Aquaponics Digest - Mon 09/10/01

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=_NextPart_001_0000_01C1398A.96271BA0-- | Message 3 Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Sun 09/09/01 From: "STEVE SPRING" Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 02:13:18 -0500 Hi Gang,, I had a kind of interesting night tonight. I have been trying to "get" this one particular "bird" who haunts my pond (day & night). He eats my frogs (who eat the mosquitoes), spears and kills my beautiful Koi just for the heluvit .had to put to rest my favorite fusha Koi .he/she was beautiful bright fusha with pure white fins I found him/her gasping at the pond's edge. There was nothing wrong with him/her except for a gaping hole right behind her/his gills. That SOB or Bitch killed him/her. Not for food. Just killed him/her. Well, I went out to the pond tonight and there that "King Tut" SOB was .walking around like he owned the place. Well, I went back into the house and brought out the artillery. When I came back to the pond, "ole Tut" was still there. But he was as still as a "church mouse". Took me several minutes to see him. I got him in my sights and let off several rounds. Well usually, he just takes off. This time, he was in "attack mode". He flew DIRECTLY AT ME!! I got off another round at probably 20' and then he was on me. I actually hit him with the barrel of the gun as he was "literally" on me. He fell into the field and then my gun jammed DAMMIT! I'll check the field in the morning. Hope to see his grizzly feathery ass as dead as yesterday's news. Guess the moral of this story is that I do love animals. But, I shoot squirrels because they eat enough food for a multitude of birds. I like birds more than a squirrel. I love exotic animals, but not if they come into my territory and eat up everything that I am trying to produce. How many mosquitos do one bird eat .NONE!! How many frogs do one bird eat a lot! Hold on now .I also have a Martin house. So, the major moral is, if you have a favorite bird that loves to eat frogs and Steve's fish, keep him/her away from Steve's place or he/she will be TOAST!! Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 1:36 AM Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Sun 09/09/01 Most so called environmentalists are xenophobic elitist hypocrites. They got THEIR home but you can't have yours. When you tear your home down and share a prairie dog hole with some flea bitten squirrel then I'll consider you an environmentalist. Til then I'll cheer on the bulldozer to start squishing. Marc Carolyn Hoagland wrote: > Well most days I find myself squarely in the camp of the radical > environmentalists. And I have to say that making a risk free (or > reduced risk) world has never entered my mind. I tend to lean in the > opposite direction. Me thinks you paint with a brush way too wide ---- Carolyn, I've been hesitant to say so on the list, but I'm an enviromental wacko as well. I've even been known to tree-sit and park my butt in front of bulldozers. It's often a futile effort in a battle with wealthy developers but I gotta try. Run for cover, Carolyn we're both gonna get flamed now! Mick | Message 4 Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Sun 09/09/01 From: "KenHale" Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 08:16:02 -0500 Steve- most of those " 'at' !%*^#" are federally protected with a $10,000.00 fine and jail time. It's best not to be discussing that type of problem over this media or even at the coffee shop. ----- Original Message ----- From: "STEVE SPRING" Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 2:13 AM Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Sun 09/09/01 > Hi Gang,, > > I had a kind of interesting night tonight. I have been trying to "get" this > one particular "bird" who haunts my pond (day & night). He eats my frogs > (who eat the mosquitoes), spears and kills my beautiful Koi just for the > heluvit .had to put to rest my favorite fusha Koi .he/she > was beautiful bright fusha with pure white fins I found > him/her gasping at the pond's edge. There was nothing wrong with him/her > except for a gaping hole right behind her/his gills. That SOB or Bitch > killed him/her. Not for food. Just killed him/her. > > Well, I went out to the pond tonight and there that "King Tut" SOB > was .walking around like he owned the place. Well, I went back into the > house and brought out the artillery. When I came back to the pond, "ole Tut" > was still there. But he was as still as a "church mouse". Took me several > minutes to see him. I got him in my sights and let off several rounds. Well > usually, he just takes off. This time, he was in "attack mode". He flew > DIRECTLY AT ME!! I got off another round at probably 20' and then he was on > me. I actually hit him with the barrel of the gun as he was "literally" on > me. He fell into the field and then my gun jammed DAMMIT! > > I'll check the field in the morning. Hope to see his grizzly feathery ass as > dead as yesterday's news. > > Guess the moral of this story is that I do love animals. But, I shoot > squirrels because they eat enough food for a multitude of birds. I like > birds more than a squirrel. I love exotic animals, but