Aquaponics Digest - Thu 09/13/01
Message 1: Re: Steve's story
from Ron Jenkins
Message 2: 911: Resist the Enemy and the Enemy will Flee
from "TGTX"
Message 3: The American spirit
from "Dorothy Mann"
Message 4: Re: Evironmentally & economically sound heating & light . from "gutierrez-lagatta"
Message 5: unsubscribe
from Ron Jenkins
Message 6: Re: Evironmentally & economically sound heating & light . from "TheStraits"
Message 7: Re: Terrorism
from "Robert Rogers"
Message 8: Re: Condolensenses and Strength From Vancouver Island, Can.
from "Robert Rogers"
Message 9: Re: Evironmentally & economically sound heating & light . from "gutierrez-lagatta"
Message 10: terrorists
from Ryon Lucke
Message 11: Re: Terrorism
from Carolyn Hoagland
Message 12: Re: Steve's story
from "Robert Rogers"
Message 13: Re: Steve's story
from "Chris Jeppesen"
Message 14: Our pain, our country's pain, our world's pain
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 15: Re: Terrorism
from Ryon Lucke
Message 16: Re: Our pain, our country's pain, our world's pain
from "Gene Batten"
Message 17: Re: Evironmentally & economically sound heating & light . from "Brent Bingham"
Message 18: Re: Our pain, our country's pain, our world's pain
from Mick
Message 19: Re: Skolnick - US Government Had Prior Knowledge Of Emergency
from "Brent Bingham"
Message 20: Re: Resist the Enemy and the Enemy will Flee
from "Brent Bingham"
Message 21: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Sun 09/09/01
from Arlus Farnsworth
Message 22: plant beds and fish
from "Robert Rogers"
Message 23: water, water, everywhere.
from Andrei Calciu
Message 24: Re: Aquaponics Discussion stoppers
from marc
Message 25: Ecological Compost/Greywater Biosystems
from Elisheva Ruth
Message 26: Re: water, water, everywhere.
from "Brent Bingham"
Message 27: Re: Ecological Compost/Greywater Biosystems/Elisheva
from "Brent Bingham"
Message 28: Re: Ecological Compost/Greywater Biosystems/Elisheva
from Elisheva Ruth
Message 29: Teacher looking for Fish
from "Doug Selby"
Message 30: Re: Aquaponics Discussion stoppers
from "Lloyd R. Prentice"
Message 31: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Sun 09/09/01
from "STEVE SPRING"
Message 32: Re: Our pain, our country's pain, our world's pain
from "Cary Dizon"
Message 33: Re: Our pain, our country's pain, our world's pain
from "Cary Dizon"
| Message 1
Subject: Re: Steve's story
From: Ron Jenkins
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 12:11:47 +0000
Chris Jeppesen wrote:
>
> > "STEVE SPRING" <
> >
> >Hi Bruce.
> >
> >Re: The Alamo. I guess about a million Mexicans to 1 Texan was too much.
> Isn't that Texacan?
> that's what I always heard.
> Chris Jeppesen
>
>
>
>
I believe the term you are looking for is "Texican".
--
Ron Jenkins UNIX/Linux/RF Engineer
CEO
The Blackwing Group LLC vee_eye 'at' mysun.com
Publishing Inquiries rjenkins62 'at' netscape.net
Personal Inquiries jenkinsr62 'at' home.com
-----
" I think it (the bible) is a good book. It is strange that
they are not a better people after having had it so long."
Attakulla (Little Carpenter)
-----
| Message 2
Subject: 911: Resist the Enemy and the Enemy will Flee
From: "TGTX"
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 07:42:26 -0500
Related to our response to the heinous acts perpetrated the Enemy on nine
one one:
My Source instructs me that if we don the full and proper armor, and then
come prepared, and then resist the Enemy, the Enemy will depart from the
region.
This preparation, and active resistance, on our part does not immediately
cause the Enemy to be utterly destroyed in all places, or everywhere in the
Cosmos, for all time, but only at those points of resistance, for the utter
destruction of the Enemy shall be left to my Source to finalize at the
coming nexus, in what I suspect will be the near future.
This preparation and active resistance serves the purpose of preserving the
pilgrim warrior by guiding his path, and it does cause the Enemy to flee
from the dwelling place and temple of the Source. There is one bit of
knowledge that the pilgrim warrior has in common with the Enemy, if only
that one thing. That is to say, we have a common understanding of the facts
of this case, this war. That being that the time the Enemy has is short,
compared with the bigger picture, the long view, the Big Chalupa. The Enemy
knows, as we pilgrims do, that he will "soon" have to "Eat the Big Chalupa",
and so his time is short, and so the rampage and rebellion and offences by
him are increasing exponentially as his final hour approaches.
The little details, such as the personal identities of the operatives of the
Enemy, whether in this case it is Osama bin Laden and his gayly festooned
dance troupe, or the lovely Iraqi band of merry men, or the gayly feathered
Skinheaded Aryans, or a special little arts and crafts offshoot of Arafat's
clan, or even the fashionably dressed Arab or Egyptian operatives of the
ever affectionate Russian Speznatz whose plan is to topple the developed
countries by driving a spike of terror into the markets and economic engines
which preserve and advance those countries and their peoples, thus fomenting
social unrest and violent revolutions to initiate global socialism in a
world with a (surprise! surprise!) revived Soviet Union standing shoulder to
shoulder in "international proletariat solidarity" with the Chinese
Communists
.hey
.it doesn't really matter which of these groups of
loser did it, in the big picture and in the final chapter. Because those
sweet little guys are going to get busted in the numbers and sacked behind
the line of scrimmage. Squashed like a bug on the Windshield of Life, only
in this case, unlike our insect friends that we encounter on the highways at
high speed, you won't see their guts appear because they don't have any.
Regardless, they are gonna eat the Big Chalupa. That is a promise.
The first step in preparation, before donning cleats and pads and helmet, is
stretching out. And the first position for that is for the pilgrim warrior
to descend from a standing position to a kneeling position, with head bowed
in humility before
. my Source that I was talking about. Because of
recent events perpetrated by the Enemy and his operatives, and because of
insufficient preparation, armor wearing, and resistance on our part in the
last century, the next position must be to change from the kneeling position
to laying prostrate, face down, before, you guessed it, the One True Source
and Author of Life.
While the body is in this position, the mind, heart, and spirit must choose
to step down from the rickety throne it has built for itself in the center
of its tumbledown palace, and offer for
guess who
to be seated there
instead, and invited to begin ruling. Positive affirmations and images are
called for at this point, whereby the warrior foreswears: "Even though He
slay me, yet I will trust in Him".
Thank you all who have expressed such heartfelt words of support and
tenderlovingkindness and sympathy to the United States of America. Please
pray for those families that lost their loved ones. Please pray for the
leaders of my country to be instruments of righteousness. Please pray for
those of us that seek to be instruments of righteousness to be open,
receptive, responsive, and obedient to righteousness.
I want now more than ever to be a conduit. Please pray for the tiny country
whose back is up against the wall of the Mediterranean Sea. Please pray for
the people whose countries will be utterly destroyed in the coming wars.
Please pray for the souls of those criminals that planned, supported, and
executed this crime and this mass murder, that their eyes and hearts may be
open, and that "metanoia" and utter transformation may take place before
they meet their end on this bit of rock and dirt we call home for now.
The day they attacked my country I was paralyzed with anger and fear and
shock.
But now I have tapped into a peace that, for lack of a better description,
surpasses all understanding. I plan to don my cleats, pads, and helmet.
But first, I must prepare according to instructions from the Source. I plan
to read what the Source has to say to me. How about you?
Sincerely,
Ted Ground
| Message 3
Subject: The American spirit
From: "Dorothy Mann"
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 08:50:46 -0500
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
=_NextPart_000_0064_01C13C31.2E262380
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charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This 'open letter' was forwarded, and seems worth sharing.
I don't know your name, or names - we may never know who you are - so I
can't address you personally. Today, you killed several thousands of our
friends
.perhaps not people who we knew personally, but people like us.
People who worked hard to make a living, who loved someone, who were =
loved
by someone, who worried about making a better life for their children =
and
grandchildren, who believed in God and the American Dream, who =
criticized
this country for its insufficiencies and cared enough to try and change
things and ensure a better future, not just for us, but for the world.
People who leave behind scores of loved ones, friends, pets, neighbors,
coworkers, and members of their faiths. Perhaps even people who derived =
from
your own country and who sought refuge here.
Your act was a slaughter of the innocents.
You are like an insidious cancer that strikes without warning, ravages
bodies, tears families apart, and in the end can never destroy the soul. =
You
are the ultimate coward.
