Aquaponics Digest - Tue 09/11/01
Message 1: Re: Discussion stoppers (long yak)
from Mick
Message 2: Re: Steve's story
from "Robert Rogers"
Message 3: Re: Tree !?!? question - ID = Paulownia
from Andrei Calciu
Message 4: unsubscribe
from "Michael & Maureen Wellik"
Message 5: Re: Tree !?!? question - ID = Paulownia
from "Louis N. Scerbo"
Message 6: Re: Tree !?!? question
from James Robert Igou
Message 7: Re: Tree !?!? question
from "Laura Dalton"
Message 8: Re: Tree !?!? question - ID = Paulownia
from "Robert Rogers"
Message 9: Terrorism
from "Leslie Ter Morshuizen"
Message 10: Re: Tree !?!? question
from Jim Joyner
Message 11: Re: Discussion stoppers (long yak)
from "dyarrow"
Message 12: Re: Discussion stoppers (long yak)
from "Lloyd R. Prentice"
Message 13: Re: Terrorism
from BMac1978
Message 14: Re: Tree !?!? question - ID = Paulownia
from kris book
Message 15: Re: Steve's story
from (Bruce Schreiber)
Message 16: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Mon 09/10/01
from "Stephanie Rankin"
Message 17: Re: Terrorism
from (Bruce Schreiber)
Message 18: Re: Tree !?!? question
from "dyarrow"
Message 19: reply to - Re: Terrorism
from "David Atkinson"
| Message 1
Subject: Re: Discussion stoppers (long yak)
From: Mick
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 01:12:39 -0500
Lloyd R. Prentice wrote:
> I would much welcome a constructive discussion, argument even, between those
> concerned about property and individual rights and those concerned about
> environmental preservation/ protection. There are certainly core values
> hidden in this debate that go to the heart of the aquaponics endeavor, but
> I'm not sure that any of us yet see the optimal balance here.
>
> Lloyd R. Prentice
-----
Lloyd,
That was a well thought out and well written post. Thank you.
I was kidding about getting flamed, but as it turns out, perhaps it was a
prophetic bit of humor. The "stupid" comment and "xenophobic" "hypocrit" made
me sad but I refuse to send return flames. It's just not my style. I also
wouldn't presume to know enough about any individual on this list to attack
anyone's stance on this (or any other) issue. Human beings come to believe
whatever they believe because of their own unique individual experience of
life. How could I possibly know what leads another person to believe as they
do?
You asked for personal experience on this issue. My experience is as personal
as it gets. I became actively involved in environmental issues when a loved one
contracted cancer from exposure to highly polluted water. Until that time, like
most human beings, I was content to let others worry about the big issues of
life. I was too busy paying bills and feeding a family.
Nine months after Don went to work at Kelly Air Force base, he contracted
leukemia. He was in his early forties, and until that time, he was in
excellant health. Two months later, his good friend (also in his forties) who
worked in another building on base contracted leukemia. Odd coincidence?
Nothing wrong with the water, or so the government said. Then reports started
coming in about a number of people contracting ALS (Lou Gehrig's disease). ALS
is extremely rare. National figures are 1 to 16 people in a 100,000
population. The causes are unknown and it is 100 % fatal, usually within four
months. The number of people on base with the disease range from 80 to
hundreds depending on source. The amazing thing is that for the most part, they
all worked in the same two buildings. So that's 80 people out of a population
of what? 400 tops?
The number of people with cancer hasn't been compiled yet. From my own
research, I can say that it's going to shock people when it comes out. .
The government has now admitted that the drinking water on base was contaminated
with the chemicals used to clean jet engines. The plume has traveled to the
neighborhoods surrounding the base. To make matters worse there is a an old
refinery leaking chemicals into the aquifer. In addition to Kelly AFB (where
Don worked), Randolph AFB closed down because the drinking water became
unpotable. The taps ran black with fuel oil. One million people in the San
Antonio area drink water from the aquifer.