not if they come into > my territory and eat up everything that I am trying to produce. How many > mosquitos do one bird eat .NONE!! How many frogs do one bird > eat a lot! Hold on now .I also have a Martin house. > > So, the major moral is, if you have a favorite bird that loves to eat frogs > and Steve's fish, keep him/her away from Steve's place or he/she will be > TOAST!! > > Steve > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 1:36 AM > Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Sun 09/09/01 > > > Most so called environmentalists are xenophobic elitist > hypocrites. They got THEIR home but you can't have yours. > > When you tear your home down and share a prairie dog hole > with some flea bitten squirrel then I'll consider you an > environmentalist. > > Til then I'll cheer on the bulldozer to start squishing. > > Marc > > Carolyn Hoagland wrote: > > > Well most days I find myself squarely in the camp of the radical > > environmentalists. And I have to say that making a risk free (or > > reduced risk) world has never entered my mind. I tend to lean in the > > opposite direction. Me thinks you paint with a brush way too wide > > ---- > > Carolyn, > > I've been hesitant to say so on the list, but I'm an > enviromental wacko as > well. I've even been known to tree-sit and park my butt in > front of > bulldozers. It's often a futile effort in a battle with > wealthy > developers but I gotta try. > > Run for cover, Carolyn we're both gonna get flamed now! > Mick > > > | Message 5 Subject: Opposing Flows From: spettels 'at' newnorth.net Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 08:34 +0100 Hey there everyone! It's been a long time since we've posted to the list and even then it was only twice. We're not ready for an aquaponics system yet, but maybe soon. Right now, we are raising perch on a flow-through, gravity flow, spring fed system. We have had a successful year (our 10 5,000 gallon tanks are full, with more out in the ponds) and are looking for a good recirculating system. We have heard a little about an opposing flows system. We would like to know more about them. Has anyone on the list heard about them, know what they are, or where we could find out about them? One more question, is there any one on the list raising perch in the S&S system? Thanks for any help you can give, Larry and Sarah Spettel | Message 6 Subject: Re: Freshwater Tuna & shark From: Andrei Calciu Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 10:41:00 -0400 There are no fresh water sharks that I know of, however, the bull sharks can survive extended periods in fresh water, possibly forever in brackish water. I do not think you want to do this, as they tend to get huge and you will need a Sea World class tank to hold them -_______________ Andrei D. Calciu (VA-4270) NEC America, Inc. 14040 Park Center Dr. Herndon, VA 20171-3227 Voice: 703-834-4273 Fax: 703-787-6613 This message and any attachment are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please telephone or email the sender and delete the message and any attachment from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you must not copy this message or attachment or disclose the contents to any other person. "Frank Stancato" om> cc: Sent by: Subject: Freshwater Tuna & shark aquaponics-request 'at' t ownsqr.com 09/09/01 02:15 PM Please respond to aquaponics Anyone tried the freshwater tuna and how does it taste as compared to the saltwater variety? What about fresh water shark. I have been having trouble at finding anything on the web, maybe too tired from getting home from juniors first football game of the season. Thanks in advance for the help. Frank | Message 7 Subject: Fish Biology Training From: "Bayma, Benjamin" Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 09:03:10 -0600 Greetings from new subscribers, Does anyone know of a correspondence course I can take about Fish Biology? I need more information about Tilapia, fish nutrition, fish dieases, etc. I am hoping that I can add this as a credential on my resume for my business plan. The banks like to see you have some background when you apply for a loan. Regards to the Group Benjamin and Louise | Message 8 Subject: Re: algae eating tilapia off flavor From: James Robert Igou Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 11:37:02 -0400 (EDT) Howdy Carolyn, Actually, you'd be surprised just how easy it is to sell tilapia (even those with a slightly off-taste)in my area. I live in Delaware (which is close to the New York metropolitan area)and most of the production in our area goes to Chinese live markets. These markets pay a premium for live fish and we make considerably more than if they were sold to any other buyers. Frankly, I think the Chinese are more concerned with receiving healthy live fish than with a slightly off-flavor. However, off-flavor is a signicant concern in most markets as it can ruin repeat sales. One only has to look at how careful catfish producers are about this matter to realize its overall importance. Now as to UVI's system, I am not familiar with their product, but I am familiar with fish raised in algae filled environments (I've raised quite a few). As anyone who fishes for fresh water fish can tell