Aquaponics Digest - Fri 08/31/01



Message   1: Re: costs and competition and quality
             from "Leslie Ter Morshuizen" 

Message   2: RE: costs and competition and quality
             from "Mark Allen Wells" 

Message   3: Lightsmith
             from "Marc Laberge" 

Message   4: lightsmith cont'd.             from "Marc Laberge" 

Message   5: RE: costs and competition/ Be warned 
LONG!!
             from "Mark Allen Wells" 

Message   6: Re: Lightsmith
             from LC543119

Message   7: Re: costs and competition/ Be warned 
LONG!!
             from LC543119

Message   8: Re: Water level sensor
             from Ian Franzmann 

Message   9: Re: Water level sensor
             from Ian Franzmann 

Message  10: Re: More vortex questions
             from Ian Franzmann 

Message  11: Specific Gravity of Algae
             from "TGTX" 

Message  12: Re: costs and competition/ Be warned 
LONG!!
             from "Arlos" 

Message  13: Re: costs and competition and quality
             from Arlus Farnsworth 

Message  14: Re: Solviva Greenhouse type setup
             from "Brent Bingham" 

Message  15: Re: Solviva Greenhouse type setup
             from "Brent Bingham" 

Message  16: Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED:-Monitoring hardware & thank you
             from Bill Patrick 

Message  17: Re: costs and competition and quality
             from "Christopher S Weller" 

Message  18: Aquaponics journal?
             from "Christopher S Weller" 

Message  19: Re: Economics
             from BMac1978

Message  20: Re: Aquaponics journal?
             from "Marc Laberge" 

Message  21: Reply to - Re: Economics
             from "David Atkinson" 

Message  22: Reply to - Re: costs and competition/ Be warned 
LONG!!
             from "David Atkinson" 

Message  23: Eatin' the Big Chalupa
             from "TGTX" 

.         .
| Message 1                                                           

Subject: Re: costs and competition and quality
From:    "Leslie Ter Morshuizen" 
Date:    Fri, 31 Aug 2001 07:32:26 +0200

Hi

Don't forget to compare the relative cost of living in these calculations.

Leslie

> This is going to sound flippant, there should be a freedom index for
> incoming products. The cheaper the labor the more we leverage against
> slavery. 
> 
> > Do we apply more technology,
> > scream for tariffs, grovel for subsities?

.         .
| Message 2                                                           

Subject: RE: costs and competition and quality
From:    "Mark Allen Wells" 
Date:    Fri, 31 Aug 2001 02:14:04 -0500

>Much of what is coming into the US is produced by slave labor / prison
labor
>and or political detainees. That said do we want Uncle Sam to do it all?
The
>more trade we do with places like China the more freedom slips in.
>Then you have places that trade at less than cost in order to get real
money
>to use in the open market. Others are using drug money to buy produce then
>ship it in to launder the drug money. Within reason they do not care
>if they take a lose on the load of vegetables.

>I do not know if there is an answer.
>Brent
----

I wonder how many Americans would change their consumer spending habits if
they were aware of this?  A large percentage is apathetic
.but I think many
do care and just don't know.  They don't know how important it is to keep
their
consumer dollars circulating locally
.how communities and farms need each
other.  I do not know if there is an answer either but I do not think
aquaponics and other forms of sustainable agriculture can succeed without
education

without being actively involved with our markets
.building
relationships with our customers
.making them feel they are more than
just consumers buying produce
.they are taking an active role not just
in providing healthy food for their families, but in building healthy
communities and farms.

This won't be an easy task.  In my town of about 28,000 there are maybe 25
restaurants (mostly fastfood) within 4 miles of each other.  It amazes me.
I honestly think you could do everything right and still fail if you were
in an area where too many were of the wrong mindset.

mark

.         .
| Message 3                                                           

Subject: Lightsmith
From:    "Marc Laberge" 
Date:    Fri, 31 Aug 2001 03:20:37 -0400

Would anybody know what average foot-candle intensity is required for Boston
lettuce? I just read that Gordon suggested 2000 at the plant level in his
question and answers section of the aquaponics journal.
Marc Laberge
Mont Tremblant
Quebec , Canada

.         .
| Message 4                                                           

Subject: lightsmith cont'd.From:    "Marc Laberge" 
Date:    Fri, 31 Aug 2001 03:26:02 -0400

sorry

.I thought that 2000 was/is very high. I was just wondering what
other folks average light intensity is.
Marc Laberge
Mont Tremblant
Quebec , Canada

.         .
| Message 5                                                           

Subject: RE: costs and competition/ Be warned 
LONG!!
From:    "Mark Allen Wells" 
Date:    Fri, 31 Aug 2001 03:34:46 -0500

There are clear signs happening friends that this is all falling in
place.

