Aquaponics Digest - Wed 09/12/01
Message 1: Attack on USA
from Flip Fourie
Message 2: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Tue 09/11/01
from marc
Message 3: Re: Aquaponics - New York 09/11/01
from marc
Message 4: Re: Aquaponics - New York 09/11/01
from dreadlox
Message 5: unsubscribe
from "johnbierley"
Message 6:
from "johnbierley"
Message 7: Re: Tree !?!? question
from cmollison 'at' eoec.co.za (Chris Mollison)
Message 8: Re: Attack on USA
from "Juan C. Bobeda"
Message 9:
from "Bayma, Benjamin"
Message 10: Re: Tree !?!? question
from "Robert Rogers"
Message 11: Re: Tree !?!? question
from Jim Joyner
Message 12: Some comments on our recent tragedy
from "Gene Batten"
Message 13: Re: Terrorism
from Carolyn Hoagland
Message 14: Re: Tree !?!? question
from "bennett"
Message 15: Re: Discussion stoppers (long yak)
from "Dorothy Mann"
Message 16: Re: Terrorism
from Kathyann Natkie
Message 17: Re: Terrorism
from Jim Joyner
Message 18: Re: Tree !?!? question
from Jim Joyner
Message 19: Paulownia tree
from Andrei Calciu
Message 20: Re: Terrorism
from "KenHale"
Message 21: Google Search: paulownia tree
from kris book
Message 22: Re: Terrorism
from Jim Joyner
Message 23: Condolensenses and Strength From Vancouver Island, Can.
from "Southin Farms"
Message 24: Re: Terrorism
from "Lloyd R. Prentice"
Message 25: Re: our world changed
from Mick
Message 26: Re: Terrorism a reply to Jim
from "Brent Bingham"
Message 27: Re: Terrorism
from Elisheva Ruth
Message 28: Re: Terrorism
from James Robert Igou
Message 29: RE: Terrorism
from "Jorge Revenga"
Message 30: Re: Terrorism
from Jim Joyner
Message 31: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Tue 09/11/01
from "Lloyd R. Prentice"
Message 32: Re: Terrorism
from "KenHale"
Message 33: RE: Terrorism
from "Richard & Faye"
Message 34: Re: Terrorism
from kris book
Message 35: Terrior
from "Steven Medlock"
Message 36: Re: Terrorism
from "Frank Stancato"
Message 37: Re: Evironmentally & economically sound heating & light . from "TheStraits"
Message 38: Re: Terrorism
from "Brent Bingham"
Message 39: Re: Evironmentally & economically sound heating & light . from "Brent Bingham"
Message 40: Re: Terrorism
from Peggy & Emmett
Message 41: Re: Evironmentally & economically sound heating & light . from "TheStraits"
Message 42: Skolnick - US Government Had Prior Knowledge Of Emergency
from kris book
Message 43: Re: Steve's story
from "STEVE SPRING"
Message 44: Re: Steve's story
from "STEVE SPRING"
Message 45: Re: Some comments on our recent tragedy
from BMac1978
Message 46: Re: Tree !?!? question
from BMac1978
Message 47: Re: Terrior
from "Lloyd R. Prentice"
Message 48: Re: Terrorism
from BMac1978
Message 49: Re: Steve's story
from "Chris Jeppesen"
| Message 1
Subject: Attack on USA
From: Flip Fourie
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 08:07:41 +0200
To all the citizens of the USa on this list:
May the words on your banknotes "In God We Trust" be especially true in
these tragic and turbulent times in your lives, indeed in the lives of all
of us. Condolences to all of you who are worrying about loved ones or who
have lost any family or friends.
>From all of us in South Africa.
Philip Fourie.
PS:
I've been lurking on the list for the last 5-6 weeks and find it quit
stimulating and enjoy and LEARN A LOT out of the discussions.
PF
| Message 2
Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Tue 09/11/01
From: marc
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 00:58:51 -0600
I have received significant support off list but why off
list??
So we need reasoning?? Well not too much if one reads to
understand rather than refute.
It is problematic for those who choose to refute what they
never bothered to understand.
Marc Nameth
| Message 3
Subject: Re: Aquaponics - New York 09/11/01
From: marc
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 01:12:08 -0600
To the folks who have had disaster today.
Words are inadequate. It seems so unfair that they are so
trivial compared to the massive event New Yorkers were
subjected to.
While it's easy to claim I feel your pain it's only
a shadow of what a New Yorker must feel and it must be
nothing
compared to all of those everywhere who lost loved ones.
Out here in our circle of Colorado acquaintances we feel
rage, anger but also compassion and a incredible sadness.
Around me there is a strangely cold attitude about the
entities that brought this unimaginable violence. It seems
the reasons that could excuse the behavior are of no
interest or relevance as the "why" is so sick it needs to go
away.
We wept, shook with rage and have an unusually unified
resolve to support our fellow Americans in New York. Usually
we make jokes at the expense of New Yorkers but today
there's no humor as our brothers and sisters in the "Big
Apple" have been so incredibly violated.
Sincerely,
Marc Nameth, Family and Friends
| Message 4
Subject: Re: Aquaponics - New York 09/11/01
From: dreadlox
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 02:42:29 -0700
I concur. May God be with you all. Our prayers are with you all.
We have been glued to the set all day.
><{{{*> Mike & Sophie Barnett <*}}}><
JAMAICA, West Indies
marc wrote:
>
> Out here in our circle of Colorado acquaintances we feel
> rage, anger but also compassion and a incredible sadness.
Sincerely,
>
> Marc Nameth, Family and Friends
--
| Message 5
Subject: unsubscribe
From: "johnbierley"
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 05:01:53 -0400
| Message 6
Subject:
From: "johnbierley"
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 05:01:19 -0400
unsubscribe
| Message 7
Subject: Re: Tree !?!? question
From: cmollison 'at' eoec.co.za (Chris Mollison)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 11:49:31 +0200
Jim
Kris - please excuse my ignorance concerning trees. Please explain the
following in more depth to me. Offline is fine.
Why would Andrei not want to make a log cabinet out of it?
Is the fact that it doesn't check good or bad?
Is the $1000 good or bad relative to other trees?
Thanks
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Joyner"
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:49 PM
Subject: Re: Tree !?!? question
> Andrei.
>
> If indeed you have a Paulownia, I'm not sure you want to make a log cabin
> out of it. True, the wood is light, strong and seems never to rot; doesn't
> check -- you can't split it! The Japanese make shoes and musical
> instruments with them. Anyway, I harvested some of my paulownia trees. One
> I couldn't reach around it. I got $1000 for the butt log.
>
> Jim
| Message 8
Subject: Re: Attack on USA
From: "Juan C. Bobeda"
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 07:09:06 -0400
I agree, my sincere sympathies.
Juan C. Bobeda
Asuncion, Paraguay
Flip Fourie wrote:
> To all the citizens of the USa on this list:
> May the words on your banknotes "In God We Trust" be especially true in
> these tragic and turbulent times in your lives, indeed in the lives of all
> of us. Condolences to all of you who are worrying about loved ones or who
> have lost any family or friends.
> >From all of us in South Africa.
> Philip Fourie.
>
> PS:
> I've been lurking on the list for the last 5-6 weeks and find it quit
> stimulating and enjoy and LEARN A LOT out of the discussions.
> PF
| Message 9
Subject:
From: "Bayma, Benjamin"
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 07:17:14 -0600
unsubscribe
| Message 10
Subject: Re: Tree !?!? question
From: "Robert Rogers"
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 09:22:32 -0400
Jim
Checking refers to the cracks/splits in the ends of lumber or the
face of plywood.
You may not want to build a house out of wood that brings in more money than
you would have to spend at home depot for materials. I know only what I have
read onlist about this particular tree, but if they will bring $1000. each,
I wish I had about 250 of them ready to harvest.
My condolences to all with personal losses in yesterdays
inhumanity, and to all in the world that face this type of thing all the
time. We must pull together and wipe these type of people off the face of
the earth.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Mollison"
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 5:49 AM
Subject: Re: Tree !?!? question
> Jim
>
> Kris - please excuse my ignorance concerning trees. Please explain the
> following in more depth to me. Offline is fine.
>
> Why would Andrei not want to make a log cabinet out of it?
>
> Is the fact that it doesn't check good or bad?
>
> Is the $1000 good or bad relative to other trees?
>
> Thanks
>
> Chris
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Joyner"
>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:49 PM
> Subject: Re: Tree !?!? question
>
>
> > Andrei.
> >
> > If indeed you have a Paulownia, I'm not sure you want to make a log
cabin
> > out of it. True, the wood is light, strong and seems never to rot;
doesn't
> > check -- you can't split it! The Japanese make shoes and musical
> > instruments with them. Anyway, I harvested some of my paulownia trees.
One
> > I couldn't reach around it. I got $1000 for the butt log.
> >
> > Jim
>
>
| Message 11
Subject: Re: Tree !?!? question
From: Jim Joyner
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 08:24:45 -0500
Chris
At 11:49 AM 9/12/2001 +0200, you wrote:
>Jim
>
>Kris - please excuse my ignorance concerning trees. Please explain the
>following in more depth to me. Offline is fine.
>
>Why would Andrei not want to make a log cabinet out of it?
I believe he said cabin, but I'd have a hard time building a house out of
such valuable wood. I guess if you have enough of it, it would be OK --
just the Scrooge in me, I guess.
>Is the fact that it doesn't check good or bad?
The fact that it wont't check is good. Now splitting it is something else,
if you have to. Actually, it's a beautiful wood to work with. It's light,
almost like balsa, but much stronger. It's funny in that it has a hole
right in the middle of the log.
Also, the Paulownia has big beautiful clusters of flowers in the spring.
There are places here in Tennessee where roads are naturally lined with
them -- a sight to see in the spring -- the seed typically
sprouts/germinates after the soil has been radically broken or burned.
>Is the $1000 good or bad relative to other trees?