you, the flavor of a fish is affected by the water it lives in. Green water by itself may not be enough to affect the taste of UVI's tilapia. If the water smells reasonably clean its unlikely the fish would have an off-flavor. What we were actually discussing were conditions where there was an excess of algae or where the tilapia actually consumed significant quantities of algae (as I've said before, they seem to enjoy eating filamentous algae). As long as tilapia don't receive most of their diet in this form and don't spend their entire lives living in a system with poor water quality off-flavor shouldn't be a problem. On a final note, it does appear to be possible to purge off-flavor fish. Locally, I know of one producer in Blackbird Delaware that utilizes a small holding tank for just that purpose. Fish that he intends to send to market are placed in this system for up to a week (without feed) before they are sold. Apparently this proceedure gives his fish a higher quality flavor. While I myself have never tried this it sounds like it would be worth investigating. Once again, take care one and all. Jim On Sun, 9 Sep 2001, Carolyn Hoagland wrote: > Jim Wrote> > >This, of course, is not a good solution as tilapia that eat significant > >quantities of algae develop an off-flavor. > > How does UVI handle that? From their website, it looks like their > fish are swimming in green sludge? They sell a lot of fish (to repeat > customers), so I can't image they taste bad.> Carolyn > | Message 9 Subject: Steve's story From: "Marc Laberge" Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 11:32:26 -0400 Thanks for the laughs Steve .I love your hilarious stories ! So what if you go to jail ! just kidding . Marc Laberge Mont Tremblant Quebec , Canada | Message 10 Subject: Re: wide brush alert! From: James Robert Igou Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 11:46:09 -0400 (EDT) Ouch! Hey, personally I've met a few people on the fringe who didn't have a clue and were basing their opinions on bad science, half-baked ideas, and other forms of lunacy. However, most people even those on the far left deserve some consideration. Besides, your use of the word "stupid" offends me. Even while bouncing ideas and messages back and forth with Ted I never considered using that adjective. Then again, perhaps your message is more correct than you think. Stupid IS as stupid does. Jim On Sun, 9 Sep 2001, gerry magnuson wrote: > stupid is as stupid does, one may admire your courage, but one can't say > much for your judgement .cowboy > > > > > > > > >From: Mick > >Reply-To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com > >To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com > >Subject: Re: wide brush alert! > >Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2001 12:27:31 -0500 > > > > > > > >Carolyn Hoagland wrote: > > > > > Well most days I find myself squarely in the camp of the radical > > > environmentalists. And I have to say that making a risk free (or > > > reduced risk) world has never entered my mind. I tend to lean in the > > > opposite direction. Me thinks you paint with a brush way too wide > > > >---- > > > >Carolyn, > > > >I've been hesitant to say so on the list, but I'm an enviromental wacko as > >well. I've even been known to tree-sit and park my butt in front of > >bulldozers. It's often a futile effort in a battle with wealthy > >developers but I gotta try. > > > >Run for cover, Carolyn we're both gonna get flamed now! > >Mick > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > | Message 11 Subject: Discussion stoppers From: "Lloyd R. Prentice" Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 14:44:10 -0400 Hello, marc wrote: > Most so called environmentalists are xenophobic elitist > hypocrites. They got THEIR home but you can't have yours. > > When you tear your home down and share a prairie dog hole > with some flea bitten squirrel then I'll consider you an > environmentalist. > > Til then I'll cheer on the bulldozer to start squishing. > I genuinely treasure the diversity of views, information and discussion on this list. But a good way to stop discussion cold is to fire off personal flames, putdowns or attacks or degrogatory categorical statements about one group or another. I've been following this list for several years now and it seems to me that there has been more of this in recent months than I remember in the past. I would much welcome a constructive discussion, argument even, between those concerned about property and individual rights and those concerned about environmental preservation/ protection. There are certainly core values hidden in this debate that go to the heart of the aquaponics endeavor, but I'm not sure that any of us yet see the optimal balance here. But I would only welcome this discussion/argument if it is grounded in specific personal experience, verifiable facts, reason, willingness to listen and understand, and a genuine attempt to find a better way for all of us. Marc, I have much appreciated your many informed contributions to this list. But this particular posting, while it may well be motivated by genuine and understandable anger, is far beneath your usual reasoned intelligence. Please be more specific