Aquaponics Digest - Thu 09/06/01



Message   1: Tank shapes
             from "Leslie Ter Morshuizen" 

Message   2: Re: heat exchangers and collectors
             from "gerry magnuson" 

Message   3: Re: Please Help
             from "gerry magnuson" 

Message   4: Re: heat exchangers and collectors
             from BMac1978

Message   5: Re: Please Help
             from Andrei Calciu

Message   6: Re: heat exchangers and collectors
             from Mick 

Message   7: Re: Aquaponics heat exchangers and collectors
             from marc

Message   8: Re: Please Help
             from "Louis N. Scerbo" 

Message   9: Re: Please Help
             from "Louis N. Scerbo" 

Message  10: stainless steel
             from Arlus Farnsworth 

Message  11: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Tue 09/04/01
             from DAVEINBHAM 'at' aol.com

Message  12: Re: Please Help
             from Andrei Calciu

Message  13: Re: Please Help
             from Mick 

Message  14: Re: Water Water everywhere.             from Arlus Farnsworth 

Message  15: Re: Please Help
             from kris book 

Message  16: RE: Please Help
             from "Ron Brooks" 

Message  17: Re: Please Help
             from BMac1978

Message  18: boiler copper
             from "Steven Medlock" 

Message  19: Re: boiler copper
             from Arlus Farnsworth 

Message  20: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Tue 09/04/01
             from "gerry magnuson" 

Message  21: Re: Please Help
             from "gerry magnuson" 

Message  22: Re: Please Help
             from "Thomas Short" 

Message  23: Re: Please Help
             from "Thomas Short" 

Message  24: Re: heat exchangers and collectors
             from  (Bruce Schreiber)

Message  25: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Tue 09/04/01
             from "Thomas Short" 

Message  26: Re: Please Help
             from "Chris Jeppesen" 

Message  27: Re: heat exchangers and collectors
             from "gerry magnuson" 

Message  28: Re: Please Help
             from "Thomas Short" 

Message  29: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Tue 09/04/01
             from "gerry magnuson" 

Message  30: Re: Please Help
             from "gerry magnuson" 

Message  31: Re: Please Help
             from  (Bruce Schreiber)

| Message 1                                                           
Subject: Tank shapes
From:    "Leslie Ter Morshuizen" 
Date:    Thu, 6 Sep 2001 08:12:10 +0200

Hi

The main advantage offered by square tanks is the better space utilisation
afforded by being able to pack the tanks against each other without having
the significant proportion of void space between tanks that occurs when
round tanks are used.  Make your selection according to the value of the
floor space and the characteristics of species being produced.  In an
outdoor system use round tanks as the cost of floor area is low, whereas in
a tunnel or hatchery it is high.  If water space is more important than
water quality then use square tanks, if water quality is the primary factor
use round tanks.  In an attempt to strike a compromise between the two
systems some farmers use square tanks with rounded corners, providing
increased water volume/space utilisation relative to a round tanks and
increased flushing efficiency relative to square tanks.

Regards,
                Leslie

Howdy all,

Round tanks are usually favored because of the "self-cleaning"
aspects.  Dead areas in square tanks (the corners) contribute to poor water
quality, and can be a good way to stress your fish and develop various and
sundry diseases.  This of course is also dependent on the type of
fish.  There are some species that are more resistant to poor environmental
conditions.  These species would still probably grow better if offered
superior water quality.

Carl

| Message 2                                                           
Subject: Re: heat exchangers and collectors
From:    "gerry magnuson" 
Date:    Thu, 06 Sep 2001 01:20:03 -1000

luv the great responses, thank you all, getting back to basics
.as to the 
copper with the fish, I beleive the young lady was talking about a 'heat 
exchange' system, and many failed to understand, not a teacher, the 55 
gallon tub was part of the exchange system, the coil of copper goes into the 
tub, and the water heated in the tub, is used to go into the fish 
tanks
sheesh
.whomever added that radiant heat site, thank you
.great 
info all
.cowboy

>From:  (Bruce Schreiber)
>Reply-To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>Subject: Re: heat exchangers and collectors
>Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 23:25:56 -0500 (CDT)
>
>Gerry all that I can tell you is that with my own 30 years of fish
>breeding  experiences and the combined experience of my fellow top level
>Aquarians and hatchery operators that total  around 1000 years of
>experience .COPPER is at best a medication used carefully and at worst a
>sure wipe out used to poison some ones system that you don't like
>because you want him to fail.
>   When you draw water from a copper piped potable system you must let it
>run long enough to flush out the copper that might be be in
>solution(over night buildup)  before filling a fish containing system or
>you will get a build up in the system killing the fish.(This is only
>magnifyed  if you actually stupedly place copper in an inclosed fish
>system loop)
>   Now it will not happen the first time or the tenth time BUT it will
>eventually build up to toxic levels.
>     Its easy to tell when because the fish are all sort of dead looking
>and they taste kind of the way they smell. Ok now when that happens you
>take a sample of water to have it analyzed and you will be told that the
>copper is just a touch high OOPs!!  you should have payed attention!
>But hey that's how I learned.  actually that's how most of us learned
>that costly lesson. So now its your turn.
>         Most systems go with circular tanks but race ways with staged
>levels each dropping in to the next level below works fine , you can
>play with the specie mix better and use surface hydroponics in it too!.
>           Bruce
>

 

| Message 3                                                           
Subject: Re: Please Help
From:    "gerry magnuson" 
Date:    Thu, 06 Sep 2001 01:21:18 -1000

do I smell burning weeds?

>From: "Louis N. Scerbo" 
>Reply-To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>Subject: Please Help
>Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2001 23:16:14 -0400
>
>    I would like to try  to set up a system in my basement. The reason I
>want to do it in my basement is I feel even though it will cost me much
>more money for Lighting ie: metal  halide and high pressure sodium, as a
>first system it will be cheaper than a greenhouse with heating.
>    I live in Northeastern Pennsylvania so I'd need supplemental
>lighting in the winter anyway.
>    I plan a system with a 300 gal. round tank, PolyTank, PT-6530, with
>one each 1000W metal halide and 1000W high pressure sodium.
>    How many fish and  PD-4902 PolyTank trays should I use?
>    What about the humidity issue?
>
>Thank you all in advance for your help,
>Lou
>

 

| Message 4                                                           
Subject: Re: heat exchangers and collectors
From:    BMac1978
Date:    Thu, 6 Sep 2001 09:24:46 EDT

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In a message dated 9/5/2001 3:10:01 PM Central Daylight Time, 
 writes:

> I can tell you almost all the fish in my small koi pond died
> 

So sorry to hear this happened, I think we can all learn from what happened 
to you.  If you have the choice during set up, stay clear of metals that come 
in contact with the water, right?  I know I am not going to take the chance 
when I get my set up running.