I've seen a similar walnut get $250. Yellow Pine, $35. It is a very
valuable wood.
Jim
>Thanks
>
>Chris
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jim Joyner"
>
>Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:49 PM
>Subject: Re: Tree !?!? question
>
>
> > Andrei.
> >
> > If indeed you have a Paulownia, I'm not sure you want to make a log cabin
> > out of it. True, the wood is light, strong and seems never to rot; doesn't
> > check -- you can't split it! The Japanese make shoes and musical
> > instruments with them. Anyway, I harvested some of my paulownia trees. One
> > I couldn't reach around it. I got $1000 for the butt log.
> >
> > Jim
| Message 12
Subject: Some comments on our recent tragedy
From: "Gene Batten"
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 10:02:37 -0400
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
=_NextPart_000_0038_01C13B72.0CFE7DC0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Aquaponic Friends,
The world changed yesterday in ways that we can not yet appreciate. =
This time, the tragedy was in the United States. Where will the next =
target be? Until now, we in the USA have been fortunate, and maybe naive =
in thinking that this type of tragedy would not happen here. We have =
become accustomed to seeing scenes of destruction in other countries, =
but not here. Our turn has come and we will deal with it. Our leaders =
are reacting in a mature and responsible way, and we will aggressively =
seek ways to put an end to the intolerable growth of world terrorism. =
Who knows how all this will play out in the future? I fear that things =
will get worse before they get better, and our world will become =
increasing more hostile and unpredictable. =20
Those of us around the world who are interested in aquaponics and =
related activities can play an important role in this unfolding world =
drama. By continuing to research and develop reliable and dependable =
means of growing safe and sustainable food, we can help prevent some =
terrorist group from using food as a weapon. Some future attack might =
include biological or chemical weapons directed at food and water =
supplies. By sharing our knowledge of the relatively new science of =
aquaponics, we can all help each other to be stronger and more self =
reliant. The world truly is becoming a "global village" and a threat to =
any one of us is a threat to all of us.=20
"Thank You" to all of you on this list outside of the USA who have =
expressed sympathy. Let's continue to share our ideas and questions =
about aquaponics with the common goal of helping each other to spread =
and share this technology around the world for the mutual benefit of =
all.
God Bless America,
Gene Batten
Raleigh, North Carolina, USA=20
=_NextPart_000_0038_01C13B72.0CFE7DC0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Aquaponic Friends,
The world =
changed=20
yesterday in ways that we can not yet appreciate. This time, the tragedy =
was in=20
the United States. Where will the next target be? Until now, we in the =
USA have=20
been fortunate, and maybe naive in thinking that this type of =
tragedy would=20
not happen here. We have become accustomed to seeing scenes of =
destruction in=20
other countries, but not here. Our turn has come and we will deal with =
it. Our=20
leaders are reacting in a mature and responsible way, and we will=20
aggressively seek ways to put an end to the intolerable growth of world=20
terrorism. Who knows how all this will play out in the future? =
I fear=20
that things will get worse before they get better, and our world will =
become=20
increasing more hostile and unpredictable.
Those of us =
around the=20
world who are interested in aquaponics and related activities can play =
an=20
important role in this unfolding world drama. By continuing to =
research and=20
develop reliable and dependable means of growing safe and sustainable =
food, we=20
can help prevent some terrorist group from using food as a weapon. Some =
future=20
attack might include biological or chemical weapons directed at food and =
water=20
supplies. By sharing our knowledge of the relatively new science of =
aquaponics,=20
we can all help each other to be stronger and more self reliant. The =
world truly=20
is becoming a "global village" and a threat to any one of us is a threat =
to all=20
of us.
"Thank You" to =
all of you=20
on this list outside of the USA who have expressed sympathy. Let's =
continue=20
to share our ideas and questions about aquaponics with the common=20
goal of helping each other to spread and share this technology =
around=20
the world for the mutual benefit of all.
God Bless America,
Gene Batten
Raleigh, North Carolina,=20
USA
=_NextPart_000_0038_01C13B72.0CFE7DC0--
| Message 13
Subject: Re: Terrorism
From: Carolyn Hoagland
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 09:06:30 -0500
Bruce,
We don't know who did this yet, or why. People who have feel they
have a say in the decision making process generally don't have to
resort to terrorism. This could have been done by 8 americans (2 each
plane) who were fed up with what _they_ call the "military industrial
complex." I don't get the newscasters who keep saying this is
_obviously_ a well financed and highly trained force from some foreign
nation. Eight plane tickets, four cell phones, one shared $30 copy of
flight simulator, and a desperate world view could have done it.
In my wildest nightmares, I could not imagine the carnage we saw on TV
yesterday. I cried for a long time when we saw those buildings come
down with 10's of thousands of people inside. Everyone one of them
was somebody's son or daughter
I know that revenge is the first instinct. But when passion governs,
it never governs wisely. We need to ask who, and why, before we
decide what our next move should be.
Carolyn
>Bruce Schreiber wrote
>This day gentile lives were snuffed out to strike at America's heart.
>and in answer millions of america's sons are lineing up to enlist to
>kill those that did it.Today the grim reaper called us to arms,Tomorrow
>God will sort out the good from the bad ! I predict we will be killing
>all that today rejoice at this senseless act.
> Citys! and Nations! will soon DIE for this.
> so be it.
> Bruce
| Message 14
Subject: Re: Tree !?!? question
From: "bennett"
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 10:07:06 -0400
>almost like balsa, but much stronger. It's funny in that it has a hole
>right in the middle of the log.
>
>Also, the Paulownia has big beautiful clusters of flowers in the spring.
>There are places here in Tennessee where roads are naturally lined with
>them -- a sight to see in the spring -- the seed typically
>sprouts/germinates after the soil has been radically broken or burned.
>
Is this what we in Appalachia call catalpa? Nicknames are catabie, cigar
tree, greenbean tree, etc.? The wood is beautiful, looking much like
sassafras, light weight, can have a spike driven with 1/4 inch of the end
and never split, yada yada. It nearly always grows with many suckers and
hollow centers.
| Message 15
Subject: Re: Discussion stoppers (long yak)
From: "Dorothy Mann"
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 09:24:38 -0500
Hi Mick,
I grew up in San Antonio ( North TX now). Mom worked at Kelly in the '50s.
It was like a large sleepy village then. There were few freeways ( I
remember a loop around town) and most of the country was farms. The air and
water were clean. We fished in the Medina River. It was full of fish that
were good to eat. It is so sad that things have changed. My sympathies are
with you.
Becky Hines
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mick"
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 1:12 AM
Subject: Re: Discussion stoppers (long yak)
> Nine months after Don went to work at Kelly Air Force base, he contracted
> leukemia. He was in his early forties, and until that time, he was in
> excellant health. Two months later, his good friend (also in his forties)
who
> worked in another building on base contracted leukemia. Odd coincidence?
| Message 16
Subject: Re: Terrorism
From: Kathyann Natkie
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 10:21:53 -0400
Bruce Schreiber wrote:
>
> This day gentile lives were snuffed out to strike at America's heart.
> and in answer millions of america's sons are lineing up to enlist to
> kill those that did it.Today the grim reaper called us to arms,Tomorrow
> God will sort out the good from the bad ! I predict we will be killing
> all that today rejoice at this senseless act.
> Citys! and Nations! will soon DIE for this.
> so be it.
> Bruce
Today we show America's heart. The lines at the blood centers are long
and steady. Anyone with search training is sifting through rubble and
their families are covered by those of us not trained. Our churches are
open and the pain is shared. We clutch our sons to us and try fervently
to explain to them, lest they misunderstand as the men/boys who created
this tragedy did. We include those sons and their families in our
hearts, their mothers in our prayers. Lest we continue or magnify this
horror. Our nation did not die. Our city did not die. We continue to
live in and with He who sorts the good from the bad in His time, not
ours.
Peace,
Kathyann
| Message 17
Subject: Re: Terrorism
From: Jim Joyner
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 09:44:50 -0500
Bruce,
I hope you will reconsider what you are saying. Sounds a lot like "God is
on our side".
All day yesterday I heard folks asking (and attempting to answer)
questions like "how can we combat or defend against terrorism?, How can we
stop the people who do this sort of thing? How can we find the people did
this?". But, you know, I didn't hear anybody ask "Why would someone want to
do this? Is it there something we've done? Should we reconsider some of
our foreign policy? How can we look carefully at ourselves before we rush
out to do battle?"
There's a interesting lesson in the first fifty years the Quakers lived in
America. During that time there was a blood bath going on with the Indians
all around them; however, not one quaker lost a life to the Indians during
that time. They traded with the Indians, they sold them guns, never locked
their houses. How did they do this? They honored and respected the measure
of God in each person, they treated everyone as a human being.
Retribution will not create healing for them (who ever they are) or us; it
will simply create more anger. Look at the Balkans or the middle east,
it'll never stop there because no one will ever take the responsibility for
stopping with violence.
You can't kill all the terrorists, it would be like trying to kill all the
mosquitos. Terrorism is a function of extreme anger and frustration. So
long as that anger lives there will be terrorism and terrorists. Justice
should be served, but violence just begets violence
I think it might be instructive to consider the focus of that anger too. I
doubt these terrorists are angry at the American people. I am certain,
however, they are angry at the U S Gov't. Has our gov't done anything to
attract such anger? Also, I think we need to keep in mind that the American
people and the U S gov't are not one and the same. One is simply the agent
for the other. That gov't should protect us, not put us in harms way
through its own collective ego.
Cries for war may do something to vent the spleen, but it'll never make
peace. I'll have to admit I don't have the answers to the questions I pose.
But I do know that if we never ask the right questions we can never get the
answers we need. The death of the people who died yesterday does not cry
out for vengeance. If we want peace we have to think in terms of what makes
peace.
Jim
At 10:02 PM 9/11/2001 -0500, you wrote:
>This day gentile lives were snuffed out to strike at America's heart.
