Aquaponics Digest - Wed 09/05/01

gee bruce, does that mean all lines that run water through a home is no > good? that all copper lines running propane are no good? > > > - I'm no chemist but I can tell you almost all the fish in my small koi pon= d died this morning. These fish have lived thru just about everything for the l= ast five years and were getting quite large. The only thing that had changed= in this ornamental pond was a metal screen we'd added. I've made sure all t= he parts for our tilapia operation were plastic but I'd missed seeing the sc= reen on the goldfish pond installed. As soon as we got the remaining goldfish ou= t of that pond and into fresh water, they revived. I can only assume that something in the metal was deadly to the fish. Do= as you wish about adding metal parts to the system, but this isn't the only plac= e I've read with warnings of the dangers of it. MickGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.= msn.com =_NextPart_001_0001_01C13616.0BD3E0E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

The water in y= our house is potable water. The water in your fish tank has ammonia and b= acteria that changes ammonia into nitrates! Both ammonia and nitrates are= crevice. The nitrates change copper into copper sulfate. nitrates eats M= OST Melts. Copper sulfate will kill alga, fish and any other plants and m= ost anemals!

----- Original Messa= ge -----

From: Mick

Sent:= Wednesday, September 05, 2001 1:14 PM

To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com

Subject: Re: heat exchangers and collectors

&nbs= p;

gerry magnuson wrote:

> gee bruce, does that me= an all lines that run water through a home is no
> good? that all c= opper lines running propane are no good?
> >
> -----= --

I'm no chemist but I can tell you= almost all the fish in my small koi pond died
this morning. The= se fish have lived thru just about everything for the last
five years = and were getting quite large. The only thing that had changed inthis ornamental pond was a metal screen we'd added. I've made sure= all the
parts for our tilapia operation were plastic but I'd missed s= eeing the screen on
the goldfish pond installed. As soon as we g= ot the remaining goldfish out of
that pond and into fresh water, they = revived.

I can only assume that something in the metal was deadly = to the fish. Do as you
wish about adding metal parts to the syst= em, but this isn't the only place I've
read with warnings of the dange= rs of it.

Mick

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=_NextPart_001_0001_01C13616.0BD3E0E0-- | Message 11 Subject: Re: boiler From: Arlus Farnsworth Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2001 14:55:59 -0700 I don't know about for fish tanks, but that sure sounds like a nice, warm floor. Floor insulation is probably a good idea in either case of cold. Could be a disadvantage in the summer when there is heat. You could run a line underground for cooling and heating. Or utilize removable insulation block inserts. Heating would require a compressor type of heat exchange. Have no numbers for cost/btu. > > Why couldn't you use PEX tubing like that used in floor heating > > systems? | Message 12 Subject: boiler piping From: "Steven Medlock" Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 17:20:01 -0500 OK already ! So electrolysis is the problem because of the nitrate etc. I have had this copper coil in this plastic tank since last winter. It has had no ill effects on the fish or plants. could the fact that the waste is pumped out so often in the S&S system that it has no time to effect it. On the other hand if I change it out I should use stainless steel. I am the simple farm type. I have just gold fish in the tank now. Red | Message 13 Subject: Re: heat exchangers and collectors From: Mick Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2001 17:36:38 -0500 Thomas Short wrote: > The water in your house is potable water. The water in your fish tank > has ammonia and bacteria that changes ammonia into nitrates! Both > ammonia and nitrates are crevice. The nitrates change copper into > copper sulfate. nitrates eats MOST Melts. Copper sulfate will kill > alga, fish and any other plants and most anemals! > > ----- > > Thanks, Thomas! > > I've been telling the guys on the ranch "No Metals" since we first > started looking into aquaponics. I didn't know the science behind it > but I remembered it was dangerous from my early aquarium days. > > I'm gonna print your message and tack it up in the barn as we have > this same discussion every time they go to plumb part of the system > and reach for metal piping or the things like the metal screen that > killed my goldfish. Boy, are they gonna get an "I told you so" > tonight! > > Mick > > > > | Message 14 Subject: Re: heat exchangers and collectors From: "F.Carl Uhland" Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2001 18:02:25 -0400 Howdy all, Round tanks are usually favored because of the "self-cleaning"=20 aspects. Dead areas in square tanks (the corners) contribute to poor water= =20 quality, and can be a good way to stress your fish and develop various and= =20 sundry diseases. This of course is also dependent on the type of=20 fish. There are some species that are more resistant to poor environmental= =20 conditions. These species would still probably grow better if offered=20 superior water quality. Carl At 07:52 05-09-01 -1000, you wrote: >gee bruce, does that mean all lines that run water through a home is no=20 >good? that all copper lines running propane are no good? using copper=20 >properly in a 55 gallon, plastic tub/barrel, to heat water in the tub to=20 >be transferred to a fish or plant area is a no-no? It has been proven to=20 >work in nevada .not everyone has access to expensive solutions, as=20 >valuable as they may be, one can also use cpvc .I am at the commercial=20 >level, costs are very apparent at this stage, and I tend to follow people= =20 >with proven results .that are in the business, as S&S is .playing with=20 >aluminum, one must use zinc .I would like someone to also explain the=20 >advantages and disadvantages of a round verses square tank, and for people= =20 >to expand on the types of crops/flowers that can be grown successfully in= =20 >this system, or the benefit of using 6mm, 8mm, or even 10mm poly, and the= =20 >better place to purchase .we are not rich folk in this industry, rather=20 >seeking need methods, and costs and simplicty are very real.> > > > > > > >>From: (Bruce Schreiber) >>Reply-To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com >>To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com, >>Subject: Re: heat exchangers and collectors >>Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 10:00:13 -0500 (CDT) >> >> NEVER! NEVER! NEVER! use copper in a system that contains Aquatic >>animals ie.fish or a system that grows plants because as the copper >>pipes degrade due to electrolysis the copper gets loose in the system >>and its about as deadly to fish and plant life as cyanide is to us so in >>a short time your system is wiped out! Aluminum is less deadly but >>after a time it causes an imbalance in the system and a failure to >>thrive Arlos is right you can only use stainless steel in fresh water or >>titanium in salt water unless you are prone to shooting your self in the >>foot and if that's the case I hope you didn't mortgage the farm to >>support the system because your going to loose it all. >> Note keep Arlos's Email handy because some one like him that gives >>free advice on our subject line with his experience level usually get >>payed the big bucks for it and they have no time for sniping due to free >>bees and fools . >> Bruce > > > > F. Carl Uhland, DVM Facult=E9 M=E9decine V=E9t=E9rinaire University of Montreal 3200 rue Sicotte Saint-Hyacinthe (Qu=E9bec) J2S 7C6 T=E9l: 450-773-8521; ext: 8317 Fax: 450-778-8116 Carl.F.Uhland 'at' umontreal.ca | Message 15 Subject: Zebra mussels From: "Frank Stancato" Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 20:07:05 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. =_NextPart_000_0044_01C13646.55749980 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Found this article on a way to get rid of zebra mussels, just follow the = link. http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=3Dns99991204 Frank =_NextPart_000_0044_01C13646.55749980 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Found this article on a way to get rid of zebra mussels, just = follow the=20 link.

