Aquaponics Digest - Fri 08/24/01
Message 1: Re: Economy of scale
from "Leslie Ter Morshuizen"
Message 2: Re: Artemia cysts
from "Leslie Ter Morshuizen"
Message 3: SYSTEM DESIGN
from "Cary Dizon"
Message 4: Re: Conversion of BTU to Watts
from "Leslie Ter Morshuizen"
Message 5: Aquaponics vs distinct fish & plant systems
from "Leslie Ter Morshuizen"
Message 6: 3rd world economies?
from "Leslie Ter Morshuizen"
Message 7: Re: Bacteria Mediated Yada Yada in Aquaponic Media: Phosphorus
from dreadlox
Message 8: Iron / Phosphate Info. from "Marc Laberge"
Message 9: Re: Stewardship
from dreadlox
Message 10: Re: vortex filters / hydrocyclones
from dreadlox
Message 11: Re: Conversion of BTU to Watts
from "Attie Esterhuyse"
Message 12: Re: cut and snip
from "gutierrez-lagatta"
Message 13: Wind power
from "Attie Esterhuyse"
Message 14: Re: Home brew filters. from Ian Franzmann
Message 15: Re:Economy of Scale
from Carolyn Hoagland
Message 16: Re: Wind power
from "Dorothy Mann"
Message 17: Re: Conversion of BTU to Watts
from Andrei Calciu
Message 18: Re: Aquaponics operation
from Andrei Calciu
Message 19: Re: Artemia cysts
from "Arlos"
Message 20: Re: Aquaponic Tomatoes in Wisconsin?
from Carolyn Hoagland
Message 21: Re: vortex filters
from Carolyn Hoagland
Message 22: Re: Home brew filters. from "Arlos"
Message 23: Re: Conversion of BTU to Watts
from "Dorothy Mann"
Message 24: Re: Aquaponics for beliefs sake??
from "Brent Bingham"
Message 25: Re: Aquaponics for beliefs sake??
from Andrei Calciu
Message 26: Re: Aquaponics vs distinct fish & plant systems
from "Brent Bingham"
Message 27: Re: Aquaponics vs distinct fish & plant systems
from "Robert Rogers"
Message 28: Re: Re:Economy of Scale
from "Brent Bingham"
Message 29: RE: Wind power
from "Mark Allen Wells"
Message 30: Re: Aquaponics for beliefs sake??
from "Brent Bingham"
Message 31: Re: Aquaponics vs distinct fish & plant systems
from "Brent Bingham"
Message 32: RE: Economy of scale
from "Mark Allen Wells"
Message 33: Free floating algae problem
from Bagelhole1 'at' aol.com
Message 34: RE: Profitibality of aquaponics ??
from "Mark Allen Wells"
Message 35: Re: Free floating algae problem
from dreadlox
Message 36: Re: Free floating algae problem
from "Brent Bingham"
Message 37: Reclaiming nutrients
from "Brent Bingham"
Message 38: reality marketing
from Carolyn Hoagland
Message 39: Re: reality marketing
from "Brent Bingham"
Message 40: Re: reality marketing
from Mick
. .
| Message 1
Subject: Re: Economy of scale
From: "Leslie Ter Morshuizen"
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 06:55:56 +0200
Hi Carolyn
What is your starting point - is it 'at' maximum yield per square foot' or is it
'at' total reuse within a recirculating system'? If the former, forget
aquaponics and use earth ponds as extensive culture tanks. Your inputs can
be as low as virtually zero. As soon as you intensify i.e. greenhouse
tunnel, electricity, etc, you have to increase your stocking density to
justify the increased capital investment. If land is not expensive why not
rather go the extensive route - it is less labour intensive and a good deal
safer, although admittedly not as enjoyable.
Leslie
> This list is about learning to do things the easy way. I am most
> interested in finding out how to run a total recirculating system
> (albeit on a hobby sized level) that uses *all* the by products. I am
> located in an area where land is not expensive and the climate is
> temperate.
. AND, I want to do all of this with as little energy
> input as possible. I don't need maximum yield per square foot. I
> want maximum yield per energy input.
. .
| Message 2
Subject: Re: Artemia cysts
From: "Leslie Ter Morshuizen"
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 05:50:52 +0200
Hi Arlos
Thanks. I have done the same, getting mine directly from several sources at
the lake, but the prices have gone up and the value of our currency down
relative to the $, so I am looking for the least expensive option. What do
you pay per dozen 1lbs tins?
Thanks again,
Leslie
----- Original Message -----
From: Arlos
Sent: Thursday, 23 August, 2001 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: Artemia cysts
> Lesle,
>
> I buy mine directly from a company in Salt lake City, Utah called ,
> "Aquatic Lifeline Inc". They can be reached
at;http://www.ali-artemia.com/.
> I've found virtually all of the cysts to be viable.
>
> Arlos
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Leslie Ter Morshuizen
> To: Aquaponics
> Date: Thursday, August 23, 2001 1:12 AM
> Subject: Artemia cysts
>
>
> >Hi all
> >
> >Can any of you recommend a source of artemia cysts that is reasonably
> >priced?
> >
> >Thanks,
> > Leslie
> >
> >
>
. .
| Message 3
Subject: SYSTEM DESIGN
From: "Cary Dizon"
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 23:35:39 -0700
I received your design manual and am reviewing the specifications for a
single node system prior to purchasing the equipment. What is not clear
from the material sent to me is the lengths of 1 1/2" PVC pipe for the
outflow/intake system. The design of the irrigation system is very clear,
but that for the outflow/intake system is not. For various reasons, I will
have to have the pipe cut into manageable lengths (12 feet or less) at the
time I purchase it. Please send me this additional information.
Thanks for your help.
CPD
. .
| Message 4
Subject: Re: Conversion of BTU to Watts
From: "Leslie Ter Morshuizen"
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 08:18:21 +0200
Thanks Arlos
Leslie
A few posts ago someone asked about converting BTU's to Watts??? any, hope
this helps.