This was my environmental wake-up call. I've been busy educating myself on the
subject. I'd give ANYTHING if I'd never had this particular wake-up call but I
can't go back to a time of innocence.
My involvement trying to save trees also comes from a personal experience but
this post will become a book if I list all the things that lead me to believe as
I do.
The Native Americans say noone owns the land. We lease it from our children.
Before anyone jumps on that statement, I believe they mean that we are the
stewards of our land. What will we leave for those who follow us? I do this
for my children and for Don, and yes, even if the bulldozers squish me. I'm
already a very short woman
I'll just be short and flat! ::smile::
It is rather ironic that the folks on this list could feel so passionate about
both sides of this issue. Aquaponics is the most environmentally sound idea
human beings have had in a while. One would think there would be more
environmentalist involved. If it turns out that I'm a minority, it won't be the
first time and it's okay as long as the attacks aren't personal or assume that
I'm some airhead spouting about spotted owls.
A pleasant good evening to one and all,
Mick
| Message 2
Subject: Re: Steve's story
From: "Robert Rogers"
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 09:14:20 -0400
----- Original Message -----
From: "STEVE SPRING"
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 12:16 AM
Subject: Re: Steve's story
> Bad part is that I still missed him
.even after he did his pterodactyl
(sp)
> dive at me. To add insult to injury, "King Tut" was still walking the pond
> this morning.
> (2 more rounds and he went flying
.missed again.)
You might try making a few loop snares, they work for your squirrel
friends too. Use monofilament fishing line. That or a few lessons with your
favorite firearm.
| Message 3
Subject: Re: Tree !?!? question - ID = Paulownia
From: Andrei Calciu
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 09:31:00 -0400
Kris,
and all who replied privately, It looks like the tree my folks have is
indeed the Paulownia. The leaves we have are not as floppy as the ones in
the fist picture that Kris sent, but the layout of the tree is the same,
and the size of the leaves is right.
This is so cool. Thanks for the links. Now I will go get 100-200 of these
suckers and I will plant them around the property. I am guessing 15-20 foot
between trunks should be sufficient.
Thanks again,
-_______________
Andrei D. Calciu (VA-4270)
NEC America, Inc.
14040 Park Center Dr.
Herndon, VA 20171-3227
Voice: 703-834-4273
Fax: 703-787-6613
This message and any attachment are confidential. If you are not the
intended recipient, please telephone or email the sender and delete the
message and any attachment from your system. If you are not the intended
recipient you must not copy this message or attachment or disclose the
contents to any other person.
| Message 4
Subject: unsubscribe
From: "Michael & Maureen Wellik"
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 11:57:08 -0400
unsubscribe
| Message 5
Subject: Re: Tree !?!? question - ID = Paulownia
From: "Louis N. Scerbo"
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 13:12:23 -0400
Andei,
Please advise as to supplier you may find. I too would like to order some.
Lou
Andrei Calciu wrote:
>Kris,
>and all who replied privately, It looks like the tree my folks have is
>indeed the Paulownia. The leaves we have are not as floppy as the ones in
>the fist picture that Kris sent, but the layout of the tree is the same,
>and the size of the leaves is right.
>
>This is so cool. Thanks for the links. Now I will go get 100-200 of these
>suckers and I will plant them around the property. I am guessing 15-20 foot
>between trunks should be sufficient.
>
>Thanks again,
>-_______________
>Andrei D. Calciu (VA-4270)
>NEC America, Inc.
>14040 Park Center Dr.
>Herndon, VA 20171-3227
>
>Voice: 703-834-4273
>Fax: 703-787-6613
>
>This message and any attachment are confidential. If you are not the
>intended recipient, please telephone or email the sender and delete the
>message and any attachment from your system. If you are not the intended
>recipient you must not copy this message or attachment or disclose the
>contents to any other person.
