Aquaponics Digest - Wed 08/22/01
Message 1: Re: Tech help please
from "STEVE SPRING"
Message 2: Re: Aquaponics for beliefs sake??
from "Leslie Ter Morshuizen"
Message 3: Re: Tech help please
from "Leslie Ter Morshuizen"
Message 4: Greenhouse heating
from "STEVE SPRING"
Message 5: Re: Real military aid
from pantryman 'at' empireone.net
Message 6: Re: Greenhouse heating
from "Leslie Ter Morshuizen"
Message 7: Re: Greenhouse heating
from "gerry magnuson"
Message 8: List courtesy
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 9: Re: Greenhouse heating
from "Jay Myers"
Message 10: Re: List courtesy
from "gerry magnuson"
Message 11: Re: Greenhouse heating
from "gerry magnuson"
Message 12: Re: Greenhouse heating
from "Jay Myers"
Message 13: Re: Greenhouse heating
from "gerry magnuson"
Message 14: Re: Greenhouse heating
from "Jay Myers"
Message 15: Re: Greenhouse heating
from Mick
Message 16: Re: Furnace
from pantryman 'at' empireone.net
Message 17: Re: Furnace
from pantryman 'at' empireone.net
Message 18: Re: Greenhouse heating
from "Brent Bingham"
Message 19: Re: Real military aid
from Arlus Farnsworth
Message 20: Re: Tech help please
from Arlus Farnsworth
Message 21: Re: Greenhouse heating
from Arlus Farnsworth
Message 22: Re: List courtesy
from Arlus Farnsworth
Message 23: Heirloom tomatoes
from "gutierrez-lagatta"
Message 24: Re: List courtesy
from Andrei Calciu
Message 25: Re: Heirloom tomatoes
from Arlus Farnsworth
Message 26: Re: Aquaponics for beliefs sake??
from dreadlox
Message 27: Re: Aquaponics for beliefs sake??
from "Brent Bingham"
Message 28: Zebra Mussels
from "Frank Stancato"
Message 29: Re: Aquaponics for beliefs sake??
from "Barry Thomas"
Message 30: Bioneers?
from "gutierrez-lagatta"
Message 31: Re: Zebra Mussels
from "Arlos"
Message 32: Home brew filters. from dreadlox
Message 33: Re: Aquaponics for beliefs sake??
from dreadlox
Message 34: Re: Greenhouse heating
from "Leslie Ter Morshuizen"
Message 35: Re: Aquaponics for beliefs sake??
from dreadlox
. .
| Message 1
Subject: Re: Tech help please
From: "STEVE SPRING"
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 00:15:04 -0500
You can become very attached to your fish. My original breeders were black
nilotica and I called them my "chihuahuas". They would just wiggle, vibrate
and whatever whenever they saw me. They would come to the surface and
literally take the food from my fingers. They wouldn't do this with my wife.
I was very sad when they died
.and "ole meanie"
.now, he was a different
story
.meanest damned fish I ever saw, but he knew me. I actually buried
him when he died and said a few words over him. I know that sounds stupid.
But, he was one "heluva man".
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mick"
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 10:59 AM
Subject: Re: Tech help please
STEVE SPRING wrote:
> But, if your fish go off feed, make a major "dump" until they are happy
> again. The fish will be your barometer.
>
> Steve
> ________________________________________________
Steve,
I know what you mean about the fish letting me know when something is up.
You
are so right. I also agree that with my small system I could easily
overtest.
My tilapia are very readable. If things are right, they'll climb over one
another to get at the feed.
Amusing side note:
My fish know the difference between me and Corey. If I'm feeding them, they
are happy and jumping and racing each other to the food. If Corey is
feeding
them, they'll eat but they come at it from under the surface of the water
and
make a quick "grab and run" at the food.
Corey is the Bad Guy. He does all the net work and moves the fish from
nursery to grow-out tank. He catches and weighs them. I'm the one who
likes
to give them treats like bloodworms and bits of boiled shrimp. I'm the
Treat
Lady. These fish see very well and they recognize people!
Mean ole Corey
Mick
. .
| Message 2
Subject: Re: Aquaponics for beliefs sake??
From: "Leslie Ter Morshuizen"
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 07:26:45 +0200
Hi Mike
With regard to your comment below, I fail to see how you derive security
from aquaponics during a time of real hardship, when our aquaponic systems
are still reliant on electricity? Does anyone have a system that is totally
stand alone in terms of fuel inputs, and in this I include fish feed,
electricity, etc?
Leslie
> regard. Let us say it this way. Brent raised a SERIOUS issue. Some of
> us on this list are into aquaponics because like me we realise from a
> spiritual perspective we have really messed up, and aquaponics MAY offer
> us at a later date our only hope of survival
. at least for a while.
. .
| Message 3
Subject: Re: Tech help please
From: "Leslie Ter Morshuizen"
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 07:41:48 +0200
Hi Steve
Sounds sexual to me.
Leslie
> You can become very attached to your fish. My original breeders were black
> nilotica and I called them my "chihuahuas". They would just wiggle,
vibrate
> and whatever whenever they saw me. They wouldn't do this with my wife.
. .
| Message 4
Subject: Greenhouse heating
From: "STEVE SPRING"
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 01:04:58 -0500
Hi gang,
Well, winter is approaching and the time for my experiment is close at hand.
Those of you who have followed my rantings know that I want to grow
"summertime tomatos in the winter in Wisconsin".
I tried this aquaponically with those $.50/ea hybrid dutch seeds and that
didn't work out well. I figured that if I could get somewhere between $150 -
$300/lb for the tomatos, I would just about break even. So much for that
idea.
So, I bought a greenhouse
.a 20' x 12' hoop house. I'm growing my tomatos
in the Earth Boxes in the greenhouse and they are doing very, very well. I
know Adrianna is not too keen on these. She prefers the hydroponic method.
(I just CANNOT incorporate another system that I have to babysit.) But,
this is working well for me. I have "berjillions" of tomatos when others in
my area have a very scant crop. (We have had a very bizarre growing season.)
(Adrianna, quick question: Some of my tomatos, maybe 15% have a very hard
spot on them
.usually at the bottom. Most are perfect, but some have this
"thing". Any suggestions??)
Now to the meat of this post: Greenhouse Heating. My "farm" (where the fish
are) is 80 - 85 F even in the dead of winter because I heat the water with
an in-tank bayonet style heater. (The "farm" is incredibly insulated. We
redid the entire building.) I plan on running a heat duct from the farm to
the greenhouse (apprx. 15') with a forced air fan. This will supply hot air
to the greenhouse. I plan on, follow the bouncing ball, turning night into
day in the greenhouse. I will be running a 1,000 watt grow light and 1
(maybe 2) 450 watt grow lights during the night which is the coldest time
and setting them on timers to kick off shortly after daybreak. I checked
with Wisconsin Electric yesterday and they confirmed my worst fears about
the cost of electric heat during the time when all of the supplemental heat
will be off. They told me that if I used electric wall heaters that it would
cost about $.50/hr per 3 linear feet. Therefore, 18' would cost me $3.00 per
hour x 8 hrs = $24/day or $720/mo. I don't really believe these figures
because I ran a radiator type heater last year and it didn't cost near this
much, but it is still very, very expensive. Anyone got any ideas. Is there
any such thing as a propane heater that can be set on a timer? Again
.any
ideas??