TO CONVERT INTO MULTIPLE
BY
Watts Btu/hour
3.4129
Watts Btu/ minute
0.05688
Btu/hour Watts
0.2931
Btu/minutes Kilowatts
0.01757
Btu/mintues Watts 17.57
Arlos
. .
| Message 5
Subject: Aquaponics vs distinct fish & plant systems
From: "Leslie Ter Morshuizen"
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 08:29:20 +0200
Hi all
A limitation of aquaponics appears to be that the optimal nutrient levels
for plants greatly exceed the tolerance levels for most fish species, and
the ideal nutrient levels for fish hardly support plants. If this is the
case, should we not be looking at a system whereby the waste from a number
of fish tanks is removed from the system at the point at which it is
concentrated prior to the biofilters. This can be done intermittently or
continuously. This nutrient rich waste then leaves the system in which the
fish are being raised and is used on a hydroponic plant system. The
benefits are that the nutrient levels in the two systems will each be better
suited to the culture species than by including both in a single system.
Comments?
Leslie
. .
| Message 6
Subject: 3rd world economies?
From: "Leslie Ter Morshuizen"
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 07:26:31 +0200
Hi
May I make a general invitation to the group that anyone wishing to witness
a 3rd world country in operation is welcome to visit me in South Africa.
The experience will be eye opening, and our currency vs the $ will make for
an inexpensive holiday. The reason for this statement is that there is
clearly a myth surrounding 3rd economies as to how these people live. Let
me reiterate what I have stated before: anyone in a truly 3rd world setting
wanting to raise fish and plants where 'at' the
goal is personal and community food production not profit' does not have
access to electricity, cash, or many of the assumed basics for any kind of
business plan. They are limited to production with their own hands as in
many cases they cannot afford cattle to pull ploughs, never mind a horse
which doesn't even give milk! If these people produce fish it is in tiny
ponds <100m2, which are fertilised with a little goat dung and vegetable
peelings. The only application of small scale, non-commercial aquaponics is
in developed regions amongst people who have the knowledge and finances to
establish and run a venture largely for pleasure.
Leslie
> that often coincides with the plant bed for roots. But it is not enough
for a
> sustained maximum production realized by other aquaculture techniques,
therefore
> not competitive and presumably only suitable for third world economies
where the
> goal is personal and community food production not profit. Not a matter of
> policy, more a case of the facts of life.
. .
| Message 7
Subject: Re: Bacteria Mediated Yada Yada in Aquaponic Media: Phosphorus
From: dreadlox
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 02:19:53 -0700
TGTX wrote:
>
> References: Microbial Ecology Fundamentals and Applications, by Atlas &
> Bartha, and Introduction to Soil Microbiology by Alexander
>
> The Phosphorus Cycle
>
> The biological availability of phosphorus is restricted by its tendency to
> precipitate in the presence of bivalent metals (Ca2+, Mg2+) and ferric
> (Fe+3) ions and neutral to alkaline pH.
>
--
Ted, any ideas why I could have a buildup of phosphorus in my wastewater
beds with no apparent phosphorus inputs?? Is it the fact that I am not
really doing any bed maintenance etc? (as in leaves falling and rotting
in the water?) Any ideas?
My nitrates are the easy ones to get rid of
><{{{*> Mike Barnett <*}}}><
JAMAICA, West Indies
. .
| Message 8
Subject: Iron / Phosphate Info.From: "Marc Laberge"
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 03:37:18 -0400
Wow Ted , Your posts are greatly appreciated, Thank You .
Marc Laberge
Mont Tremblant
Quebec , Canada
. .
| Message 9
Subject: Re: Stewardship
From: dreadlox
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 03:07:39 -0700
Hiromi Iwashige wrote:
>
> I appreciate Mike's reference to stewardship being a guiding principle
> in deciding what deserves our unqualified support.
For me, this
> insight has helped a lot in sifting through the most extreme
> expressions of environmentalism on the one hand and the excesses of
> materialism on the other. We might never get this one exactly right
> but I salute all of you who are trying to get it right.
--
Thank you. Sometimes when I post folks deep stuff
. imagine me with a
pensive look and a knitted forehead
. but most of the time I have a
smile on ma face
.lol.
It is in the vein of giving folks stuff for "sifting" that I post
"lateral" ideas, not necessarily because I ascribe to it. Sometimes I
can be cynical or sarcastic, just that folks really question
themselves. Lets face it some of us dont read anymore!! I started reading at 3
years old, and so I DEVOUR a lot of stuff, tons even, mainstream and as
Brent said divergent ideas
. well some of them anyways
.
Glad you found that interesting.
><{{{*> Mike Barnett <*}}}><
JAMAICA, West Indies
. .
| Message 10
Subject: Re: vortex filters / hydrocyclones
From: dreadlox
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 03:21:41 -0700
Arlos wrote:
>
> Ian,
>
> Did you design the vortex clarifier as a passive mechanism? This could be
> done similar to the shape of an hour glass with a fixed spiral to disturb
> the flow and cause as you mentioned, particulants like sand and solid debris
> to settle out. Please post any results with regard to fish waste.
>
> Arlos
--
Arlos ,
Looking at the two filters I described this morning was revealing. The
vortex took out most of the sediments and sand and heavier stuff, but
let the poop through, as it prolly was too light. it did however collect
a soup of algae laden water in the second tank.
The filter mesh concept
however primitive, was more effective in
removing the fines
Still fiddling
The site which inspired me.http://www.bahnhof.se/~grappo/metaphysics/Centripete.html
><{{{*> Mike Barnett <*}}}><
JAMAICA, West Indies
. .
| Message 11
Subject: Re: Conversion of BTU to Watts
From: "Attie Esterhuyse"
Date: 24 Aug 2001 10:36:16 +0200
Try this program. http://www.joshmadison.com/software/convert/
Attie
. .
| Message 12
Subject: Re: cut and snip
From: "gutierrez-lagatta"
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 03:38:29 -0500
If you hold down the left button on your mouse and drag you can
highlight entire sections of the original text that you want to
delete. Once it's highlighted, type Backspace or Delete to remove it
from the screen.
> Help please, I am wearing out my back key to remove text. I
need a
> short course on trimming.
. .
| Message 13
Subject: Wind power
From: "Attie Esterhuyse"
Date: 24 Aug 2001 13:26:01 +0200
I could find the efficiency of a wind driven airlift pump system. I could not
find anything on the efficiency of a system where electricity is generated by a
wind turbine, stored in a battery bank and thereafter used to drive the electric
motor of a water pump. The electrical system looks a lot more complex with a lot
of losses that will occur. Does anyone have an idea of the efficiency of such a
system? Component costs is another unknown.