Im not a pessimist, nor a biblethumper, neither ultra-orthdox nor a
radical. I m just willing to offer my opinion t wider scrutiny, in the
hope that someone might think on what I say.
---

Mike,

I'm going to send a longer reply to this offlist this weekend
.I'm 
tired now (very rough week)
.and I don't want to sound like doom and 
gloom.  I'm not a pessimist either
.I love life and laughter
.but
you're right
.things are happening. I respect you very much for taking 
the time and having the heart and mind to write what you did.  I told you 
when we first met that I felt God was calling His army together one 
soldier at a time.  I consider you my brother.

This list is many things to many people.  For me, it is about learning 
things I will one day be sharing with others

and building relationships 
with like-minded people.  I spent 2 months with the search engines, a 
couple of weeks reading all of the archives and some time here picking 
the brains of the amazing people that share so much (thank you all).  
I still like fish and plant questions too of course
.it all fascinates 
me.  But like Mike, lately there has been a lot of things on my mind 
about the bigger picture so I drift that way sometimes.  Our town is 
losing manufacturing jobs right and left
.the whole nation is and people 
are scared.  We have to reconnect the farms (that once created countless 
small-cottage industries) with the city people who need them but don't 
know it yet. (by farms I mean both urban, rural
.greenhouses, etc.)
I think aquaponics will one day play a role in sustainable communities.

have a great weekend everyone.mark

.         .
| Message 6                                                           

Subject: Re: Lightsmith
From:    LC543119
Date:    Fri, 31 Aug 2001 06:48:42 EDT

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Marc, General Electric did extensive R&D  research and came up with the 
2000fc as the best optimum range for lettuce, Gordon

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Marc, General Electric did extensive R&D
 research and came up with the 