Dawn

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In a message dated 9/5/2001 3:10:01 PM Central Daylight Time, 

writes:


I can tell you almost all the fish in my small koi pond died
this morning.


So sorry to hear this happened, I think we can all learn from what happened
to you.  If you have the choice during set up, stay clear of metals that come
in contact with the water, right?  I know I am not going to take the chance
when I get my set up running.

Dawn
--part1_ff.bb06f6f.28c8d31e_boundary-- | Message 5 Subject: Re: Please Help From: Andrei Calciu Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 09:58:34 -0400 go to http://www.heatpipe.com they sell high performance dehumidifiers. Instead of putting the water down the drain, you can have the dehumidifier dump the water back in the fish tank. You may also want to consider painting your basement in the brightest white color you can find and possibly installing drywall (the humidity resistant kind used in bathrooms - called blueboard, I think) on the ceiling of your basement. This will keep the humidity from migrating upwards toward the living space. Use oil based paints (they do not allow humidity to be absorbed into the drywall. Coupled with a high performance dehumidifier, you should be sitting in butter after that. -_______________ Andrei D. Calciu (VA-4270) NEC America, Inc. 14040 Park Center Dr. Herndon, VA 20171-3227 Voice: 703-834-4273 Fax: 703-787-6613 This message and any attachment are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please telephone or email the sender and delete the message and any attachment from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you must not copy this message or attachment or disclose the contents to any other person. | Message 6 Subject: Re: heat exchangers and collectors From: Mick Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 10:39:57 -0500 --750BE0B25DFC8F3AA44FFC89 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > So sorry to hear this happened, I think we can all learn from what > happened > to you. If you have the choice during set up, stay clear of metals > that come > in contact with the water, right? I know I am not going to take the > chance > when I get my set up running. > > Dawn ----- Dawn, Staying clear of all metals is the safest way, as far as I'm concerned. The screen that was installed in the goldfish pond appeared to be stainless steel when the guys stupidly installed it. Looking at the screen now, I can see that where the water came in contact with the screen, the shine was eaten away and the underlying metal was a totally different color. Who knows what the composition of that metal was copper? lead? I have no idea how metal is smelted so to avoid having to decide if a metal piece is safe or not, I just avoid all metal problem solved. You can find plastic parts for your entire system, even the large shutoff valves or water redirection valves. As for winter heating, circulating water tends to have close to the same temperature as the ambient air. We have commercial aqua heaters that raise the water temp five degrees in our tanks. We used them this spring with no problems. This winter, the plan is to make the greenhouse/barn as air tight as possible and keep the air warm with compost piles and an electric heater. We don't have many freezes in South Texas, so I'm hoping this will keep the fish warm enough. If not, I'll have to add more heaters to the tanks and my electric bill is not gonna be pretty. Best of luck with your new system. I hope you get it up and running soon! Mick --750BE0B25DFC8F3AA44FFC89 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

So sorry to hear this happened, I think we can all learn from what happened
to you.  If you have the choice during set up, stay clear of metals that come
in contact with the water, right?  I know I am not going to take the chance
when I get my set up running.

Dawn

-----
 

Dawn,

Staying clear of all metals is the safest way, as far as I'm concerned.  The screen that was installed in the goldfish pond appeared to be stainless steel when the guys stupidly installed it.  Looking at the screen now, I can see that where the water came in contact with the screen, the shine was eaten away and the underlying metal was a totally different color.  Who knows what the composition of that metal was copper? lead?  I have no idea how metal is smelted so to avoid having to decide if a metal piece is safe or not, I just avoid all metal problem solved.

You can find plastic parts for your entire system, even the large shutoff valves or water redirection valves.

As for winter heating, circulating water tends to have close to the same temperature as the ambient air.  We have commercial aqua heaters that raise the water temp five degrees in our tanks.  We used them this spring with no problems.  This winter, the plan is to make the greenhouse/barn as air tight as possible and keep the air warm with compost piles and an electric heater.  We don't have many freezes in South Texas, so I'm hoping this will keep the fish warm enough.  If not, I'll have to add more heaters to the tanks and my electric bill is not gonna be pretty.

Best of luck with your new system.  I hope you get it up and running soon!