>and in answer millions of america's sons are lineing up to enlist to
>kill those that did it.Today the grim reaper called us to arms,Tomorrow
>God will sort out the good from the bad ! I predict we will be killing
>all that today rejoice at this senseless act.
> Citys! and Nations! will soon DIE for this.
> so be it.
> Bruce
| Message 18
Subject: Re: Tree !?!? question
From: Jim Joyner
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 09:52:24 -0500
No, Catalpa is a Chinese import. In my opinion, a mess of a tree, but I've
never seen the wood. I didn't know it had a hollow center.
Jim
At 10:07 AM 9/12/2001 -0400, you wrote:
>Is this what we in Appalachia call catalpa? Nicknames are catabie, cigar
>tree, greenbean tree, etc.? The wood is beautiful, looking much like
>sassafras, light weight, can have a spike driven with 1/4 inch of the end
>and never split, yada yada. It nearly always grows with many suckers and
>hollow centers.
| Message 19
Subject: Paulownia tree
From: Andrei Calciu
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 10:47:06 -0400
I am trying to sum up all the information in one email so those of us who
save emails, will only have to save one message, instead of a handful.
The Paulownia tree, a Japanese import that seems to thrive in USA, comes in
at least two flavors:
Paulownia Tomentosa and Paulownia Imperialis
They grow just about anywhere on the continent, but in cooler climates
(northern and mountain states), they die and regenerate each year, never
reaching their maximum size and girth. Sprouts large flower clusters in
spring and they are edible (great salad).
The tree can reach a diameter of 16" and heights of 80 feet in about 10
years or so. The wood is straight and does not rot, crack, check, or split
easy. The hardness is above average, akin to poplar (a fairly expensive
hardwood at my lumber yard selling for 5 bucks per board-foot), but the
tree grows faster.
Some have had very positive experience selling the lumber, fetching prices
higher than walnut and vastly higher than pine. In Japan they use the wood
for furniture, decorative items, musical instruments, and shoes (I guess
those elevated platform shoes you wear with the white socks, like we see in
the movies), of course, not Nike ;-)
One source for this tree is at http://www.jademountain.com where you can
get the tree for about $7 each in quantities of 100 or more.
Tree thrives if not planted as a monoculture, so mix and match this tree
with others that you may find doing well in your region and that you
consider useful.
-_______________
Andrei D. Calciu (VA-4270)
NEC America, Inc.
14040 Park Center Dr.
Herndon, VA 20171-3227
Voice: 703-834-4273
Fax: 703-787-6613
This message and any attachment are confidential. If you are not the
intended recipient, please telephone or email the sender and delete the
message and any attachment from your system. If you are not the intended
recipient you must not copy this message or attachment or disclose the
contents to any other person.
| Message 20
Subject: Re: Terrorism
From: "KenHale"
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 09:49:53 -0500
Jim - I think you've been wading in the horse s--- too long. It's because
we been too tolerant of this vermon for too long!!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Joyner"
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 9:44 AM
Subject: Re: Terrorism
> Bruce,
>
> I hope you will reconsider what you are saying. Sounds a lot like "God is
> on our side".
>
> All day yesterday I heard folks asking (and attempting to answer)
> questions like "how can we combat or defend against terrorism?, How can we
> stop the people who do this sort of thing? How can we find the people did
> this?". But, you know, I didn't hear anybody ask "Why would someone want
to
> do this? Is it there something we've done? Should we reconsider some of
> our foreign policy? How can we look carefully at ourselves before we rush
> out to do battle?"
>
> There's a interesting lesson in the first fifty years the Quakers lived in
> America. During that time there was a blood bath going on with the Indians
> all around them; however, not one quaker lost a life to the Indians during
> that time. They traded with the Indians, they sold them guns, never locked
> their houses. How did they do this? They honored and respected the
measure
> of God in each person, they treated everyone as a human being.
>
> Retribution will not create healing for them (who ever they are) or us; it
> will simply create more anger. Look at the Balkans or the middle east,
> it'll never stop there because no one will ever take the responsibility
for
> stopping with violence.
>
> You can't kill all the terrorists, it would be like trying to kill all the
> mosquitos. Terrorism is a function of extreme anger and frustration. So
> long as that anger lives there will be terrorism and terrorists. Justice
> should be served, but violence just begets violence
>
> I think it might be instructive to consider the focus of that anger too. I
> doubt these terrorists are angry at the American people. I am certain,
> however, they are angry at the U S Gov't. Has our gov't done anything to
> attract such anger? Also, I think we need to keep in mind that the
American
> people and the U S gov't are not one and the same. One is simply the agent
> for the other. That gov't should protect us, not put us in harms way
> through its own collective ego.
>
> Cries for war may do something to vent the spleen, but it'll never make
> peace. I'll have to admit I don't have the answers to the questions I
pose.
> But I do know that if we never ask the right questions we can never get
the
> answers we need. The death of the people who died yesterday does not cry
> out for vengeance. If we want peace we have to think in terms of what
makes
> peace.
>
> Jim
>
> At 10:02 PM 9/11/2001 -0500, you wrote:
> >This day gentile lives were snuffed out to strike at America's heart.
> >and in answer millions of america's sons are lineing up to enlist to
> >kill those that did it.Today the grim reaper called us to arms,Tomorrow
> >God will sort out the good from the bad ! I predict we will be killing
> >all that today rejoice at this senseless act.
> > Citys! and Nations! will soon DIE for this.
> > so be it.
> > Bruce
>
| Message 21
Subject: Google Search: paulownia tree
From: kris book
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 09:29:02 -0600
Andrei,
This link is to a Google search for paulownia trees. It covers the
subject pretty well.
kris
http://www.google.com/search?q=paulownia+tree&btnG=Google+Search
| Message 22
Subject: Re: Terrorism
From: Jim Joyner
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 10:57:37 -0500
Ken,
Not talking about tolerating anyone, especially, not some one who does
something like we saw yesterday. Talking about looking for the solution in
something besides violence. Talking about taking responsibility for what WE do.
They are not vermon! They are living, breathing, human beings. Until we
consider them that they will continue to haunt us. The only problem with
them is they apparently think very much like you do.
Jim
At 09:49 AM 9/12/2001 -0500, you wrote:
>Jim - I think you've been wading in the horse s--- too long. It's because
>we been too tolerant of this vermon for too long!!
| Message 23
Subject: Condolensenses and Strength From Vancouver Island, Can.
From: "Southin Farms"
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 09:04:53 -0700
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
=_NextPart_000_000F_01C13B69.FCA8A480
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
To our American Friends on the Town Square forum,
Our hearts and prayers are with all of you, during this time of grief =
and horror. We sit glued to the TV, watching the insanity that has =
happened. It helps us feel that we are all "one". I know that our =
viewpoint on the world will has been changed from yesterday forward.
The insightful letter from Gene Batten could not be more timely.
May we remain "united" as fellow North Americans, and as "aquaponic" =
growers to our countries.
God Bless,
Virginia Jacobsen
THE SOUTHIN FARMS LTD.
10605 Southin Road,
Ladysmith, B.C.
V9G 2A8
Canada
Tel: 250-246-1225
Fax: 250-246-1232
E-mail: southin 'at' telus.net
=_NextPart_000_000F_01C13B69.FCA8A480
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
To our American Friends on the Town =
Square=20
forum,
Our hearts and prayers are with all of =
you, during=20
this time of grief and horror. We sit glued to the TV, watching the =
insanity=20
that has happened. It helps us feel that we are all "one". I know that =
our=20
viewpoint on the world will has been changed from yesterday=20
forward.
The insightful letter from Gene Batten =
could not be=20
more timely.
May we remain "united" as fellow North =
Americans,=20
and as "aquaponic" growers to our countries.
God Bless,
Virginia Jacobsen
THE SOUTHIN FARMS LTD.
10605 Southin =
Road,
Ladysmith, B.C.
V9G 2A8
Canada
Tel: =
250-246-1225
Fax:=20
250-246-1232
E-mail: southin 'at' telus.net
<=
/BODY>
=_NextPart_000_000F_01C13B69.FCA8A480--
| Message 24
Subject: Re: Terrorism
From: "Lloyd R. Prentice"
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 12:29:02 -0400
Jim Joyner wrote:
> So
> long as that anger lives there will be terrorism and terrorists. Justice
> should be served, but violence just begets violence
Amen.
I saw our strength yesterday in the swift, selfless and heroic way that New
Yorkers and others in Washington and around the nation responded to this
despicable assault.
I'm reassured of our strength as friends around the world expressed from their
hearts outrage, sympathy and support.
I'm convinced of our strength as we look deeply within to seek out and
understand our own complicity.
Whoever is behind this -- I see their weakness in their blind hatred and their
compulsive need to strike out in this anonymous, cowardly, and infinitely
immoral way.
I'm confident that we'll celebrate our strength as we calmly and deliberately
sift all of the evidence, determine beyond reasonable doubt who is behind this,
and bring them and anyone who aided and abetted to the firm and decisive
justice that they deserve. And may we plant a firm stake in the earth -- Never
Again.
My words fail as I think how to express my respect and sorrow for all those who
suffered and died yesterday and my sympathies for their loved ones, families
and friends.
And I totally agree that growing fish and plants and widely sharing the
knowledge is among the noblist of Jihads in the world.
Lloyd R. Prentice
| Message 25
Subject: Re: our world changed
From: Mick
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 11:53:56 -0500
--DE1E0CDFAE18B11E31952BBA
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Gene Batten wrote:
> Dear Aquaponic Friends, The world changed yesterday in ways
> that we can not yet appreciate.
-----
Gene,
I agree that self reliance is going to be more and more important in the
days/years to come.
I've walked this earth for more years than I'm gonna admit to. Security
and safety are comfort words for people. They are illusionary in
essence, but we humans do enjoy our illusions. In a profound way, my
illusion of safety has been permanently changed to include the caveat
"unless some fanatic decides to do the unthinkable".