>
>
>
| Message 6
Subject: Re: Tree !?!? question
From: James Robert Igou
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 13:25:23 -0400 (EDT)
Isn't that a Royal Paulownia (I could be wrong about the name). I
seem to remember this tree as a fast growing,large leafed plant with a
purplish flower (which appears in the Spring). The flowers don't smell
particularly pleasant. I've never heard of it being useful for lumber. I
assumed that since it was fast growing (like a poplar) that the wood would
be of low quality. If its the same tree I'm thinking of, we have them all
over my area. I'd love to know if the wood from these trees could be a
useful commodity. They spread like wildfire. They're hardy, grow
unbelievably fast, and require little attention. It sound interesting,
Andrei. How about keeping us informed?
Jim
On Mon, 10 Sep 2001, kris book wrote:
> Andrei,
>
> That sure sounds like a paulownia tree. Do a Google search and you'll
> find a wealth of info. You're going to like what you see! This tree is
> harvested at 8-10 years(16" diameter) and then it regenerates and you can
> harvest the same tree each 8-10 years for who knows how long. Lumber is
> just the best thing about Paulownia trees. Check out this first link to
> compare the tree you described. The other two are good for lots more
> info.
>
> kris book
>
>
> http://www.jademountain.com/FarmRanch/paulownia/24moPaul.html
>
> http://www.jademountain.com/FarmRanch/paulownia.html
>
> http://www.jademountain.com/FarmRanch/paulownia/paulownia_data.html
>
| Message 7
Subject: Re: Tree !?!? question
From: "Laura Dalton"
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 12:46:19 -0500
Jim:
Where are you located? The Paulownia sounds very interesting to us - we're
in So. Missouri
Laura E. Dalton
Victoria Gardens Bed & Breakfast
1461 State Route BB
West Plains, MO 65775
(417) 256-3268
www.victoria-gardens.com
----- Original Message -----
| Message 8
Subject: Re: Tree !?!? question - ID = Paulownia
From: "Robert Rogers"
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 13:55:43 -0400
Anyone growing these trees in florida?
----- Original Message -----
From:
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:31 AM
Subject: Re: Tree !?!? question - ID = Paulownia
>
> Kris,
> and all who replied privately, It looks like the tree my folks have is
> indeed the Paulownia. The leaves we have are not as floppy as the ones in
> the fist picture that Kris sent, but the layout of the tree is the same,
> and the size of the leaves is right.
| Message 9
Subject: Terrorism
From: "Leslie Ter Morshuizen"
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 20:00:49 +0200
To all USA citizens on the list, may I offer my sincerest condolences at
this time, especially to those of you who have loved ones who have either
been killed or injured in today's attacks. May God comfort you at this
time.
Leslie
| Message 10
Subject: Re: Tree !?!? question
From: Jim Joyner
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 14:49:49 -0500
Andrei.
If indeed you have a Paulownia, I'm not sure you want to make a log cabin
out of it. True, the wood is light, strong and seems never to rot; doesn't
check -- you can't split it! The Japanese make shoes and musical
instruments with them. Anyway, I harvested some of my paulownia trees. One
I couldn't reach around it. I got $1000 for the butt log.
Jim
At 04:24 PM 9/10/2001 -0400, you wrote:
>Folks,
>
>I ran into a fantastic tree. My parents live in Virginia (and so do I) and
>on one of their trips around the Blue Ridge mountains they found a tree
>with large leaves. They liked it and brought a leaf home that they
>haphazardly stuck in a flower pot. The leave survived, sprung roots and in
>November 1999 they planted the sapling in the ground (wrong time of the
>year, right?).
>
>Well, the sucker survived the winter, in 2000 grew to about 6-7 feet in
>height. During the following winter, the leaves and fledgeling branches
>fell and only a straight stick was left. We all mourned the tree's
>death
. prematurely. In spring it came back to life, and now it has
>reached the top of the second floor (about 17 feet) and the leaves are at
>least 16 inches across (the bottom, largest ones).
>
>Somebody said the scientific name of the tree is "bulova imperialis" (not
>sure of spelling), and I was wondering if anybody known about this tree
>that seems to be indigenous to Northern Virginia. In particular, I would
>like to know where I could buy a bunch of them to plant around the house.