Mick
  --750BE0B25DFC8F3AA44FFC89-- | Message 7 Subject: Re: Aquaponics heat exchangers and collectors From: marc Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 12:22:40 -0600 > that all copper lines running propane are no good? It is commonplace for copper lines to fail due to soil pH. I have seen them fail in under a month both propane and water. > using copper > properly in a 55 gallon, plastic tub/barrel, to heat water in > the tub to be > transferred to a fish or plant area is a no-no? >It has been proven to work in nevada Please share your results with us. > .not everyone has access to expensive solutions, as valuable as they may be, one can also use cpvc .I am at the commercial level, costs are very apparent at this stage, If you choose to use cpvc you will have a lower heat transfer rate compared to stainless. It is consistent with laws of physics that cpvc is a better insulator than stainless. Lets start with a stainless steel system that works perfectly. Now let's pull out the stainless steel heat exchanger and replace it with a cpvc one with the exact same dimensions. You go on a road trip and get a call that your fish are having problems. But why?? Since cpvc has a poorer heat exchange RATE than stainless it could not transfer the heat to the aquaponics setup as fast as the stainless could and the fish got cold. Let's rebuild the cpvc exchanger to transfer the same amount of heat as the stainless one. Pumping costs due to friction loss will not be increased in a cpvc system if the additional tubing is paralleled and/or pipe size increased. The heat is transferred due to contact time and a slower rate of flow will facilitate the additional contact time needed for heat transfer in lots of additional paralleled pipes. It takes a LOT of additional tubing, bigger distribution tubing and a MUCH wider barrel - a HUGE barrel! Lots of sweat equity. Let's price stainless .not as expensive as one might think, some stainless CAN be soldered so don't need those expensive fittings, swaging tools so don't have to solder if there's a lot to do. Lessee - what's my time worth?$ Later add things up and found we spent about the same as if had used stainless in the first place. Bummer. Cpvc seemed so cheap per foot at the hardware store. In engineering there's a saying that "all parts are free". It's kind of a perverse way of saying that you're going to spend the money ANYWAY YOU DO IT so do it right in the first place. If a reasonable approach is taken in design - parts always seem to cost about the same for a given end result. There's also the "rule of tens". It takes ten seconds to do it fast, 100 seconds to do it right, ten minutes to figure out why it won't work after it's done fast, 100 minutes to repair it right, etc. There's a matter of rational thought. If you don't have the time or money to do it right then how can you expect your results to be right? If you don't have the time or money to do it right then when will you? If you don't have the time or money to do it right in the first place then HOW IN THE WORLD did you manage to do it over again?? Bottom line is if I use cheap parts they fail sooner or I have to use more to get the same result as the expensive ones so I spend the same. An owner gets paid for "sweat equity" but sometimes it's simply false economy as the stainless and cpvc would cost the same MONEY anyway for the same heat transfer ability and the owner would have saved time. .purchase .we are not rich folk in this industry, rather seeking need methods, and costs and simplicity are very real. The methods and simplicity are basically the same. The materials costs or perception of costs are what is the issue. Do a true future worth analysis based on GOOD HOMEWORK of the technique you choose. What is it REALLY going to cost for a given result? | Message 8 Subject: Re: Please Help From: "Louis N. Scerbo" Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 14:23:05 -0400 Gerry I must tell you that was a low shot. I know what you mean. and invite anyone to come and check. As a new subscriber to the list I hope you all are not like this. My question was sincere. I have retired recently and have moved to PA where I've purchased 16 acres where I hope to do all the things ie: gardening, small scale husbandry, etc. If you all don't want to help a guy just starting out just ignore my pot!!!! Lou gerry magnuson wrote: > do I smell burning weeds? > > >> From: "Louis N. Scerbo" >> Reply-To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com >> To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com >> Subject: Please Help >> Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2001 23:16:14 -0400 >> >> I would like to try to set up a system in my basement. The reason I >> want to do it in my basement is I feel even though it will cost me much >> more money for Lighting ie: metal halide and high pressure sodium, as a >> first system it will be cheaper than a greenhouse with heating. >> I live in Northeastern Pennsylvania so I'd need supplemental >> lighting in the winter anyway. >> I plan a system with a 300 gal. round tank, PolyTank, PT-6530, with >> one each 1000W metal halide and 1000W high pressure sodium. >> How many fish and PD-4902 PolyTank trays should I use? >> What about the humidity issue? >> >> Thank you all in advance for your help, >> Lou >> > > > > > > > | Message 9 Subject: Re: Please Help From: "Louis N. Scerbo" Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 14:35:35 -0400 Thanks Andrei, I've already done everything you suggested The blueboard,ligt color and all. I would like a little more specific info on how many fish to edible size can I expect. How many trays can a 300 gal tank handle. I'd like to grow tomatoes, greens, broccoli to start. Lou Andrei Calciu wrote: >go to http://www.heatpipe.com they sell high performance dehumidifiers. >Instead of putting the water down the drain, you can have the dehumidifier >dump the water back in the fish tank. > >You may also want to consider painting your basement in the brightest white >color you can find and possibly installing drywall (the humidity resistant >kind used in bathrooms - called blueboard, I think) on the ceiling of your >basement. This will keep the humidity from migrating upwards toward the >living space. Use oil based paints (they do not allow humidity to be >absorbed into the drywall. Coupled with a high performance dehumidifier, >you should be sitting in butter after that. > >-_______________ >Andrei D. Calciu (VA-4270) >NEC America, Inc. >14040 Park Center Dr. >Herndon, VA 20171-3227 > >Voice: 703-834-4273 >Fax: 703-787-6613 > >This message and any attachment are confidential. If you are not the >intended recipient, please telephone or email the sender and delete the >message and any attachment from your system. If you are not the intended >recipient you must not copy this message or attachment or disclose the >contents to any other person. > > > | Message 10 Subject: stainless steel From: Arlus Farnsworth Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 11:35:37 -0700 ok, so there is a new laser welding process that can form strip stainless steel and titanium into virtually seamless extremely clean tubes at a lower price. Did not