2000fc as the best optimum range for lettuce, Gordon
--part1_d1.bdb9dc5.28c0c58a_boundary-- . . | Message 7 Subject: Re: costs and competition/ Be warned LONG!! From: LC543119 Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 06:49:52 EDT . . | Message 8 Subject: Re: Water level sensor From: Ian Franzmann Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 21:37:50 +1000 Hi Arlus Arlus said >You could always fake it. Put in a gallon (or whatever increment is >suitable) at a time and record the reading. Now you can use the fraction >of in between one reading and another to simulate fractions of the >gallon (or unit).(Snip) Barry has sent me some VB code and a proceedure, offline which will work well with some mechanical changes for me to do. I will post the results when I have it working. Thanks or your help. Ian . . | Message 9 Subject: Re: Water level sensor From: Ian Franzmann Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 21:57:50 +1000 Hi Roy Roy said >I'm pretty sure what you are describing is a cycloidal movement, and the >equation defining this movement is in any standard calculus book. Mine are >packed up currently or I would have a look (if you don't get any >satisfactory answers shortly let me know and I will look for my college >textbook). Yes cycloidal. I am trained in Electronics math and familiar with Simple harmonic motion of a point traveling around circle projected onto the diameter of that circle as a position on that diameter. Will post the results. Thanks Ian . . | Message 10 Subject: Re: More vortex questions From: Ian Franzmann Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 21:57:02 +1000 Hi Carolyn Carolyn said >For those of you who are experimenting with vortex filters, can you >tell me if unicellular algae dispersed though out the water column is >affect by the vortex filtering process? Is it: > heavier than water (and thus spun to the outside and down?) > lighter than water (gathers at the inside and top ) > seems to be about the same specific gravity as the water (unaffected) I am not the best at explaining processes so here goes. >From my understanding of a Water vortex and I may be corrected with this, is if the vortex spin is strong enough with it's height and width just right all undissolved particles will go towards the center of the vortex and down an air tube to the bottom where they are dispersed and will settled out there. Build one and see, they are wonderful things to watch through a glass tube. Ian . . | Message 11 Subject: Specific Gravity of Algae From: "TGTX" Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 07:21:48 -0500 Carolyn and Company, The degree of intracellular gas vacuole development and lipid content ratio changes in cyanobacteria (blue green algae) is an adaptation or phylogenetic plasticity design characteristic that can result in the blue greens floating, ie, they become less dense in bulk volume than the density of water which is about 1 gram per cubic centimeter at ambient temps. The other algae, however, can be settled or centrifuged out because I think they are at about 1.15 to 1.20 g/cc .but don't quote me cause that is just a SWAG that I seem to remember from some old tattered notebook Bear in mind that many flagellated species of microscopic unicellular green algae (Chlorophycophyta) can swim against gravity and pressure gradients or currents to a degree. Ever thought of inclined plate settlers? Ted . . | Message 12 Subject: Re: costs and competition/ Be warned LONG!! From: "Arlos" Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 06:32:22 -0700 Mark, I'm not inclined to thinking the sky is falling nor sheep with flaming tongues are descending from the heavens though I'm pretty sure i saw one on a cell phone driving to San Jose this past week. the only prison labor I know of for certain is products made by Norenco, the industrial arm of the chinese army to put it simply. They used to export an SKS 7.62 semi auto with folding stock which converted quite simply to a fully auto assault for sale less than $80 (US)Perfect for the home protection enthusiast .(OK, this is tongue in cheek so don't read anything to heavy into this) as far as drug money laundering produce for sale into the US I couldn't say but I have visited ranches from La Purisima, BC to San Jose Del Cabo BC, that do produce and ship to AZ, TX and CA and I've never seen anything resembling prison or "Las drugas" money at work. The owners at the time seemed to be doing quite well and I played soccer with kids and got my butt kicked The importation comes down to, they can produce it cheaper than we can Here in the silicon valley, manufacturing left due to the combined cost of doing business. I used to travel frequently as one gets up and drives to Star Bucks for morning coffee to install processing for wafer fab. It's just economics not an act of God . any time a change takes place and Y2K was a good example, people start hoarding food, gas, guns, batteries and wait for the Book of Revelation to unfold. guess what, we all woke up, had coffee, computers still managed to work, the dog still wanted to go for a walk in the morning and the water in the toilet still spun down the same direction it did the day before and Christ didn't show up with the prize patrol and we still have an idiot for a president Mark, it makes me nervous when I hear of God's army being called up one solider at a time. It makes me think some spiritual hearing aids are in need of a tune-up. Its probably time the bulk of the world got a chance for a larger piece of the pie. India now has the largest middle class. The question still remains, how to remain competitive? I for one am willing to pay a premium price ever sat morning for produce from my local farmers market because the money stays local where as i could go to COSTCO and buy a flat of tomatoes for the same price I just paid for the bag I bought at the farmers market. If we, one by one lose industries and then the ability to feed, cloth and house ourselves then we're really in the compost pile. Instead of attempting to re tool our heavy industries, we abandoned entire communities and sent those industries packing. Could we retool quickly enough in the event of national crisis? I kind of doubt that .Do we have a based or baseless fear of letting go our responsibility to put shoes on our own feet? Maybe it's just growing pains. If the population is on the rise, there is currently only a finite amount of resource to produce food including land, water and .Do we start paying $6 a head for lettuce in the winter or dig in and become more creative and learn to produce more faster and cheaper with Aquaponics? seems to me produce in the past 10 years has risen about 400% in cost. Local pippin apples used to cost about $.39 lb. and now they're about $1.79 lb. I never hear of new farms being build on the contrary here in CA they seemed to be turned under as fast as you can answer, "Would you like frys with the order?" and the question still remains, "Where the heck is the food coming from?" Sharpen those pencils . there is little we can do as individuals to control our own world anymore but we can at least produce enough food with minimal space to feed our families. S&S has made quite a nifty little package and offered quite a challenge.