Those poor people in the towers were just going to work. The people on
the planes were traveling to see loved ones or vacationing or completing
a work assigment, secure in their illusion of a safe sane world. God
bless them and their families.
One way I can honor those that died is to not succumb to the fear that
terrorists wished to inflict. I'm so proud of the way New Yorkers have
behaved.
Mick
--DE1E0CDFAE18B11E31952BBA
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Gene Batten wrote:
Dear
Aquaponic Friends,
The world changed yesterday in ways that we can not yet appreciate.
-----
Gene,
I agree that self reliance is going to be more and more important in
the days/years to come.
I've walked this earth for more years than I'm gonna admit to.
Security and safety are comfort words for people. They are illusionary
in essence, but we humans do enjoy our illusions. In a profound way,
my illusion of safety has been permanently changed to include the caveat
"unless some fanatic decides to do the unthinkable".
Those poor people in the towers were just going to work. The people
on the planes were traveling to see loved ones or vacationing or completing
a work assigment, secure in their illusion of a safe sane world.
God bless them and their families.
One way I can honor those that died is to not succumb to the fear that
terrorists wished to inflict. I'm so proud of the way New Yorkers
have behaved.
Mick
--DE1E0CDFAE18B11E31952BBA--
| Message 26
Subject: Re: Terrorism a reply to Jim
From: "Brent Bingham"
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 09:54:35 -0700
Jim,
Why should he reconsider? If you do not think God is on our side, whose
side do you think God is on. What humanitarian efforts are " they " making
around the world with there money? How would you change foreign policy. All
do respect to the Quakers, if it had been left up to them we would all be
speaking German and saying hiel Hitler. If they wanted to get at the us
government then that would have been there first target. Actually "they"
tried to get this target before. THEY chose to hit when "they" could kill
the most Americans. THEY did not choose a US Government target or say a US
historical site like the statue of liberty. THEY went for human life. THEY
have been identified and no "they" are not Americans. THEY do not believe in
my GOD. My GOD says I will not go to heaven if I take there life in cold
blood BUT there GOD says they can if "they" take our lives in cold blood.
Healing? Heal who? Cold blooded murders? This will not go away if we take a
lesson from the Quakers. If you "trade guns" with them "they" use them on
you.Look at the history of the area and read the Bible. This is predicted
and will get worse ! I brought this up a few weeks ago. There are only TWO
sides ! We now more than ever can see the future for what we on the list are
doing. We can find a better way to feed the hungry and the hungry could be
you or me next ! What would happen to your town if every road and bridge
were shut down a few days? How many hours would the food on the store
shelves last? Stock up on toilet paper leaves chafe.
Brent
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Joyner"
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 7:44 AM
Subject: Re: Terrorism
> Bruce,
>
> I hope you will reconsider what you are saying. Sounds a lot like "God is
> on our side".
>
> All day yesterday I heard folks asking (and attempting to answer)
> questions like "how can we combat or defend against terrorism?, How can we
> stop the people who do this sort of thing? How can we find the people did
> this?". But, you know, I didn't hear anybody ask "Why would someone want
to
> do this? Is it there something we've done? Should we reconsider some of
> our foreign policy? How can we look carefully at ourselves before we rush
> out to do battle?"
>
> There's a interesting lesson in the first fifty years the Quakers lived in
> America. During that time there was a blood bath going on with the Indians
> all around them; however, not one quaker lost a life to the Indians during
> that time. They traded with the Indians, they sold them guns, never locked
> their houses. How did they do this? They honored and respected the
measure
> of God in each person, they treated everyone as a human being.
>
> Retribution will not create healing for them (who ever they are) or us; it
> will simply create more anger. Look at the Balkans or the middle east,
> it'll never stop there because no one will ever take the responsibility
for
> stopping with violence.
>
> You can't kill all the terrorists, it would be like trying to kill all the
> mosquitos. Terrorism is a function of extreme anger and frustration. So
> long as that anger lives there will be terrorism and terrorists. Justice
> should be served, but violence just begets violence
>
> I think it might be instructive to consider the focus of that anger too. I
> doubt these terrorists are angry at the American people. I am certain,
> however, they are angry at the U S Gov't. Has our gov't done anything to
> attract such anger? Also, I think we need to keep in mind that the
American
> people and the U S gov't are not one and the same. One is simply the agent
> for the other. That gov't should protect us, not put us in harms way
> through its own collective ego.
>
> Cries for war may do something to vent the spleen, but it'll never make
> peace. I'll have to admit I don't have the answers to the questions I
pose.
> But I do know that if we never ask the right questions we can never get th
e
> answers we need. The death of the people who died yesterday does not cry
> out for vengeance. If we want peace we have to think in terms of what
makes
> peace.
>
> Jim
>
> At 10:02 PM 9/11/2001 -0500, you wrote:
> >This day gentile lives were snuffed out to strike at America's heart.
> >and in answer millions of america's sons are lineing up to enlist to
> >kill those that did it.Today the grim reaper called us to arms,Tomorrow
> >God will sort out the good from the bad ! I predict we will be killing
> >all that today rejoice at this senseless act.
> > Citys! and Nations! will soon DIE for this.
> > so be it.
> > Bruce
>
>
| Message 27
Subject: Re: Terrorism
From: Elisheva Ruth
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 12:51:32 +0000
What happened in the 51st year?
> From: Jim Joyner
> Reply-To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
> Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 09:44:50 -0500
> To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
> Subject: Re: Terrorism
>
> Bruce,
>
> I hope you will reconsider what you are saying. Sounds a lot like "God is
> on our side".
>
> All day yesterday I heard folks asking (and attempting to answer)
> questions like "how can we combat or defend against terrorism?, How can we
> stop the people who do this sort of thing? How can we find the people did
> this?". But, you know, I didn't hear anybody ask "Why would someone want to
> do this? Is it there something we've done? Should we reconsider some of
> our foreign policy? How can we look carefully at ourselves before we rush
> out to do battle?"
>
> There's a interesting lesson in the first fifty years the Quakers lived in
> America. During that time there was a blood bath going on with the Indians
> all around them; however, not one quaker lost a life to the Indians during
> that time. They traded with the Indians, they sold them guns, never locked
> their houses. How did they do this? They honored and respected the measure
> of God in each person, they treated everyone as a human being.
>
> Retribution will not create healing for them (who ever they are) or us; it
> will simply create more anger. Look at the Balkans or the middle east,
> it'll never stop there because no one will ever take the responsibility for
> stopping with violence.
>
> You can't kill all the terrorists, it would be like trying to kill all the
> mosquitos. Terrorism is a function of extreme anger and frustration. So
> long as that anger lives there will be terrorism and terrorists. Justice
> should be served, but violence just begets violence
>
> I think it might be instructive to consider the focus of that anger too. I
> doubt these terrorists are angry at the American people. I am certain,
> however, they are angry at the U S Gov't. Has our gov't done anything to
> attract such anger? Also, I think we need to keep in mind that the American
> people and the U S gov't are not one and the same. One is simply the agent
> for the other. That gov't should protect us, not put us in harms way
> through its own collective ego.
>
> Cries for war may do something to vent the spleen, but it'll never make
> peace. I'll have to admit I don't have the answers to the questions I pose.
> But I do know that if we never ask the right questions we can never get the
> answers we need. The death of the people who died yesterday does not cry
> out for vengeance. If we want peace we have to think in terms of what makes
> peace.
>
> Jim
>
> At 10:02 PM 9/11/2001 -0500, you wrote:
>> This day gentile lives were snuffed out to strike at America's heart.
>> and in answer millions of america's sons are lineing up to enlist to
>> kill those that did it.Today the grim reaper called us to arms,Tomorrow
>> God will sort out the good from the bad ! I predict we will be killing
>> all that today rejoice at this senseless act.
>> Citys! and Nations! will soon DIE for this.
>> so be it.
>> Bruce
>
>
| Message 28
Subject: Re: Terrorism
From: James Robert Igou
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 13:00:50 -0400 (EDT)
I believe that is spelled v-e-r-m-i-n, Ken. Beyond that point, I
too question the logic that revenge is the best course of action. Obviously,
we need to do something about this attack. But, we don't need to create a
cycle where retribution leads to further attacks promoting a vicious cycle of
violence. If indeed these attacks were fostered by Islamic fundamentalists,
has any of you considered where that religion has its origin? As a
decendant of European ancestors with several Palestinian friends, I am
well aware of why many in the Middle East regard the US with contempt.
Historically, the people of this region have been on the receiving
end of a great deal of abuse. While this hardly justifies what happened
yesterday, have any of you actually studied what our ancestors did to
these people? The Crusades were hardly an honorable endeavor. In fact,
if you can point to a single point in history that led to the development
of current Moslem religion and philosophy this period would have to be it.
Why can't we learn by reflecting on our past history rather than doom
ourselves to short-sighted courses of actions that are driven by our
passions rather than by reason?
BTW - What you said, Jim, took courage. How you responded, Ken,
was simply childish (and bit vulgar). I thought we had all agreed to be a
little more civil in our discussions. Hopefully, we can all continue to be
reasonably considerate. Take care one and all.
Peace be with you all,
JI
On Wed, 12 Sep 2001, KenHale wrote:
> Jim - I think you've been wading in the horse s--- too long. It's because
> we been too tolerant of this vermon for too long!!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Joyner"
>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 9:44 AM
> Subject: Re: Terrorism
>
>
> > Bruce,
> >
> > I hope you will reconsider what you are saying. Sounds a lot like "God is
> > on our side".
> >
> > All day yesterday I heard folks asking (and attempting to answer)
> > questions like "how can we combat or defend against terrorism?, How can we
> > stop the people who do this sort of thing? How can we find the people did
> > this?". But, you know, I didn't hear anybody ask "Why would someone want
> to
> > do this? Is it there something we've done? Should we reconsider some of
> > our foreign policy? How can we look carefully at ourselves before we rush
> > out to do battle?"