You may topple our buildings, collapse our communication systems, =
disrupt
our government, crash our markets, and leave behind the carnage of =
bodies,
but you will never destroy the soul of America. We made this country =
from
the bits and pieces of the rest of the world; we took the
best, the worst of every culture and nationality, race and creed, and =
made
an alloy that may be dented, but not even a trial by fire can melt.
I don't know what god you believe in, or what hateful rhetoric you =
espouse,
or what your misguided political beliefs might be that allows you to do =
what
you did today without a fear of eternal damnation. I only know that you =
may
win a battle or two, but you will never win this war.
We have the entire history of the world on our side, and no dictator,
despot, or madman has survived as long as America has thrived and =
prospered.
If you accomplished anything at all today, it was to give America a =
wake-up
call, and we will now rise up stronger than before. You are defeated =
before
you've even begun, there in your private hell and later in your eternal =
one.
Someday your people may even need our help, and because we are America, =
we
would respond.
May God bless the friends we lost, their families, friends, neighbors =
and
coworkers. We will help them rebuild from the ashes. May God continue to
bless America, help her to protect us all, and may she continue to shine =
as
a beacon of democracy and hope to the rest of the world.
Copyright Jim Willis 2001
In deepest sympathy to those who have lost a loved one.
Permission to share.
=_NextPart_000_0064_01C13C31.2E262380
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This 'open=20
letter' was forwarded, and seems worth sharing.
I don't know your =
name,=20
or names - we may never know who you are - so I
can't address you =
personally.=20
Today, you killed several thousands of our
friends
.perhaps not =
people who=20
we knew personally, but people like us.
People who worked hard to =
make a=20
living, who loved someone, who were loved
by someone, who worried =
about=20
making a better life for their children and
grandchildren, who =
believed in=20
God and the American Dream, who criticized
this country for its=20
insufficiencies and cared enough to try and change
things and ensure =
a better=20
future, not just for us, but for the world.
People who leave behind =
scores of=20
loved ones, friends, pets, neighbors,
coworkers, and members of their =
faiths.=20
Perhaps even people who derived from
your own country and who sought =
refuge=20
here.
Your act was a slaughter of the innocents.
You are like an =
insidious=20
cancer that strikes without warning, ravages
bodies, tears families =
apart,=20
and in the end can never destroy the soul. You
are the ultimate=20
coward.
You may topple our buildings, collapse our communication =
systems,=20
disrupt
our government, crash our markets, and leave behind the =
carnage of=20
bodies,
but you will never destroy the soul of America. We made this =
country=20
from
the bits and pieces of the rest of the world; we took =
the
best, the=20
worst of every culture and nationality, race and creed, and made
an =
alloy=20
that may be dented, but not even a trial by fire can melt.
I don't =
know what=20
god you believe in, or what hateful rhetoric you espouse,
or what =
your=20
misguided political beliefs might be that allows you to do what
you =
did today=20
without a fear of eternal damnation. I only know that you may
win a =
battle or=20
two, but you will never win this war.
We have the entire history of =
the world=20
on our side, and no dictator,
despot, or madman has survived as long =
as=20
America has thrived and prospered.
If you accomplished anything at =
all today,=20
it was to give America a wake-up
call, and we will now rise up =
stronger than=20
before. You are defeated before
you've even begun, there in your =
private hell=20
and later in your eternal one.
Someday your people may even need our =
help,=20
and because we are America, we
would respond.
May God bless the =
friends we=20
lost, their families, friends, neighbors and
coworkers. We will help =
them=20
rebuild from the ashes. May God continue to
bless America, help her =
to=20
protect us all, and may she continue to shine as
a beacon of =
democracy and=20
hope to the rest of the world.
Copyright Jim Willis 2001
In =
deepest=20
sympathy to those who have lost a loved one.
Permission to=20
share.
=_NextPart_000_0064_01C13C31.2E262380--
| Message 4
Subject: Re: Evironmentally & economically sound heating & light .From: "gutierrez-lagatta"
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 08:37:12 -0500
Have you checked out http://www.veggievan.org/?
> I'd like to use waste veggie oil from the local
> fast foodies but for $9k I'm wondering if
> I should just set up a water cooled diesel
> generator & go for power & heat in one
> package.
Adriana
| Message 5
Subject: unsubscribe
From: Ron Jenkins
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 13:55:07 +0000
unsubscribe
--
Ron Jenkins UNIX/Linux/RF Engineer
CEO
The Blackwing Group LLC vee_eye 'at' mysun.com
Publishing Inquiries rjenkins62 'at' netscape.net
Personal Inquiries jenkinsr62 'at' home.com
-----
" I think it (the bible) is a good book. It is strange that
they are not a better people after having had it so long."
Attakulla (Little Carpenter)
-----
| Message 6
Subject: Re: Evironmentally & economically sound heating & light .From: "TheStraits"
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 09:27:42 -0500
Hi Adriana,
Thanks .
I do have Tickell's book and I'm
equipping the old Benz to run
straight veggie oil (2nd tank in the trunk)
as he outlined in great detail in the book.
We'll also make some biodiesel to get the
old beater started & warmed up.
I'm looking for a source of experience
running a generator long term for both
heat & power to compare with the
waste oil boiler for heating purposes.
We currently spend several thousand
dollars per year for heat & power without
the greenhouse/aqua set up. I'm trying to
get my mind 'around' a more favorable
way to get the job done.
Here in Minnesota we will very shortly
need significant quantities of heat, sigh,
again. With our darkest months around
the corner, some light helps too.
Any ideas or pointers on how to
approach this would be appreciated.
Dave
Buffalo Minnesota
----- Original Message -----
From: gutierrez-lagatta
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 8:37 AM
Subject: Re: Evironmentally & economically sound heating & light .
> Have you checked out http://www.veggievan.org/?
> > I'd like to use waste veggie oil from the local
> > fast foodies but for $9k I'm wondering if
> > I should just set up a water cooled diesel
> > generator & go for power & heat in one
> > package.
>
> Adriana
>
>
| Message 7
Subject: Re: Terrorism
From: "Robert Rogers"
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 10:22:49 -0400
Do any of you know how many billions of dollars we gave to the palistinians
last year? The same scum that were dancing in the street.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Joyner"
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 11:57 AM
Subject: Re: Terrorism
> Ken,
>
> Not talking about tolerating anyone, especially, not some one who does
> something like we saw yesterday. Talking about looking for the solution in
> something besides violence. Talking about taking responsibility for what
WE do.
>
> They are not vermon! They are living, breathing, human beings. Until we
> consider them that they will continue to haunt us. The only problem with
> them is they apparently think very much like you do.
>
> Jim
>
> At 09:49 AM 9/12/2001 -0500, you wrote:
> >Jim - I think you've been wading in the horse s--- too long. It's
because
> >we been too tolerant of this vermon for too long!!
>
>
| Message 8
Subject: Re: Condolensenses and Strength From Vancouver Island, Can.
From: "Robert Rogers"
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 10:25:10 -0400
Virginia
Thanks, Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Southin Farms"
To: "S&S Farm"
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 12:04 PM
Subject: Condolensenses and Strength From Vancouver Island, Can.
To our American Friends on the Town Square forum,
Our hearts and prayers are with all of you, during this time of grief and
horror. We sit glued to the TV, watching the insanity that has happened. It
helps us feel that we are all "one". I know that our viewpoint on the world
will has been changed from yesterday forward.
The insightful letter from Gene Batten could not be more timely.
May we remain "united" as fellow North Americans, and as "aquaponic" growers
to our countries.
God Bless,
Virginia Jacobsen
THE SOUTHIN FARMS LTD.
10605 Southin Road,
Ladysmith, B.C.
V9G 2A8
Canada
Tel: 250-246-1225
Fax: 250-246-1232
E-mail: southin 'at' telus.net
| Message 9
Subject: Re: Evironmentally & economically sound heating & light .From: "gutierrez-lagatta"
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 09:29:09 -0500
Dave,
Please keep us posted on your experience with the "VeggieBenz". I'm
about to enter my first heated greenhouse season using conventional
gas heaters with great trepidation. I fully expect it to be breakeven
at best. Any recommendations on lower cost, sustainable heating
alternatives will be greatly appreciated.
> I do have Tickell's book and I'm
> equipping the old Benz to run
> straight veggie oil (2nd tank in the trunk)
> as he outlined in great detail in the book.
Adriana
| Message 10
Subject: terrorists
From: Ryon Lucke
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 07:34:07 -0700 (PDT)
> It's time for people to understand that there is no good reason
> to take a life.
Except that some individuals, by their individual actions, show themselves
unfit to remain among us.
| Message 11
Subject: Re: Terrorism
From: Carolyn Hoagland
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 09:38:05 -0500
>To all of you who think that doing nothing will stop
>the violence, you are wrong!