in your brief against environmentalists and don't be defensive when others question your assumptions, facts or conclusions. Best wishes, Lloyd R. Prentice | Message 12 Subject: Re: Copper and Oil and Our Lovely OPEC Friends From: Arlus Farnsworth Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 12:32:27 -0700 Ok, now we're getting somewhere . what is a good way to determing copper levels? Is copper the most likely nutrient to become concentrated? How would a copper "sink" be reasonably constructed? Would this be similar to the bog iron ore? Certain mushrooms are known to concentrate available metals. > In order to have a 96 hour lethal concentration dose of copper in solution > that might kill 50% of some sensitive species of test organisms, you might > have to have about 250 ppb free Cu ions in solution, which pretty much > requires pH levels less than 8, me thinks off the top of me head .> > That is a level which is not acutely toxicity but chronically toxic in > other words it takes about a quarter of a ppm of Cu ions in free solution > which is pretty gosh darn high for hard water systems, and the higher the > hardness of the water (that is, the more carbonate around the joint) the > more copper it takes to be toxic to aquatic organisms for what, about a week > or so of exposure? . > > And yes, like an aquarium, even a BIG recirculation system that accumulates > small amounts of copper or any other nutrient over very long periods of time > without water exchange or permanent "sinks" removing said element (copper is > a nutrient, as is zinc, selenium, boron, etc, all of which can be toxic to > varying degrees at higher concentrations) could result in problems, no > doubt. > | Message 13 Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Sun 09/09/01 From: Arlus Farnsworth Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 12:57:06 -0700 Someone from around here had to spend time in jail because he shot an owl that was disturbing his football game on tv. Fines and lifetime care for the disabled bird included. My brother killed the neighbors chickens with a bb gun, just for fun. | Message 14 Subject: ph of dehumidifier water From: Arlus Farnsworth Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 13:07:21 -0700 well, I tested and ph was around 6.5 for dehumidifier and air conditioner. Both use plastic sump collection bins. | Message 15 Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Sun 09/09/01 From: Andrei Calciu Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 15:55:24 -0400 I guess your jail bird neighbor (pun intended) could not bring himself to eat the evidence ;-) -_______________ Andrei D. Calciu (VA-4270) NEC America, Inc. 14040 Park Center Dr. Herndon, VA 20171-3227 Voice: 703-834-4273 Fax: 703-787-6613 This message and any attachment are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please telephone or email the sender and delete the message and any attachment from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you must not copy this message or attachment or disclose the contents to any other person. Arlus Farnsworth To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com Sent by: cc: aquaponics-request 'at' t Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Sun 09/09/01 ownsqr.com 09/10/01 03:57 PM Please respond to aquaponics Someone from around here had to spend time in jail because he shot an owl that was disturbing his football game on tv. Fines and lifetime care for the disabled bird included. My brother killed the neighbors chickens with a bb gun, just for fun. | Message 16 Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Sun 09/09/01 From: Arlus Farnsworth Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 13:18:48 -0700 heheh I think there may have been witnesses -urp Andrei Calciu wrote: > > I guess your jail bird neighbor (pun intended) could not bring himself to > eat the evidence ;-) > > -_______________ > Andrei D. Calciu (VA-4270) > NEC America, Inc. > 14040 Park Center Dr. > Herndon, VA 20171-3227 > > Voice: 703-834-4273 > Fax: 703-787-6613 > > This message and any attachment are confidential. If you are not the > intended recipient, please telephone or email the sender and delete the > message and any attachment from your system. If you are not the intended > recipient you must not copy this message or attachment or disclose the > contents to any other person. > > > Arlus Farnsworth > To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com > Sent by: cc: > aquaponics-request 'at' t Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Sun 09/09/01 > ownsqr.com > > > 09/10/01 03:57 PM > Please respond to > aquaponics > > > > Someone from around here had to spend time in jail because he shot an > owl that was disturbing his football game on tv. Fines and lifetime care > for the disabled bird included. My brother killed the neighbors chickens > with a bb gun, just for fun. | Message 17 Subject: Tree !?!? question From: Andrei Calciu Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 16:24:32 -0400 Folks, I ran into a fantastic tree. My parents live in Virginia (and so do I) and on one of their trips around the Blue Ridge mountains they found a tree with large leaves. They liked it and brought