> >
> > There's a interesting lesson in the first fifty years the Quakers lived in
> > America. During that time there was a blood bath going on with the Indians
> > all around them; however, not one quaker lost a life to the Indians during
> > that time. They traded with the Indians, they sold them guns, never locked
> > their houses. How did they do this? They honored and respected the
> measure
> > of God in each person, they treated everyone as a human being.
> >
> > Retribution will not create healing for them (who ever they are) or us; it
> > will simply create more anger. Look at the Balkans or the middle east,
> > it'll never stop there because no one will ever take the responsibility
> for
> > stopping with violence.
> >
> > You can't kill all the terrorists, it would be like trying to kill all the
> > mosquitos. Terrorism is a function of extreme anger and frustration. So
> > long as that anger lives there will be terrorism and terrorists. Justice
> > should be served, but violence just begets violence
> >
> > I think it might be instructive to consider the focus of that anger too. I
> > doubt these terrorists are angry at the American people. I am certain,
> > however, they are angry at the U S Gov't. Has our gov't done anything to
> > attract such anger? Also, I think we need to keep in mind that the
> American
> > people and the U S gov't are not one and the same. One is simply the agent
> > for the other. That gov't should protect us, not put us in harms way
> > through its own collective ego.
> >
> > Cries for war may do something to vent the spleen, but it'll never make
> > peace. I'll have to admit I don't have the answers to the questions I
> pose.
> > But I do know that if we never ask the right questions we can never get
> the
> > answers we need. The death of the people who died yesterday does not cry
> > out for vengeance. If we want peace we have to think in terms of what
> makes
> > peace.
> >
> > Jim
> >
> > At 10:02 PM 9/11/2001 -0500, you wrote:
> > >This day gentile lives were snuffed out to strike at America's heart.
> > >and in answer millions of america's sons are lineing up to enlist to
> > >kill those that did it.Today the grim reaper called us to arms,Tomorrow
> > >God will sort out the good from the bad ! I predict we will be killing
> > >all that today rejoice at this senseless act.
> > > Citys! and Nations! will soon DIE for this.
> > > so be it.
> > > Bruce
> >
>
| Message 29
Subject: RE: Terrorism
From: "Jorge Revenga"
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 14:32:40 -0300
I MAKE THEM MY OWN WORDS.
THERE ARE EVEN PEOPLE FROM MY COUNTRY KILLED OR INJURED
OVER THERE. What happens with this world my god!!
JORGE
ARGENTINA
>To all USA citizens on the list, may I offer my sincerest condolences at
>this time, especially to those of you who have loved ones who have either
>been killed or injured in today's attacks. May God comfort you at this
>time.
>
>Leslie
>
>
>
>
| Message 30
Subject: Re: Terrorism
From: Jim Joyner
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 12:37:31 -0500
Unfortunately, they compromised their own principles with the help of Ben
Franklin, got split down the middle on fighting French and Indian War. They
were never much of a force after that.
Jim
At 12:51 PM 9/12/2001 +0000, you wrote:
>What happened in the 51st year?
| Message 31
Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Tue 09/11/01
From: "Lloyd R. Prentice"
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 13:39:56 -0400
marc wrote:
> I have received significant support off list but why off
> list??
Why do you need support, Marc?
I merely asked you to explain why you are so angry.
Best wishes,
Lloyd
| Message 32
Subject: Re: Terrorism
From: "KenHale"
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 13:41:41 -0500
James & Jim - I stand corrected on the spelling of a "rat" but I have a
problem with folks whose politics include the killing of innocent people. I
realize that we Americans are far from perfect or innocent, but for the most
part about all we have done is recent past is to help these people with our
time/money and to try to keep there bullies from running over the weak in
their own land. I do believe in the death penalty as most Texans do. I
believe we need to have our facts right and then proceed . There will
always be bullies and cowards such as these and for the U.S. to lie down
will invite them back again. Speak softly but have that big stick ready for
the v-e-r-m-i-n. Ken
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Robert Igou"
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 12:00 PM
Subject: Re: Terrorism
> I believe that is spelled v-e-r-m-i-n, Ken. Beyond that point, I
> too question the logic that revenge is the best course of action.
Obviously,
> we need to do something about this attack. But, we don't need to create a
> cycle where retribution leads to further attacks promoting a vicious cycle
of
> violence. If indeed these attacks were fostered by Islamic
fundamentalists,
> has any of you considered where that religion has its origin? As a
> decendant of European ancestors with several Palestinian friends, I am
> well aware of why many in the Middle East regard the US with contempt.
> Historically, the people of this region have been on the receiving
> end of a great deal of abuse. While this hardly justifies what happened
> yesterday, have any of you actually studied what our ancestors did to
> these people? The Crusades were hardly an honorable endeavor. In fact,
> if you can point to a single point in history that led to the development
> of current Moslem religion and philosophy this period would have to be it.
> Why can't we learn by reflecting on our past history rather than doom
> ourselves to short-sighted courses of actions that are driven by our
> passions rather than by reason?
> BTW - What you said, Jim, took courage. How you responded, Ken,
> was simply childish (and bit vulgar). I thought we had all agreed to be a
> little more civil in our discussions. Hopefully, we can all continue to be
> reasonably considerate. Take care one and all.
>
> Peace be with you all,
> JI
>
> On Wed, 12 Sep 2001, KenHale wrote:
>
> > Jim - I think you've been wading in the horse s--- too long. It's
because
> > we been too tolerant of this vermon for too long!!
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jim Joyner"
> >
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 9:44 AM
> > Subject: Re: Terrorism
> >
> >
> > > Bruce,
> > >
> > > I hope you will reconsider what you are saying. Sounds a lot like "God
is
> > > on our side".
> > >
> > > All day yesterday I heard folks asking (and attempting to answer)
> > > questions like "how can we combat or defend against terrorism?, How
can we
> > > stop the people who do this sort of thing? How can we find the people
did
> > > this?". But, you know, I didn't hear anybody ask "Why would someone
want
> > to
> > > do this? Is it there something we've done? Should we reconsider some
of
> > > our foreign policy? How can we look carefully at ourselves before we
rush
> > > out to do battle?"
> > >
> > > There's a interesting lesson in the first fifty years the Quakers
lived in
> > > America. During that time there was a blood bath going on with the
Indians
> > > all around them; however, not one quaker lost a life to the Indians
during
> > > that time. They traded with the Indians, they sold them guns, never
locked
> > > their houses. How did they do this? They honored and respected the
> > measure
> > > of God in each person, they treated everyone as a human being.
> > >
> > > Retribution will not create healing for them (who ever they are) or
us; it
> > > will simply create more anger. Look at the Balkans or the middle east,
> > > it'll never stop there because no one will ever take the
responsibility
> > for
> > > stopping with violence.
> > >
> > > You can't kill all the terrorists, it would be like trying to kill all
the
> > > mosquitos. Terrorism is a function of extreme anger and frustration.
So
> > > long as that anger lives there will be terrorism and terrorists.
Justice
> > > should be served, but violence just begets violence
> > >
> > > I think it might be instructive to consider the focus of that anger
too. I
> > > doubt these terrorists are angry at the American people. I am certain,
> > > however, they are angry at the U S Gov't. Has our gov't done anything
to
> > > attract such anger? Also, I think we need to keep in mind that the
> > American
> > > people and the U S gov't are not one and the same. One is simply the
agent
> > > for the other. That gov't should protect us, not put us in harms way
> > > through its own collective ego.
> > >
> > > Cries for war may do something to vent the spleen, but it'll never
make
> > > peace. I'll have to admit I don't have the answers to the questions I
> > pose.
> > > But I do know that if we never ask the right questions we can never
get
> > the
> > > answers we need. The death of the people who died yesterday does not
cry
> > > out for vengeance. If we want peace we have to think in terms of what
> > makes
> > > peace.
> > >
> > > Jim
> > >
> > > At 10:02 PM 9/11/2001 -0500, you wrote:
> > > >This day gentile lives were snuffed out to strike at America's
heart.
> > > >and in answer millions of america's sons are lineing up to enlist to
> > > >kill those that did it.Today the grim reaper called us to
arms,Tomorrow
> > > >God will sort out the good from the bad ! I predict we will be
killing
> > > >all that today rejoice at this senseless act.
> > > > Citys! and Nations! will soon DIE for this.
> > > > so be it.
> > > > Bruce
> > >
> >
>
| Message 33
Subject: RE: Terrorism
From: "Richard & Faye"
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 14:32:08 -0500
I have started to respond to this line several times and stopped myself
because I realize that it has hit very close to home for my family and
myself. My wife is a First Officer for a major US airline, and I thank God
that she was on the ground in North Carolina yesterday when all this
happen, but she lost friends on those 4 airliners!
A couple of points that I would like to make and I understand that everyone
on this list will not agree with me, but so be it. I travel several
thousand miles each year and I get so tired of hearing people complain
because they have to go though security and become offended if they are
asked to open there suitcases. Please understand that these people are
trying to protect you! Yes they failed yesterday and believe me they will
live with that the rest of their lives.
Second, Some people will only respond to force. Remember are friend from
Libya (sp). His Terrorism efforts dropped off the map after the U.S. bomb
his headquarters in the 80's. Is the U.S. innocent, of course not, we have
made mistakes and will in the future. But can we let this go unanswered?
Of course not? Unless a bully is stopped he(she) will continue to be a
bully. I have yet to meet one who could be reasoned with or sweet talked.
As I former minister I do not condone violence and yes before someone
reminds me I know that the Bible says "vengeance is Mine sayeth the Lord"
but it also says "an eye for an eye". This is a holy war for the
individuals involved, if it is indeed the Jihad and for them to die in
battle is a promise of heaven, how do you reason with people like that?
sorry just had to vent.