Red,
I don't think anyone is saying we ought to roll over and play dead.
Several of us have suggested that we not go off "half cocked." I
assume this was an act of war by somebody. Before we go off bombing
and shooting, we need to know who did it, why they did it, and take as
much time as we need to decide the best course of action.
I assume we need to punish those who did this, *and* look at the
policies that make them hate us so.
Carolyn
| Message 12
Subject: Re: Steve's story
From: "Robert Rogers"
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 10:40:35 -0400
I thought he was hitting the end of your weapon
----- Original Message -----
From: "STEVE SPRING"
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 9:54 PM
Subject: Re: Steve's story
> Robert,
>
> I say to you too. Try to hit a stick at 100+ meters!!
>
> SS
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robert Rogers"
>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 8:14 AM
> Subject: Re: Steve's story
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "STEVE SPRING"
>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 12:16 AM
> Subject: Re: Steve's story
>
>
> > Bad part is that I still missed him
.even after he did his pterodactyl
> (sp)
> > dive at me. To add insult to injury, "King Tut" was still walking the
pond
> > this morning.
> > (2 more rounds and he went flying
.missed again.)
>
> You might try making a few loop snares, they work for your squirrel
> friends too. Use monofilament fishing line. That or a few lessons with
your
> favorite firearm.
>
>
>
| Message 13
Subject: Re: Steve's story
From: "Chris Jeppesen"
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 07:42:15 -0700
Ron
You are so right. I stand corrected.
>I believe the term you are looking for is "Texican".
>--
>Ron Jenkins UNIX/Linux/RF Engineer
>
| Message 14
Subject: Our pain, our country's pain, our world's pain
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 09:43:24 -0500
As we all try to sort through the events of this week
.and many to come,
I fear; let's try to remember those things we have in common
at least
among those on this list.
The actions of the few can never reflect the hearts of the many. No more
than the guilt of, say, our children's actions be completely laid at the
feet of the parents. In this time of fear and uncertainty in our world,
this country is just receiving a share of what others have known in their
lives. For some of our members, that would mean their ENTIRE lives.
This group, although a small representation of the whole, is comprised of
members from every continent and many, many countries. What brings us
together
here
is a common interest in the subject of aquaponics.
While I understand the need to express thoughts and feelings, and don't
normally curtail any discussions here, I also don't want this group to be
the cause of more division in our own "international community."
I buried my mother last week. There will be many more grieving families in
the US and abroad for weeks (years?) to come. Civility should, and will,
prevail on this list.
God bless you all, your families, and your work as we jointly try to sort
out the insanity that exists in this world.
Paula
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
| Message 15
Subject: Re: Terrorism
From: Ryon Lucke
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 07:49:32 -0700 (PDT)
>
> I assume we need to punish those who did this, *and* look at the
> policies that make them hate us so.
>
No policy "made" them hate us; they CHOSE to hate. Many of then want to go
on hating- they don't want "solutions"- they just want to go on hating- it
energizes them, or something. We cannot change them; we can only defend
ourselves against them.
The individuals who did and abetted these things are responsible for
their own actions. "Policies" are not responsible.
| Message 16
Subject: Re: Our pain, our country's pain, our world's pain
From: "Gene Batten"
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 11:06:59 -0400
Dear Paula,
In your recent email, I learned of your mother's pasing last week. My
thoughts and prayers are with you and your family as you adjust to your
loss.
God Bless You,
Gene Batten
----- Original Message -----
> -- SNIP --
> I buried my mother last week. There will be many more grieving families
in
> the US and abroad for weeks (years?) to come. Civility should, and will,
> prevail on this list.
>
> God bless you all, your families, and your work as we jointly try to sort
> out the insanity that exists in this world.
>
> Paula
> S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
> Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
>
| Message 17
Subject: Re: Evironmentally & economically sound heating & light .From: "Brent Bingham"
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 08:43:53 -0700
It is a 350K waste oil fueled boiler and Fred Derst is Fred at
chillerinfo 'at' 37.com
Brent
----- Original Message -----
From: "TheStraits"
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 5:41 PM
Subject: Re: Evironmentally & economically sound heating & light .
> > If you make a little biogas you can cut down your diesel use by 65 % ++.
> > If you do not say where it came from you can get the $9,000.00 cut by
> Fred.
> > Brent
>
> I've followed some of the threads on biogas, so I'm sure we
> can build a unit. We're on 12 acres so a central power plant
> makes a lot of sense
. And there is a waste stream .>
> > If you do not say where it came from you can get the $9,000.00 cut by
> Fred.
>
> Okay, Brent, you got me. Who is Fred and why would he care
> where 'it' came from ??? Is Ted at your place ? Did he put you
> up to this ? Which 'it' are we talking about ???
>
> ;-o)
>
> Dave
> Buffalo Minnesota
>
>
>
>
>
| Message 18
Subject: Re: Our pain, our country's pain, our world's pain
From: Mick
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 11:49:18 -0500
Dear Paula,
Deepest condolences on the loss of your mother.
God bless,
Mick
| Message 19
Subject: Re: Skolnick - US Government Had Prior Knowledge Of Emergency
From: "Brent Bingham"
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 10:58:19 -0700
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Kris,=20
We had prior knowledge or Pearl Harbor and yes there is good reason to =
take a life. I believe you have been fed too much bleeding hart liberal =
tripe! Just as Pearl Harbor was not
all we had to worry about then we all know if we continue to placate =
terrorists it will get worse. We must go after them where they live as =
they do to us. They set the rules of engagement and then we must play by =
there rules. You are right about propaganda and there's is state =
sponsored. You forget we can find out the truth in the USA. It takes a =
while
and then you must choose to believe or not believe. One of the victims =
on one of the planes was Barbara Olsen who described who the hijackers =
were and much information about them.
Inspite of it, many said they could be Americans and not to jump to =
conclusions. I am appalled that you continue to try to divert attention =
away from the fact that these people are truly evil. When Israel =
retaliates against the evil it faces daily, it is in our news. Do you =
see any in the US out in the streets celebrating? No! Kris, you are =
wrong, this is not the same. I believe it is foolish and simple minded =
to even try to compare" them" to US.
Democracies do and must fight wars. Young men like Bill Clinton do not =
fight wars, they run away. Young men DO have every thing to gain by =
protecting our liberty and every thing to loose by doing nothing. All =
that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good young men to do =
nothing. This World War III started a long time ago and we now are =
fighting it on our own shores because we did nothing while Clinton was =
in office. If you think the media is all corrupt you are watching all =
the wrong media, Try FOX or Rush or Olli North.=20
It is obvious you have issues with Nam but this is not Nam and it is not =
similar. You need help dealing with things you should have delta with =
years ago! Most of us have moved on you also must move on. If we are so =
bad in the USA pick a place as good or better and MOVE ON! Our =
democracies is based on the best constitution in the world.=20
Brent=20
----- Original Message -----=20
From: kris book=20
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com=20
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 6:12 PM
Subject: Skolnick - US Government Had Prior Knowledge Of Emergency
Brent,
Democracies don't fight wars, young men with nothing to gain fight =
wars and die. It's time for people to understand that there is no good =
reason to take a life. Not the terrorists and not the U.S. Government =
either. If you think this opening volley is all that we have to worry =
about, I'm afraid you will be sorely disappointed. Unless cooler heads =
prevail, we are on the verge of World War III.
What I was trying to say about the people celebrating was that they =
seemed genuinely happy to hear that a blow had been struck against the =
U.S.A
Those people believe that we are evil and the majority of this =
country believes that they are evil. What is really going on here is =
propaganda spread by both sides but, in reality people are people and we =
are all being fooled on the real truth.
I agree that this is the best place to live on earth but, that is =
because of the people that built this country, not the government we =
have today. When the history books are written about this period, it =
will be known as the most corrupt period in the history of mankind. Do =
any of us have any real evidence on who committed these atrocities in =
N.Y. and Washington D.C.,or do we have to take the word of a corrupt =
media and law enforcement.
Do you think Lee Harvey Oswald, Sirhan Sirhan, James Earl Ray, or =
Timothy McVey had the brains necessary to pull off their atrocities. I =
am just as much a flag waver as anyone but, when I wave the flag, in my =
mind it has 13 stars. I ask myself, who benefited from this terrible =
thing and right now I don't have an answer but, I will continue to =
investigate. If you would like to weigh some evidence, check this link =
out. I don't know for sure what's really going on but, I do know that I =
fought in an illegal and unjust war and I'm not taking anybody's word =
for what is happening now.
kris
http://www.rense.com/general13/skolknow.htm
=_NextPart_000_0032_01C13C42.FFBCB5B0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Kris,
We had prior knowledge or Pearl Harbor =
and yes=20
there is good reason to take a life. I believe you have been fed too =
much=20
bleeding hart liberal tripe! Just as Pearl Harbor was not
all we had to worry about then we all =
know if we=20
continue to placate terrorists it will get worse. We must go after them =
where=20
they live as they do to us. They set the rules of engagement and then we =
must=20
play by there rules. You are right about propaganda and there's is state =
sponsored. You forget we can find out the truth in the USA. It =
takes a=20
while
and then you must choose to =
believe or=20
not believe. One of the victims on one of the planes was Barbara Olsen =
who=20
described who the hijackers were and much information about =
them.