Thanks
.Steve
. .
| Message 5
Subject: Re: Real military aid
From: pantryman 'at' empireone.net
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 00:34:06 -0500
Hey Brent.Ya got me convinced
.I give up
.all is hopeless
Where is the line forming for the grape kool-aid????
> Our push was to find a economical use for the grain on the bottom of our
> grain storage. The seed germ was dead in most of what we tested but the corn
> oil and solids steel had food value. We went to a German company and
> purchased a double screw pellet mill to make fish and livestock feed. We
> paid for a very expensive lesson.
> for what it is worth " there is economy of scale " that a farm size
> operation cannot reach. A family farm can get free slave labor to play with
> cutting edge technology. Making "home brew" fuel is not that hard. Making is
> economical is near imposable. The answer may lie in integration. Archer
> Daniels Midland uses every possible ounce of byproduct. A home based system
> has a poor chance at best with $ 10.00 per hour labor and current fuel
> costs. To make alcohol takes some skill ,some art and some luck. Just a few
> bacteria in the brew and you get vinegar, very expensive vinegar.
>
> It seems there is enough expertise on the list to get some
> very interesting projects going. We will share what we have done and it
> seems others will as well.
>
> It is ok to have ones head in the clouds as long as you keep at least on
> foot on the ground. Turbines are great
> BUT they also need oil, very special oil! I try not to have the attitude of
> "been there done that" BUT if you look very close at the total cycle of a
> turbine you see much of its energy is used to compress its fuel and air
> supply. Next you must use the heat. All the units we tested do not pencil
> out if you do not recapture the heat for cogeneration and domestic heating
> of some sort.
> We need to partner with a power plant to be next to there waste unless this
> new unit has broke new ground.
> Lets get going!.
> Brent
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Arlus Farnsworth"
>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 2:17 PM
> Subject: Re: Real military aid
>
>
> >
> >
> > Brent Bingham wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > vehicles to run on the 170 proof fuel made from spoiled grain. By the
> time
> > > we cooked the mash and paid for the enzymes to brake the starch down to
> > > simple sugars our costs were 50% more the farm fuel.
> >
> > What about the malting process of germination and sparging? You would have
> to
> > use viable grain of course, but the residue could be used for feed. Or you
> could
> > spread it on crackers. Not sure if yeast counts as a vegetable serving. It
> is
> > half fungus and half bacteria. Is there a limit to what is produced in
> aquaponic
> > systems categorically? I can imagine many spin off applications for
> > sub-components, not only for the purpose of food production.
> >
> > I was curious to understand the logistics of oil producing seeds?
> >
> >
> >
>
>
. .
| Message 6
Subject: Re: Greenhouse heating
From: "Leslie Ter Morshuizen"
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 11:17:36 +0200
Hi Steve
Many of the greenhouse tunnels I have seen use wood or coal boilers to heat
the water, and that costs significantly <$720 ($720 x 8.3 = R5976 = a fair
income in African terms) per month. Water from the sump is pumped through a
coil or drum over the furnace before going back into the main feed that
supplies the fish tanks. A single fire is sufficient to maintain 150kl at
26°C when the outside temperatures drop to >0°C, but I fear your thermal
differential will be greater than this. Our tunnels are not well insulated
though and you say yours is.
Regards,
Leslie
----- Original Message -----
From: STEVE SPRING
Sent: Wednesday, 22 August, 2001 8:04 AM
Subject: Greenhouse heating
> Hi gang,
>
> Well, winter is approaching and the time for my experiment is close at
hand.
> Those of you who have followed my rantings know that I want to grow
> "summertime tomatos in the winter in Wisconsin".
>
> I tried this aquaponically with those $.50/ea hybrid dutch seeds and that
> didn't work out well. I figured that if I could get somewhere between
$150 -
> $300/lb for the tomatos, I would just about break even. So much for that
> idea.
>
> So, I bought a greenhouse
.a 20' x 12' hoop house. I'm growing my tomatos
> in the Earth Boxes in the greenhouse and they are doing very, very well. I
> know Adrianna is not too keen on these. She prefers the hydroponic method.
> (I just CANNOT incorporate another system that I have to babysit.) But,
> this is working well for me. I have "berjillions" of tomatos when others
in
> my area have a very scant crop. (We have had a very bizarre growing
season.)
> (Adrianna, quick question: Some of my tomatos, maybe 15% have a very hard
> spot on them
.usually at the bottom. Most are perfect, but some have this
> "thing". Any suggestions??)
>
> Now to the meat of this post: Greenhouse Heating. My "farm" (where the
fish
> are) is 80 - 85 F even in the dead of winter because I heat the water with
> an in-tank bayonet style heater. (The "farm" is incredibly insulated. We
> redid the entire building.) I plan on running a heat duct from the farm to
> the greenhouse (apprx. 15') with a forced air fan. This will supply hot
air
> to the greenhouse. I plan on, follow the bouncing ball, turning night into
> day in the greenhouse. I will be running a 1,000 watt grow light and 1
> (maybe 2) 450 watt grow lights during the night which is the coldest time
> and setting them on timers to kick off shortly after daybreak. I checked
> with Wisconsin Electric yesterday and they confirmed my worst fears about
> the cost of electric heat during the time when all of the supplemental
heat
> will be off. They told me that if I used electric wall heaters that it
would
> cost about $.50/hr per 3 linear feet. Therefore, 18' would cost me $3.00
per
> hour x 8 hrs = $24/day or $720/mo. I don't really believe these figures
> because I ran a radiator type heater last year and it didn't cost near
this
> much, but it is still very, very expensive. Anyone got any ideas. Is there
> any such thing as a propane heater that can be set on a timer? Again
.any
> ideas??
>
> Thanks
.Steve
>
>
. .
| Message 7
Subject: Re: Greenhouse heating
From: "gerry magnuson"
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 02:21:20 -1000
howdy leslie, with your inflation heading to 100%, everything is costly
.I
am researching a propane boiler system, 200,000BTU, putting the lines under
gravel, this is large enough for 3 greenhouses 30'x100', cost is around
4,000US for the boiler
.cost of propane right now is .84US per gallon
>From: "Leslie Ter Morshuizen"
>Reply-To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>
>Subject: Re: Greenhouse heating
>Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 11:17:36 +0200
>
>Hi Steve
>
>Many of the greenhouse tunnels I have seen use wood or coal boilers to heat
>the water, and that costs significantly <$720 ($720 x 8.3 = R5976 = a fair
>income in African terms) per month. Water from the sump is pumped through
>a
>coil or drum over the furnace before going back into the main feed that
>supplies the fish tanks. A single fire is sufficient to maintain 150kl at
>26°C when the outside temperatures drop to >0°C, but I fear your thermal
>differential will be greater than this. Our tunnels are not well insulated
>though and you say yours is.