know that. About stainless steel. Stainless steel is available in various grades that consist of different alloy composition. Only certain grades are suitable for food contact. In addition, there are different ways of making tube that need to be considered. Tube is often manufactured with lubricant that either is or is not cleaned. Some cleaning processes are designed to meet food standards and others are not. Tubes are often welded, laser welding and some other methods do not contribute to seam corrosion. One manufacturer heat treats welded tubes to crystalize the metal and significantly lessen corrosion. A type of tubing that seemed appropriate and possibly cheap was called beverage tubing. I would check the specs in any case. Also, many dehumidifiers and air conditioning units use copper or aluminum coils, if that is of concern. | Message 11 Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Tue 09/04/01 From: DAVEINBHAM 'at' aol.com Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 14:41:25 EDT In a message dated 9/5/01 12:09:51 AM Central Daylight Time, aquaponics-digest-request 'at' townsqr.com writes: << Subject: Re: heat exchangers and collectors From: "gerry magnuson" Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 05:44:39 -1000 run copper coils on your roof, install a couple of backflow peventers, use a grundfos pump, have the water pipes of copper coils submerged in a 55 gallon drum to heat water to be put into the fish tanks .forget your radiators, not even good for making shine . >>> ****************************************************************************** **** What is " a grundfos pump,"? Regards, Dave | Message 12 Subject: Re: Please Help From: Andrei Calciu Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 14:46:45 -0400 Louis, at full grown size you should have about 150-200 fish (weight 1.5 to 2 pounds) in a 300 gallon tank. At that size you could probably support 1-2 grow beds of roughly 32 square feet each (4'x8' about 12" deep). What you grow and how much you grow in these beds, and what shape and size you make them, is pretty much up to you. For example, you can build two beds 4x8 or two beds 2x16 or two beds 1x32, or any combination thereof, just keep the depth to about 1 foot to give room to your roots and have enough medium for the bacteria to live on. Good luck. -_______________ Andrei D. Calciu (VA-4270) NEC America, Inc. 14040 Park Center Dr. Herndon, VA 20171-3227 Voice: 703-834-4273 Fax: 703-787-6613 This message and any attachment are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please telephone or email the sender and delete the message and any attachment from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you must not copy this message or attachment or disclose the contents to any other person. "Louis N. Scerbo" To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com Sent by: cc: aquaponics-request 'at' t Subject: Re: Please Help ownsqr.com 09/06/01 02:35 PM Please respond to aquaponics Thanks Andrei, I've already done everything you suggested The blueboard,ligt color and all. I would like a little more specific info on how many fish to edible size can I expect. How many trays can a 300 gal tank handle. I'd like to grow tomatoes, greens, broccoli to start. Lou Andrei Calciu wrote: >go to http://www.heatpipe.com they sell high performance dehumidifiers. >Instead of putting the water down the drain, you can have the dehumidifier >dump the water back in the fish tank. > >You may also want to consider painting your basement in the brightest white >color you can find and possibly installing drywall (the humidity resistant >kind used in bathrooms - called blueboard, I think) on the ceiling of your >basement. This will keep the humidity from migrating upwards toward the >living space. Use oil based paints (they do not allow humidity to be >absorbed into the drywall. Coupled with a high performance dehumidifier, >you should be sitting in butter after that. > >-_______________ >Andrei D. Calciu (VA-4270) >NEC America, Inc. >14040 Park Center Dr. >Herndon, VA 20171-3227 > >Voice: 703-834-4273 >Fax: 703-787-6613 > >This message and any attachment are confidential. If you are not the >intended recipient, please telephone or email the sender and delete the >message and any attachment from your system. If you are not the intended >recipient you must not copy this message or attachment or disclose the >contents to any other person. > > > | Message 13 Subject: Re: Please Help From: Mick Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 14:17:07 -0500 Louis N. Scerbo wrote: > Thanks Andrei, > > I've already done everything you suggested > The blueboard,ligt color and all. > I would like a little more specific info on how many fish to edible size > can I expect. How many trays can a 300 gal tank handle. I'd like to grow > tomatoes, greens, broccoli to start. > > Lou > > --- > Lou, I've been doing this about a year so I'm no great expert. From a newbie's perspective, let me say that if this is your first aquaponic project there is a huge learning curve. So much to learn about providing an environment beneficial to both plants and fish. If you are planning on raising tilapia in your 300 gal tank, you might consider starting with around 100 fish. The ratios of fish to water vary depending on system but the one we're using is 2 gal per 1 pound of fish. So, if you raise 100 fish to one pound each, you still have a bit to spare. It's important not to overstock while you learn how a bio-filter works or how to design a plant tray that will be able to handle the conversion from your fish tank. Ammonia levels can become toxic very quickly even if you don't overstock. Overstocking makes any and all problems critical in no time at all. What we did was set up a bio-filter to clean the fish water and keep the fish alive while we built the plant tray. As your plant tray's medium matures and you have some plants establishing root growth in the tray, you gradually phase out the bio-filter. Our bio-filter was a 30 gal plastic drum filled with bio-balls and filter material in front of the intake and outlet openings. The water from the fish tank was pumped thru this and gravity sent the clean water back to the fish tank. Cheap to build and no moving parts. Hope some of this helps good luck! Mick | Message 14 Subject: Re: Water Water everywhere.From: Arlus Farnsworth Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 12:44:07 -0700 And be sure to use food grade or potable materials! Arlos wrote: > > The water (condensate) from an airconditioner (HVAC) is highly acidic and > generally requires being sent to waste treatment in the electronics > industry. I wouldn't try and collect it for reuse. Most common cause of low pH found in condensate water in the range of 4-5 is from dissolved CO (carbon monoxide), CO2 and specific cation (in the case of condensate sumps when condensate is recovered). Just make sure your condensate is not dumping into metal waste piping in the basement, specifically a cast iron "P" trap of service weight as in time the low pH will eat through the trap and clay/ sand soils will leech into the trap and plug. PVC and ABS should be used. Best practice would be to build a small sump