Attie
Record 1 of 1 - Applied Sci&Technol Abst 1/96-4/01
TITLE: Performance of a wind-turbine-driven compressor for lifting water
PERSONAL AUTHOR: Abed,-K.-A
SOURCE: Energy (Oxford, England) v 22 Jan 1997 p. 21-6
ABSTRACT: Energy storage is important for renewable energy systems. Compressed
air storage is an attractive alternative to pumped water storage. It is
suitable for use with wind-energy systems. We have studied a system consisting
of a wind turbine, compressor, storage tank, and air-lift pump. The output
power and capacity factor were accurately determined. Characteristics of the
air-lift pump were investigated by using a numerical model. Wind turbines with
compressed air storage and capacity factors greater than 40% are feasible with
air-lift pumps. With air-lift pumps, increases of air-flow rates were
accompanied by corresponding increases in water-flow rates, up to maximum
outputs. The efficiency of the system reaches 22% when the ratio of water to
air flow rate equals 2.15 and decreases thereafter. Copyright 1997, Pergamon
Press Ltd.
DESCRIPTORS: Wind-turbines; Pumping-stations-Power; Air-compressors
. .
| Message 14
Subject: Re: Home brew filters.From: Ian Franzmann
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 22:23:15 +1000
Hi Mike
Second attempt for this post.
Vortex clarifier for the hard bits that don't want to disolve and clog up
grow beds and biofilters.
Mike said
>I would be glad to hear from you all how you have tackled home brew
>filtration, no RBC (rotating bio contactors or filters
)
The design math involved in tuning the vortex dimensions to a particular
flow and function is beyond me so I have approached it intuitively. eg.
stab in the dark throw the ruines/bones etc.
The dimensions for the unit I have built if people are interested are a PVC
tube Height 2M X Dia .25M (would have made it larger 300mm but could not
afford it)
Top inflow is 200L/minute (has to be this rate to keep the vortex at 2M
height) filtered water is passively taken off one third from the bottom.
The residue is trapped in the lower third and allowed to settle during the
recirc pump rest cycle into a 1M X 50mm tube and tapped off when necessary,
a clear tube here would be best for easy checking. The above dimensions
were confined to what was available off the hardware shop shelf, different
dimensions will need to be met for the size and flow of your system. My
total Tank volume is 13,500L and can be turned over every hour but I will
initially use only 7000L in the tank. The recirc pumpflow rate determines
the Vortex unit size/shape.
The Unit works very effectivly with construction residue and organic
materials that have fallen in the system it's next to a 25M flowering mango
tree. Fish residue that is solid is yet to be tested.
Also check which way the water spins down your sinks Etc. Go with nature
make the water vortex spin this way. There are a number of reasons for this
from a previous post from Mark.
Hope this is helpful.
Ian
. .
| Message 15
Subject: Re:Economy of Scale
From: Carolyn Hoagland
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 07:36:40 -0500
Brent wrote,
>A horse does not use diesel and they do not pay
>each other the rate we think is a living wage.
>There are not enough horses in the entire world
>to raise just the wheat produced in our USA mid west.
I think that's the whole point. The Amish farmer is willing to let a
big portion of his "wheat field" stay in permanent pasture to maintain
the horses. He feels no burden to grow wheat for "the hungry
billions." Those huge, cheaply produced, federally subsidized midwest
wheat crops are the reason the "the hungry billions" exist!
http://www.ishmael.com/Education/Writings/technology_and_other_war.shtml
The only thing unsustainable about the Amish is their large family
size. They grow more kids than needed to replace the original farm
owners, so they (like almost all farmers) need more land.
I wonder if a sustainable aquaponics operation will need to let a big
part of the "production fish pond" be set aside for duckweed, fly
maggots, daphnia, etc
. so that the production fish can be fed with
on farm inputs.
I understand this is not everyone's goal. (but it's mine
.)
Carolyn
. .
| Message 16
Subject: Re: Wind power
From: "Dorothy Mann"
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 08:52:19 -0500
I do not have any direct information but there was a segment on the news
last night ( CBS I think) about wind turbines being used to generate power
for the grid in a small town in West Texas ( where the oil is depleted).
Some in the state can choose to use 'green power'. I think there is more
recent research out there but I am not sure where to look.
Good Luck
Becky Hines
----- Original Message -----
From: "Attie Esterhuyse"
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 6:26 AM
Subject: Wind power
> I could find the efficiency of a wind driven airlift pump system. I could
not
> find anything on the efficiency of a system where electricity is generated
by a
> wind turbine, stored in a battery bank and thereafter used to drive the
electric
> motor of a water pump. The electrical system looks a lot more complex with
a lot
> of losses that will occur. Does anyone have an idea of the efficiency of
such a
> system? Component costs is another unknown.
>
> Attie
>
>
> Record 1 of 1 - Applied Sci&Technol Abst 1/96-4/01
>
> TITLE: Performance of a wind-turbine-driven compressor for lifting water
> PERSONAL AUTHOR: Abed,-K.-A
> SOURCE: Energy (Oxford, England) v 22 Jan 1997 p. 21-6
> ABSTRACT: Energy storage is important for renewable energy systems.
Compressed
> air storage is an attractive alternative to pumped water storage. It is
> suitable for use with wind-energy systems. We have studied a system
consisting
> of a wind turbine, compressor, storage tank, and air-lift pump. The
output
> power and capacity factor were accurately determined. Characteristics of
the
> air-lift pump were investigated by using a numerical model. Wind turbines
with
> compressed air storage and capacity factors greater than 40% are feasible
with
> air-lift pumps. With air-lift pumps, increases of air-flow rates were
> accompanied by corresponding increases in water-flow rates, up to maximum
> outputs. The efficiency of the system reaches 22% when the ratio of water
to
> air flow rate equals 2.15 and decreases thereafter. Copyright 1997,
Pergamon
> Press Ltd.
> DESCRIPTORS: Wind-turbines; Pumping-stations-Power; Air-compressors
>
>
>
. .
| Message 17
Subject: Re: Conversion of BTU to Watts
From: Andrei Calciu
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:58:00 -0400
Here is the best conversion place on Earth, online that is.
http://www.onlineconversion.com/
-_______________
Andrei D. Calciu (VA-4270)
NEC America, Inc.