-----Original Message----- From: Mark Allen Wells To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com Date: Friday, August 31, 2001 1:36 AM Subject: RE: costs and competition/ Be warned LONG!! >There are clear signs happening friends that this is all falling in >place. > >Im not a pessimist, nor a biblethumper, neither ultra-orthdox nor a >radical. I m just willing to offer my opinion t wider scrutiny, in the >hope that someone might think on what I say. >--- > >Mike, > >I'm going to send a longer reply to this offlist this weekend .I'm >tired now (very rough week) .and I don't want to sound like doom and >gloom. I'm not a pessimist either .I love life and laughter .but >you're right .things are happening. I respect you very much for taking >the time and having the heart and mind to write what you did. I told you >when we first met that I felt God was calling His army together one >soldier at a time. I consider you my brother. > >This list is many things to many people. For me, it is about learning >things I will one day be sharing with others and building relationships >with like-minded people. I spent 2 months with the search engines, a >couple of weeks reading all of the archives and some time here picking >the brains of the amazing people that share so much (thank you all). >I still like fish and plant questions too of course .it all fascinates >me. But like Mike, lately there has been a lot of things on my mind >about the bigger picture so I drift that way sometimes. Our town is >losing manufacturing jobs right and left .the whole nation is and people >are scared. We have to reconnect the farms (that once created countless >small-cottage industries) with the city people who need them but don't >know it yet. (by farms I mean both urban, rural .greenhouses, etc.) >I think aquaponics will one day play a role in sustainable communities. > >have a great weekend everyone.>mark > . . | Message 13 Subject: Re: costs and competition and quality From: Arlus Farnsworth Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 08:15:32 -0700 Exactly, freedom to do what? Freedom is often not understood. Well, I'm free to develop my plant and fish systems. I do get a lot of pressure from people to go the nine to five route, mostly when I keep my money hidden. I guess I am expected to be spending money as socially mandated. I'm starting to be more confident with the small number of fish I have, the next step is a slightly larger model. I will keep the smaller version to run tests and tweaks on. . . | Message 14 Subject: Re: Solviva Greenhouse type setup From: "Brent Bingham" Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 08:54:07 -0700 Yes, We work with a group that does this same thing in Bolivia on top of a mountain for the native Indians. Brent ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher S Weller" Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 8:20 AM Subject: Solviva Greenhouse type setup > This Is for all ya' Northern US and Canadains (colder climes) > > Would it be fisable to use a greenhouse with the following type system > > 1. no elec heat ie solar heated water > 2. barn animals for Co2 and added heat > 3. fish for nutrients > 4. plants for O2 animals and food for the family of 4 > > by barn aniamals I mean cow, goats, polutry, > > by no elec solar heated water I mean a pumped system of pipes that pump > water to a series > of solar heaters similar to PV panels that the water heats up then > is pumped back into the holding tanks for the fish > > > > . . | Message 15 Subject: Re: Solviva Greenhouse type setup From: "Brent Bingham" Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 13:28:34 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. =_NextPart_000_0012_01C1308E.80E7AAC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A very cost effective solar collection system is available. If you have = the space lay out black poly pipe on a bed of Styrofoam and fill-in the = voids with 4' to 6' smooth stones trying to not cover the black tubing. = Cover the entire bed with black poly sheeting leaving the two ends = exposed. Place enough smooth 4 stones on the sheeting to keep it from = blowing away. Bury the outer perimeter of the sheeting in a trench 12" = deep with a portion flat on the bottom covered with dirt. Connect the = two ends to lines running in a trench to the greenhouse. If you use = propylene glycol in the lines it is safe and keeps the pit from = freezing. You can get rather cheep fiberglass septic tanks to bury for = solar storage. The pump can be operated by a simple line voltage = thermostat which has a remote bulb sensor in the pit. If you wish to go = higher Tec a differential thermostat is better. It shuts off the pump = when the pit water is colder than the tank water. A simple coil in the = tank will act as a heat exchanger. This is an open loop system with no = pressure so the water in the poly pipe can and does get hot enough to = burn you but does not burst. If you get snow you can place the pit on a = pile of dirt. Efficiency is not really relevant but you can face the = pile of dirt to align with the winter track of the sun to get more sun = and get rid of the snow. From experience you want to fence out the cows = or you get a lot of holes in the sheeting but it works even with a lot = of holes. Brent ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Arlos=20 To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 12:09 PM Subject: Re: Solviva Greenhouse type setup the use of Solar (Thermal) is going to be limited to peak efficiency = around 1:30 PM. Considering the short days in Northern climates it may = offer only a slight increase in heat gain. If considering this type of = system, you need a heat exchanger and not attempt to use process = effluent as it contain far to many suspended solids. snip . You are still limited to freeze sensors which may have to overridden = that typically shut a system down at 34 F=20 snip Arlos -----Original Message----- From: BMac1978 To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com Date: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 11:31 AM Subject: Re: Solviva Greenhouse type setup In a message dated 8/29/2001 10:30:04 AM Central Daylight Time,=20 writes:=20 This Is for all ya' Northern US and Canadains (colder climes)=20 Would it be fisable to use a greenhouse with the following type = system=20 1. no elec heat ie solar heated water=20 2. barn animals for Co2 and added heat=20 3. fish for nutrients=20 4. plants for O2 animals and food for the family of 4=20 by barn aniamals I mean cow, goats, polutry,=20 by no elec solar heated water I mean a pumped system of pipes that = pump=20 water to a series=20 of solar heaters similar to PV panels that the water heats = up then=20 is pumped back into the holding tanks for the fish=20 I think this is something that many of us would be interested in = learning=20 about. I look forward to reading if someone has an answer to this!=20 Dawn=20 =_NextPart_000_0012_01C1308E.80E7AAC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
A very cost effective solar collection = system is=20 available. If you have the space lay out black poly pipe on a bed of = Styrofoam=20 and fill-in the voids with 4' to 6' smooth stones trying to not cover = the black=20 tubing. Cover the entire bed with black poly sheeting leaving the two = ends=20 exposed. Place enough smooth 4 stones on the sheeting to keep it from = blowing=20 away. Bury the outer perimeter of the sheeting in a trench 12" deep with = a=20 portion flat on the bottom covered with dirt. Connect the two = ends=20 to lines running in a trench to the greenhouse. If you = use propylene=20 glycol in the lines it is safe and keeps the pit from freezing. You = can get=20 rather cheep fiberglass septic tanks to bury for solar storage. The pump = can be=20 operated by a simple line voltage thermostat which has a remote bulb = sensor in=20 the pit. If you wish to go higher Tec a differential thermostat is = better. It=20 shuts off the pump when the pit water is colder than the tank water. A = simple=20 coil in the tank will act as a heat exchanger. This is an open loop = system with=20 no pressure so the water in the poly pipe can and does get hot enough to = burn=20 you but does not burst. If you get snow you can place the pit on a pile = of dirt.=20 Efficiency is not really relevant but you can face the pile of dirt to = align=20 with the winter track of the sun to get more sun and get rid of the = snow. From=20 experience you want to fence out the cows or you get a lot of holes in = the=20 sheeting but it works even with a lot of holes.
Brent
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Arlos
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, = 2001 12:09=20 PM
Subject: Re: Solviva Greenhouse = type=20 setup