>They sure look better than your standard fare of trees around my overly
>developed region and if they continue growing 8 feet per year, in 10 years
>I can build a log cabin without having to buy lumber :-)
>
>If anybody can help, please let me know. Next week I will visit my parents
>again and I will take some digital pictures to post for those interested.
>
>Thanks,
>-_______________
>Andrei D. Calciu (VA-4270)
>NEC America, Inc.
>14040 Park Center Dr.
>Herndon, VA 20171-3227
>
>Voice: 703-834-4273
>Fax: 703-787-6613
>
>This message and any attachment are confidential. If you are not the
>intended recipient, please telephone or email the sender and delete the
>message and any attachment from your system. If you are not the intended
>recipient you must not copy this message or attachment or disclose the
>contents to any other person.
| Message 11
Subject: Re: Discussion stoppers (long yak)
From: "dyarrow"
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 15:29:10 -0400
thanks for the thoughtful, respectful wisdom and compassion.
let's hope all list members sustain such a level of dignity in communication.
~ David Yarrow
Turtle EyeLand Sanctuary
44 Gilligan Road, East Greenbush, NY 12061
518-477-6100
www.championtrees.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mick"
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 2:12 AM
Subject: Re: Discussion stoppers (long yak)
> Lloyd,
>
> That was a well thought out and well written post. Thank you.
>
> I was kidding about getting flamed, but as it turns out, perhaps it was a
> prophetic bit of humor. The "stupid" comment and "xenophobic" "hypocrit"
made
> me sad but I refuse to send return flames. It's just not my style. I also
> wouldn't presume to know enough about any individual on this list to attack
> anyone's stance on this (or any other) issue. Human beings come to believe
> whatever they believe because of their own unique individual experience of
>
> [
snip
.]
>
> first time and it's okay as long as the attacks aren't personal or assume
that
> I'm some airhead spouting about spotted owls.
>
> A pleasant good evening to one and all,
> Mick
>
>
>
| Message 12
Subject: Re: Discussion stoppers (long yak)
From: "Lloyd R. Prentice"
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 17:55:56 -0400
Hi Mick,
Mick wrote:
> My experience is as personal
> as it gets. I became actively involved in environmental issues when a loved one
> contracted cancer from exposure to highly polluted water.
I'm responding to your beautiful post after spending most of the day trying to absorb today's
horrific tragedies. So I'm a bit touchy.
Somehow I believe that there are many deep connections between how we converse with one
another on this list; your terrible personal experience with ground-water pollution and
cancer, and your subsequent awakening to environmental issues; and the unspeakable violence
directed on the World Trade Center, the Pentagon, and our nation today.
But I'm certainly not wise enough to draw them out.
Forgive me, however, if I go on nevertheless -- even if it's perceived as off the topic of
fish and plants. It seems very important on this day, if nothing else, than to help
straighten out my own muddled thinking.
What we share on the aquaponics list, to my mind, is just about the best that cvilization has
to offer -- people who've never met, of many backgrounds, from many geographic locales,
sharing experience and information in a heartfelt attempt to improve not only their own
personal lives, but the lives of many others
The basic question is, why should two people who've never met, nor likely to, help one
another in either a general way or in a specific moment of need or crisis? And why should
many come together across an anonymous medium to give away their own best secrets of success?
The rewards that each of us draw from this list week after week provide one answer, I think.
The images on our TV screens today provide another.
No matter what our individual beliefs, we do live together on this lonely planet and share
many questions, fears, anxieties and problems in common. And, from what I can tell, no one,
of any given belief system, has cornered the answers or solutions to all that plagues us.
Nevertheless, both history and today's headlines demonstrate that civilization is paper thin.
There are many times in history and places on the globe where our most innocent conversations
on this list would simply be impossible due to oppressive power, social division or material
want. We see today that when our respective political/religious/philosophical/social beliefs
and ideologies so blind our intellects that we can no longer discuss mutual problems, we tend
to polarize, inflict verbal violence, demonize, diminish and murder. Unfortunately, when we
do so, we may be murdering the author or authors of the very best solutions to our very worst
problems.