14040 Park Center Dr.
Herndon, VA 20171-3227
Voice: 703-834-4273
Fax: 703-787-6613
This message and any attachment are confidential. If you are not the
intended recipient, please telephone or email the sender and delete the
message and any attachment from your system. If you are not the intended
recipient you must not copy this message or attachment or disclose the
contents to any other person.
. .
| Message 18
Subject: Re: Aquaponics operation
From: Andrei Calciu
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 10:00:05 -0400
I do not want to confuse the issue too much. I have limited experience with
the aquaponics setup because, like you, I am a greenhorn, however, I am a
trained book-worm, so I always do my homework before embarking into any
large scale venture. I read, analyzed, designed and tweaked everything in
theory for about a year before I started my first setup.
Half a pound per gallon is an average number that seems to work for most
controlled environment setups. If you go to ponds outside, then the density
drops by about 90% to less than 0.1 per gallon. There are experiments
indoor that have gone higher than 0.5 pounds per gallon, but those are
research type setups where fish are coddled daily by the lab assistants. In
real life 0.5 pounds is great if you can maintain it.
The harvest weight of 2 pounds is ideal for high end fillets, but you can
get marketable size fillets with fish about 1.5 pounds or larger. Less than
1.5 pounds yields crappy little fillets that nobody will pay for so the
fish might as well be sold whole (live).
-_______________
Andrei D. Calciu (VA-4270)
NEC America, Inc.
14040 Park Center Dr.
Herndon, VA 20171-3227
Voice: 703-834-4273
Fax: 703-787-6613
This message and any attachment are confidential. If you are not the
intended recipient, please telephone or email the sender and delete the
message and any attachment from your system. If you are not the intended
recipient you must not copy this message or attachment or disclose the
contents to any other person.
. .
| Message 19
Subject: Re: Artemia cysts
From: "Arlos"
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 07:15:35 -0700
Leslie,
Last time I purchased them, cost per pound were about $35 (US) if memory
serves without digging out records. A pound last about a year and I still
have about 4 oz. left. I use them as juvenile feed and harvest them right
after hatching. I've found also using rotifers gives a fairly balanced diet
with lo mortality rate.
Arlos
-----Original Message-----
From: Leslie Ter Morshuizen
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Date: Thursday, August 23, 2001 11:31 PM
Subject: Re: Artemia cysts
>Hi Arlos
>
>Thanks. I have done the same, getting mine directly from several sources
at
>the lake, but the prices have gone up and the value of our currency down
>relative to the $, so I am looking for the least expensive option. What do
>you pay per dozen 1lbs tins?
>
>Thanks again,
> Leslie
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Arlos
>
>Sent: Thursday, 23 August, 2001 1:40 PM
>Subject: Re: Artemia cysts
>
>
>> Lesle,
>>
>> I buy mine directly from a company in Salt lake City, Utah called ,
>> "Aquatic Lifeline Inc". They can be reached
>at;http://www.ali-artemia.com/.
>> I've found virtually all of the cysts to be viable.
>>
>> Arlos
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Leslie Ter Morshuizen
>> To: Aquaponics
>> Date: Thursday, August 23, 2001 1:12 AM
>> Subject: Artemia cysts
>>
>>
>> >Hi all
>> >
>> >Can any of you recommend a source of artemia cysts that is reasonably
>> >priced?
>> >
>> >Thanks,
>> > Leslie
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
. .
| Message 20
Subject: Re: Aquaponic Tomatoes in Wisconsin?
From: Carolyn Hoagland
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:36:38 -0500
Wow, the digest version of the list is so big, it's like drinking out
of a fire hose! Anyway, I believe I read a day or two ago that Steve
is planning/hoping to raise *heirloom tomatoes* in the winter in
Wisconsin. Is that right? It sounds like a risky venture to me
!!!I apologize in advance for sticking my nose into your business!!!
Why heirloom tomatoes? I know they bring a big price, but aren't they
unsuited to aquaponics in general (need more nutrients), and really
difficult to grow in cool, low light conditions? Wisconsin has *a lot
less light* in the winter than other "winter tomato growing" regions
like the N.E. US. OK List members, help me out here, am I wrong?
I used to live in the midwest, and I seem to remember every living
green thing was outrageously expensive in the winter. So how about an
"easy" crop for your first winter of production, say like spinach, or
lettuce, which are known to thrive on aquaponic nutrients, and like a
cooler greenhouse? You could still set aside a small testing area for
tomatoes to indulge your curiosity, and dramatically reduce your risk.
Cornell already has a handbook that can tell you quite a bit about
this:
http://www.bee.cornell.edu/extension/CEA/handbook_home.htm
The handbooks are based upon hydroponics, but my understanding is that
leafy green things respond very well to the aquaponic nutrients. The
UVI site confirms this.
Carolyn (who hasn't done it, but still can't help offering advice)
Hoagland
P.S. I used to run a bedding plant greenhouse, and one winter we had a
lot more cloud cover than usual. Although the green house was warm,
most of the warm season plants just sat there and wouldn't grow (or
worse, they got leggy). Warm season plants like tomatoes need light.
. .
| Message 21
Subject: Re: vortex filters
From: Carolyn Hoagland
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:43:27 -0500
So Mike,
Did you find that the green goop is heavier than the water? (It spun
to the outside and slid down the vortex? We all look forward to the
pictures
Carolyn
. .
| Message 22
Subject: Re: Home brew filters.From: "Arlos"
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 07:45:09 -0700
Ian,
I eat math for breakfast. I'm going to tackle this soon. I've been playing
with a vortex that sort of resembles a rocket nozzle in reverse. Every step
you can take away from use of active mechanics is one less wasted watt or
Btu.
Anyone with access to an eddy in a river, check the surround rocks and if
possible look at the deposits below. Its just a matter of how you disrupt
the stream. nature has already managed to build a pretty efficient vortex we
just have to center the energy and drop out suspended material. My personal
challenge is to drop oxidized iron from a stream after contact with ozone
without the use of mechanical filtration or at least reduced.
Arlos
-----Original Message-----
From: Ian Franzmann
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Date: Friday, August 24, 2001 5:20 AM
Subject: Re: Home brew filters.
>Hi Mike
>Second attempt for this post.