to allow 2 hours or more contact time using calcite, finely crushed limestone or marble (there are commercial mixes available that are hot in trade terms to raise the pH of acidic waters) That would allow the pH to raise to 7-8 before discharge or recovery. Hope this clarifies the issue a bit. Arlos | Message 15 Subject: Re: Please Help From: kris book Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 14:30:54 -0600 Lou, I doubt that setting up a system in your basement will save you money in the long run. When you set up a greenhouse,your major expenditures are up front but, an indoor operation will cost you month after month. When I was growing veggies year round at 6,00 ft. elevation, I had to move all my plants indoors for at least a couple of weeks every January. The degree of difficulty went up considerably, because when you grow indoors, you must essentially become Mother Nature. You have to be responsible for every single thing that plants need to survive. If you are determined to go on, I suggest you go to your local gro-light store and get a book for indoor marijuana growing. These guerilla growers have figured out some incredible techniques that can at least match production of winter greenhouse growing. Plants grown indoors go south in a hurry when deficiencies or excesses come into play. You will find that your basement probably has molds, funguses, and mildews that are almost unnoticeable because it stays realitvely cool down there but, the heat from your lights will activate every living thing that is in your basement. Nothing will kill your plants faster than stale air, so make sure you have good ventilation. CO2 injection is very important if you want good fruit set, without it you'll only grow pretty green plants but not much food. I hope I haven't discouraged you, because growing food 12 months a year is very satisfying. I count the 7 years that I grew year round as the best time of my life but, the first couple of years were full of failures. Don't get in a hurry and do lots of reading. If you want to know more about indoor stuff you can write me off list. One last thing, 5 years of success more than made up for the first couple of years. kris book On Wed, 05 Sep 2001 23:16:14 -0400 "Louis N. Scerbo" writes: > I would like to try to set up a system in my basement. The > reason I > want to do it in my basement is I feel even though it will cost me > much > more money for Lighting ie: metal halide and high pressure sodium, > as a > first system it will be cheaper than a greenhouse with heating. > I live in Northeastern Pennsylvania so I'd need supplemental > lighting in the winter anyway. > I plan a system with a 300 gal. round tank, PolyTank, PT-6530, > with > one each 1000W metal halide and 1000W high pressure sodium. > How many fish and PD-4902 PolyTank trays should I use? > What about the humidity issue? > > Thank you all in advance for your help, > Lou > > | Message 16 Subject: RE: Please Help From: "Ron Brooks" Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 16:55:13 -0400 Lou it can be done , I had all my breeders in my basement for the longest time. And to top it off I used soft sided kiddy pools. In the beginning all my breeders were in a total recirculation system , and I stocked them at 1 per 10 gallons. Now I realize you are looking for figures for a whole nother kettle of fish so to speak , so if you are looking just to have fresh for your family and some veggies while learning it is very doable . contact me off list with all your questions and I will try to answer them . Oh I think you were asking how many to stock , well it will depend on a lot of factors , like whether or not you are going to supplement air and such , while most will recommend 1/2 pound per gallon . Let me tell you this is not doable in a basement situation unless you are aerating the water with outside air , trust me there just is not enough of an air exchange in a basement environment to support this . My recommendation is 1 pound for every 4 gallons of water. I stressed out way to many fish and myself trying to keep the D.O. above 1ppm in the beginning before learning I could not recycle the basement air into my tanks and NEEDED to bring in a lot of fresh air . Plus in the beginning It was uncomfortable to be down by the tanks for any length of time until I started bringing in outside air to refresh the O2 levels down in the basement . Now I understand you plan to grow plants down there too and they can use the CO2 , but in the beginning it is better to have to few and grow into the system then to much and get frustrated and then junk the expense of the system Ron -> -----Original Message----- -> From: aquaponics-request 'at' townsqr.com -> [mailto:aquaponics-request 'at' townsqr.com]On Behalf Of Louis N. Scerbo -> Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 11:16 PM -> To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com -> Subject: Please Help -> -> -> I would like to try to set up a system in my basement. The reason I -> want to do it in my basement is I feel even though it will cost me much -> more money for Lighting ie: metal halide and high pressure sodium, as a -> first system it will be cheaper than a greenhouse with heating. -> I live in Northeastern Pennsylvania so I'd need supplemental -> lighting in the winter anyway. -> I plan a system with a 300 gal. round tank, PolyTank, PT-6530, with -> one each 1000W metal halide and 1000W high pressure sodium. -> How many fish and PD-4902 PolyTank trays should I use? -> What about the humidity issue? -> -> Thank you all in advance for your help, -> Lou -> -> | Message 17 Subject: Re: Please Help From: BMac1978 Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 17:36:28 EDT --part1_d4.bd19d14.28c9465c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/6/2001 1:24:31 PM Central Daylight Time, writes: > I must tell you that was a low shot. I know what you mean. and invite > anyone to come and check. > As a new subscriber to the list I hope you all are not like this. > My question was sincere. I have retired recently and have moved to PA > where I've purchased 16 acres where I hope to do all the things ie: > gardening, small scale husbandry, etc. > If you all don't want to help a guy just starting out just ignore my pot!!!! > > Lou > Lou, I am also new, and I have to say that this group is very informative, but they like to have fun too! Don't take anything like that to heart, if it bothers you, just assume that it was him that was wishing it he could!!! (ha, ha) You've got to admit guys, we have some great personalities here! Everything in the news group can help you, and the rest you've just got to not worry about it! I too considered my basement, but my computer is down there and I didn't want to chance messing that up! Fortunately, I have another option and have decided to set up in our attached garage that is insulated. Anyway, I think it was meant as a joke, and if it wasn't, go ahead and take it as so, no reason to ruin your day over it! Keep us posted, it sounds like your goals are similar to mine. Warmly, Dawn Michigan --part1_d4.bd19d14.28c9465c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/6/2001 1:24:31 PM Central Daylight Time,
writes:


I must tell you that was a low shot. I know what you mean. and invite
anyone to come and check.
As a new subscriber to the list I hope you all are not like this.
My question was sincere. I have retired recently and have moved to PA
where I've purchased 16 acres where I hope to do all the things ie:
gardening, small scale husbandry, etc.
If you all don't want to help a guy just starting out just ignore my pot!!!!

Lou


L
ou,
 I am also new, and I have to say that this group is very informative, but
they like to have fun too!  Don't take anything like that to heart, if it
bothers you, just assume that it was him that was wishing it he could!!! (ha,
ha)   You've got  to admit guys, we have some great personalities here!
Everything in the news group can help you, and the rest you've just got to
not worry about it!  I too considered my basement, but my computer is down
there and I didn't want to chance messing that up!  Fortunately, I have
another option and have decided to set up in our attached garage that is
insulated.
 Anyway, I think it was meant as a joke, and if it wasn't, go ahead and take
it as so, no reason to ruin your day over it!
 Keep us posted, it sounds like your goals are similar to mine.

Warmly,
Dawn
Michigan
--part1_d4.bd19d14.28c9465c_boundary-- | Message 18 Subject: boiler copper From: "Steven Medlock" Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 17:31:48 -0500 Ok I am glad I asked, I guess I have got lucky with the copper coil in the tank. If I used the coil in the 55 gal. barrel idea wouldn't that also contaminate my system? Why in 6 months have I had no ill effects with the copper in the tank? Just hit and miss? So they do make an exchanger that is able to have the hot water passed through it and not contaminate the tank? Someone please tell me where again I can check them out. Thanks, Red | Message 19 Subject: Re: boiler copper From: Arlus Farnsworth Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 17:45:00 -0700 If you put the copper coil with the steel drum, it will act like a battery and corrode the "terminals" (coil and drum). Copper ions will be released gradually even without the battery effect. How long that takes and whether it reaches a toxic level for your fish depends on various factors. For instance how much water is in the tank, how much copper is exposed, total dissolved solids in the water (nitrate reacts with copper, as someone said), does it get changed out at all. The food itself might not be balanced well for your requirements. Steven Medlock wrote: > > Ok I am glad I asked, I guess I have got lucky with the copper coil in the > tank. If I used the coil in the 55 gal. barrel idea wouldn't that also > contaminate my system? Why in 6 months have I had no ill effects with the > copper in the tank? Just hit and miss? | Message 20 Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Tue 09/04/01 From: "gerry magnuson" Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 15:12:41 -1000 hi uall, a grundfos pump (sp?) is a small voltage pump, common at any plumbing store(wholesale), 1/8 hp or better, very efficient and not costly .have seen many used in the solar industry, and small projects. >From: DAVEINBHAM 'at' aol.com >Reply-To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com >To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com >Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Tue 09/04/01 >Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 14:41:25 EDT > >In a message dated 9/5/01 12:09:51 AM Central Daylight Time, >aquaponics-digest-request 'at' townsqr.com writes: > ><< Subject: Re: heat exchangers and collectors > From: "gerry magnuson" > Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 05:44:39 -1000 > > > run copper coils on your roof, install a couple of backflow peventers, >use a > grundfos pump, have the water pipes of copper coils submerged in a 55 >gallon > drum to heat water to be put into the fish tanks .forget your radiators, > not even good for making shine . >>> >****************************************************************************** > >**** > >What is " a grundfos pump,"? > >Regards, >Dave | Message 21 Subject: Re: Please Help From: "gerry magnuson" Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 15:20:56 -1000 lou, if you can't handle humor, you are in the wrong business .most all products used, can be used for illegal means also, if fact, many of the good products on the market, are the result of illegal activity .in your neck of the woods, I would not be surprised as to how many systems are doing as you do, just a fact of life .cowboy >From: "Louis N. Scerbo" >Reply-To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com >To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com >Subject: Re: Please Help >Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 14:23:05 -0400 > >Gerry > >I must tell you that was a low shot. I know what you mean. and invite >anyone to come and check. >As a new subscriber to the list I hope you all are not like this. >My question was sincere. I have retired recently and have moved to PA >where I've purchased 16 acres where I hope to do all the things ie: >gardening, small scale husbandry, etc. >If you all don't want to help a guy just starting out just ignore my >pot!!!! > >Lou > >gerry magnuson wrote: > >>do I smell burning weeds? >> >> >>>From: "Louis N. Scerbo" >>>Reply-To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com >>>To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com >>>Subject: Please Help >>>Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2001 23:16:14 -0400 >>> >>> I would like to try to set up a system in my basement. The reason I >>>want to do it in my basement is I feel even though it will cost me much >>>more money for Lighting ie: metal halide and high pressure sodium, as a >>>first system it will be cheaper than a greenhouse with heating. >>> I live in Northeastern Pennsylvania so I'd need supplemental >>>lighting in the winter anyway. >>> I plan a system with a 300 gal. round tank, PolyTank, PT-6530, with >>>one each 1000W metal halide and 1000W high pressure sodium. >>> How many fish and PD-4902 PolyTank trays should I use? >>> What about the humidity issue? >>> >>>Thank you all in advance for your help, >>>Lou >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > | Message 22 Subject: Re: Please Help From: "Thomas Short" Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 18:40:16 -0700 =_NextPart_001_0000_01C13703.5F37B340 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ok for those of you that are just starting and looking for a place to put= a small setup. Check out this web site. It will show you to make a Small= Greenhouse for around $100 that you can use for the first year or two. http://www.ns.net~bennu/bkyd/green.html =20 =20 ----- Original Message ----- From: Louis N. Scerbo Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 11:24 AM To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com Subject: Re: Please Help =20 >> I would like to try to set up a system in my basement. The reason = I >> want to do it in my basement is I feel even though it will cost me muc= h >> more money for Lighting ie: metal halide and high pressure sodium, as= a >> first system it will be cheaper than a greenhouse with heating. >> I live in Northeastern Pennsylvania so I'd need supplemental >> lighting in the winter anyway. >> I plan a system with a 300 gal. round tank, PolyTank, PT-6530, with >> one each 1000W metal halide and 1000W high pressure sodium. >> How many fish and PD-4902 PolyTank trays should I use? >> What about the humidity issue? >> >> Thank you all in advance for your help, >> Lou >> > > > > > > >Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn= .com =_NextPart_001_0000_01C13703.5F37B340 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ok for those o= f you that are just starting and looking for a place to put a small setup= . Check out this web site. It will show you to make a Small Greenhouse fo= r around $100 that you can use for the first year or two.
&nbs= p;
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Louis N. Scerbo
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 11:= 24 AM
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr= .com
Subject: Re: Please Hel= p
 

>>    I would like to t= ry  to set up a system in my basement. The reason I
>> want= to do it in my basement is I feel even though it will cost me much
&g= t;> more money for Lighting ie: metal  halide and high pressure s= odium, as a
>> first system it will be cheaper than a greenhouse= with heating.
>>    I live in Northeastern Penns= ylvania so I'd need supplemental
>> lighting in the winter anywa= y.
>>    I plan a system with a 300 gal. round ta= nk, PolyTank, PT-6530, with
>> one each 1000W metal halide and 1= 000W high pressure sodium.
>>    How many fish an= d  PD-4902 PolyTank trays should I use?
>>   = ; What about the humidity issue?
>>
>> Thank you all in= advance for your help,
>> Lou
>>
>
>
&g= t;
&= gt;
> http://explorer.msn= .com/intl.asp
>
>




Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download :

=_NextPart_001_0000_01C13703.5F37B340-- | Message 23 Subject: Re: Please Help From: "Thomas Short" Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 18:53:08 -0700 =_NextPart_001_0001_01C13705.2B69C240 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable OOPS!! I left out a "/" try this =20 http://www.ns.net/~bennu/bkyd/green.html =20 ----- Original Message ----- From: Thomas Short Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 6:49 PM To: aquaponics Subject: Re: Please Help =20 Ok for those of you that are just starting and looking for a place to put= a small setup. Check out this web site. It will show you to make a Small= Greenhouse for around $100 that you can use for the first year or two. =20 http://www.ns.net~bennu/bkyd/green.html =20 =20 ----- Original Message ----- From: Louis N. Scerbo Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 11:24 AM To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com Subject: Re: Please Help =20 >> I would like to try to set up a system in my basement. The reason = I >> want to do it in my basement is I feel even though it will cost me muc= h >> more money for Lighting ie: metal halide and high pressure sodium, as= a >> first system it will be cheaper than a greenhouse with heating. >> I live in Northeastern Pennsylvania so I'd need supplemental >> lighting in the winter anyway. >> I plan a system with a 300 gal. round tank, PolyTank, PT-6530, with >> one each 1000W metal halide and 1000W high pressure sodium. >> How many fish and PD-4902 PolyTank trays should I use? >> What about the humidity issue? >> >> Thank you all in advance for your help, >> Lou >> > > > > > > > Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.c= omGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.ms= n.com =_NextPart_001_0001_01C13705.2B69C240 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
OOPS!! I&= nbsp;left out a "/" try this
 
=
----- Original Message -----
From:= Thomas Short
Sent: Thursday= , September 06, 2001 6:49 PM
To:= aquaponics
Subject: Re:= Please Help
 
Ok for those of you that are ju= st starting and looking for a place to put a small setup. Check out this = web site. It will show you to make a Small Greenhouse for around $100 tha= t you can use for the first year or two.
 