Moreover, we invite even worse retaliation from "the other."
Thank you for your story, Mick. As you point out, another side to these issues is power and
the control of information. But that's another post, perhaps off list, entirely.
I would truly love to hear other stories related to personal vs. environmental
contradictions, including stories of people wronged by mistaken environmental action. And I'd
love even more to participate in thoughtful discussion that thrashes out the common ground. I
believe that the best answer to the cretins who attacked us today is show that civilization,
in the simple, but most remarkable form that this list embodies, works far better than their
alternatives.
The only other thought that occurs to me today is that the people who perpetuated today's
violence certainly have demonstrated our vulnerabilities. But what they don't understand is
that our vulnerability is our single greatest strength.
Thanks again,
Lloyd R. Prentice
| Message 13
Subject: Re: Terrorism
From: BMac1978
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 18:18:38 EDT
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In a message dated 9/11/2001 1:02:57 PM Central Daylight Time,
writes:
> To all USA citizens on the list, may I offer my sincerest condolences at
> this time, especially to those of you who have loved ones who have either
> been killed or injured in today's attacks. May God comfort you at this
> time.
>
> Leslie
>
>
Thank you so much Leslie, this has been rather terrifying. I cringe thinking
what tomorrow might bring.
Warmly,
Dawn
--part1_99.1a877abc.28cfe7be_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
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In a message dated 9/11/2001 1:02:57 PM Central Daylight Time,
writes:
To all USA citizens on the list, may I offer my sincerest
condolences at
this time, especially to those of you who have loved ones who have either
been killed or injured in today's attacks. May God comfort you at this
time.
Leslie
Thank you so much Leslie, this has been rather terrifying. I cringe thinking
what tomorrow might bring.
Warmly,
Dawn
--part1_99.1a877abc.28cfe7be_boundary--
| Message 14
Subject: Re: Tree !?!? question - ID = Paulownia
From: kris book
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 13:33:00 -0600
Andrei,
If memory serves correctly, there are a few varieties of paulownia tree.
Be aware of the climate you live in. These trees are tropical to
semitropical, here in So. Colorado they just grow into a big bush,
because winter harvests the main shoot each year. The leaves are still
good animal feed and the blossoms are good to eat in salad.
kris
On Tue, 11 Sep 2001 13:12:23 -0400 "Louis N. Scerbo"
writes:
> Andei,
>
> Please advise as to supplier you may find. I too would like to order
> some.
>
> Lou
>
> Andrei Calciu wrote:
>
> >Kris,
> >and all who replied privately, It looks like the tree my folks have
> is
> >indeed the Paulownia. The leaves we have are not as floppy as the
> ones in
> >the fist picture that Kris sent, but the layout of the tree is the
> same,
> >and the size of the leaves is right.
> >
> >This is so cool. Thanks for the links. Now I will go get 100-200 of
> these
> >suckers and I will plant them around the property. I am guessing
> 15-20 foot
> >between trunks should be sufficient.
> >
> >Thanks again,
> >-_______________
> >Andrei D. Calciu (VA-4270)
> >NEC America, Inc.
> >14040 Park Center Dr.
> >Herndon, VA 20171-3227
> >
> >Voice: 703-834-4273
> >Fax: 703-787-6613
> >
> >This message and any attachment are confidential. If you are not
> the
> >intended recipient, please telephone or email the sender and delete
> the
> >message and any attachment from your system. If you are not the
> intended
> >recipient you must not copy this message or attachment or disclose
> the
> >contents to any other person.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
| Message 15
Subject: Re: Steve's story
From: (Bruce Schreiber)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 21:11:03 -0500 (CDT)
Steve I always wondered what the reason the Texans lost at the Alamo
was, now I know they can't shoot straight! I wonder if that's Teds
problem with the golf course gophers?