Richard
| Message 34
Subject: Re: Terrorism
From: kris book
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 15:44:36 -0600
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
----__JNP_000_324b.7c98.11ce
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
This should be a time for serious thought. I ask that all of you with
vengeance in your hearts to take a moment to search for the real cause
and a just solution to these horrible experiences. While watching the
real joy written on the faces of the people who live in the Middle
East,it became evident to me that these people really do feel justified
in celebrating our anguish. These folks lose more children to poverty
every day than we had killed in New York and Washington D.C
While their vengeance on our innocent citizens is unfounded, if we
retaliate, won't we be just as guilty in harming innocent bystanders. I
am no proponent of the New World Order but, I do believe that it is time
for every citizen of the world to be concerned with the freedom and care
of every other citizen. Unless each and every one of us has the
opportunity to raise our families in a safe and loving environment, we
are all within a step or two of disaster.
I am not sure if most of you are aware that there are always
approximately 40 wars going on in this world. It's been that way for
hundreds of years. Do any of you really think that land or God or oil is
a good reason to kill someone else. If you never have killed someone, I
want to assure you that there is no good feeling, no matter how justified
you may be. I was a machine gunner in Viet Nam and I will never forget
how I felt after doing my duty for God and country. Protecting yourself
or a person who can't protect them self is the only reason I know of to
take another's life.
Even these terrorists could better pay their debts with good work for the
people they've harmed than by paying with their lives. To me, an eye for
an eye means, if you take my eyes then you become my eyes. Please take a
look around, who benefits from us hating each other. That's right, the
people with almost all the money want things to stay just the way they
are. They are happy to see men hating women, women hating kids, blacks
hating whites, etc
Unless the people begin to understand that we are
all the same, the people in power will keep this world in turmoil.
And now for my solution; if each family will put aside a couple of hours
on a weekend each month to go to their local park and just sit down and
eat lunch and talk with someone else that doesn't look like you do. If we
can just learn to appreciate the different qualities that each of us has,
peace will follow. The only war that will benefit the majority of the
world's population, is a war against GREED!!!!!
Cultivate the courage to change,
kris book
----__JNP_000_324b.7c98.11ce
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This should be a time for serious thought. I ask that all of you with=
=20
vengeance in your hearts to take a moment to search for the real cause and =
a=20
just solution to these horrible experiences. While watching the real joy =
written=20
on the faces of the people who live in the Middle East,it became evident to=
me=20
that these people really do feel justified in celebrating our anguish. =
These=20
folks lose more children to poverty every day than we had killed in New =
York and=20
Washington D.C
While their vengeance on our innocent citizens is unfounded, if we=20
retaliate, won't we be just as guilty in harming innocent bystanders. I am =
no=20
proponent of the New World Order but, I do believe that it is time for =
every=20
citizen of the world to be concerned with the freedom and care of every =
other=20
citizen. Unless each and every one of us has the opportunity to raise our=20
families in a safe and loving environment, we are all within a step or two =
of=20
disaster.
I am not sure if most of you are aware that there are always=20
approximately 40 wars going on in this world. It's been that way for =
hundreds of=20
years. Do any of you really think that land or God or oil is a good reason =
to=20
kill someone else. If you never have killed someone, I want to assure you =
that=20
there is no good feeling, no matter how justified you may be. I was a =
machine=20
gunner in Viet Nam and I will never forget how I felt after doing my duty =
for=20
God and country. Protecting yourself or a person who can't protect them =
self is=20
the only reason I know of to take another's life.
Even these terrorists could better pay their debts with good work for =
the=20
people they've harmed than by paying with their lives. To me, an eye for an=
eye=20
means, if you take my eyes then you become my eyes. Please take a look =
around,=20
who benefits from us hating each other. That's right, the people with =
almost all=20
the money want things to stay just the way they are. They are happy to see =
men=20
hating women, women hating kids, blacks hating whites, etc
Unless the =
people=20
begin to understand that we are all the same, the people in power will keep=
this=20
world in turmoil.
And now for my solution; if each family will put aside a couple of =
hours on=20
a weekend each month to go to their local park and just sit down and eat =
lunch=20
and talk with someone else that doesn't look like you do. If we can just =
learn=20
to appreciate the different qualities that each of us has, peace will =
follow.=20
The only war that will benefit the majority of the world's population, is a=
war=20
against GREED!!!!!
Cultivate the courage to change,
kris book
----__JNP_000_324b.7c98.11ce--
| Message 35
Subject: Terrior
From: "Steven Medlock"
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 17:47:43 -0500
To all of you who think that doing nothing will stop the violence, you are
wrong! This is a holy war and we as a nation are the enemy to them. The
Moslem faith does not condone violence, but the radical side believes it is
all for Alla. I fought in the middle east, and just like the Japanese were
they are fanatics. They will not stop unless forced. It is sad to think
that it will have to come to that, but I will not stand by and say It will
just cause more violence so lets not provoke them. If the job was done in
1990 We would not have people celebrating in the streets.
Red
| Message 36
Subject: Re: Terrorism
From: "Frank Stancato"
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 19:08:02 -0400
James, unfortunately history needs to be looked at as a whole and you should
read the story of Islamic expansion.
Just like the Sicilians no one knows who stole the chicken first. And before
anyone jumps on me, it is a common story around may Sicilian aunt's table at
Christmas.
Frank
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Robert Igou"
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 1:00 PM
Subject: Re: Terrorism
> The Crusades were hardly an honorable endeavor. In fact,
> if you can point to a single point in history that led to the development
> of current Moslem religion and philosophy this period would have to be it.
> Why can't we learn by reflecting on our past history rather than doom
> ourselves to short-sighted courses of actions that are driven by our
> passions rather than by reason?
> BTW - What you said, Jim, took courage. How you responded, Ken,
> was simply childish (and bit vulgar). I thought we had all agreed to be a
> little more civil in our discussions. Hopefully, we can all continue to be
> reasonably considerate. Take care one and all.
>
> Peace be with you all,
> JI
| Message 37
Subject: Re: Evironmentally & economically sound heating & light .From: "TheStraits"
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 18:10:12 -0500
I spoke with the local rep for the clean burn
waste oil boilers and was quoted over $9,000
for a 350k btu boiler.
I've got sticker shock .
I'd like to use waste veggie oil from the local
fast foodies but for $9k I'm wondering if
I should just set up a water cooled diesel
generator & go for power & heat in one
package.
I recently bought an old Benz diesel for
$2k. I think it would use about 2 gallons
per hour at the equivelant of 60 mph. And
one gallon has about 140k btu's. Granted,
this is probably headed directly for a Rube G.
award and will catch fire & burn down both
my house and barn, my wife will leave
and my children might change their names but
Anyone else tried something like this?
Dave
Buffalo Minnesota
A sad day yesterday
.
| Message 38
Subject: Re: Terrorism
From: "Brent Bingham"
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 16:21:20 -0700
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
=_NextPart_000_003C_01C13BA6.F5462770
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Kris,
Are you justifying there terrorism on the basis of infant mortality you =
assume is taking place and in which we cannot prevent? On what do you =
base your premise? Land, God and oil are their reasons not infant =
mortality. Would you rather defend yourself in your home or at your work =
or theirs. Who is the aggressor here? The Old Testament, eye for an eye =
was a law that Christ said he came to fulfill and replace with the New =
Testament Law. Hate is not the motivation for the wars the US fights. =
Prevention and preservation
are our motivations! We do not commit terrorism "they" do! A lot of us =
served in Nam.
We all had choices to make and some did do things that were not =
honorable. That does not change why democracies fight back. Freedom is =
worth defending at a cost, almost any cost! If you have some guilt to =
deal with, deal with it. No greater love hath no man than he lay down =
his life for a friend. We defend our friends over there so we are not =
required to do it hear. What price are we willing to pay for freedom? =
Some would through it away for free out of misguided guilt. Who are the =
"innocent bystanders"
and why are they standing so close to terrorists?
As bad as you suppose we are as a nation our system beats second place =
by a long ways. If as you propose we are so evil why do millions each =
year risk there lives to get here illegally ? =20
I think we need to do a little more flag waving and less fault finding. =
I think the US has at one time or another defended every place on earth =
except for the times it was defending itself or a friend. I fill no =
guilt, no shame, no remorse for being an American. To do so diminishes =
the lives lost hear at home and in almost every country in the world.
In the last days there will be more wars and rumors of wars, as the good =
book predicts. We have been warned from the time the US was formed as a =
Christian nation.
This will get worse in the long run, it must if you believe in the BOOK. =
We can get ready and we can help our friends get ready. It will be hard =
to tell who are friends really are in the years to come.
Brent
----- Original Message -----=20
From: kris book=20
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com ; ; sspence 'at' webconx.com =
; AbHealthy 'at' aol.com ; organicminds 'at' aol.com ; bookkelly ; =
bgraves 'at' nkn.net ; BH 'at' Theotex.com ; Bobandjt 'at' aol.com=20
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 2:44 PM
Subject: Re: Terrorism
This should be a time for serious thought. I ask that all of you with =
vengeance in your hearts to take a moment to search for the real cause =
and a just solution to these horrible experiences. While watching the =
real joy written on the faces of the people who live in the Middle =
East,it became evident to me that these people really do feel justified =
in celebrating our anguish. These folks lose more children to poverty =
every day than we had killed in New York and Washington D.C
While their vengeance on our innocent citizens is unfounded, if we =
retaliate, won't we be just as guilty in harming innocent bystanders. I =
am no proponent of the New World Order but, I do believe that it is time =
for every citizen of the world to be concerned with the freedom and care =
of every other citizen. Unless each and every one of us has the =
opportunity to raise our families in a safe and loving environment, we =
are all within a step or two of disaster.
I am not sure if most of you are aware that there are always =
approximately 40 wars going on in this world. It's been that way for =
hundreds of years. Do any of you really think that land or God or oil is =
a good reason to kill someone else. If you never have killed someone, I =
want to assure you that there is no good feeling, no matter how =
justified you may be. I was a machine gunner in Viet Nam and I will =
never forget how I felt after doing my duty for God and country. =
Protecting yourself or a person who can't protect them self is the only =
reason I know of to take another's life.