http:/= /www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=3Dns99991204

Frank

=_NextPart_000_0044_01C13646.55749980-- | Message 16 Subject: Please Help From: "Louis N. Scerbo" Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2001 23:16:14 -0400 I would like to try to set up a system in my basement. The reason I want to do it in my basement is I feel even though it will cost me much more money for Lighting ie: metal halide and high pressure sodium, as a first system it will be cheaper than a greenhouse with heating. I live in Northeastern Pennsylvania so I'd need supplemental lighting in the winter anyway. I plan a system with a 300 gal. round tank, PolyTank, PT-6530, with one each 1000W metal halide and 1000W high pressure sodium. How many fish and PD-4902 PolyTank trays should I use? What about the humidity issue? Thank you all in advance for your help, Lou | Message 17 Subject: Re: heat exchangers and collectors From: (Bruce Schreiber) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 23:25:56 -0500 (CDT) Gerry all that I can tell you is that with my own 30 years of fish breeding experiences and the combined experience of my fellow top level Aquarians and hatchery operators that total around 1000 years of experience .COPPER is at best a medication used carefully and at worst a sure wipe out used to poison some ones system that you don't like because you want him to fail. When you draw water from a copper piped potable system you must let it run long enough to flush out the copper that might be be in solution(over night buildup) before filling a fish containing system or you will get a build up in the system killing the fish.(This is only magnifyed if you actually stupedly place copper in an inclosed fish system loop) Now it will not happen the first time or the tenth time BUT it will eventually build up to toxic levels. Its easy to tell when because the fish are all sort of dead looking and they taste kind of the way they smell. Ok now when that happens you take a sample of water to have it analyzed and you will be told that the copper is just a touch high OOPs!! you should have payed attention! But hey that's how I learned. actually that's how most of us learned that costly lesson. So now its your turn. Most systems go with circular tanks but race ways with staged levels each dropping in to the next level below works fine , you can play with the specie mix better and use surface hydroponics in it too!. Bruce | Message 18 Subject: Re: heat exchangers and collectors From: Arlus Farnsworth Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2001 21:41:07 -0700 What about water testing? For specific elements, or tests that pertain to aquaponics specifically? Anything someone could reasonably perform onsite? Bruce Schreiber wrote: > Ok now when that happens you > take a sample of water to have it analyzed and you will be told that the > copper is just a touch high OOPs!!