Bruce
| Message 16
Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Mon 09/10/01
From: "Stephanie Rankin"
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 21:06:27 -0700
I know you wont believe this but there are fresh water sharks. I grew up in
Okeechobee FL and there were sharks in the lake. My Dad worked for Water
Management and was always yelling at us to Quit swimming in the
lake
awwwwwwww
memories
.LOL.
Stephanie
| Message 17
Subject: Re: Terrorism
From: (Bruce Schreiber)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 22:02:07 -0500 (CDT)
This day gentile lives were snuffed out to strike at America's heart.
and in answer millions of america's sons are lineing up to enlist to
kill those that did it.Today the grim reaper called us to arms,Tomorrow
God will sort out the good from the bad ! I predict we will be killing
all that today rejoice at this senseless act.
Citys! and Nations! will soon DIE for this.
so be it.
Bruce
| Message 18
Subject: Re: Tree !?!? question
From: "dyarrow"
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 22:26:13 -0400
before going crazy over this tree, better check the lists of invasive species
to be sure this fast growing, rapid spreading, bad smelling tree isn't an
undesireable. and nearly any fast growing tree has very soft, fast rotting
wood that makes poor lumber for building. often don't even make good
firewood.
a similar species is from china called "tree of heaven" (ailanthus altissima)
is fast growing, rapid spreading and nearly impossible to kill. it has become
better known as the "ghetto tree" which smells like dog urine. most states
now have programs to combat this invader. my state of new york has the
national champion, but we aren't even going to try to clone this one. we also
have the national champion poison sumac.
in south florida, the melaleuca and brazilian pepper tree have become similar
fast spreading, hard to supress undesireables.
the issue of invasive plant species has become serious -- acute in some
ecological niches. i believe the usda has a website with data on these
undesireables. sorry i don't have the web address handy.
~ David Yarrow
Turtle EyeLand Sanctuary
44 Gilligan Road, East Greenbush, NY 12061
518-477-6100
www.championtrees.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Robert Igou"
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 1:25 PM
Subject: Re: Tree !?!? question
> Isn't that a Royal Paulownia (I could be wrong about the name). I
> seem to remember this tree as a fast growing,large leafed plant with a
> purplish flower (which appears in the Spring). The flowers don't smell
> particularly pleasant. I've never heard of it being useful for lumber. I
> assumed that since it was fast growing (like a poplar) that the wood would
> be of low quality. If its the same tree I'm thinking of, we have them all
> over my area. I'd love to know if the wood from these trees could be a
> useful commodity. They spread like wildfire. They're hardy, grow
> unbelievably fast, and require little attention. It sound interesting,
> Andrei. How about keeping us informed?
>
> Jim
>
> On Mon, 10 Sep 2001, kris book wrote:
>
> > Andrei,
> >
> > That sure sounds like a paulownia tree. Do a Google search and you'll
> > find a wealth of info. You're going to like what you see! This tree is
> > harvested at 8-10 years(16" diameter) and then it regenerates and you can
> > harvest the same tree each 8-10 years for who knows how long. Lumber is
> > just the best thing about Paulownia trees. Check out this first link to
> > compare the tree you described. The other two are good for lots more
> > info.
> >
> > kris book
> >
> >
> > http://www.jademountain.com/FarmRanch/paulownia/24moPaul.html
> >
> > http://www.jademountain.com/FarmRanch/paulownia.html
> >
> > http://www.jademountain.com/FarmRanch/paulownia/paulownia_data.html
> >
>
>
| Message 19
Subject: reply to - Re: Terrorism
From: "David Atkinson"
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 23:47:18 -0400
My sentiments also.
David A
(from Jamaica W.I.)
----- Original Message -----
From: Leslie Ter Morshuizen
To: Aquaponics
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 2:00 PM
Subject: Terrorism
> To all USA citizens on the list, may I offer my sincerest condolences at
> this time, especially to those of you who have loved ones who have either
> been killed or injured in today's attacks. May God comfort you at this
> time.
>
> Leslie
>
>
>
|