Inspite of it, many said they could be =
Americans=20
and not to jump to conclusions. I am appalled that you continue to try =
to divert=20
attention away from the fact that these people are truly evil. When =
Israel=20
retaliates against the evil it faces daily, it is in our news. Do you =
see any in=20
the US out in the streets celebrating? No! Kris, you are wrong, =
this is=20
not the same. I believe it =
is foolish=20
and simple minded to even try to compare" them" to US.
Democracies do and must fight wars. =
Young men like=20
Bill Clinton do not fight wars, they run away. Young men DO have every =
thing to=20
gain by protecting our liberty and every thing to loose by doing =
nothing.=20
All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good young men to do =
nothing.=20
This World War III started a long time ago and we now are fighting it on =
our own=20
shores because we did nothing while Clinton was in office. If you think =
the=20
media is all corrupt you are watching all the wrong media, Try FOX or =
Rush or=20
Olli North.
It is obvious you have issues with Nam =
but this is=20
not Nam and it is not similar. You need help dealing with things =
you should=20
have delta with years ago! Most of us have moved on you also must move =
on. If we=20
are so bad in the USA pick a place as good or better and MOVE ON! Our=20
democracies is based on the best constitution in the world. =
Brent
----- Original Message -----
From:=20
kris =
book=20
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, =
2001 6:12=20
PM
Subject: Skolnick - US =
Government Had=20
Prior Knowledge Of Emergency
Brent,
Democracies don't fight wars, young men with nothing to gain =
fight wars=20
and die. It's time for people to understand that there is no good =
reason to=20
take a life. Not the terrorists and not the U.S. Government either. If =
you=20
think this opening volley is all that we have to worry about, I'm =
afraid you=20
will be sorely disappointed. Unless cooler heads prevail, we are on =
the verge=20
of World War III.
What I was trying to say about the people celebrating was that =
they=20
seemed genuinely happy to hear that a blow had been struck against the =
U.S.A
=20
Those people believe that we are evil and the majority of this country =
believes that they are evil. What is really going on here is =
propaganda spread=20
by both sides but, in reality people are people and we are all being =
fooled on=20
the real truth.
I agree that this is the best place to live on earth but, that is =
because=20
of the people that built this country, not the government we have =
today. When=20
the history books are written about this period, it will be known as =
the most=20
corrupt period in the history of mankind. Do any of us have any real =
evidence=20
on who committed these atrocities in N.Y. and Washington D.C.,or do we =
have to=20
take the word of a corrupt media and law enforcement.
Do you think Lee Harvey Oswald, Sirhan Sirhan, James Earl Ray, or =
Timothy=20
McVey had the brains necessary to pull off their atrocities. I am just =
as much=20
a flag waver as anyone but, when I wave the flag, in my mind it has 13 =
stars.=20
I ask myself, who benefited from this terrible thing and right now I =
don't=20
have an answer but, I will continue to investigate. If you would like =
to weigh=20
some evidence, check this link out. I don't know for sure what's =
really going=20
on but, I do know that I fought in an illegal and unjust war and I'm =
not=20
taking anybody's word for what is happening now.
kris
http://www.rense.com=
/general13/skolknow.htm
=_NextPart_000_0032_01C13C42.FFBCB5B0--
| Message 20
Subject: Re: Resist the Enemy and the Enemy will Flee
From: "Brent Bingham"
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 11:11:36 -0700
Thank you TGTX.
Brent
----- Original Message -----
From: "TGTX"
Cc: ; "Jeff Sargent" ;
;
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 5:42 AM
Subject: 911: Resist the Enemy and the Enemy will Flee
> Related to our response to the heinous acts perpetrated the Enemy on nine
> one one:
>
> My Source instructs me that if we don the full and proper armor, and then
> come prepared, and then resist the Enemy, the Enemy will depart from the
> region.
>
> This preparation, and active resistance, on our part does not immediately
> cause the Enemy to be utterly destroyed in all places, or everywhere in
the
> Cosmos, for all time, but only at those points of resistance, for the
utter
> destruction of the Enemy shall be left to my Source to finalize at the
> coming nexus, in what I suspect will be the near future.
>
> This preparation and active resistance serves the purpose of preserving
the
> pilgrim warrior by guiding his path, and it does cause the Enemy to flee
> from the dwelling place and temple of the Source. There is one bit of
> knowledge that the pilgrim warrior has in common with the Enemy, if only
> that one thing. That is to say, we have a common understanding of the
facts
> of this case, this war. That being that the time the Enemy has is short,
> compared with the bigger picture, the long view, the Big Chalupa. The
Enemy
> knows, as we pilgrims do, that he will "soon" have to "Eat the Big
Chalupa",
> and so his time is short, and so the rampage and rebellion and offences by
> him are increasing exponentially as his final hour approaches.
>
> The little details, such as the personal identities of the operatives of
the
> Enemy, whether in this case it is Osama bin Laden and his gayly festooned
> dance troupe, or the lovely Iraqi band of merry men, or the gayly
feathered
> Skinheaded Aryans, or a special little arts and crafts offshoot of
Arafat's
> clan, or even the fashionably dressed Arab or Egyptian operatives of the
> ever affectionate Russian Speznatz whose plan is to topple the developed
> countries by driving a spike of terror into the markets and economic
engines
> which preserve and advance those countries and their peoples, thus
fomenting
> social unrest and violent revolutions to initiate global socialism in a
> world with a (surprise! surprise!) revived Soviet Union standing shoulder
to
> shoulder in "international proletariat solidarity" with the Chinese
> Communists
.hey
.it doesn't really matter which of these groups of
> loser did it, in the big picture and in the final chapter. Because those
> sweet little guys are going to get busted in the numbers and sacked behind
> the line of scrimmage. Squashed like a bug on the Windshield of Life,
only
> in this case, unlike our insect friends that we encounter on the highways
at
> high speed, you won't see their guts appear because they don't have any.
> Regardless, they are gonna eat the Big Chalupa. That is a promise.
>
> The first step in preparation, before donning cleats and pads and helmet,
is
> stretching out. And the first position for that is for the pilgrim warrior
> to descend from a standing position to a kneeling position, with head
bowed
> in humility before
. my Source that I was talking about. Because of
> recent events perpetrated by the Enemy and his operatives, and because of
> insufficient preparation, armor wearing, and resistance on our part in the
> last century, the next position must be to change from the kneeling
position
> to laying prostrate, face down, before, you guessed it, the One True
Source
> and Author of Life.
>
> While the body is in this position, the mind, heart, and spirit must
choose
> to step down from the rickety throne it has built for itself in the center
> of its tumbledown palace, and offer for
guess who
to be seated
there
> instead, and invited to begin ruling. Positive affirmations and images
are
> called for at this point, whereby the warrior foreswears: "Even though He
> slay me, yet I will trust in Him".
>
> Thank you all who have expressed such heartfelt words of support and
> tenderlovingkindness and sympathy to the United States of America. Please
> pray for those families that lost their loved ones. Please pray for the
> leaders of my country to be instruments of righteousness. Please pray for
> those of us that seek to be instruments of righteousness to be open,
> receptive, responsive, and obedient to righteousness.
> I want now more than ever to be a conduit. Please pray for the tiny
country
> whose back is up against the wall of the Mediterranean Sea. Please pray
for
> the people whose countries will be utterly destroyed in the coming wars.
> Please pray for the souls of those criminals that planned, supported, and
> executed this crime and this mass murder, that their eyes and hearts may
be
> open, and that "metanoia" and utter transformation may take place before
> they meet their end on this bit of rock and dirt we call home for now.
>
> The day they attacked my country I was paralyzed with anger and fear and
> shock.
> But now I have tapped into a peace that, for lack of a better description,
> surpasses all understanding. I plan to don my cleats, pads, and helmet.
> But first, I must prepare according to instructions from the Source. I
plan
> to read what the Source has to say to me. How about you?
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Ted Ground
>
>
| Message 21
Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Sun 09/09/01
From: Arlus Farnsworth
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 11:29:26 -0700
Steve, since you wish for my opinion, I will give it.