a leaf home that they haphazardly stuck in a flower pot. The leave survived, sprung roots and in November 1999 they planted the sapling in the ground (wrong time of the year, right?). Well, the sucker survived the winter, in 2000 grew to about 6-7 feet in height. During the following winter, the leaves and fledgeling branches fell and only a straight stick was left. We all mourned the tree's death . prematurely. In spring it came back to life, and now it has reached the top of the second floor (about 17 feet) and the leaves are at least 16 inches across (the bottom, largest ones). Somebody said the scientific name of the tree is "bulova imperialis" (not sure of spelling), and I was wondering if anybody known about this tree that seems to be indigenous to Northern Virginia. In particular, I would like to know where I could buy a bunch of them to plant around the house. They sure look better than your standard fare of trees around my overly developed region and if they continue growing 8 feet per year, in 10 years I can build a log cabin without having to buy lumber :-) If anybody can help, please let me know. Next week I will visit my parents again and I will take some digital pictures to post for those interested. Thanks, -_______________ Andrei D. Calciu (VA-4270) NEC America, Inc. 14040 Park Center Dr. Herndon, VA 20171-3227 Voice: 703-834-4273 Fax: 703-787-6613 This message and any attachment are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please telephone or email the sender and delete the message and any attachment from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you must not copy this message or attachment or disclose the contents to any other person. | Message 18 Subject: Re: Tree !?!? question From: kris book Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 16:34:14 -0600 Andrei, That sure sounds like a paulownia tree. Do a Google search and you'll find a wealth of info. You're going to like what you see! This tree is harvested at 8-10 years(16" diameter) and then it regenerates and you can harvest the same tree each 8-10 years for who knows how long. Lumber is just the best thing about Paulownia trees. Check out this first link to compare the tree you described. The other two are good for lots more info. kris book http://www.jademountain.com/FarmRanch/paulownia/24moPaul.html http://www.jademountain.com/FarmRanch/paulownia.html http://www.jademountain.com/FarmRanch/paulownia/paulownia_data.html | Message 19 Subject: Re: Discussion stoppers From: kris book Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 18:16:04 -0600 Lloyd, Thank you for that well written appeal for simple manners. This is a subject that is discussed on nearly every list that I subscribe to and at last count I think that was 13 lists. Even on spiritual lists there regularly is someone that believes their point of view is the only correct point of view. I suggest that the members of the list spend a little time on the solution to this problem, and maybe we will see the last of rudeness around here. kris | Message 20 Subject: Re: Steve's story From: "STEVE SPRING" Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 23:16:00 -0500 Bad part is that I still missed him .even after he did his pterodactyl (sp) dive at me. To add insult to injury, "King Tut" was still walking the pond this morning. (2 more rounds and he went flying .missed again.) I went to the Army surplus store this morning. Flame throwers and grenade launchers are on back order. I placed an ad in Mercenaries Inc. (By the way, I did check with the DNR last year and this bird is NOT on the endangered species list. This may be a Big Robin that I'm fighting with. It really doesn't matter. He is still alive & I'm going crazy!) Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Laberge" To: "aqua" Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 10:32 AM Subject: Steve's story Thanks for the laughs Steve .I love your hilarious stories ! So what if you go to jail ! just kidding . Marc Laberge Mont Tremblant Quebec , Canada | Message 21 Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Sun 09/09/01 From: "STEVE SPRING" Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 23:34:42 -0500 Hi Arlus, If you were raising sheep or cattle and the coyote, wolves and cougars were killing and eating your livestock, wouldn't you do something about it? Sure you would. But, that is o.k. Right?? 'splain the difference to me. I'm just like that rancher/farmer. I operate on a very small profit/loss scenario. I don't hunt, fish or any of these; but, if an animal/bird threatens my business .Oh Well! It is not that this SOB doesn't have adequate feeding grounds available. He/she has just staked out my little pond as his/her private property. As I said previously, the SOB is TOAST eventually! Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arlus Farnsworth" Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 2:57 PM Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Sun 09/09/01 Someone from around here had to spend time in jail because he shot an owl that was disturbing his football game on tv. Fines and lifetime care for the disabled bird included. My brother killed the neighbors chickens with a bb gun, just for fun.