>
>Regards,
> Leslie
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: STEVE SPRING
>
>Sent: Wednesday, 22 August, 2001 8:04 AM
>Subject: Greenhouse heating
>
>
> > Hi gang,
> >
> > Well, winter is approaching and the time for my experiment is close at
>hand.
> > Those of you who have followed my rantings know that I want to grow
> > "summertime tomatos in the winter in Wisconsin".
> >
> > I tried this aquaponically with those $.50/ea hybrid dutch seeds and
>that
> > didn't work out well. I figured that if I could get somewhere between
>$150 -
> > $300/lb for the tomatos, I would just about break even. So much for that
> > idea.
> >
> > So, I bought a greenhouse
.a 20' x 12' hoop house. I'm growing my
>tomatos
> > in the Earth Boxes in the greenhouse and they are doing very, very well.
>I
> > know Adrianna is not too keen on these. She prefers the hydroponic
>method.
> > (I just CANNOT incorporate another system that I have to babysit.) But,
> > this is working well for me. I have "berjillions" of tomatos when others
>in
> > my area have a very scant crop. (We have had a very bizarre growing
>season.)
> > (Adrianna, quick question: Some of my tomatos, maybe 15% have a very
>hard
> > spot on them
.usually at the bottom. Most are perfect, but some have
>this
> > "thing". Any suggestions??)
> >
> > Now to the meat of this post: Greenhouse Heating. My "farm" (where the
>fish
> > are) is 80 - 85 F even in the dead of winter because I heat the water
>with
> > an in-tank bayonet style heater. (The "farm" is incredibly insulated. We
> > redid the entire building.) I plan on running a heat duct from the farm
>to
> > the greenhouse (apprx. 15') with a forced air fan. This will supply hot
>air
> > to the greenhouse. I plan on, follow the bouncing ball, turning night
>into
> > day in the greenhouse. I will be running a 1,000 watt grow light and 1
> > (maybe 2) 450 watt grow lights during the night which is the coldest
>time
> > and setting them on timers to kick off shortly after daybreak. I checked
> > with Wisconsin Electric yesterday and they confirmed my worst fears
>about
> > the cost of electric heat during the time when all of the supplemental
>heat
> > will be off. They told me that if I used electric wall heaters that it
>would
> > cost about $.50/hr per 3 linear feet. Therefore, 18' would cost me $3.00
>per
> > hour x 8 hrs = $24/day or $720/mo. I don't really believe these figures
> > because I ran a radiator type heater last year and it didn't cost near
>this
> > much, but it is still very, very expensive. Anyone got any ideas. Is
>there
> > any such thing as a propane heater that can be set on a timer?
>Again
.any
> > ideas??
> >
> > Thanks
.Steve
> >
> >
>
. .
| Message 8
Subject: List courtesy
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 07:30:28 -0500
I appreciate the changes many of you have made in the ways you post to the
group -- eliminating HTML whenever possible is a big savings in space.
Several days have passed since I've made a "list sponsor's" post, but here's
my Wednesday morning request:
Please DO NOT respond to a post and leave a full copy of the original
post(s) in your response. It not only complicates the posts, but is a
hardship for some of our members who still must pay for their internet
access by the time used. Downloading a few lines from you, along with
copies of 5-6 previous posts is wasteful -- not to mention completely
confusing and frustrating to those on our digest version. It is not
difficult to cut and paste pertinent parts of the post to which you are
replying, and is courteous to do so.
If anyone is new to this and needs step-by-step instructions, please let me
know at .
Thanks,
Paula
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
. .
| Message 9
Subject: Re: Greenhouse heating
From: "Jay Myers"
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 07:33:35 -0500
Problem with propane is you have no control of cost. Last winter it went to
$2.25/gal.
Jay
> howdy leslie, with your inflation heading to 100%, everything is
costly
.I
> am researching a propane boiler system, 200,000BTU, putting the lines
under
> gravel, this is large enough for 3 greenhouses 30'x100', cost is around
> 4,000US for the boiler
.cost of propane right now is .84US per gallon
. .
| Message 10
Subject: Re: List courtesy
From: "gerry magnuson"
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 02:39:09 -1000
apologies about forgetting about the additions included with messages.
Paula, seems as tho some do not subscribe to your experience and
assistance
.maybe you could mention what you have available, (besides a
free bed & breakfast
.heheh)
.cowboy
>
:
. .
| Message 11
Subject: Re: Greenhouse heating
From: "gerry magnuson"
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 02:46:29 -1000
jay, propane is fixed with fuel prices, I guarantee a season use of
x-amount, and they guarantee me that set price for the season
.this company
I am dealing with sells to homes at 1.45-1.60, to me 1.24, so I got them to
settle at .84 for the season
.one system to consider with a small
greenhouse, you decide on small, is just to buy a 40 gallon water heater,
and run your heating system from that and recirculate with grundfos pumps,
maybe install a small holding tank, or even use 'anti'freeze in the
system
.with the recrculating water, the demand will not be high as there
will still be heat in the returning water
.just a thought, gave you 5% of
the project
.cowboy
>
>
. .
| Message 12
Subject: Re: Greenhouse heating
From: "Jay Myers"
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 09:10:15 -0500
Hey Cowboy -
We have 2 40 gal water heaters and circulate to our 4000 gal fish tank,
which in turn acts as a heat sink for the greenhouse. We thought we had a
deal with the propane guy at $.95 / gal, buy when his costs went up to where
he was losing money, he told us we had a choice - pay the higher price, or
he would stick to the quote, but his truck just wouldn't get here.
As of this AM it looks like the price of oil is starting back up, so just be
careful. My greenhouse is going to used oil, which I have anyway. We're
selling off the 2 propane water heaters.
Jay
ps - what kind of cows do you have ?
> jay, propane is fixed with fuel prices, I guarantee a season use of
> x-amount, and they guarantee me that set price for the season
.this
company
> I am dealing with sells to homes at 1.45-1.60, to me 1.24, so I got them
to
> settle at .84 for the season
.one system to consider with a small
> greenhouse, you decide on small, is just to buy a 40 gallon water heater,
> and run your heating system from that and recirculate with grundfos pumps,
> maybe install a small holding tank, or even use 'anti'freeze in the
> system
.with the recrculating water, the demand will not be high as there
> will still be heat in the returning water
.just a thought, gave you 5% of
> the project
.cowboy
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
. .
| Message 13
Subject: Re: Greenhouse heating
From: "gerry magnuson"
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 04:18:07 -1000
does the system work? depending on how much you use, he is making good money
at .95, I also have a forest of hardwood, 90+ acres, which I will eventually
convert, but must study more with the systems available, I like all systems
available to me, I am more worried about the grow light systems
cowboy, no
cows, no horse, but have been in a lot of saddles
lol
>
. .
| Message 14
Subject: Re: Greenhouse heating
From: "Jay Myers"
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 09:23:12 -0500
> does the system work?