>
>Vortex clarifier for the hard bits that don't want to disolve and clog up
>grow beds and biofilters.
>
>Mike said
>>I would be glad to hear from you all how you have tackled home brew
>>filtration, no RBC (rotating bio contactors or filters
)
>
>The design math involved in tuning the vortex dimensions to a particular
>flow and function is beyond me so I have approached it intuitively. eg.
>stab in the dark throw the ruines/bones etc.
>
>The dimensions for the unit I have built if people are interested are a PVC
>tube Height 2M X Dia .25M (would have made it larger 300mm but could not
>afford it)
>Top inflow is 200L/minute (has to be this rate to keep the vortex at 2M
>height) filtered water is passively taken off one third from the bottom.
>The residue is trapped in the lower third and allowed to settle during the
>recirc pump rest cycle into a 1M X 50mm tube and tapped off when necessary,
>a clear tube here would be best for easy checking. The above dimensions
>were confined to what was available off the hardware shop shelf, different
>dimensions will need to be met for the size and flow of your system. My
>total Tank volume is 13,500L and can be turned over every hour but I will
>initially use only 7000L in the tank. The recirc pumpflow rate determines
>the Vortex unit size/shape.
>
>The Unit works very effectivly with construction residue and organic
>materials that have fallen in the system it's next to a 25M flowering mango
>tree. Fish residue that is solid is yet to be tested.
>
>Also check which way the water spins down your sinks Etc. Go with nature
>make the water vortex spin this way. There are a number of reasons for this
>from a previous post from Mark.
>
>Hope this is helpful.
>Ian
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
. .
| Message 23
Subject: Re: Conversion of BTU to Watts
From: "Dorothy Mann"
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 10:56:54 -0500
Converted cubic feet to US gallons-
Very cool-
Becky Hines
----- Original Message -----
From:
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 8:58 AM
Subject: Re: Conversion of BTU to Watts
>
> Here is the best conversion place on Earth, online that is.
>
> http://www.onlineconversion.com/
>
> -_______________
> Andrei D. Calciu (VA-4270)
> NEC America, Inc.
> 14040 Park Center Dr.
> Herndon, VA 20171-3227
>
> Voice: 703-834-4273
> Fax: 703-787-6613
>
> This message and any attachment are confidential. If you are not the
> intended recipient, please telephone or email the sender and delete the
> message and any attachment from your system. If you are not the intended
> recipient you must not copy this message or attachment or disclose the
> contents to any other person.
>
>
>
. .
| Message 24
Subject: Re: Aquaponics for beliefs sake??
From: "Brent Bingham"
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 08:48:51 -0700
Several hundred years ago the miners noticed a strange thing taking place in
the mines.
As the drinking water went down in to the mine the water that got trapped in
it game
out under great pressure. A black smith placed a steam line from the high
pressure
air to a piston from a locomotive. He found he could pump more water back up
out of the mine than was bringing in the air. Flooded mines that were not
economical to dewater became workable. Any one with falling water on there
property
or a dry well can create high pressure air. This "lost" idea will be put
back in use to
generate electricity on a large scale in old mines in AZ and Mexico this
year. You
can pump water up into storage tanks and have "stored energy" to do a lot of
work
with out motors and batteries. There is a place for the electric motors and
batteries
but you can get by with out them if your had to. The energy in the falling
water is
or can be almost any form of power, only your imagination is holding you
back.
You can; ventilate a greenhouse, cool it, pump solutions, generate
electricity, is
there any end to what the mind can conceive?
Brent
----- Original Message -----
From:
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 11:13 PM
Subject: Re: Aquaponics for beliefs sake??
> Brent Bingham wrote:
> >
> > If you are in an area with wind you can pump water with low pressure
air.
> > Build a wind air pump and inject air into a 1" pipe submerged in water.
> SNIP
>
> --
> Thanks Brent.
SNIP
> it in such a way that the double pulley could either be wind powered or
> MOTOR (electric) driven at nights.>
> PLlease give me some more of this!! This is the kind of thing that gets
> me going!!! :> And no Leslie
. no sexually!! Smile
.:>
> ><{{{*> Mike Barnett <*}}}><
> JAMAICA, West Indies
>
. .
| Message 25
Subject: Re: Aquaponics for beliefs sake??
From: Andrei Calciu
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 11:44:20 -0400
Brent,
I cannot envision the setup you describe. Can you please expand on your
last message with the water, the well, the piston, etc.
-_______________
Andrei D. Calciu (VA-4270)
NEC America, Inc.
14040 Park Center Dr.
Herndon, VA 20171-3227
Voice: 703-834-4273
Fax: 703-787-6613
This message and any attachment are confidential. If you are not the
intended recipient, please telephone or email the sender and delete the
message and any attachment from your system. If you are not the intended
recipient you must not copy this message or attachment or disclose the
contents to any other person.
. .
| Message 26
Subject: Re: Aquaponics vs distinct fish & plant systems
From: "Brent Bingham"
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:08:13 -0700
ADM has done it for years.
Brent
----- Original Message -----
From: "Leslie Ter Morshuizen"
To: "Aquaponics"
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 11:29 PM
Subject: Aquaponics vs distinct fish & plant systems
> Hi all
>
> A limitation of aquaponics appears to be that the optimal nutrient levels
> for plants greatly exceed the tolerance levels for most fish species, and
> the ideal nutrient levels for fish hardly support plants. If this is the
> case, should we not be looking at a system whereby the waste from a number
> of fish tanks is removed from the system at the point at which it is
> concentrated prior to the biofilters. This can be done intermittently or
> continuously. This nutrient rich waste then leaves the system in which
the
> fish are being raised and is used on a hydroponic plant system. The
> benefits are that the nutrient levels in the two systems will each be
better
> suited to the culture species than by including both in a single system.
>
> Comments?
>
> Leslie
>
>
>
>
. .
| Message 27
Subject: Re: Aquaponics vs distinct fish & plant systems
From: "Robert Rogers"
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 12:25:17 -0400
Brent;
Do you have any knowledge of their system, not trying to steal any
secrets just trying to learn.
Bob
> ADM has done it for years.