Even these terrorists could better pay their debts with good work for =
the people they've harmed than by paying with their lives. To me, an eye =
for an eye means, if you take my eyes then you become my eyes. Please =
take a look around, who benefits from us hating each other. That's =
right, the people with almost all the money want things to stay just the =
way they are. They are happy to see men hating women, women hating kids, =
blacks hating whites, etc
Unless the people begin to understand that =
we are all the same, the people in power will keep this world in =
turmoil.
And now for my solution; if each family will put aside a couple of =
hours on a weekend each month to go to their local park and just sit =
down and eat lunch and talk with someone else that doesn't look like you =
do. If we can just learn to appreciate the different qualities that each =
of us has, peace will follow. The only war that will benefit the =
majority of the world's population, is a war against GREED!!!!!
Cultivate the courage to change,
kris book
=_NextPart_000_003C_01C13BA6.F5462770
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Kris,
Are you justifying there terrorism =
on the=20
basis of infant mortality you assume is taking place and in which =
we cannot=20
prevent? On what do you base your premise? Land, God and oil are their =
reasons=20
not infant mortality. Would you rather defend yourself in your home or =
at your=20
work or theirs. Who is the aggressor here? The Old Testament, eye for an =
eye was=20
a law that Christ said he came to fulfill and replace with the New =
Testament Law. Hate is not the motivation for the wars =
the US=20
fights. Prevention and preservation
are our motivations! We do not commit =
terrorism=20
"they" do! A lot of us served in Nam.
We all had choices to make and some did =
do things=20
that were not honorable. That does not change why democracies fight =
back.=20
Freedom is worth defending at a cost, almost any cost! If you have =
some=20
guilt to deal with, deal with it. No greater love hath no man than he =
lay down=20
his life for a friend. We defend our friends over there so we are =
not=20
required to do it hear. What price are we willing to pay for =
freedom? Some=20
would through it away for free out of misguided guilt. Who are the =
"innocent=20
bystanders"
and why are they standing so close to=20
terrorists?
As bad as you suppose we are as a =
nation our=20
system beats second place by a long ways. If as you propose we are so =
evil why=20
do millions each year risk there lives to get here illegally ?=20
I think we need to do a little more =
flag waving and=20
less fault finding. I think the US has at one time or another =
defended =20
every place on earth except for the times it was defending =
itself or a=20
friend. I fill no guilt, no shame, no remorse for being an =
American. To do=20
so diminishes the lives lost hear at home and in almost =
every country in=20
the world.
In the last days there will be =
more wars and=20
rumors of wars, as the good book predicts. We have been warned from the =
time the=20
US was formed as a Christian nation.
This will get worse in the long run, it =
must if you=20
believe in the BOOK. We can get ready and we can help our friends get =
ready. It=20
will be hard to tell who are friends really are in the years to=20
come.
Brent
----- Original Message -----
From:=20
kris =
book=20
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, =
2001 2:44=20
PM
Subject: Re: Terrorism
This should be a time for serious thought. I ask that all of you =
with=20
vengeance in your hearts to take a moment to search for the real cause =
and a=20
just solution to these horrible experiences. While watching the real =
joy=20
written on the faces of the people who live in the Middle East,it =
became=20
evident to me that these people really do feel justified in =
celebrating our=20
anguish. These folks lose more children to poverty every day than we =
had=20
killed in New York and Washington D.C
While their vengeance on our innocent citizens is unfounded, if =
we=20
retaliate, won't we be just as guilty in harming innocent bystanders. =
I am no=20
proponent of the New World Order but, I do believe that it is time for =
every=20
citizen of the world to be concerned with the freedom and care of =
every other=20
citizen. Unless each and every one of us has the opportunity to raise =
our=20
families in a safe and loving environment, we are all within a step or =
two of=20
disaster.
I am not sure if most of you are aware that there are always =
approximately 40 wars going on in this world. It's been that way for =
hundreds=20
of years. Do any of you really think that land or God or oil is a good =
reason=20
to kill someone else. If you never have killed someone, I want to =
assure you=20
that there is no good feeling, no matter how justified you may be. I =
was a=20
machine gunner in Viet Nam and I will never forget how I felt after =
doing my=20
duty for God and country. Protecting yourself or a person who can't =
protect=20
them self is the only reason I know of to take another's =
life.
Even these terrorists could better pay their debts with good work =
for the=20
people they've harmed than by paying with their lives. To me, an eye =
for an=20
eye means, if you take my eyes then you become my eyes. Please take a =
look=20
around, who benefits from us hating each other. That's right, the =
people with=20
almost all the money want things to stay just the way they are. They =
are happy=20
to see men hating women, women hating kids, blacks hating whites, =
etc
Unless=20
the people begin to understand that we are all the same, the people in =
power=20
will keep this world in turmoil.
And now for my solution; if each family will put aside a couple =
of hours=20
on a weekend each month to go to their local park and just sit down =
and eat=20
lunch and talk with someone else that doesn't look like you do. If we =
can just=20
learn to appreciate the different qualities that each of us has, peace =
will=20
follow. The only war that will benefit the majority of the world's =
population,=20
is a war against GREED!!!!!
Cultivate the courage to change,
kris book
=_NextPart_000_003C_01C13BA6.F5462770--
| Message 39
Subject: Re: Evironmentally & economically sound heating & light .From: "Brent Bingham"
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 16:32:42 -0700
It is called co-generation and you can cool about 10,000 sq ft as well.
If you make a little biogas you can cut down your diesel use by 65 % ++.
If you do not say where it came from you can get the $9,000.00 cut by Fred.
Brent
----- Original Message -----
From: "TheStraits"
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 4:10 PM
Subject: Re: Evironmentally & economically sound heating & light .
> I spoke with the local rep for the clean burn
> waste oil boilers and was quoted over $9,000
> for a 350k btu boiler.
>
> I've got sticker shock .>
> I'd like to use waste veggie oil from the local
> fast foodies but for $9k I'm wondering if
> I should just set up a water cooled diesel
> generator & go for power & heat in one
> package.
>
> I recently bought an old Benz diesel for
> $2k. I think it would use about 2 gallons
> per hour at the equivelant of 60 mph. And
> one gallon has about 140k btu's. Granted,
> this is probably headed directly for a Rube G.
> award and will catch fire & burn down both
> my house and barn, my wife will leave
> and my children might change their names but
>
> Anyone else tried something like this?
>
> Dave
> Buffalo Minnesota
>
> A sad day yesterday
.
>
>
>
| Message 40
Subject: Re: Terrorism
From: Peggy & Emmett
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 20:21:26 -0400
At 09:44 AM 9/12/2001 -0500, you wrote:
>Bruce,
>
>You can't kill all the terrorists, it would be like trying to kill all the
>mosquitos.
The mosquitos will be killed.
.Emmett
| Message 41
Subject: Re: Evironmentally & economically sound heating & light .From: "TheStraits"
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 19:41:43 -0500
> If you make a little biogas you can cut down your diesel use by 65 % ++.
> If you do not say where it came from you can get the $9,000.00 cut by
Fred.
> Brent
I've followed some of the threads on biogas, so I'm sure we
can build a unit. We're on 12 acres so a central power plant
makes a lot of sense
. And there is a waste stream .
> If you do not say where it came from you can get the $9,000.00 cut by
Fred.
Okay, Brent, you got me. Who is Fred and why would he care
where 'it' came from ??? Is Ted at your place ? Did he put you
up to this ? Which 'it' are we talking about ???
;-o)
Dave
Buffalo Minnesota
| Message 42
Subject: Skolnick - US Government Had Prior Knowledge Of Emergency
From: kris book
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 19:12:14 -0600
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
----__JNP_000_5b4a.7f50.5525
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Brent,
Democracies don't fight wars, young men with nothing to gain fight wars
and die. It's time for people to understand that there is no good reason
to take a life. Not the terrorists and not the U.S. Government either. If
you think this opening volley is all that we have to worry about, I'm
afraid you will be sorely disappointed. Unless cooler heads prevail, we
are on the verge of World War III.
What I was trying to say about the people celebrating was that they
seemed genuinely happy to hear that a blow had been struck against the
U.S.A
Those people believe that we are evil and the majority of this
country believes that they are evil. What is really going on here is
propaganda spread by both sides but, in reality people are people and we
are all being fooled on the real truth.
I agree that this is the best place to live on earth but, that is because
of the people that built this country, not the government we have today.
When the history books are written about this period, it will be known as
the most corrupt period in the history of mankind. Do any of us have any
real evidence on who committed these atrocities in N.Y. and Washington
D.C.,or do we have to take the word of a corrupt media and law
enforcement.
Do you think Lee Harvey Oswald, Sirhan Sirhan, James Earl Ray, or Timothy
McVey had the brains necessary to pull off their atrocities. I am just as
much a flag waver as anyone but, when I wave the flag, in my mind it has
13 stars. I ask myself, who benefited from this terrible thing and right
now I don't have an answer but, I will continue to investigate. If you
would like to weigh some evidence, check this link out. I don't know for
sure what's really going on but, I do know that I fought in an illegal
and unjust war and I'm not taking anybody's word for what is happening
now.
kris
http://www.rense.com/general13/skolknow.htm
----__JNP_000_5b4a.7f50.5525
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Brent,
Democracies don't fight wars, young men with nothing to gain fight =
wars and=20
die. It's time for people to understand that there is no good reason to =
take a=20
life. Not the terrorists and not the U.S. Government either. If you think =
this=20
opening volley is all that we have to worry about, I'm afraid you will be =
sorely=20
disappointed. Unless cooler heads prevail, we are on the verge of World War=
=20
III.
What I was trying to say about the people celebrating was that they =
seemed=20
genuinely happy to hear that a blow had been struck against the U.S.A
=
Those=20
people believe that we are evil and the majority of this country believes =
that=20
they are evil. What is really going on here is propaganda spread by both =
sides=20
but, in reality people are people and we are all being fooled on the real=20
truth.