Yes
depending on how much you use, he is making good money
> at .95
We were using 80 - 100 gal / week and only trying to keep the g/h some above
freezing. Were growing strawberries, so could get colder than if we were
growing tomatoes.
You can see at www.aerialad.net click on Hydro Farm.
I also have a forest of hardwood, 90+ acres, which I will eventually
> convert, but must study more with the systems available, I like all
systems
> available to me, I am more worried about the grow light systems
cowboy,
no
> cows, no horse, but have been in a lot of saddles
lol
Think you'll find you will come out best using the cheapest fuel you have.
Sounds like wood.
Jay
. .
| Message 15
Subject: Re: Greenhouse heating
From: Mick
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 10:08:57 -0500
Steve,
Here in Texas, the winters aren't so bad. Three or four days of freezing
weather, usually. My winter plan is to heat the water in the fish tanks and
have a couple of compost heaters to warm the air. This is my first winter in
the greenhouse so I'll let ya know next spring if it works.
I'll construct the compost heater using a water trough as the base and making
the sides from chicken wire and scrap wood. This will give me a tall compost
pile that doesn't need to be turned. The water trough catch basin will allow me
to keep it moist without making a huge mess on the concrete floor of the
greenhouse.
Well, that's my plan anyways
we'll see what nature has to say about all this.
Mick
. .
| Message 16
Subject: Re: Furnace
From: pantryman 'at' empireone.net
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 10:04:13 -0500
Hi Bert
Hope this info is helpful.Furnace
.www.shol.com/mahoning
Oil
.www.veggievan.org
Bob
Bertmcl wrote:
>
> Where may I get more info on your setup? I have 80 acres of woodland and a
> majority of it is tulip poplar. I am looking for a better source of heat and
> cooling for both GH and fish water. Do you have any info of using recycled
> oil for heat?
>
> Thanks for your time.
>
> Bert
>
>
. .
| Message 17
Subject: Re: Furnace
From: pantryman 'at' empireone.net
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 10:17:36 -0500
Bert.Try these instead
Furnace
www.shol.com/mahoning
Oil
www.veggievan.org
Bob
Bertmcl wrote:
>
> Where may I get more info on your setup? I have 80 acres of woodland and a
> majority of it is tulip poplar. I am looking for a better source of heat and
> cooling for both GH and fish water. Do you have any info of using recycled
> oil for heat?
>
> Thanks for your time.
>
> Bert
>
>
. .
| Message 18
Subject: Re: Greenhouse heating
From: "Brent Bingham"
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 08:36:51 -0700
I believe propane has only about 90,000 Btu's of energy.
Diesel and oil has 140,000 ++ Btu's per gallon. If you compare propane to
other fuel its true cost per Btu is usually more expensive the buying
heating oil. Waste oil boilers are usually your best choice. We can get them
for list members at a discount. Look for a source of oil.
Brent
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jay Myers"
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 5:33 AM
Subject: Re: Greenhouse heating
> Problem with propane is you have no control of cost. Last winter it went
to
> $2.25/gal.
>
Jay>
. .
| Message 19
Subject: Re: Real military aid
From: Arlus Farnsworth
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 09:02:52 -0700
I would assume that most of what I have done on a hobby scale would require
inexpensive automation to produce any great amount. Food production requires
good hygiene, especially monoculture such as alcohol. Gas is a good portable
fuel. Something less portable would probably be a better fit for semi-permanent
operations. I would keep the gas option as backup reserves. Electricity is just
the messenger. Why waste transmission loss and cable cost? Tesla wanted to use
the entire earth as a transmission medium, and actually accomplished this feat.
Probably would be very noisy in the radio spectrum. But the fantasy is free
power worldwide is possible, heh heh.
Brent Bingham wrote:
> Our push was to find a economical use for the grain on the bottom of our
> grain storage. The seed germ was dead in most of what we tested but the corn
> oil and solids steel had food value. We went to a German company and
> purchased a double screw pellet mill to make fish and livestock feed. We
> paid for a very expensive lesson.
> for what it is worth " there is economy of scale " that a farm size
> operation cannot reach. A family farm can get free slave labor to play with
> cutting edge technology. Making "home brew" fuel is not that hard. Making is
> economical is near imposable. The answer may lie in integration. Archer
> Daniels Midland uses every possible ounce of byproduct. A home based system
> has a poor chance at best with $ 10.00 per hour labor and current fuel
> costs. To make alcohol takes some skill ,some art and some luck. Just a few
> bacteria in the brew and you get vinegar, very expensive vinegar.
>
> It seems there is enough expertise on the list to get some
> very interesting projects going. We will share what we have done and it
> seems others will as well.
>
> It is ok to have ones head in the clouds as long as you keep at least on
> foot on the ground. Turbines are great
> BUT they also need oil, very special oil! I try not to have the attitude of
> "been there done that" BUT if you look very close at the total cycle of a
> turbine you see much of its energy is used to compress its fuel and air
> supply. Next you must use the heat. All the units we tested do not pencil
> out if you do not recapture the heat for cogeneration and domestic heating
> of some sort.
> We need to partner with a power plant to be next to there waste unless this
> new unit has broke new ground.
> Lets get going!.
> Brent
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Arlus Farnsworth"
>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 2:17 PM
> Subject: Re: Real military aid
>
> >
> >
> > Brent Bingham wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > vehicles to run on the 170 proof fuel made from spoiled grain. By the
> time
> > > we cooked the mash and paid for the enzymes to brake the starch down to
> > > simple sugars our costs were 50% more the farm fuel.
> >
> > What about the malting process of germination and sparging? You would have
> to
> > use viable grain of course, but the residue could be used for feed. Or you
> could
> > spread it on crackers. Not sure if yeast counts as a vegetable serving. It
> is
> > half fungus and half bacteria. Is there a limit to what is produced in
> aquaponic
> > systems categorically? I can imagine many spin off applications for
> > sub-components, not only for the purpose of food production.
> >
> > I was curious to understand the logistics of oil producing seeds?