> Brent
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Leslie Ter Morshuizen"
> To: "Aquaponics"
> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 11:29 PM
> Subject: Aquaponics vs distinct fish & plant systems
>
>
> > Hi all
> >
> > A limitation of aquaponics appears to be that the optimal nutrient
levels
> > for plants greatly exceed the tolerance levels for most fish species,
and
. .
| Message 28
Subject: Re: Re:Economy of Scale
From: "Brent Bingham"
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:40:17 -0700
Yes Carolyn,
There is a very large group of us in a world wide effort doing just what you
want to do. It is practical and sustainable. You must think in a circle like
a spoked wheel, where each waste feeds the next step. It is Zero discharge
farming. There is no waste to get rid of only feed stock to the next step.
The procedures are being used and taught in many 3 world countries if are
not shooting at us. I sniped this but it did not make since so I put it
back. The list should take note there is $$$$$ in what in what some are
dumping. Zero discharge works.
Brent
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carolyn Hoagland"
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 5:36 AM
Subject: Re:Economy of Scale
> Brent wrote,
> >A horse does not use diesel and they do not pay
> >each other the rate we think is a living wage.
> >There are not enough horses in the entire world
> >to raise just the wheat produced in our USA mid west.
>
> I think that's the whole point. The Amish farmer is willing to let a
> big portion of his "wheat field" stay in permanent pasture to maintain
> the horses. He feels no burden to grow wheat for "the hungry
> billions." Those huge, cheaply produced, federally subsidized midwest
> wheat crops are the reason the "the hungry billions" exist!
> http://www.ishmael.com/Education/Writings/technology_and_other_war.shtml
>
> The only thing unsustainable about the Amish is their large family
> size. They grow more kids than needed to replace the original farm
> owners, so they (like almost all farmers) need more land.
>
> I wonder if a sustainable aquaponics operation will need to let a big
> part of the "production fish pond" be set aside for duckweed, fly
> maggots, daphnia, etc
. so that the production fish can be fed with
> on farm inputs.
>
> I understand this is not everyone's goal. (but it's mine
.)
> Carolyn
>
. .
| Message 29
Subject: RE: Wind power
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 11:38:46 -0500
I could find the efficiency of a wind driven airlift pump system. I could
not
find anything on the efficiency of a system where electricity is generated
by a
wind turbine, stored in a battery bank and thereafter used to drive the
electric
motor of a water pump. The electrical system looks a lot more complex with a
lot
of losses that will occur. Does anyone have an idea of the efficiency of
such a
system? Component costs is another unknown.
Attie
Attie,
I will check into this further this weekend but you might try checking with
the
folks at www.homepower.com or maybe www.bergey.com
.they may have some
numbers
for you. Wind energy isn't for everyone because of towers, wind conditions
etc.
but it is being pushed hard in windy states like Texas. A critical factor
in
the economics of any of these alternative systems here in the US is the net
metering laws that would potentially allow systems to pay for themselves.
In
Minnesota there is a dairy operation providing enough energy for 78 homes.
We
need to keep on our state legislatures. A lot of progress has been made
this
year. The Department of Energy has a lot of info too.
mark
. .
| Message 30
Subject: Re: Aquaponics for beliefs sake??
From: "Brent Bingham"
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 10:20:48 -0700
The idea is to start a column of water falling down a pipe
and introducing air into the water. As the water goes down the pipe it
compresses the deeper it goes. Some air dissolves but not enough to stop the
process. At the bottom a separation box allows the air and water to part.
The water returns to the surface a little below the elevation it interred in
a separate pipe. The compressed is at the bottom to be used do almost
anything. The energy
stored in the compressed air is greater than the change in
the elevation of the water so the water could be elevated and reused. In
fact the water was allowed to return down stream in the old systems. In
areas of water shortages the water was reused being elevated in a number of
natural ways. There were a number a patents on the separator boxes from many
years ago. It works because
it is nearly a closed loop for the water. Several methods
were developed to keep the water from entering the air storage chamber at
the bottom of the mine when more air was used than produced. The best
systems used deep mines with side shafts to get rid of the water deeper
into the system. I hope this made it clear.
Brent.
to its source
----- Original Message -----
From:
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 8:44 AM
Subject: Re: Aquaponics for beliefs sake??
>
> Brent,
>
> I cannot envision the setup you describe. Can you please expand on your
> last message with the water, the well, the piston, etc.
>
> -_______________
> Andrei D. Calciu (VA-4270)
> NEC America, Inc.
> 14040 Park Center Dr.
> Herndon, VA 20171-3227
>
> Voice: 703-834-4273
> Fax: 703-787-6613
>
> This message and any attachment are confidential. If you are not the
> intended recipient, please telephone or email the sender and delete the
> message and any attachment from your system. If you are not the intended
> recipient you must not copy this message or attachment or disclose the
> contents to any other person.
>
>
>
. .
| Message 31
Subject: Re: Aquaponics vs distinct fish & plant systems
From: "Brent Bingham"
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 10:27:59 -0700
Yes,
It has been adapted to be used in low Tec. farming systems for 3 world
countries.
Brent
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Rogers"
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 9:25 AM
Subject: Re: Aquaponics vs distinct fish & plant systems
> Brent;
> Do you have any knowledge of their system, not trying to steal any
> secrets just trying to learn.
> Bob
>
>
> > ADM has done it for years.
> > Brent
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Leslie Ter Morshuizen"
> > To: "Aquaponics"
> > Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 11:29 PM
> > Subject: Aquaponics vs distinct fish & plant systems
> >
> >
> > > Hi all
> > >
> > > A limitation of aquaponics appears to be that the optimal nutrient
> levels
> > > for plants greatly exceed the tolerance levels for most fish species,
> and
>
>
>
>
. .
| Message 32
Subject: RE: Economy of scale
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 12:50:07 -0500
>There are not enough horses in the entire world to raise just
the wheat produced in our USA mid west.
Hi Brent,
I enjoyed your post about amish country. Being from the midwest
I get to see a lot of that and enjoy it very much.
I wasn't suggesting people farm by amish methods
.Joel Salatin
doesn't
I was just suggesting that there is a lot of merit in
many of their principles. Working together, community, land
stewardship, minimizing debt etc
I mention Joel Salatin so much
because his methods work
.he is profitable and his land has been
enriched by his methods
.not depleted. His methods are within
reach of those who cannot afford all the equipment, the fuel, the
pesticides (chickens are his pesticide
.none better), etc
.his
methods follow nature closely but are far from amish.