the use of Solar (Thermal) is = going to be=20 limited to peak efficiency around 1:30 PM. Considering the short days = in=20 Northern climates it may offer only a slight increase in heat gain. If = considering this type of system, you need a heat exchanger and not = attempt to=20 use process effluent as it contain far to many suspended = solids.
snip
 
. You are still limited to freeze = sensors=20 which may have to overridden that typically shut a system down at 34 F =
snip
Arlos
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 BMac1978 <BMac1978>
To: = aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com = <aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com>
= Date:=20 Wednesday, August 29, 2001 11:31 AM
Subject: Re: = Solviva=20 Greenhouse type setup

In a message dated 8/29/2001 10:30:04 AM Central Daylight = Time,=20
=20 writes:


This Is for all ya' Northern US and Canadains (colder = climes)=20

Would it be fisable to use a greenhouse with the following = type=20 system

1. no elec heat ie solar heated water
2. barn = animals=20 for Co2 and added heat
3. fish for nutrients
4. plants for = O2=20 animals and food for the family of 4

by barn aniamals I = mean cow,=20 goats, polutry,

by no elec solar heated water I mean a = pumped=20 system of pipes that pump
water to a series=20
       of solar heaters = similar to=20 PV panels that the water heats up then
is pumped back into the = holding=20 tanks         for the fish =


I think this is something that many of us = would be=20 interested in learning
about.  I look forward to reading if = someone=20 has an answer to this!

Dawn
=20
=_NextPart_000_0012_01C1308E.80E7AAC0-- . . | Message 16 Subject: Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED:-Monitoring hardware & thank you From: Bill Patrick Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 16:41:06 -0400 Bill Patrick wrote: Here's a vendor site, I have some > friends in the process control business I'll call them and find out what > happened to PLCdirect and post their new site. > Well I checked and Automationdirect is now the old Koyo PLCdirect. Good stuff. > http://store2.automationdirect.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ExecMacro/plcdirect/homeframe.d2w/report > > > Bill Patrick . . | Message 17 Subject: Re: costs and competition and quality From: "Christopher S Weller" Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 11:40:25 -0400 Arlus Farnsworth wrote "This is going to sound flippant, there should be a freedom index for incoming products. The cheaper the labor the more we leverage against slavery." My question is what is a freedom Index? Chris Weller . . | Message 18 Subject: Aquaponics journal? From: "Christopher S Weller" Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 15:10:07 -0400 Marc Laberge wrote "Would anybody know what average foot-candle intensity is required for Boston lettuce? I just read that Gordon suggested 2000 at the plant level in his question and answers section of the aquaponics journal." My question more info on this aquaponics journal please. i.e. where I can find it Who publishes it . . | Message 19 Subject: Re: Economics From: BMac1978 Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 19:59:53 EDT --part1_119.403062f.28c17ef9_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/30/2001 6:53:02 PM Central Daylight Time, writes: > THERE. I DID IT. NOW, DO NOT BE AFRAID. DON'T WORRY. JUST PROCEED, IF > YOU ARE SO MOVED. > > This helps, eh? > > I Bid You Peace, And > May God Bless You All. > > Ted > Thanks Ted, That really did help, and I am definately so moved to give this a try! Dawn --part1_119.403062f.28c17ef9_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/30/2001 6:53:02 PM Central Daylight Time,
writes:


THERE.  I DID IT.  NOW, DO NOT BE AFRAID.  DON'T WORRY.  JUST PROCEED, IF
YOU ARE SO MOVED.

This helps, eh?

I Bid You Peace, And
May God Bless You All.

Ted


Thanks Ted,  That really did help, and I am definately so moved to give this
a try!

Dawn
--part1_119.403062f.28c17ef9_boundary-- . . | Message 20 Subject: Re: Aquaponics journal? From: "Marc Laberge" Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 20:16:26 -0400 phone 209-742-6869 fax 209-742-4402 journal 'at' aquaponics.com -----Original Message----- From: Christopher S Weller To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com Date: Friday, August 31, 2001 7:28 PM Subject: Aquaponics journal? > Marc Laberge wrote >"Would anybody know what average foot-candle intensity is required for >Boston > lettuce? I just read that Gordon suggested 2000 at the plant level in his > question and answers section of the aquaponics journal." > > >My question more info on this aquaponics journal please. >i.e. where I can find it > Who publishes it > > > . . | Message 21 Subject: Reply to - Re: Economics From: "David Atkinson" Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 22:00:10 -0400 Hi all, I am not sure if there are others bankers on this group, but as a banker I will respond shortly to the issue of the 'economics' of aquaponics from a banker's perspective with some points for your consideration. I was unsubscribed for several weeks having been off the Island on vacation with my family. Consequently, I missed the origin of this thread and am also catching up in others areas. Time does not allow me to respond to the subject matter today, but I will post the information to the list in a couple of days. So look out for it. Cheers. David A. (from Jamaica W.I.) P.S. If anyone may have specific questions that they may want addressed, feel free to contact me off-list and I will respond in due course. (Of course a compiled FAQ file would be posted to the list for everyone's benefit) :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene Batten Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 9:06 PM Subject: Re: Economics > Ted, > > Thanks for the numbers and advise. Every little bit of info helps those like > me who are looking into aquaponics without the benefit of experience, yet. > You seem to confirme my suspicion. That is that aquaponics can be > profitable, but it is not easy. If it was easy, more people would be doing > it. Like most conventional businesses, the operation must be well planned > and well run to make a reasonable profit. It is not a sure road to wealth, > but aquaponics can yield a reasonable profit while providing an "earth > friendly" product. > snip , snip . . . | Message 22 Subject: Reply to - Re: costs and competition/ Be warned LONG!! From: "David Atkinson" Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 22:02:01 -0400 Empty message, please resubmit with contents ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 6:49 AM Subject: Re: costs and competition/ Be warned LONG!! > . . | Message 23 Subject: Eatin' the Big Chalupa From: "TGTX" Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 19:29:24 -0500 >From: "Juan C. Bobeda" >Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 20:42:13 -0400 >Adriana, the meaning of "chalupa" is Sloop, a small light vessel. In >Mexico it is the name of a small two person boat. Also in Mexico it is >the name of a small corn cake with some kind of topping on it. >Juan Juan, Adriana, e otros ranchos e ranchosas? de los agua?? In Austin, Tejas, or at least in South Austin, Tejas, which is an entirely different State of Mind To "Eat the Big Chalupa" loosely translates to many things which generally mean to wipe out on a motorcycle, or off your board on a major tubular wave, or to buy the farm, or, to go to the Big Ranch in the Sky, or, to give up the ghost, or, to have a permanent visit with the Grim Reaper, or, to Dance with Mr. D to be squashed like a bug on the windshield of Life, or to otherwise have something monumental happen which is irreversibly huge and significant, life changing, and which brings to an end business as usual, or whatever was happening just moments before Kind of a culinary TexMex Jazz Fusion Reference to any of your major personal revolutions and life changes The end of wide awake hunger only to be met with the beginning of sleepy indigestion . Crash Bang Boom Tedzilla

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