 
----- Origin= al Message -----
From: Louis N. Scerbo
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 11:24 AM
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Subject: Re: Please Help
&nbs= p;

>>    I would like to try  to set u= p a system in my basement. The reason I
>> want to do it in my b= asement is I feel even though it will cost me much
>> more money= for Lighting ie: metal  halide and high pressure sodium, as a
&g= t;> first system it will be cheaper than a greenhouse with heating.>>    I live in Northeastern Pennsylvania so I'd ne= ed supplemental
>> lighting in the winter anyway.
>>&nb= sp;   I plan a system with a 300 gal. round tank, PolyTank, PT-= 6530, with
>> one each 1000W metal halide and 1000W high pressur= e sodium.
>>    How many fish and  PD-4902 P= olyTank trays should I use?
>>    What about the = humidity issue?
>>
>> Thank you all in advance for your= help,
>> Lou
>>
>
>
> ______________= ___________________________________________________
> Get your FREE= download of MSN Explorer at
>
= >
>




Get more from = the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download :



Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download :

=_NextPart_001_0001_01C13705.2B69C240-- | Message 24 Subject: Re: heat exchangers and collectors From: (Bruce Schreiber) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 21:04:20 -0500 (CDT) That's fine gerry just as long as not a drop of fish tank water comes in contact with copper!. Most of the damage happens only when your systems biomas is at the upper level of fish load maybe 2 months before your harvest date after you have signed your delivery contracts and have all of your processors,supermarkets and shops convinced that they should give you a chance( your 1 and only chance against their better judgement)Life is good. And than one day your automatic water changer goes on the blink or the fish load over loads the system and you needed 2 water changes per week because of a heavier fish load due to the near harvest weights of your livestock .Your system goes Acidic from the fish waste, the copper sulphates shoot to the moon,all of the fish die over night,your standing looking at the dead fish thinking what your going to tell the banker,processor,market and your wife that's been complaining about the lack of money and is she going to split town with a used car sales man all because of a little copper pipping that you thought would be ok . Why risk It?? Bruce | Message 25 Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Tue 09/04/01 From: "Thomas Short" Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 19:05:47 -0700 =_NextPart_001_0002_01C13706.EFE3CDE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is the web page: http://www.us.grundfos.com/web/grundfos.nsf =20 ----- Original Message ----- From: gerry magnuson Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 6:28 PM To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Tue 09/04/01 =20 hi uall, a grundfos pump (sp?) is a small voltage pump, common at any plumbing store(wholesale), 1/8 hp or better, very efficient and not costly .have seen many used in the solar industry, and small projects. >From: DAVEINBHAM 'at' aol.com >Reply-To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com >To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com >Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Tue 09/04/01 >Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 14:41:25 EDT > >In a message dated 9/5/01 12:09:51 AM Central Daylight Time, > >What is " a grundfos pump,"? > >Regards, >Dave /intl.as= pGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn= .com =_NextPart_001_0002_01C13706.EFE3CDE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This is the we= b page:
 
=
----- Original Message -----
From: gerry magnuson=
Sent: Thursday, September 0= 6, 2001 6:28 PM
To: aquaponi= cs 'at' townsqr.com
Subject: Re: = Aquaponics Digest - Tue 09/04/01
 
hi uall, a grundf= os pump (sp?) is a small voltage pump, common at any
plumbing store(wh= olesale), 1/8 hp or better, very efficient and not
costly .have seen = many used in the solar industry, and small projects .




>From: DAVEINBHAM 'at' aol.com
>Reply-To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com=
>To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest = - Tue 09/04/01
>Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 14:41:25 EDT
>
>I= n a message dated 9/5/01 12:09:51 AM Central Daylight Time,

>>What is " a  grundfos pump,"?
>
>Regards,
>D= ave


___= _______
http://explorer.msn.= com/intl.asp



Get mo= re from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download :