> >
> >
> >
. .
| Message 20
Subject: Re: Tech help please
From: Arlus Farnsworth
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 09:44:31 -0700
I have seen recently several issues of having to "dump" mostly to the effect of
such being restricted by permit conditions. Now granted this is hypothesis and
theory, but wouldn't it be usefull to have some sort of waste processing unit on
a smaller scale than the regional plants or ocean? I'm sure products can be
derived from this process eventually. In fact there is one "garden giant"
mushroom that becomes infested with fly larvae that fish eat. What I actually
had in mind was an enhanced gravel filter where at some point organic material
is removed much like the plant beds, only the water coming out can be certified
as clean drainage. Or you could have a primary gravel for the bacteria, then run
it through a secondary box where fungus would remove bacteria and pathogens and
further release or enhance availability of nutrients in simple and complex
forms, then through a final process with a different fungus that cleans up
everything else. Once this is proven it will be easier to convince other
localities to license the process. Why fungus? That is what it's purpose is, a
primary and secondary decomposer, a real champ. In fact plants often benefit
from fungus that releases nutrients in a more palatable form (less work
required to uptake and utilize) in fact some plants and trees will not grow
without certain fungus and vice-versa. Plant growth in soil can be dramatically
enhanced with the proper bacterial and fungal innoculants. I would further
recommend everyone involved learn how to identify pathogens in a microscope.
Remember, much of this is not a proven technology, much less applicable to a
large scale. One application on a larger scale would be to treat leach areas
(soil), but again, this has not been completely proven. For instance, if the
effluent seeps into a water table before sufficient contact with filter beds.
STEVE SPRING wrote:
> Hi Marc,
>
> Very, very glad for your response. I was very afraid that you would be
> offended and I certainly did not want that.
>
> I wish I could achieve some sort of equilibrium and not have to dump. This
> is a major, and very "chilling" problem in Feb. in Wisconsin. (I guess the
> same as in Canada.) Now, even with only 100 or so Tilapia in my system
> (apprx. 1500 gal), every 3rd or 4th day, I have to make a major dump
.just
> too much fish poop. I don't have a large growbed area
.probably only about
> +/- 60ft2. And, I only feed the fish what they will eat in 15 or 20 min.
>
> Don't know.>
> Thanks again
Steve
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Marc Laberge"
>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 1:37 AM
> Subject: Re: Tech help please
>
> Steve, I agree with you 100% about the fish being the barometer, if they eat
> then they are doing well. If you can dump that's great.
> The commercial system I am working on , will be quite large and due to very
> strict environmental laws up here in Québec, there is no way that I would be
> able to just dump my water. Besides, achieving water chemistry equilibrium
> is what I am working on to maintain a constant production of both healthy
> fish and lettuce.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: STEVE SPRING
> To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
> Date: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 12:36 AM
> Subject: Re: Tech help please
>
> >Hi Mick,
> >
> >No disrerspect to Marc in Canada intended
.but here is another example of
> >how you can "test" yourself into insanity. If I had a million gallon system
> >with hundreds of thousands of fish, I guess I would test all of these
> >things. I think Marc has a very large system.
> >
> >I guess I still have to stick to what that old farmer said, "If you can SEE
> >your fish and they are eating well, then you are o.k." I know that my
> >personal farming etiquette is if the fish swarm to the food, then I know
> >that all is o.k. If they are hesitant about eating, I do a major water
> dump.
> >Works for me.
> >
> >Now, I don't have the operation that Marc has, so you make your own
> >decisions.
> >
> >Steve
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Marc Laberge"
> >
> >Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 3:48 PM
> >Subject: Re: Tech help please
> >
> >
> >Hi Mick,
> >I don't know how big your system is but
.you should learn about pH, a
> >sudden change in this can be the difference between healthy or dead fish,
> >between healthy and unhealthy plants. Although in the short term , pH may
> >remain stable ( depending on your system; with or without solid removal )
> it
> >will fluctuate to a certain degree. If you don't have any buffer material
> in
> >your system like limestone gravel or a sufficient alkalinity levels, you
> may
> >be in for a surprise in the future. Do you flush any water ? If you don't,
> >think of your alkalinity as a buffer reserve which is being slowly eaten
> >away by the carbon dioxide produced by the fish which turns the water
> >acidic. The bacteria in your biofilter also are using the alkalinity
> >reserve, which again , is slowly being eaten away. Eventually the reserve
> >disappears and the water pH drops down causing your ammonia to become toxic
> >and your nitrifying bacteria to be so stressed that they do not function
> >properly causing your nitrite to peak and become toxic to your fish.
> >
> >best be prepared
> >
> >Marc Laberge
> >Québec, Canada
> >
> >
. .
| Message 21
Subject: Re: Greenhouse heating
From: Arlus Farnsworth
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 10:28:52 -0700
.50 seeds are not the way to go. You could possibly clone. I wouldn't use a
dutch hybrid greenhouse version. Instead I would use a heirloom that is
acclimitized as far north as possible. That way you can select your own true
seed stock and maintain your greenhouse at a lower temperature, saving money.
Besides, heirlooms often are more tasty.
Yes, there are heaters and (natural gas as far as I know) CO2 generators that
run on timers.
You might consider going completely insulated during the winter months, save on
heating costs because the light is probably already delivered in excess of
requirements therefore no need for the poorly insulated greenhouse covering. You
could collect solar heat from the roof during the day instead with a passive
heat pump.
You could make a "tea cozy" for your greenhouse and collect excess heat in heat
storage tubes. Or
. fish tanks.
All this is proven technology.
You could even use a parabolic concentrator and "beam" the light in through a
small orifice in the insulation and distribute through a diffuser. The brighter
the collector, the less efficient. You don't want to inadvertantly block or
absorb any of the spectrum, as it is likely that plants respond to a range of
radiation, elaborate. A parabola is a simple math equation and can be milled as
a cross section from which can be constructed a form. The collector might be
supported on a hollow rod with coated inner walls or fibre optic. This way, you
would have insulation and light, and only have to supplement minimal energy in
comparison.
There is a rhythm and there is a balance. And a plan. Of course you wouldn't
choke up the planet with light collectors. A planet can be appreciated for what
it is. There is plenty of space out there.
STEVE SPRING wrote:
> Hi gang,
>
> Well, winter is approaching and the time for my experiment is close at hand.
> Those of you who have followed my rantings know that I want to grow
> "summertime tomatos in the winter in Wisconsin".
>
> I tried this aquaponically with those $.50/ea hybrid dutch seeds and that
> didn't work out well. I figured that if I could get somewhere between $150 -
> $300/lb for the tomatos, I would just about break even. So much for that
> idea.
>
> So, I bought a greenhouse
.a 20' x 12' hoop house. I'm growing my tomatos
> in the Earth Boxes in the greenhouse and they are doing very, very well. I
> know Adrianna is not too keen on these. She prefers the hydroponic method.
> (I just CANNOT incorporate another system that I have to babysit.) But,
> this is working well for me. I have "berjillions" of tomatos when others in
> my area have a very scant crop. (We have had a very bizarre growing season.)
> (Adrianna, quick question: Some of my tomatos, maybe 15% have a very hard
> spot on them
.usually at the bottom. Most are perfect, but some have this
> "thing". Any suggestions??)