If a fish is too domesticated to avoid predators, obviously it should be
located in a protected location or given more protection. If your idea
of protection is waving a gun around and firing off rounds then you have
way too much time on your hands, simply not an efficient method, hence
the comparison to entertainment. While many people don't have a problem
with this type of diversion, for me it is only a matter of utility.
Killing stuff clouds my mind, I am one who appreciates thinking clearly.
Having a way to think of what I am doing helps. Don't get me wrong, I am
a farmer and a hunter by nature. I understand protecting yourself, it
seems like there are easier ways than to get pissed off at a bird.
Either do the deed or try something else. My buddy has goldfish in a
small pond. When racoon attacks became relentless he tried various
methods. One that worked was to lay down a stainless steel grate about
six inches off the bottom, weighed down with large stones. This offers
the additional benefit of some shade. For the bird, I should think some
netting over the top would suffice.
Quequeeg
STEVE SPRING wrote:
>
> Hi Arlus,
>
> If you were raising sheep or cattle and the coyote, wolves and cougars were
> killing and eating your livestock, wouldn't you do something about it? Sure
> you would. But, that is o.k. Right??
>
> 'splain the difference to me.
>
> I'm just like that rancher/farmer. I operate on a very small profit/loss
> scenario. I don't hunt, fish or any of these; but, if an animal/bird
> threatens my business
.Oh Well! It is not that this SOB doesn't have
> adequate feeding grounds available. He/she has just staked out my little
> pond as his/her private property. As I said previously, the SOB is TOAST
> eventually!
>
> Steve
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Arlus Farnsworth"
>
> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 2:57 PM
> Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Sun 09/09/01
>
> Someone from around here had to spend time in jail because he shot an
> owl that was disturbing his football game on tv. Fines and lifetime care
> for the disabled bird included. My brother killed the neighbors chickens
> with a bb gun, just for fun.
| Message 22
Subject: plant beds and fish
From: "Robert Rogers"
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 14:54:42 -0400
I have been ask by a friend to design and install a plant bed to
filter the water in a goldfish pond. The plants will be ornamental marginal
plants, any ideas on what the square/cubic footage should be. The pond is
about 1000 gal.
I hope my comments and comments of others in the last few days have not
offended anyone too much, it is an emotional time. We as a nation and
nations must stand together and strong.
Bob
| Message 23
Subject: water, water, everywhere.
From: Andrei Calciu
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 14:58:10 -0400
I was reading some weird stuff about usage of sewage water on crops and I
had a thought. Is there a way to privately treat/process household "grey
water" (water from dishwashers, clothes washers, sinks and tubs, but no
toilets) and use it for irrigating the crop or vegetable garden? Or could
that be used in any way to replenish pond/recirculating system water in an
aquaponics setup?
-_______________
Andrei D. Calciu (VA-4270)
NEC America, Inc.
14040 Park Center Dr.
Herndon, VA 20171-3227
Voice: 703-834-4273
Fax: 703-787-6613
This message and any attachment are confidential. If you are not the
intended recipient, please telephone or email the sender and delete the
message and any attachment from your system. If you are not the intended
recipient you must not copy this message or attachment or disclose the
contents to any other person.
| Message 24
Subject: Re: Aquaponics Discussion stoppers
From: marc
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 13:34:01 -0600
Lloyd,
I am saddened at your need to use "therapizing" in an
attempt to make it seem like I "NEED" support.
I am shocked and saddened by your choice to ignore the gist
of my communication that others do not feel welcome on this
list and are so disenfranchised the mode of contact is off
list.
This communicative "black arts" approach is so unlike your
usual reasonable communicative technique and seems to be so
contrary to your usual truth seeking efforts.
I regret any contribution from me that could have
contributed to your injury and this unfortunate tactic you
choose to engage in. I assure you it was unintentional.
Marc Nameth
>> I have received significant support off list but why off
>> list??
> Why do you need support, Marc?
| Message 25
Subject: Ecological Compost/Greywater Biosystems
From: Elisheva Ruth
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 15:39:47 +0000
Andrei and Friends,
I have been working in Palestine and Israel for many years in
community-based ww treatment and sustainable farming,
hence my involvement in this list with excellent resources.
The potential for small-scale aquaponics and ww biosystems
is an important local solution esp for Palestinians and
many others world-wide in water-scarce regions.
I am experimenting in Jerusalem and the West Bank with
trench composting systems irrigated with separated greywater,
but concerned about pathogen contamination.
I am investigating earthworms to control potential pathogens.
Any suggestions? references?
Thanks Kindly,
Eli
********
DRAFT FOR COMMENTS AND SUGGESTIONS
Ecological Compost/Greywater Biosystems
=8CThe wondrous powers of microorganisms in healthy soil to
filter and cleanse wastewater pathogens and viruses provides
the model for wastewater treatment systems.=B9 Peter Warshall
What is Greywater?
Greywater is the household water from showers, sinks, washing and general
use, everything except toilets. Homes with infants or ill individuals can
generate greywater close to blackwater. =A0The difference between greywater
and blackwater is that since greywater does not carry =B9humanure=B9 from
toilets, =A0greywater can be cleansed and used for irrigation much faster and
more safely.
Consider how much water can be saved if each of us recycled our greywater !
Over two-thirds =A0of home water-use is =A0greywater that can safely irrigate a
home, small commercial garden, orchard or landscape with simple on-site
=A0appropriate treatment. For garden and landscape irrigation, greywater can
replace fresh water. Despite the potential of this resource, few people
have basic knowledge of how ecological biosystems can treat greywater at a
fraction of the cost of conventional systems. =A0
Note: A serious concern when using treated wastewater for food production i=
s
the problem of pathogen contamination, especially around children. This
project minimized pathogen contamination concerns=A0by using separated
greywater for the intermediate use of compost production only instead of fo=
r
direct irrigation. =A0=A0Children do not have direct contact with the greywater=.
What is a Biofilter?
A compost/greywater biosystem is =A0a biological =A0filter, or biofilter, with
aerated surfaces on which microorganisms grow and metabolize the organic
matter. A biofilter is a living ecosystem. Biological filtration involves
metabolism by aerobic or anerobic microbes attached to substrates. The
process we are concerned with in composting/greywater treatment are the
aerobic decomposition functions that require a natural oxygen flow between
leaves, in soil pores, around rocks or exuding from the plant roots on
wetland species. =A0A compost/greywater biosystem must be supplied with oxyge=
n
in order to function properly. The microorganisms that =B9treat=B9 =A0the organi=
c
waste in greywater do this by =A0metabolizing (decomposing) the organic matte=
r
in the water. They are the =A0same =A0microbes that live in healthy soil and in
the compost pile and require the same conditions.
The basic principle to treat foodscraps and greywater =A0is:
Let nature do the work.
The conditions that the microorganisms need to thrive are: air, water and
food. When these basics are provided, there can be unlimited creativity in
=A0designing compost/greywater biosystems to enhance any landscape.
Compost/Greywater Biosystem Basics
Just as ecological agriculture harnesses natural soil regeneration
functions, such as composting and cover cropping, to build fertile soil
teaming with self-sustaining life processes, ecological water restoration
processes use aquatic ecosystem functions to cleanse and purify wastewater.
Composting/greywater biosystems harness and intensify the regenerative
functions and relationships in healthy soil and aquatic ecosystem processes=.
Healthy soil with good drainage provides a natural system model for
greywater treatment. The microorganisms and earthworms in biologically
active topsoil with good tilth are a complex community of soil microbes tha=
t
metabolize, cleanse and purify water. The diverse microorganisms living in
the manure of earthworms biologically control disease-causing pathogens.
Heavy clay or very sandy soil lack the organic matter that nourishes soil
life for the vital soil ecosystem that metabolized organic mater. Adding
living compost to clay or sandy soil increases aeration, drainage and
decomposition activity significantly so any soil can become a living
treatment system as nature intended.
Urban soil typically lacks the tilth, drainage and soil foodweb essential
for healthy soil to digest the organic matter and control pathogens in
greywater. Therefore we designed a composting/greywater biosystems that
simultaneously restore soil and cleanse water .
A composting/greywater biosystem begins as a passively aerated compost
trench irrigated by greywater. As the decomposition process progresses,
metabolizing the organic matter into stable humus, the biosystem is
transformed into a fertile garden bed. To promote the formation of stable
humus (with humus-clay colloids for available fertility and a good cation
exchange capacity), it is recommended to sprinkle clay soil lightly
throughout the biosystem.
Earthworms
A moist aerated compost trench rich with decomposing organic matter is an
nourishing environment for earthworms. The species of earthworm most common
in Israeli/Palestinian soil is not the red wiggler (esenia fotida) manure
worm best suited for the job, so initially we bought a bucket of red wiggle=
r
earthworms (from Kibbutz Dovrat in the Galil) for the school composting
system. In the trench biosystem at SPNI, earthworms came by themselves and
reproduce abundantly. If they do not come by themselves, by all means
innoculate the system with earthworms found in moist organic matter-rich
soil, at the bottom of leaf piles or manure pits.