I agree that this is the best place to live on earth but, that is =
because=20
of the people that built this country, not the government we have today. =
When=20
the history books are written about this period, it will be known as the =
most=20
corrupt period in the history of mankind. Do any of us have any real =
evidence on=20
who committed these atrocities in N.Y. and Washington D.C.,or do we have to=
take=20
the word of a corrupt media and law enforcement.
Do you think Lee Harvey Oswald, Sirhan Sirhan, James Earl Ray, or =
Timothy=20
McVey had the brains necessary to pull off their atrocities. I am just as =
much a=20
flag waver as anyone but, when I wave the flag, in my mind it has 13 stars.=
I=20
ask myself, who benefited from this terrible thing and right now I don't =
have an=20
answer but, I will continue to investigate. If you would like to weigh some=
=20
evidence, check this link out. I don't know for sure what's really going on=
but,=20
I do know that I fought in an illegal and unjust war and I'm not taking=20
anybody's word for what is happening now.
kris
http://www.rense.com/=
general13/skolknow.htm
----__JNP_000_5b4a.7f50.5525--
| Message 43
Subject: Re: Steve's story
From: "STEVE SPRING"
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 20:51:09 -0500
Hi Bruce.
Ever tried to hit a stick at 100+ yards with open sights? Last year, I
sighted my rifle in with a scope at that distance. One round and he was
TOAST! This must be his brother
just a matter of time.
Re: The Alamo. I guess about a million Mexicans to 1 Texan was too much.
But, San Jacinto was payback.
Kind of like: A million ragheads armed by a multi-multimillionaire raghead
full of hatred. Their "San Jacinto" is coming!
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Schreiber"
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:11 PM
Subject: Re: Steve's story
Steve I always wondered what the reason the Texans lost at the Alamo
was, now I know they can't shoot straight! I wonder if that's Teds
problem with the golf course gophers?
Bruce
| Message 44
Subject: Re: Steve's story
From: "STEVE SPRING"
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 20:54:28 -0500
Robert,
I say to you too. Try to hit a stick at 100+ meters!!
SS
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Rogers"
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 8:14 AM
Subject: Re: Steve's story
----- Original Message -----
From: "STEVE SPRING"
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 12:16 AM
Subject: Re: Steve's story
> Bad part is that I still missed him
.even after he did his pterodactyl
(sp)
> dive at me. To add insult to injury, "King Tut" was still walking the pond
> this morning.
> (2 more rounds and he went flying
.missed again.)
You might try making a few loop snares, they work for your squirrel
friends too. Use monofilament fishing line. That or a few lessons with your
favorite firearm.
| Message 45
Subject: Re: Some comments on our recent tragedy
From: BMac1978
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 22:25:52 EDT
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In a message dated 9/12/01 10:00:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
gbatten 'at' charter.net writes:
> .
> "Thank You" to all of you on this list outside of the USA who have
> expressed sympathy. Let's continue to share our ideas and questions about
> aquaponics with the common goal of helping each other to spread and share
> this technology around the world for the mutual benefit of all.
>
> God Bless America,
> Gene Batten
> Raleigh, North Carolina, USA
>
That whole letter was wonderful and very true. This is a time to stick
together. One of my greatest concerns is the attacks against American Islams
that are happening right now, all around the Country. Yes, we are angry,
yes, many of us believe that we know who did this terrible act, but in our
anger, I think it is very important that we do not turn into "terrorists"
ourselves by attacking fellow Americans because of their heredity. This
happens every time there is a war, I hope that we Americans can learn from
our past and not persecute people in our Country who are not responsible.
Thanks for listening to me.
Warmly,
Dawn
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In a message dated 9/12/01 10:00:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
gbatten 'at' charter.net writes:
.
"Thank You" to all of you on this list outside of the USA who have
expressed sympathy. Let's continue to share our ideas and questions about
aquaponics with the common goal of helping each other to spread and share
this technology around the world for the mutual benefit of all.
God Bless
America,
Gene
Batten
Raleigh,
North Carolina, USA
That whole letter was wonderful and very true. This is a time to stick
together. One of my greatest concerns is the attacks against American Islams
that are happening right now, all around the Country. Yes, we are angry,
yes, many of us believe that we know who did this terrible act, but in our
anger, I think it is very important that we do not turn into "terrorists"
ourselves by attacking fellow Americans because of their heredity. This
happens every time there is a war, I hope that we Americans can learn from
our past and not persecute people in our Country who are not responsible.
Thanks for listening to me.
Warmly,
Dawn
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| Message 46
Subject: Re: Tree !?!? question
From: BMac1978
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 22:29:35 EDT
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In a message dated 9/12/01 10:09:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
writes:
> Is this what we in Appalachia call catalpa? Nicknames are catabie, cigar
> tree, greenbean tree, etc.? The wood is beautiful, looking much like
> sassafras, light weight, can have a spike driven with 1/4 inch of the end
> and never split, yada yada. It nearly always grows with many suckers and
> hollow centers.
>
I don't think they are talking about Catalpa. Catalpa isn't that fast
growing, and even grows way up here in upper Michigan. The tree they are
talking about is a tropical Tree!
Warmly,
Dawn
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In a message dated 9/12/01 10:09:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
writes:
Is this what we in Appalachia call catalpa?
Nicknames are catabie, cigar
tree, greenbean tree, etc.? The wood is beautiful, looking much like
sassafras, light weight, can have a spike driven with 1/4 inch of the end
and never split, yada yada. It nearly always grows with many suckers and
hollow centers.
I don't think they are talking about Catalpa. Catalpa isn't that fast
growing, and even grows way up here in upper Michigan. The tree they are
talking about is a tropical Tree!
Warmly,
Dawn
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| Message 47
Subject: Re: Terrior
From: "Lloyd R. Prentice"
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 22:32:23 -0400
Hi Steve,
Steven Medlock wrote:
> To all of you who think that doing nothing will stop the violence, you are
> wrong!
I can't recall any proposal that we do nothing. I do hear people saying that we
should act consistently with our very best values, rather than reflexively
lashing out at "them."
I certainly believe that the individuals behind yesterday's attack, and all who
aided and abetted them, should be pursued with utmost determination, identified
through the best evidence that can be brought to bear, judged before all the
world in full glare of their crimes against humanity, and punished. If
well-directed military action is the only way to bring these people out from
behind national borders, then so be it. We can argue about the nature of the
punishment -- but whatever course we take, it should send a clear message to
their children, and ours, that their actions and ideologies are repugnant,
morally and spiritually bankrupt, and utterly unacceptable to the world.
But this alone will probably not be enough.
Marc Golpin from the Fletcher School of Diplomacy said an interesting thing on
TV tonight (paraphrased): "We must find a way to discredit the so-called
religious leaders who are teaching that terrorism and martydom are the way to
heaven."
The irresponsible talk of Holy Wars and God's Armies that is so much in vogue
around the world these days is one of the most essential components in the
explosive mix that fueled yesterday's atrocities and their many lesser
prototypes in the Middle East and Europe in recent years. People who believe
this way and act in this faith, in my view, do not have the good sense that
their God, of whatever, denomination gave them.
I would love to see a 24-hour worldwide telethon of every credible religious
leader representing every major faith and denomination around the world
speaking out to say that the acts of these murderers are morally and
spiritually flat out wrong -- utterly indefensible in every religous tradition.
If this brought just one young, impressionable, sexually-frustrated kid from
the streets of Cairo or Jerusalem to think twice before strapping on the
explosives, or one deluded skinhead in Bakersfield, California, from setting
blaze to a black church, it would be well worth it.
Best wishes, Steve, and deepest respect for your anger,
Lloyd R. Prentice
| Message 48
Subject: Re: Terrorism
From: BMac1978
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 22:42:32 EDT
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In a message dated 9/12/01 11:58:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
writes:
> Not talking about tolerating anyone, especially, not some one who does
> something like we saw yesterday. Talking about looking for the solution in
> something besides violence. Talking about taking responsibility for what WE
> do.
>
> They are not vermon! They are living, breathing, human beings. Until we
> consider them that they will continue to haunt us. The only problem with
> them is they apparently think very much like you do.
>
How right you are Jim, without defending terrorists, there is a reason they
believe what they do about our Country. I think that our Government does a
lot that none of us knows about. Terrorists are a small group of people out
of a larger whole. Do we exterminate the whole, possibly missing that small
group? Do we convince the whole that we actually are what they had heard? I
too don't know the answers. I too think that someone should be punished
including anyone harboring and/or financing the culprits. I truly don't
believe that these were Americans that did this, I do think that we are way
to lenient (sp?) with terrorists and criminals. I do know that I don't have
the answers.
Warmly,
Dawn
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In a message dated 9/12/01 11:58:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
writes:
Not talking about tolerating anyone, especially, not some
one who does
something like we saw yesterday. Talking about looking for the solution in
something besides violence. Talking about taking responsibility for what WE do.
They are not vermon! They are living, breathing, human beings. Until we
consider them that they will continue to haunt us. The only problem with
them is they apparently think very much like you do.
How right you are Jim, without defending terrorists, there is a reason they believe what
they do about our Country. I think that our Government does a lot that none of us knows
about. Terrorists are a small group of people out of a larger whole. Do we
exterminate the whole, possibly missing that small group? Do we convince the whole that
we actually are what they had heard? I too don't know the answers. I too think that
someone should be punished including anyone harboring and/or financing the culprits. I
truly don't believe that these were Americans that did this, I do think that we are way to
lenient (sp?) with terrorists and criminals. I do know that I don't have the answers.
Warmly,
Dawn
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| Message 49
Subject: Re: Steve's story
From: "Chris Jeppesen"
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 21:10:15 -0700
> "STEVE SPRING" <
>
>Hi Bruce.
>
>Re: The Alamo. I guess about a million Mexicans to 1 Texan was too much.
Isn't that Texacan?
that's what I always heard.
Chris Jeppesen
|