>
> Now to the meat of this post: Greenhouse Heating. My "farm" (where the fish
> are) is 80 - 85 F even in the dead of winter because I heat the water with
> an in-tank bayonet style heater. (The "farm" is incredibly insulated. We
> redid the entire building.) I plan on running a heat duct from the farm to
> the greenhouse (apprx. 15') with a forced air fan. This will supply hot air
> to the greenhouse. I plan on, follow the bouncing ball, turning night into
> day in the greenhouse. I will be running a 1,000 watt grow light and 1
> (maybe 2) 450 watt grow lights during the night which is the coldest time
> and setting them on timers to kick off shortly after daybreak. I checked
> with Wisconsin Electric yesterday and they confirmed my worst fears about
> the cost of electric heat during the time when all of the supplemental heat
> will be off. They told me that if I used electric wall heaters that it would
> cost about $.50/hr per 3 linear feet. Therefore, 18' would cost me $3.00 per
> hour x 8 hrs = $24/day or $720/mo. I don't really believe these figures
> because I ran a radiator type heater last year and it didn't cost near this
> much, but it is still very, very expensive. Anyone got any ideas. Is there
> any such thing as a propane heater that can be set on a timer? Again
.any
> ideas??
>
> Thanks
.Steve
. .
| Message 22
Subject: Re: List courtesy
From: Arlus Farnsworth
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 10:41:14 -0700
--D54DC6AFEEE095B71BC2FD9B
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
ooops me too.
gerry magnuson wrote:
> apologies about forgetting about the additions included with messages.>
--D54DC6AFEEE095B71BC2FD9B
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
ooops me too.
gerry magnuson wrote:
apologies about forgetting about the additions included
with messages.
--D54DC6AFEEE095B71BC2FD9B--
. .
| Message 23
Subject: Heirloom tomatoes
From: "gutierrez-lagatta"
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 12:52:45 -0500
Arlus,
Can you speak from experience of having success (ON A COMMERCIAL
LEVEL) at growing heirloom tomatoes in a greenhouse? Has anybody
else? I know there is a market for them - in my area the conventional
organic growers will soon be out of tomatoes and there is definitely a
void that can be filled with greenhouse heirlooms. My impression,
from my reading and from experiences of some on this list, is that
heirlooms are notoriously difficult to grow in a greenhouse, in part
because of their susceptibility to a number of dieases. Anybody care
to comment?
> .I wouldn't use a dutch hybrid greenhouse version. Instead I would
use a heirloom that is
> acclimitized as far north as possible. That way you can select your
own true
> seed stock and maintain your greenhouse at a lower temperature,
saving money.>
Adriana
. .
| Message 24
Subject: Re: List courtesy
From: Andrei Calciu
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 13:50:55 -0400
Hold yer horses fellas!
you need to keep SOME of the previous post, otherwise your replies will be
with no reference to the conversation and their value will be nil most of
the time, like anything else taken out of context. Just be judicious and
snip the chaff out of the message you are appending to your reply.
Check out the thoughtful snip done by Arlus. I left it intact, attached to
this message to use as an example.
-_______________
Andrei D. Calciu (VA-4270)
NEC America, Inc.
14040 Park Center Dr.
Herndon, VA 20171-3227
Voice: 703-834-4273
Fax: 703-787-6613
This message and any attachment are confidential. If you are not the
intended recipient, please telephone or email the sender and delete the
message and any attachment from your system. If you are not the intended
recipient you must not copy this message or attachment or disclose the
contents to any other person.
Arlus Farnsworth
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Sent by: cc:
aquaponics-request 'at' t Subject: Re: List courtesy
ownsqr.com
08/22/01 01:41 PM
Please respond to
aquaponics
ooops me too.
gerry magnuson wrote:
apologies about forgetting about the additions included with
messages.
. .
| Message 25
Subject: Re: Heirloom tomatoes
From: Arlus Farnsworth
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 11:52:13 -0700
No. I was thinking that instead of growing them in the high temperature
and humidity of your standard greenhouse, you could modify the environment
to be more suitable for the energy requirements and the particular plant.
If you could find a variety that was local then it follows it might have
resistance to endemic microbial conditions. You might have to do go
through some generations of selection for the particular growing
environment before an ideal specimen is realized and cloned. Pure
conjecture, commercially. Worth trying on a small scale if time and
patience permits. The smaller the breeding operation, the bigger the odds
that your patience will be tried in realizing an ideal specimen. Unless
you are sifting through exceptional stock in the first place. Another
reason to try the heirloom, unique genetics that might be very beneficial
in monogenetic cropping, remember the corn problem.
gutierrez-lagatta wrote:
> Arlus,
> Can you speak from experience of having success (ON A COMMERCIAL
> LEVEL) at growing heirloom tomatoes in a greenhouse?
. .
| Message 26
Subject: Re: Aquaponics for beliefs sake??
From: dreadlox
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:01:27 -0700
Leslie.
Read the following from Mark Wells recently
.from a person in Africa
Our fishes are the sweetest and the biggest of Benin Republic. They have
the best growth rate and have a particular taste. The daily gain is
about 1.05 - 1.3 grammes and the mortality rate 0.2 to 2 %. I need to
precise that we feed our fish exclusively with maggots.
Then look at the thread re Military Aid at what some of our listmembers
have done in lieu of trial with machinery. My point is maybe we dont
need to extrude feed with expensive machinery
!May be we can feed fish
without actually formulating the feed into pellets. Lots of foods can be
slurried and dried
. at least thats what I do
.just put it up in the
sun on my roof and basta, I have crumbly stuff to feed. ( my own
formulation
again
. what will some of us eat and what will we not??)
Some people couldnt fathom feeding larvae or maggots yet to me it is
just pure protein, so we have the area of stigma
.hmm
I try one principle
. with all my endeavours
. and that after being
trained to build FULLY integrated "sit home and watch your entire
factory run on the screen" stuff all over the world
. and that is the
KISS (keep it simple sweetie
as ma wife says
) she has a great grasp
of technolgy being a ER nurse so when she doesnt get it first time when
I explain I scrap it all together
If you looked at my posts of other groups I am on you will see stuff
like gasification list
. as came up for discussion in the same
thread
.and other things. There are ways to make your own power
I
think because I am technically inclined many things may sound like a
breeze coming from my mouth
. but I keep myself informed
. up to even
looking at hydrogen as an alternative
. I have built many gadgets to
prove the point
but I remain silent about them because history has
shown a trail of blood and greed when it come to independence from oil.
I use 12 volt motors in my system and turn it off sometimes. Right now
the basic idea is to buffer power (solar) into a deep cycle battery, and
run the system from there. I have a stabilized power supply which tops
in when that is not possible
Its not rocket science but it works
There are many other ways of doing
it like making buffer gravity flow systems
with 12 volts and about 20
watts usage you can pump 600 gals/hr. Imagine a battery of motors
feeding on a panel somewhere pumping to somewhere elevated on your
property, using motors trashed from say old computers and gadgets? These
are dime a dozen!!
Ive already replaced these motors with others from old car devices.
Beauty is they need not even be efficient to any great extent. You can
get HUNDREDS of them at any dump.