The Importance of Adding Clay to Compost Biosystems:
Adding clay to the compost process generates clay-humus colloidal complexe=
s
that are the foundation of soil fertility, and a good cation exchange
capacity. They perform key chemical reactions and nutrient exchange
functions in soil, as well as providw food and habitat for soil life. By
attracting mineral ions to their surfaces, essential nutrients are
maintained in the soil instead of leaching out, and are released slowly
for plant uptake. =20
********
PS: I am available off-list to discuss the situation we all are facing now
The following helps:
******
Marcie A. Rosenzweig
I confess to the initial dark and violent impulse a lot of us no
doubt felt. This morning I'm reminded of the wisdom of the great
allegorist Gene Roddenberry. Does anyone else remember the Star Trek
episode with the entity that fed on hatred, becoming stronger as it
instigated anger and caught more humans at their worst? While we are
not yet ready for the laughter that was the choice of the crew,
perhaps compassion and love for one another is an even more potent
means of sending this monster to the other side of the universe.
Yes, I still believe that putting a rabid dog down contains the
infection and protects the community. I just don't need to take out
all the pups in the area to accomplish that.
=20
'An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind." Gandhi
Some Mideast Webs of a spectrum of perspectives:
www.ipcri.org=20
www.israelnationalnews.org
www.phg.org
> From: Andrei Calciu
> Reply-To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
> Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 14:58:10 -0400
> To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
> Subject: water, water, everywhere.
>=20
> I was reading some weird stuff about usage of sewage water on crops and I
> had a thought. Is there a way to privately treat/process household "grey
> water" (water from dishwashers, clothes washers, sinks and tubs, but no
> toilets) and use it for irrigating the crop or vegetable garden? Or could
> that be used in any way to replenish pond/recirculating system water in a=
n
> aquaponics setup?
>=20
> -_______________
> Andrei D. Calciu (VA-4270)
> NEC America, Inc.
> 14040 Park Center Dr.
> Herndon, VA 20171-3227
>=20
> Voice: 703-834-4273
> Fax: 703-787-6613
>=20
> This message and any attachment are confidential. If you are not the
> intended recipient, please telephone or email the sender and delete the
> message and any attachment from your system. If you are not the intended
> recipient you must not copy this message or attachment or disclose the
> contents to any other person.
>=20
>=20
>=20
| Message 26
Subject: Re: water, water, everywhere.
From: "Brent Bingham"
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 12:59:31 -0700
Andrei,
Yes, run it through a separate septic tank first. You can then create a
small pond with duck weed or other similar aquatic filter. You can create a
small fountain to aerate the water first but we have found it is not
necessary. Let the water flow to a tertiary pond to polish it and use it
from the third step. The plants from the secondary treatment can feed fish
or livestock or composted. We use the water on ornamentals not vegetables
for human consumption. We test for coliform bacteria and have never found
them BUT we do not chlorinate the water so there is the potential of
contamination. We pump all our water at many of our locations, from several
hundreds feet deep so reusing water is a financial necessity. It is easy to
set up a small integrated bio system to treat your water. There are a number
of other plants to use if your weather permits.
Brent
----- Original Message -----
From:
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 11:58 AM
Subject: water, water, everywhere.
> I was reading some weird stuff about usage of sewage water on crops and I
> had a thought. Is there a way to privately treat/process household "grey
> water" (water from dishwashers, clothes washers, sinks and tubs, but no
> toilets) and use it for irrigating the crop or vegetable garden? Or could
> that be used in any way to replenish pond/recirculating system water in an
> aquaponics setup?
>
> -_______________
> Andrei D. Calciu (VA-4270)
> NEC America, Inc.
> 14040 Park Center Dr.
> Herndon, VA 20171-3227
>
> Voice: 703-834-4273
> Fax: 703-787-6613
>
> This message and any attachment are confidential. If you are not the
> intended recipient, please telephone or email the sender and delete the
> message and any attachment from your system. If you are not the intended
> recipient you must not copy this message or attachment or disclose the
> contents to any other person.
>
>
>
| Message 27
Subject: Re: Ecological Compost/Greywater Biosystems/Elisheva
From: "Brent Bingham"
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 13:12:44 -0700
If you have enough material to compost you probably have enough to create=
a
Bio Gas Digester. The newer designs have very good pathogen reduction. So=
lar
heat is used in the final step to kill pathogens and increase gas
production.
Biogas is easy to make and the digester is rather easy to build. The end
products are more valuable than compost alone. Greywater has the same
pathogens as blackwater but not as many. Pathogens from ill persons are
spread to; bedding, wash water, bedding, eating utensils etc., etc. . A
properly designed digester can and does pay for itself.
Brent
----- Original Message -----
From: "Elisheva Ruth"
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 8:39 AM
Subject: Ecological Compost/Greywater Biosystems
> Andrei and Friends,
>
> I have been working in Palestine and Israel for many years in
> community-based ww treatment and sustainable farming,
> hence my involvement in this list with excellent resources.
>
> The potential for small-scale aquaponics and ww biosystems
> is an important local solution esp for Palestinians and
> many others world-wide in water-scarce regions.
>
> I am experimenting in Jerusalem and the West Bank with
> trench composting systems irrigated with separated greywater,
> but concerned about pathogen contamination.
> I am investigating earthworms to control potential pathogens.
> Any suggestions? references?
>
> Thanks Kindly,
> Eli
>
> ********
> DRAFT FOR COMMENTS AND SUGGESTIONS
>
> Ecological Compost/Greywater Biosystems
>
> OThe wondrous powers of microorganisms in healthy soil to
> filter and cleanse wastewater pathogens and viruses provides
> the model for wastewater treatment systems.=B9 Peter Warshall
>
> What is Greywater?
> Greywater is the household water from showers, sinks, washing and gener=
al
> use, everything except toilets. Homes with infants or ill individuals c=
an
> generate greywater close to blackwater. The difference between greywate=
r
> and blackwater is that since greywater does not carry =B9humanure=B9 fr=
om
> toilets, greywater can be cleansed and used for irrigation much faster =
and
> more safely.
>
> Consider how much water can be saved if each of us recycled our greywat=
er
!
> Over two-thirds of home water-use is greywater that can safely irrigate=
a
> home, small commercial garden, orchard or landscape with simple on-site
> appropriate treatment. For garden and landscape irrigation, greywater c=
an
> replace fresh water. Despite the potential of this resource, few peopl=
e
> have basic knowledge of how ecological biosystems can treat greywater a=
t a
> fraction of the cost of conventional systems.
>
> Note: A serious concern when using treated wastewater for food producti=
on
is
> the problem of pathogen contamination, especially around children. This
> project minimized pathogen contamination concerns by using separated
> greywater for the intermediate use of compost production only instead o=
f
for
> direct irrigation. Children do not have direct contact with the greywat=
er.
>
> What is a Biofilter?
> A compost/greywater biosystem is a biological filter, or biofilter, wit=
h
> aerated surfaces on which microorganisms grow and metabolize the organi=
c
> matter. A biofilter is a living ecosystem. Biological filtration involv=
es
> metabolism by aerobic or anerobic microbes attached to substrates. The
> process we are concerned with in composting/greywater treatment are th=
e
> aerobic decomposition functions that require a natural oxygen flow betw=
een
> leaves, in soil pores, around rocks or exuding from the plant roots on
> wetland species. A compost/greywater biosystem must be supplied with
oxygen
> in order to function properly. The microorganisms that =B9treat=B9 the
organic
> waste in greywater do this by metabolizing (decomposing) the organic
matter
> in the water. They are the same microbes that live in healthy soil and =
in
> the compost pile and require the same conditions.
>
> The basic principle to treat foodscraps and greywater is:
>
> Let nature do the work.
>
> The conditions that the microorganisms need to thrive are: air, water a=
nd
> food. When these basics are provided, there can be unlimited creativity=
in
> designing compost/greywater biosystems to enhance any landscape.
>
> Compost/Greywater Biosystem Basics
> Just as ecological agriculture harnesses natural soil regeneration
> functions, such as composting and cover cropping, to build fertile soi=
l
> teaming with self-sustaining life processes, ecological water
restoration
> processes use aquatic ecosystem functions to cleanse and purify
wastewater.
> Composting/greywater biosystems harness and intensify the regenerativ=
e
> functions and relationships in healthy soil and aquatic ecosystem
processes.
>
> Healthy soil with good drainage provides a natural system model for
> greywater treatment. The microorganisms and earthworms in biologically
> active topsoil with good tilth are a complex community of soil microbes
that
> metabolize, cleanse and purify water. The diverse microorganisms living=
in
> the manure of earthworms biologically control disease-causing pathogen=
s.
