
-0400
>Reply-To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>
>
>Chris,
>
>I suggest they ship them quick frozen in dry ice
>
>;-)
>
>-_______________
>Andrei D. Calciu (VA-4270)
>NEC America, Inc.
>14040 Park Center Dr.
>Herndon, VA 20171-3227
>
>Voice: 703-834-4273
>Fax: 703-787-6613
>
>This message and any attachment are confidential. If you are not the
>intended recipient, please telephone or email the sender and delete the
>message and any attachment from your system. If you are not the intended
>recipient you must not copy this message or attachment or disclose the
>contents to any other person.
>
>
>
>
> "Chris Jeppesen"
> To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
> Sent by: cc:
> aquaponics-request 'at' t Subject: RE: Pacu
> ownsqr.com
>
>
> 08/11/01 07:07 PM
> Please respond to
> aquaponics
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I've been given two 16 inch plus Black Pacu. The hitch is that they are
>1200 miles away.
>
>Any suggestions on shipping these beuties.
>Thanks
>Chris
>
>
>
>
>
>
. .
| Message 34
Subject: Steve Spring
From: Peggy & Emmett
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 21:37:47 -0400
Hey Steve,
I sent a note to your address, it wasn't bounced but I guess you didn't get
it.
I'll be driving to LaCross on Wednesday, leaving Thursday afternoon to
Milwaukee. Are you along the route? I'd like to see your greenhouse.
If you are send me your phone number to my address by 6 am Sunday EDT.
.Emmett
. .
| Message 35
Subject: RE: Pacu
From: (Bruce Schreiber)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 21:26:14 -0500 (CDT)
Chris while they are free they will not come cheap because of their size
they will have to be shipped in large containers with lots of expensive
water weight and packed in oxygen .Also they are excitable so they will
have to be drugged to be kept calm expect shipping costs to be about
$65. each are you sure that you want them that bad.
Instead why not put them on the Aquapnic list and let some one that
lives closer get them for their system .Big Pacu are a very common give
away fish in the US if you put an add in your local news paper and on
pet shop walls any where in the US advertizing say A fish shelter or
Pacu rescue that takes biggies you will soon have all that you can
handle.Also they can be had at fish auctions for almost free since not
many Aquarians can handle their large sizes.I have a lot of experience
at this so I hope your listening
Bruce
. .
| Message 36
Subject: RE: Pacu
From: "Chris Jeppesen"
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 20:00:57 -0700
Ok Bruce
I'll try and cool my jets on this. I'm thinking to maybe breed my own. The link I found these
on If anyone is interested is http://www.aquahobby.com/board.html
The owners page is http://www.geocities.com/specialspork/index1.html
Thanks
Chris
Bruce Schreiber
RE: Pacu
>Chris while they are free they will not come cheap because of their size
> Instead why not put them on the Aquapnic list and let some one that
>lives closer get them
What list is this? chris
|