ETC ETC
All depends on what you have and what you want
look at Jay,
with 90 acres of trees (wood) he could generate his own gas and power
and heat
. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/message/1461 or do a
search for ' Dale Costitch ' and look how he has lived independent of
the grid for years!
It is possible.:> Just depends how hard you want it.
You can also build a close looped steam solar system and this can be
used to drive pumps too
. bottom line, it hard for me to tell you what
you can and cannot do. I am a survivor by nature, and what I will do is
not what another man will!! The sun is something else that Babylon
cannot switch on or off at random. Thank God. How will you and I harness
it?
On that note, has anyone ever eaten duckweed in any great portions? Any
side effects? Any tips??
greetings.
Mike
Leslie Ter Morshuizen wrote:
>
> Hi Mike
>
> With regard to your comment below, I fail to see how you derive security
> from aquaponics during a time of real hardship, when our aquaponic systems
> are still reliant on electricity? Does anyone have a system that is totally
> stand alone in terms of fuel inputs, and in this I include fish feed,
> electricity, etc?
>
> Leslie
>
. .
| Message 27
Subject: Re: Aquaponics for beliefs sake??
From: "Brent Bingham"
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 13:38:29 -0700
If you are in an area with wind you can pump water with low pressure air.
Build a wind air pump and inject air into a 1" pipe submerged in water. as
the air bubbles rise they push water above them. The water is aerated and
pumped at the same time. This works very well when you cannot put a windmill
up over the water source. With in reason you can have the wind air pump a
long ways from the water. You can use old car AC units as the pumps.
Brent
----- Original Message -----
From:
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 3:01 PM
Subject: Re: Aquaponics for beliefs sake??
>
> Its not rocket science but it works
There are many other ways of doing
> it like making buffer gravity flow systems
with 12 volts and about 20
> watts usage you can pump 600 gals/hr. Imagine a battery of motors
> feeding on a panel somewhere pumping to somewhere elevated on your
> property, using motors trashed from say old computers and gadgets? These
> are dime a dozen!!
>
> Ive already replaced these motors with others from old
://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/message/1461 or do a
> search for ' Dale Costitch ' and look how he has lived independent of
> the grid for years!
>
> It is possible.:> Just depends how hard you want it.
> You can also build a close looped steam solar system and this can be
> used to drive pumps too
. bottom line, it hard for me to tell you what
> you can and cannot do. I am a survivor by nature, and what I will do is
> not what another man will!! The sun is something else that Babylon
> cannot switch on or off at random. Thank God. How will you and I harness
> it?
>
> Leslie Ter Morshuizen wrote:
> >
> > Hi Mike
> >
> > With regard to your comment below, I fail to see how you derive security
> > from aquaponics during a time of real hardship, when our aquaponic
systems
> > are still reliant on electricity? Does anyone have a system that is
totally
> > stand alone in terms of fuel inputs, and in this I include fish feed,
> > electricity, etc?
> >
> > Leslie
> >
>
. .
| Message 28
Subject: Zebra Mussels
From: "Frank Stancato"
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 17:04:55 -0400
There was a discusion on zebra mussels a while back and I pulled this
article from ENN for your review.
It provides the drawback for using these mussels to clean water.
http://www.enn.com/news/enn-stories/2001/08/08222001/mussels_44691.asp?site=
WEBRELEAF
Frank
. .
| Message 29
Subject: Re: Aquaponics for beliefs sake??
From: "Barry Thomas"
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 01:27:46 +0100
Mike,
As I can't comment on any one or two points that you (or Ms. Strassel) make
without going though all the others line by line, it's probably best if I
just express my surprise at seeing you take such a blatant attempt at
division, blame-shifting and general troublemaking so seriously.
If you really want to help small farmers, I suggest you refrain from
propagating such badly twisted "information" as (if for no other reason) the
intention of the writer is something quite different.
Also, I would avoid trying to make this a town/city vs country thing - again
it merely divides people, further _dis_empowering them.
Barry
PS You wrote "The love of animals is now more
.than the RIGHTS of
humans to administrate the land? " Can't help but ask: Are people who
raise concerns over our use of the environment in some way less than human
then?
> Rural Cleansing
> Environmentalists' goal: Depopulate the countryside.
>
> BY KIMBERLEY A. STRASSEL
> Thursday, July 26, 2001 12:01 a.m. EDT
. .
| Message 30
Subject: Bioneers?
From: "gutierrez-lagatta"
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 20:25:53 -0500
Is anybody familiar with the bioneers organization? It sounds like
there might be some kindred spirits over there.
http://www.bioneers.org/
Adriana
. .
| Message 31
Subject: Re: Zebra Mussels
From: "Arlos"
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 18:30:01 -0700
Frank,
the article sums up most of the problems associated with Zebra mussels but
I have yet to see anyone find a positive use for them in a controlled
environment as proposed here in this group. They would have to be contained
by use of UV in a mono culture. Veligers could be controlled before they go
through torsion I believe by subtracting the calcium from their shell. Their
rate of filtration is unparalleled in fresh water mussels which is the down
side but they do offer some great possibility to treat effluent if their
migration could be controlled.
Honestly, I'm really tempted to apply a little known technology used to
descale pipe on Zebra mussels.Anyone happen to have an intake pipe plugged
with Zebra Mussels that is near the surface?
Arlos
-----Original Message-----
From: Frank Stancato
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Date: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 1:57 PM
Subject: Zebra Mussels
>There was a discusion on zebra mussels a while back and I pulled this
>article from ENN for your review.
>
>It provides the drawback for using these mussels to clean water.
>
>http://www.enn.com/news/enn-stories/2001/08/08222001/mussels_44691.asp?site
=
>WEBRELEAF
>
>
>Frank
>
>
. .
| Message 32
Subject: Home brew filters.From: dreadlox
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 23:05:56 -0700
Yippee!!
I was so happy today Mark, after building a hydrocylone like the one
pictured in the webpage you sent, to clean some tanks which I rather
"let go" ! I made it out of a PET bottle, of an orange soda brand which
has more of a 45 degree cone on top than a smooth slant curve as with
others.
What I did was drill a hole in the lid of a 2 gallon pail to accept the
PET bottle, and then screwed the PET bottle into it. About 2 inches from
the top of the bottle, I used the throw away spout that comes with
silicone glue etc to make a perfect nozzle. I cut it down from the top
of the cone spout to about half as long as the nozzle is,
longituditally, and then used some heat to bend it into a hockey stick
curve shape. This I placed inside my flex hose, and pushed this tightly
into the hole I had made in the 2 PET bottle. I then connected a 12 V
pump and basta
!! The solids are swun out to the side and then they
settle out, as they hit the inclined section of the bottle to the bottom
of the gal pail.
One needs to make a hole in the top of the PET bottle for air to form
the vortex. I also made a few holes in the lid of the 2 gal pail so that
the backpressure on the small pump wasnt too great. I get an added bonus
as an aeration stream I guess.
I went to watch the news and came back and was surprised to see the
green THICK soup that had gathered in the collection chamber.My roof
plants were glad for that liquid ferti!