"Getting in sync with natural processes completely changes the
bottom line. So we calve when the deer are fawning, grow chickens
in the spring while wild turkeys and grouse are raising their babies.
By simply mimicking what nature does, we save money and generate
thousands of dollars a year in revenue. It's amazing how creative
farmers can be at spending money in the wrong places."
One thing you have to remember when you mention wheat is over half of
our grain goes into livestock production
.not directly to humans.and cows don't even need grain. This is VERY inefficient use of our
resources. This is from Cornell University.---
>From one Cornell ecologist's perspective, the American system of farming
grain-fed livestock consumes resources far out of proportion to the yield,
accelerates soil erosion, affects world food supply and will be changing in
the future.
"If all the grain currently fed to livestock in the United States were
consumed directly by people, the number of people who could be fed would be
nearly 800 million," David Pimentel, professor of ecology in the College of
Agriculture and Life Sciences, reported at the July 24-26 meeting of the
Canadian Society of Animal Science in Montreal. Or, if those grains were
exported, it would boost the U.S. trade balance by $80 billion a year,
Pimentel estimated.
With only grass-fed livestock, individual Americans would still get more
than the recommended daily allowance (RDA) of meat and dairy protein,
according to Pimentel's report, "Livestock Production: Energy Inputs and the
Environment."
An environmental analyst and longtime critic of waste and inefficiency in
agricultural practices, Pimentel depicted grain-fed livestock farming as a
costly and nonsustainable way to produce animal protein. He distinguished
grain-fed meat production from pasture-raised livestock, calling
cattle-grazing a more reasonable use of marginal land.
Animal protein production requires more than eight times as much fossil-fuel
energy than production of plant protein, while yielding animal protein that
is only 1.4 times more nutritious for humans than the comparable amount of
plant protein, according to Pimentel's analysis.
Tracking food animal production from the feed trough to the dinner table,
Pimentel found broiler chickens to be the most efficient use of fossil-fuel
energy, and beef, the least. Chicken meat production consumes energy in a
4:1 ratio to protein output; beef cattle production requires an energy input
to protein output ratio of 54:1. (Lamb meat production is nearly as
inefficient at 50:1, according to the ecologist's analysis of U.S.
Department of Agriculture statistics. Other ratios range from 13:1 for
turkey meat and 14:1 for milk protein to 17:1 for pork and 26:1 for eggs.)
-----
One note
.this researcher didn't look at rabbits I don't think.
We talked about them and their place in all of this
.very efficient
animals. So my take is, we produce way too much grain already at a huge
cost to our resources. I miss seeing those black angus out grazing on
green pasture as the sun rises. My ideal farm would have pastures, ponds,
chickens filling up on the bugs and producing eggs in the process. We
have grown to think we need so much 'stuff' to farm
but we don't. Nature
has her own system
.it works if we can learn to work with it.
take care everyone,
mark
. .
| Message 33
Subject: Free floating algae problem
From: Bagelhole1 'at' aol.com
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 14:07:42 EDT
Dear Brother and Sister Aquaponicuzzins,
Hi, I love the feeling of this list serve, the best, I've seen. I'm
struggling with my "verticle aquaponics", still haven't got it all right, but
I haven't given up. I've solved the ammonium nitrite problem, but now free
floating algae is murking up the water and I have no solution. Any ideas? I
get alot of direct sunlight, have a black pond liner. Its a rectangular
raceway with a walkway in the middle, that you step over the water to get to.
Its about 1500 cu. gallons, about 2 feet deep. I'm trying to keep things
simple as possible, because I want this to be a prototype for third world
people.
Mine is a part of a not for profit project, www.bagelhole.org.
Thanks in advance,
Tom
. .
| Message 34
Subject: RE: Profitibality of aquaponics ??
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 13:05:38 -0500
Hi gang,
This is great thread and an important one for those making
it a business. Some good points have been brought out. I like
what Arlos said about conserving as many watts as possible
with passive systems. Leslie made a good point about the lack
of nutrient concentration for some crops
.others brought up
great points as well.
I think as with any venture certain rules apply
.keeping start-up
costs low (do we need expensive tanks or can I make a ferrocement one with
chicken wire and concrete
.or use a pool as Bruce once did)?.controlling operating costs using things like waste oil (thanks
for all the info here, Brent) instead of propane, or better yet
heat passively if we live where we can
maximize profits through
value adding, educating the market on healthy foods, create other
revenue streams (my goal here is in redworm and larvae production).
we have to be creative but it can and is being done
.best wishes
to all.
mark
. .
| Message 35
Subject: Re: Free floating algae problem
From: dreadlox
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 15:13:20 -0700
Bagelhole1 'at' aol.com wrote:
>
> Dear Brother and Sister Aquaponicuzzins,
>
still haven't got it all right, but
> I haven't given up. I've solved the ammonium nitrite problem, but now free
> floating algae is murking up the water and I have no solution. Any ideas?
>
Tom ,
Glad to see you this side of the millenium and that you still havent
given up. Matbe if you describe what type of algae EXACTLY you have we
may be better able to help. Is it the hairy type, the matted hair type,
the slimy thready type the "cloudy green" water type
.? U know.
I just did a post on a little vortex thingy
. maybe depeding on your
setup you could be using one like this, or even just filter screens.
Let us know more
.!
Regards
your cousin brother
><{{{*> Mike Barnett <*}}}><
JAMAICA, West Indies
. .
| Message 36
Subject: Re: Free floating algae problem
From: "Brent Bingham"
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 14:22:11 -0700
One of our men came up with a skimmer which pulls the floaters off the tanks
and drags it to one of the fish tanks
----- Original Message -----
From:
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 11:07 AM
Subject: Free floating algae problem
> Dear Brother and Sister Aquaponicuzzins,>
snip
floating algae is murking up the water and I have no solution. Any ideas?
snip
I gelhole.org.
> Thanks in advance,
> Tom
>
. .
| Message 37
Subject: Reclaiming nutrients
From: "Brent Bingham"
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 16:20:33 -0700
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
=_NextPart_000_04D8_01C12CB8.B3574490
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
We have landed all around this topic but never seem to actually land on =
it. Why do it? Is it worth doing? Can it be done? We can add to the =
????. Is anyone doing it now? I know some of us cannot dump due to local =
codes.=20
I have a bias towards recycling everything even if the bureaucrats do =
not require
it. there is a good chance the larger setups will face it at some point. =
I wanted to get out front to play with it before it is required. In =
marginally profitable systems it could be a money saver.=20
I get referred too around the farm as a "doom and glummer "by always =
asking what if . I am not trying to cut any one out of selling plant =
food.