> Heavy clay or very sandy soil lack the organic matter that nourishes s=
oil
> life for the vital soil ecosystem that metabolized organic mater. Addin=
g
> living compost to clay or sandy soil increases aeration, drainage and
> decomposition activity significantly so any soil can become a living
> treatment system as nature intended.
>
> Urban soil typically lacks the tilth, drainage and soil foodweb essenti=
al
> for healthy soil to digest the organic matter and control pathogens in
> greywater. Therefore we designed a composting/greywater biosystems that
> simultaneously restore soil and cleanse water .
>
> A composting/greywater biosystem begins as a passively aerated compost
> trench irrigated by greywater. As the decomposition process progresses,
> metabolizing the organic matter into stable humus, the biosystem is
> transformed into a fertile garden bed. To promote the formation of stab=
le
> humus (with humus-clay colloids for available fertility and a good cati=
on
> exchange capacity), it is recommended to sprinkle clay soil lightly
> throughout the biosystem.
>
> Earthworms
> A moist aerated compost trench rich with decomposing organic matter is =
an
> nourishing environment for earthworms. The species of earthworm most
common
> in Israeli/Palestinian soil is not the red wiggler (esenia fotida) manu=
re
> worm best suited for the job, so initially we bought a bucket of red
wiggler
> earthworms (from Kibbutz Dovrat in the Galil) for the school composting
> system. In the trench biosystem at SPNI, earthworms came by themselves
and
> reproduce abundantly. If they do not come by themselves, by all means
> innoculate the system with earthworms found in moist organic matter-ric=
h
> soil, at the bottom of leaf piles or manure pits.
>
> The Importance of Adding Clay to Compost Biosystems:
> Adding clay to the compost process generates clay-humus colloidal
complexes
> that are the foundation of soil fertility, and a good cation exchange
> capacity. They perform key chemical reactions and nutrient exchange
> functions in soil, as well as providw food and habitat for soil life. =
By
> attracting mineral ions to their surfaces, essential nutrients are
> maintained in the soil instead of leaching out, and are released slow=
ly
> for plant uptake.
>
>
> ********
> PS: I am available off-list to discuss the situation we all are facing
now
> The following helps:
>
> ******
> Marcie A. Rosenzweig
> I confess to the initial dark and violent impulse a lot of us no
> doubt felt. This morning I'm reminded of the wisdom of the great
> allegorist Gene Roddenberry. Does anyone else remember the Star Trek
> episode with the entity that fed on hatred, becoming stronger as it
> instigated anger and caught more humans at their worst? While we are
> not yet ready for the laughter that was the choice of the crew,
> perhaps compassion and love for one another is an even more potent
> means of sending this monster to the other side of the universe.
>
> Yes, I still believe that putting a rabid dog down contains the
> infection and protects the community. I just don't need to take out
> all the pups in the area to accomplish that.
>
> 'An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind." Gandhi
>
> Some Mideast Webs of a spectrum of perspectives:
>
> www.ipcri.org
> www.israelnationalnews.org
> www.phg.org
>
>
> > From: Andrei Calciu
> > Reply-To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
> > Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 14:58:10 -0400
> > To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
> > Subject: water, water, everywhere.
> >
> > I was reading some weird stuff about usage of sewage water on crops a=
nd
I
> > had a thought. Is there a way to privately treat/process household "g=
rey
> > water" (water from dishwashers, clothes washers, sinks and tubs, but =
no
> > toilets) and use it for irrigating the crop or vegetable garden? Or
could
> > that be used in any way to replenish pond/recirculating system water =
in
an
> > aquaponics setup?
> >
> > -_______________
> > Andrei D. Calciu (VA-4270)
> > NEC America, Inc.
> > 14040 Park Center Dr.
> > Herndon, VA 20171-3227
> >
> > Voice: 703-834-4273
> > Fax: 703-787-6613
> >
> > This message and any attachment are confidential. If you are not the
> > intended recipient, please telephone or email the sender and delete t=
he
> > message and any attachment from your system. If you are not the inten=
ded
> > recipient you must not copy this message or attachment or disclose th=
e
> > contents to any other person.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
| Message 28
Subject: Re: Ecological Compost/Greywater Biosystems/Elisheva
From: Elisheva Ruth
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 17:06:18 +0000
Thanks for your suggestion, but we are interested in aerobic composting
only. Aerobic compost produces a fertile stable humus-clay crumb
for food production. Not interested in gas - only humus-rich soil
for a school food garden.
> From: "Brent Bingham"
> Reply-To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
> Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 13:12:44 -0700
>
> Subject: Re: Ecological Compost/Greywater Biosystems/Elisheva
>=20
> If you have enough material to compost you probably have enough to create=
a
> Bio Gas Digester. The newer designs have very good pathogen reduction. So=
lar
> heat is used in the final step to kill pathogens and increase gas
> production.
>=20
> Biogas is easy to make and the digester is rather easy to build. The end
> products are more valuable than compost alone. Greywater has the same
> pathogens as blackwater but not as many. Pathogens from ill persons are
> spread to; bedding, wash water, bedding, eating utensils etc., etc. . A
> properly designed digester can and does pay for itself.
> Brent
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Elisheva Ruth"
>
> Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 8:39 AM
> Subject: Ecological Compost/Greywater Biosystems
>=20
>=20
>> Andrei and Friends,
>>=20
>> I have been working in Palestine and Israel for many years in
>> community-based ww treatment and sustainable farming,
>> hence my involvement in this list with excellent resources.
>>=20
>> The potential for small-scale aquaponics and ww biosystems
>> is an important local solution esp for Palestinians and
>> many others world-wide in water-scarce regions.
>>=20
>> I am experimenting in Jerusalem and the West Bank with
>> trench composting systems irrigated with separated greywater,
>> but concerned about pathogen contamination.
>> I am investigating earthworms to control potential pathogens.
>> Any suggestions? references?
>>=20
>> Thanks Kindly,
>> Eli
>>=20
>> ********
>> DRAFT FOR COMMENTS AND SUGGESTIONS
>>=20
>> Ecological Compost/Greywater Biosystems
>>=20
>> OThe wondrous powers of microorganisms in healthy soil to
>> filter and cleanse wastewater pathogens and viruses provides
>> the model for wastewater treatment systems.=B9 Peter Warshall
>>=20
>> What is Greywater?
>> Greywater is the household water from showers, sinks, washing and genera=
l
>> use, everything except toilets. Homes with infants or ill individuals ca=
n
>> generate greywater close to blackwater. The difference between greywater
>> and blackwater is that since greywater does not carry =B9humanure=B9 from
>> toilets, greywater can be cleansed and used for irrigation much faster a=
nd
>> more safely.
>>=20
>> Consider how much water can be saved if each of us recycled our greywate=
r
> !
>> Over two-thirds of home water-use is greywater that can safely irrigate =
a
>> home, small commercial garden, orchard or landscape with simple on-site
>> appropriate treatment. For garden and landscape irrigation, greywater ca=
n
>> replace fresh water. Despite the potential of this resource, few people
>> have basic knowledge of how ecological biosystems can treat greywater at=
a
>> fraction of the cost of conventional systems.
>>=20
>> Note: A serious concern when using treated wastewater for food productio=
n
> is
>> the problem of pathogen contamination, especially around children. This
>> project minimized pathogen contamination concerns by using separated
>> greywater for the intermediate use of compost production only instead of
> for
>> direct irrigation. Children do not have direct contact with the greywate=
r.
>>=20
>> What is a Biofilter?
>> A compost/greywater biosystem is a biological filter, or biofilter, with
>> aerated surfaces on which microorganisms grow and metabolize the organic
>> matter. A biofilter is a living ecosystem. Biological filtration involve=
s
>> metabolism by aerobic or anerobic microbes attached to substrates. The
>> process we are concerned with in composting/greywater treatment are the
>> aerobic decomposition functions that require a natural oxygen flow betwe=
en
>> leaves, in soil pores, around rocks or exuding from the plant roots on
>> wetland species. A compost/greywater biosystem must be supplied with
> oxygen
>> in order to function properly. The microorganisms that =B9treat=B9 the
> organic
>> waste in greywater do this by metabolizing (decomposing) the organic
> matter
>> in the water. They are the same microbes that live in healthy soil and i=
n
>> the compost pile and require the same conditions.
>>=20
>> The basic principle to treat foodscraps and greywater is:
>>=20
>> Let nature do the work.
>>=20
>> The conditions that the microorganisms need to thrive are: air, water an=
d
>> food. When these basics are provided, there can be unlimited creativity =
in
>> designing compost/greywater biosystems to enhance any landscape.