I would be glad to hear from you all how you have tackled home brew
filtration, no RBC (rotating bio contactors or filters
) I made also
another filter with very fine mesh in the style of UVI on their
homepage
. with just mesh in a container
. and allowing the solids to
settle. Just as good results. I was turning over 200 gals per tank with
a 600 gal/hr pump by the way. The tank has no low point or sump yet, as
this is just my learning node.
Excited like a cub scout
.lol.! :>
Thanks for awakening my interest in vortex filters Mark!
--
><{{{*> Mike Barnett <*}}}><
JAMAICA, West Indies
. .
| Message 33
Subject: Re: Aquaponics for beliefs sake??
From: dreadlox
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 23:13:03 -0700
Brent Bingham wrote:
>
> If you are in an area with wind you can pump water with low pressure air.
> Build a wind air pump and inject air into a 1" pipe submerged in water. as
> the air bubbles rise they push water above them. The water is aerated and
> pumped at the same time. This works very well when you cannot put a windmill
> up over the water source. With in reason you can have the wind air pump a
> long ways from the water. You can use old car AC units as the pumps.
> Brent
--
Thanks Brent.
You sound like the kind of guy Id like to spend a few afternoons hanging
out with. Do you remember me talking about Wind Aeration the other day>?
Well I did EXACTLY what you suggested here
. matter of fact connected
it in such a way that the double pulley could either be wind powered or
MOTOR (electric) driven at nights.
PLlease give me some more of this!! This is the kind of thing that gets
me going!!! :> And no Leslie
. no sexually!! Smile
.:>
><{{{*> Mike Barnett <*}}}><
JAMAICA, West Indies
. .
| Message 34
Subject: Re: Greenhouse heating
From: "Leslie Ter Morshuizen"
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 17:42:51 +0200
Hi Gerry
What is a BTU in kW?
Leslie
> howdy leslie, with your inflation heading to 100%, everything is
costly
.I
> am researching a propane boiler system, 200,000BTU, putting the lines
under
> gravel, this is large enough for 3 greenhouses 30'x100', cost is around
> 4,000US for the boiler
.cost of propane right now is .84US per gallon
. .
| Message 35
Subject: Re: Aquaponics for beliefs sake??
From: dreadlox
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 00:08:58 -0700
Barry Thomas wrote:
>
> Mike,
>
> As I can't comment on any one or two points that you (or Ms. Strassel) make
> without going though all the others line by line, it's probably best if I
> just express my surprise at seeing you take such a blatant attempt at
> division, blame-shifting and general troublemaking so seriously.
>
> PS You wrote "The love of animals is now more
.than the RIGHTS of
> humans to administrate the land? " Can't help but ask: Are people who
> raise concerns over our use of the environment in some way less than human
> then?
--
Barry, my extensive use of questions signs should cue you in. I dont
think you need to read me taking this SERIOUSly as much as I take
seriupsly the CONSEQUENCES if it is TRUE. Remember I am a comfortable
lateral thinker
. I thought this article "interesting" because I heard
a lot of stuff lately here on the list about the States doing various
things. I wanted to show that right at "home" crazy things are
happening
. what about that guy who got punished because some pollen
from a genetically modified field blew across to his?? Whats wid dat
mon?? :> I am glad if it awoke some thought in some minds. I would hate
for the article to be right!!
I went through something similar as in the article Barry
in Europe,
where animal rights groups are somewhat more radical and stronger than
in the USA. I as an international listener here on the list, I had to
listen as many of you saw the enemy "without" but I have watched many in
the village some of my ancestors hail from literally come to a halt
because of animal rights policies, GATT and other external trade
policies
etc. and this in 10 years. Now all this is is a bed village
where rich yuppies come in to buy up a weekend farmhouse. The whole
place has come to a standstill. I have traversed Europe and seen the
same thing
.
One such change was increasing the stall bedding LENGTH for cows by 6-8
inches on average and using deep bedding for cows
those who couldnt
manage to do so simply had to close their stall. I watch my second "Dad"
refurbish the farm and then RETIRE. It dented that farm and a FAMILY
TRADITION OF over 300 years. I have no bitterness within Barry.
Understand that. I fear for those so disconnected from nature that they
will be at the forefront of dire things to come. (My belief. :)
Give you another similie
. I was involved in fighting for the rights
of colored children of mixed marriages, and foreign nationals in
Europe, when we had to vote about a racial slur law. MANY of my friends
thought this the "hit" and a great step forwards
. that would get all
of those calling us "negroes" etc
one SLAMMED on the brakes on a
highway when I told him I would vote AGAINST it. See, change is wrought
in my mind in the HEART and not on paper. Id rather a man tell me Im an
ass to my face than harbor that in his heart. BTW the law WAS passed.Point they ALL missed, the agenda is not freedom, it is to FORCE a sort
of false peace, brotherhood of man etc etc
. and now they can be
LOCKED up for telling the neighbour who is getting out of line (of prior
traditional values) where to get off.
I respect your right to believe what I sent is tainted. That is why I
qouted it in full including source, and ASKED a lot of (what I thought
were ) stimulating questions. Glad to hear you are challenged to think
about what is happening in USA. With all respect Barry, I have been a
long time across the ocean from you and I can tell you
. Europe is
PAINFUL to me at the moment. The heavy hand of Brussel tells us what to
do and many are suffering. I saw many a young man, especially even on
farms in Eastern Europe not able to sustain a family again much less
even find a wife, let alone be willing to believe farming is viable.
Last night PBS carried an EXCELLENT report on Jamaica. It showed stroke
for stroke how we were cornered into accepting IMF funds and the
results
. banana industry gone
alumina gone
cane sugar gone.freezone work, (making clothes
.) gone
.milk and beef gone.vegatables
.gone
. virtually everything is on the go here Barry. We
have VERY LITTLE but "tourism" and "growing spices" left to our benefit,
as one fellow from a lending agency offered. Did anyone see this?
Anything so ineptly against FAMILY to me is a threat and worth thinking
about. Call it aquaponics for beliefs sake for real
. we HAVE to seek
alternatives
.alternatives where family is fostered not deleted.( my
belief)
We MUST be doing something wrong !!??
Btw , no I dont think that people who look to the rights of animals are
lesser or worse off. In fact a tenet of the way I believe, says we are
to be GOOD stewards and administrators of the land, air sea, and
animals. I believe if everyone was doing this there would be no need for
a group to tell me how to do it.
I find it worthy what they do, but as Brent said and I agree 100% with
him
"IF you do believe (in the good book, my addition) then you know we must
DO what we can but we will never change what is going to happen. WE can
help ease the suffering and work with in the system we have. "
Its just good to be able to discuss the flip sides of these issues. CAn
you tell me offlist why the article is "off"? I am always willing to be
educated
Sincerely
><{{{*> Mike Barnett <*}}}><
JAMAICA, West Indies
|