What if we could not get what we need in a timely manner would we make =
do?
Years ago I trained to be an analytic chemist at the mine so my mind =
turns to high Tec options to easily. If we all had the equipment we =
could add a drop of this or spoon full of that the keep optimum =
nutrient levels circulating in our systems. Short of that is there any =
options.
I had a reverse osmoses unit that was to small for the domestic =
drinking water so we have played at concentrating weak solutions. I know =
some on the list know of molecular sieves ( filters ) that can select =
or filter by type of element or molecule. Plants make good filters and =
some on the list have brought up some of the good ones that can be used =
as feed. There are many more, some are better for other types of animals =
than others. If we all start thinking about integrated systems that are =
outside of the box we consider our comfort zone we may surprise =
ourselves. What do you throw away or waste?
Brent
=_NextPart_000_04D8_01C12CB8.B3574490
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
We have landed all around this topic =
but never seem=20
to actually land on it. Why do it? Is it worth doing? Can it be done? We =
can add=20
to the ????. Is anyone doing it now? I know some of us cannot dump due =
to local=20
codes.
I have a bias towards recycling =
everything even if=20
the bureaucrats do not require
it. there is a good chance the larger =
setups will=20
face it at some point. I wanted to get out front to play with it before =
it is=20
required. In marginally profitable systems it could be a money =
saver.=20
I get referred too around the farm as a =
"doom and=20
glummer "by always asking what if . I am not trying to cut any one out =
of=20
selling plant food.
What if we could not get what we need =
in a timely=20
manner would we make do?
Years ago I trained to be an analytic =
chemist at=20
the mine so my mind turns to high Tec options to easily. If we all had =
the=20
equipment we could add a drop of this or spoon full of that the =
keep=20
optimum nutrient levels circulating in our systems. Short of that is =
there any=20
options.
I had a reverse osmoses =
unit that was=20
to small for the domestic drinking water so we have played at =
concentrating=20
weak solutions. I know some on the list know of molecular =
sieves (=20
filters ) that can select or filter by type of element or molecule. =
Plants=20
make good filters and some on the list have brought up some of the good =
ones=20
that can be used as feed. There are many more, some are better for other =
types=20
of animals than others. If we all start thinking about integrated =
systems that=20
are outside of the box we consider our comfort zone we may surprise =
ourselves.=20
What do you throw away or waste?
Brent
=_NextPart_000_04D8_01C12CB8.B3574490--
. .
| Message 38
Subject: reality marketing
From: Carolyn Hoagland
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 18:26:11 -0500
Andrei Wrote:
> Ideal setup.
>
> 1.- pond and greenhouse operation with multiple tanks feeding multiple
> plant trays for both fish and veggie or flower production
> 2.- wholesale operation for live fish sales
> 3.- wholesale operation for plant sales (both veggies and flowers)
> 4.- integrated fish mongering operation (cut, gut, fillet, chill, freeze)
> 5.- integrated plant operation (non-retailable vegetables turned into
> sauces, etc)
> 6.- retail operation for veggies and products from item 5, above.
> 7.- marketing operation to support all the prior stuff.
>
> Realistic setup
> 1.- greenhouse operation with multiple tanks feeding multiple plant trays
> for both fish and veggie or flower production
> 2.- fish sales (live and fillets)
> 3.- plant sales (both veggies and flowers)
> 4.- family consumption
> 5.- roadside fruit-stand
> 6.- marketing when having time to breathe
>
> Now, that we have all this laid out. The assumptions can begin.
Can you really be successful if you leave the marketing till last? In
the midwest, we could just harvest the corn, and know that we could
sell it at the local elevator at market price that day, depending on
the moisture level in the grain. (then if we thought the price would
go up, we'd buy a future's contract with the money we made) It was a
huge relief to just worry about the production side. (Very different
from my greenhouse business where I spent 40% of my time on getting
retail customers in the door!) Are there some wholesale markets that
will take whatever fish you bring them, whenever you bring them, and
pay you market price that day? Maybe in the bigger cities, or if you
live near a processing a plant?
Carolyn Hoagland
. .
| Message 39
Subject: Re: reality marketing
From: "Brent Bingham"
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 16:41:22 -0700
It is the old , location location location problem so, no! We went to a
system where they stock fish in a private lake for campers to catch by the
pound. They also have a family style restaurant that will cook it for you or
they will serve something they caught. All there camp spaces were full and
there was a line to be seated to eat. They had live fish in tanks at many of
the markets so you can pick out your own to take home. They cut out the
middle man as much as possible.
Brent
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carolyn Hoagland"
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 4:26 PM
Subject: reality marketing
> Andrei Wrote:
> > Ideal setup.
> >
> snip
> Can you really be successful if you leave the marketing till last? In
> the midwest, we could just harvest the corn, and know that we could
> Carolyn Hoagland
>
. .
| Message 40
Subject: Re: reality marketing
From: Mick
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 20:47:46 -0500
Are there some wholesale markets that
> will take whatever fish you bring them, whenever you bring them, and
> pay you market price that day? Maybe in the bigger cities, or if you
> live near a processing a plant?
>
> Carolyn Hoagland
---Carolyn,
I've talked to two tilapia farmers in South/Central Texas. One has a
wholesaler from the valley that comes to his farm on a regular route and picks
up his fish. The second was bought out by a wholesale fish dealer from
Houston.
The first farmer only sells to the wholesaler from the valley.
The second farmer (who stayed on to run the place after the buyout) sells any
extra fish that the wholesale parent company doesn't require on the local
market to restaurants.
Both said the price a wholesaler will pay will barely allow you to stay in
business. It's less than half of what you can sell live tilapia to
restaurants.
Cities that have a farmer's market for local growers to bring their produce
often have a fish market too. I have no experience with how this works but I
would imagine if one kept a spot at a fish market there would be various
logistic problems in keeping the fish alive for sale. If filleted, you have
temperature and hygiene concerns.
Mick
|