=_NextPart_001_0002_01C13706.EFE3CDE0-- | Message 26 Subject: Re: Please Help From: "Chris Jeppesen" Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 19:10:23 -0700 Lou the volume of the grow bed should equal that of the tank. Start low on fish density and work up went you get to .4 to .5 lbs per gal. start culling or havesting let your water quality be your guide. >>> >>> I would like to try to set up a system in my basement. The reason I >>> want to do it in my basement is I feel even though it will cost me much >>> more money for Lighting ie: metal halide and high pressure sodium, as a >>> first system it will be cheaper than a greenhouse with heating. >>> I live in Northeastern Pennsylvania so I'd need supplemental >>> lighting in the winter anyway. >>> I plan a system with a 300 gal. round tank, PolyTank, PT-6530, with >>> one each 1000W metal halide and 1000W high pressure sodium. >>> How many fish and PD-4902 PolyTank trays should I use? >>> What about the humidity issue? >>> >>> Thank you all in advance for your help, >>> Lou >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> | Message 27 Subject: Re: heat exchangers and collectors From: "gerry magnuson" Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 16:11:53 -1000 hi uall, bruce .there was a pathology class, and the instructor told the students to watch everything he did and repeat all exact moves .he turned the cadaver over and inserted his middle finger in the anus .he then with drew his finger, and inserted the finger next to it in his mouth .the students cringed, but all did the same thing .what they failed to notice is the use of the different finger in the mouth as many have commented on what I have written about copper and cpvc .I am not using either in my system .I gave an alternative for a heat exchange system, no mention of using the copper in with the fish, conclusions have been made, and all with good results .we are back on track with aquaponics .now, give us your secrets with your success with tomatoes .cowboy >From: (Bruce Schreiber) >Reply-To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com >To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com >Subject: Re: heat exchangers and collectors >Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 21:04:20 -0500 (CDT) > >That's fine gerry just as long as not a drop of fish tank water comes in >contact with copper!. Most of the damage happens only when your systems >biomas is at the upper level of fish load maybe 2 months before your >harvest date after you have signed your delivery contracts and have all >of your processors,supermarkets and shops convinced that they should >give you a chance( your 1 and only chance against their better >judgement)Life is good. And than one day your automatic water changer >goes on the blink or the fish load over loads the system and you needed >2 water changes per week because of a heavier fish load due to the near >harvest weights of your livestock .Your system goes Acidic from the fish >waste, the copper sulphates shoot to the moon,all of the fish die over >night,your standing looking at the dead fish thinking what your going to >tell the banker,processor,market and your wife that's been complaining >about the lack of money and is she going to split town with a used car >sales man all because of a little copper pipping that you thought would >be ok . > Why risk It?? > Bruce > | Message 28 Subject: Re: Please Help From: "Thomas Short" Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 19:12:30 -0700 =_NextPart_001_0003_01C13707.DFFD4220 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Try this! http://www.ns.net/~bennu/bkyd/green.html =20 ----- Original Message ----- From: Thomas Short Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 6:49 PM To: aquaponics Subject: Re: Please Help =20 Ok for those of you that are just starting and looking for a place to put= a small setup. Check out this web site. It will show you to make a Small= Greenhouse for around $100 that you can use for the first year or two. =20 http://www.ns.net~bennu/bkyd/green.html =20 =20 ----- Original Message ----- From: Louis N. Scerbo Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 11:24 AM To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com Subject: Re: Please Help =20 >> I would like to try to set up a system in my basement. The reason = I >> want to do it in my basement is I feel even though it will cost me muc= h >> more money for Lighting ie: metal halide and high pressure sodium, as= a >> first system it will be cheaper than a greenhouse with heating. >> I live in Northeastern Pennsylvania so I'd need supplemental >> lighting in the winter anyway. >> I plan a system with a 300 gal. round tank, PolyTank, PT-6530, with >> one each 1000W metal halide and 1000W high pressure sodium. >> How many fish and PD-4902 PolyTank trays should I use? >> What about the humidity issue? >> >> Thank you all in advance for your help, >> Lou >> > > > > > > > Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.c= om Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.c= omGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.ms= n.com =_NextPart_001_0003_01C13707.DFFD4220 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 Try this= !
----- Original Message= -----
From: Thomas Short
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 6:49 PM
To: aquaponics
= Subject: Re: Please Help
 
Ok for those= of you that are just starting and looking for a place to put a small set= up. Check out this web site. It will show you to make a Small Greenhouse = for around $100 that you can use for the first year or two.
&n= bsp;
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Louis N. Scerbo
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 1= 1:24 AM
To: aquaponics 'at' towns= qr.com
Subject: Re: Please H= elp
 

>>    I would like to= try  to set up a system in my basement. The reason I
>> wa= nt to do it in my basement is I feel even though it will cost me much
= >> more money for Lighting ie: metal  halide and high pressure= sodium, as a
>> first system it will be cheaper than a greenhou= se with heating.
>>    I live in Northeastern Pen= nsylvania so I'd need supplemental
>> lighting in the winter any= way.
>>    I plan a system with a 300 gal. round = tank, PolyTank, PT-6530, with
>> one each 1000W metal halide and= 1000W high pressure sodium.
>>    How many fish = and  PD-4902 PolyTank trays should I use?
>>  &nb= sp; What about the humidity issue?
>>
>> Thank you all = in advance for your help,
>> Lou
>>
>
>
= > >
> http://explorer.m= sn.com/intl.asp
>
>



=
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download :

=

Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download :=

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=_NextPart_001_0003_01C13707.DFFD4220-- | Message 29 Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Tue 09/04/01 From: "gerry magnuson" Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 16:17:04 -1000 excellent, thank you .cowboy >From: "Thomas Short" >Reply-To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com >To: "aquaponics" >Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Tue 09/04/01 >Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 19:05:47 -0700 > >This is the web page: >http://www.us.grundfos.com/web/grundfos.nsf > >----- Original Message ----- >From: gerry magnuson >Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 6:28 PM >To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com >Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Tue 09/04/01 > >hi uall, a grundfos pump (sp?) is a small voltage pump, common at any >plumbing store(wholesale), 1/8 hp or better, very efficient and not >costly .have seen many used in the solar industry, and small projects.> > > > > > >From: DAVEINBHAM 'at' aol.com > >Reply-To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com > >To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com > >Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Tue 09/04/01 > >Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 14:41:25 EDT > > > >In a message dated 9/5/01 12:09:51 AM Central Daylight Time, > > > > >What is " a grundfos pump,"? > > > >Regards, > >Dave > > > > >Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer >download : | Message 30 Subject: Re: Please Help From: "gerry magnuson" Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 16:20:09 -1000 or .www.hydroponicstore.com. >From: "Thomas Short" >Reply-To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com >To: "aquaponics" >Subject: Re: Please Help >Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 19:12:30 -0700 > > Try this! > http://www.ns.net/~bennu/bkyd/green.html >----- Original Message ----- >From: Thomas Short >Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 6:49 PM >To: aquaponics >Subject: Re: Please Help > >Ok for those of you that are just starting and looking for a place to put a >small setup. Check out this web site. It will show you to make a Small >Greenhouse for around $100 that you can use for the first year or two. > >http://www.ns.net~bennu/bkyd/green.html > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Louis N. Scerbo >Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 11:24 AM >To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com >Subject: Re: Please Help > > > >> I would like to try to set up a system in my basement. The reason I > >> want to do it in my basement is I feel even though it will cost me much > >> more money for Lighting ie: metal halide and high pressure sodium, as >a > >> first system it will be cheaper than a greenhouse with heating. > >> I live in Northeastern Pennsylvania so I'd need supplemental > >> lighting in the winter anyway. > >> I plan a system with a 300 gal. round tank, PolyTank, PT-6530, with > >> one each 1000W metal halide and 1000W high pressure sodium. > >> How many fish and PD-4902 PolyTank trays should I use? > >> What about the humidity issue? > >> > >> Thank you all in advance for your help, > >> Lou > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : > > > > >Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : >Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : > | Message 31 Subject: Re: Please Help From: (Bruce Schreiber) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 21:28:24 -0500 (CDT) Lou after a long day I have to get some sleep to be up by 3:30am for another 19hr. day tomorrow if you can wait a few days I will help you if some one else has not yet ok Bruce

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