>>=20
>> Compost/Greywater Biosystem Basics
>> Just as ecological agriculture harnesses natural soil regeneration
>> functions, such as composting and cover cropping, to build fertile soil
>> teaming with self-sustaining life processes, ecological water
> restoration
>> processes use aquatic ecosystem functions to cleanse and purify
> wastewater.
>> Composting/greywater biosystems harness and intensify the regenerative
>> functions and relationships in healthy soil and aquatic ecosystem
> processes.
>>=20
>> Healthy soil with good drainage provides a natural system model for
>> greywater treatment. The microorganisms and earthworms in biologically
>> active topsoil with good tilth are a complex community of soil microbes
> that
>> metabolize, cleanse and purify water. The diverse microorganisms living =
in
>> the manure of earthworms biologically control disease-causing pathogens=.>> Heavy clay or very sandy soil lack the organic matter that nourishes so=
il
>> life for the vital soil ecosystem that metabolized organic mater. Adding
>> living compost to clay or sandy soil increases aeration, drainage and
>> decomposition activity significantly so any soil can become a living
>> treatment system as nature intended.
>>=20
>> Urban soil typically lacks the tilth, drainage and soil foodweb essentia=
l
>> for healthy soil to digest the organic matter and control pathogens in
>> greywater. Therefore we designed a composting/greywater biosystems that
>> simultaneously restore soil and cleanse water .
>>=20
>> A composting/greywater biosystem begins as a passively aerated compost
>> trench irrigated by greywater. As the decomposition process progresses,
>> metabolizing the organic matter into stable humus, the biosystem is
>> transformed into a fertile garden bed. To promote the formation of stabl=
e
>> humus (with humus-clay colloids for available fertility and a good catio=
n
>> exchange capacity), it is recommended to sprinkle clay soil lightly
>> throughout the biosystem.
>>=20
>> Earthworms
>> A moist aerated compost trench rich with decomposing organic matter is a=
n
>> nourishing environment for earthworms. The species of earthworm most
> common
>> in Israeli/Palestinian soil is not the red wiggler (esenia fotida) manur=
e
>> worm best suited for the job, so initially we bought a bucket of red
> wiggler
>> earthworms (from Kibbutz Dovrat in the Galil) for the school composting
>> system. In the trench biosystem at SPNI, earthworms came by themselves
> and
>> reproduce abundantly. If they do not come by themselves, by all means
>> innoculate the system with earthworms found in moist organic matter-rich
>> soil, at the bottom of leaf piles or manure pits.
>>=20
>> The Importance of Adding Clay to Compost Biosystems:
>> Adding clay to the compost process generates clay-humus colloidal
> complexes
>> that are the foundation of soil fertility, and a good cation exchange
>> capacity. They perform key chemical reactions and nutrient exchange
>> functions in soil, as well as providw food and habitat for soil life. B=
y
>> attracting mineral ions to their surfaces, essential nutrients are
>> maintained in the soil instead of leaching out, and are released slowl=
y
>> for plant uptake.
>>=20
>>=20
>> ********
>> PS: I am available off-list to discuss the situation we all are facing
> now
>> The following helps:
>>=20
>> ******
>> Marcie A. Rosenzweig
>> I confess to the initial dark and violent impulse a lot of us no
>> doubt felt. This morning I'm reminded of the wisdom of the great
>> allegorist Gene Roddenberry. Does anyone else remember the Star Trek
>> episode with the entity that fed on hatred, becoming stronger as it
>> instigated anger and caught more humans at their worst? While we are
>> not yet ready for the laughter that was the choice of the crew,
>> perhaps compassion and love for one another is an even more potent
>> means of sending this monster to the other side of the universe.
>>=20
>> Yes, I still believe that putting a rabid dog down contains the
>> infection and protects the community. I just don't need to take out
>> all the pups in the area to accomplish that.
>>=20
>> 'An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind." Gandhi
>>=20
>> Some Mideast Webs of a spectrum of perspectives:
>>=20
>> www.ipcri.org
>> www.israelnationalnews.org
>> www.phg.org
>>=20
>>=20
>>> From: Andrei Calciu
>>> Reply-To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>>> Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 14:58:10 -0400
>>> To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>>> Subject: water, water, everywhere.
>>>=20
>>> I was reading some weird stuff about usage of sewage water on crops and
> I
>>> had a thought. Is there a way to privately treat/process household "gre=
y
>>> water" (water from dishwashers, clothes washers, sinks and tubs, but no
>>> toilets) and use it for irrigating the crop or vegetable garden? Or
> could
>>> that be used in any way to replenish pond/recirculating system water in
> an
>>> aquaponics setup?
>>>=20
>>> -_______________
>>> Andrei D. Calciu (VA-4270)
>>> NEC America, Inc.
>>> 14040 Park Center Dr.
>>> Herndon, VA 20171-3227
>>>=20
>>> Voice: 703-834-4273
>>> Fax: 703-787-6613
>>>=20
>>> This message and any attachment are confidential. If you are not the
>>> intended recipient, please telephone or email the sender and delete the
>>> message and any attachment from your system. If you are not the intende=
d
>>> recipient you must not copy this message or attachment or disclose the
>>> contents to any other person.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>=20
>=20
| Message 29
Subject: Teacher looking for Fish
From: "Doug Selby"
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 16:20:43 -0500
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
=_NextPart_000_2e6f_41b_55f3
Content-Type: text/html
I am a mid-Missouri 7-12 Science Teacher looking for free tilapia for my classroom.
My students and I made a 90 gallon recirculating system in which we raised ,(then ate!) 50
hybrid blue-gill. Now that we know our system works, we would like to try Tilapia.
Nobody around here is familiar with this fish, except me. Can someone help me make
contact with the guy who will ship them to a teacher for freight. Our system is up
and running, the bacteria are being fed fish food. I need fish before it will look
impressive again. I am attempting to attach a
picture.
Get
your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
=_NextPart_000_2e6f_41b_55f3
Content-Type: image/pjpeg; name="Mvc-002f.jpg"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Mvc-002f.jpg"
=_NextPart_000_2e6f_41b_55f3--
| Message 30
Subject: Re: Aquaponics Discussion stoppers
From: "Lloyd R. Prentice"
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 19:02:35 -0400
Hi Marc,
marc wrote:
> Lloyd,
>
> I am saddened at your need to use "therapizing" in an
> attempt to make it seem like I "NEED" support.
I apologize if this is how my note came across. I'm neither trained as a
therapist, nor was that my intent. And I have never given a minute of
thought as to whether or not you need support. You're the one who first
used the word. To the contrary, your posts over the several years that I
have been following them give me the impression of a very bright
independent thinker and doer fully capable of handling whatever
challenges you choose to accept.
I am, however, truly curious about the deep anger that I perceived in
your post characterizing environmentalists -- particularly when I
contast it with your usual well-informed rationality. Frankly, the image
that came to my mind as I read your post was of a measuring instrument
so pegged off-scale that I couldn't trust it's reading or calibration.
The image of you using a bulldozer to flatten another human being
shocked me, even if it was intended in jest. particularly in the context
of a response to another list member who'd expressed environmntal
concerns. It did, however, motivate me to ask in all curiosity, "why did
he say that?"
I have not, in my own mind, resolved the contradictions between personal
liberty and environmental responsibility. I have family in Northern
California with views probably much closer to yours than to mine on
these issues. My daughter worked as a reporter in Bellingham, Washington
for several years. This conflict as played out around Bellingham on
farms and in forests and fisheries was one of her major beats. I have
friends who've adopted vegan diets in effort "to walk more softly on the
earth." Personally, I eat meat, am frustrated with some of the zoning
laws that apply to my land, am apalled by Mick's experience with cancer
and ground water (we had a similar situation close to us here in
Massachusetts). Thus, I'm conflicted. I'm just a simple citizen tryng to
sort out for myself many contradictory perceptions, feelings, images and
facts across the whole spectrum of the issue. This is why I invited
discussion.
> I am shocked and saddened by your choice to ignore the gist
> of my communication that others do not feel welcome on this
> list and are so disenfranchised the mode of contact is off
> list.
I would certainly regret if anything that I've said would make you or
anyone feel unwelcome on this list, or disenfranchised in any way. But I
do stand by my vote for respectful, civil discussion rather than
emotional stereotyping or personal attack. I hope that the intended gist
of my message, which was at heart a call for serious discussion across
the property/environment divide, was not so lost in noise or poor
construction that anyone would think that I'm unwilling to consider
their views -- unless, of course, their only mode of exression is
invective or the rhetoric of hate speech. That I don't have time for.
> This communicative "black arts" approach is so unlike your
> usual reasonable communicative technique and seems to be so
> contrary to your usual truth seeking efforts.
Black arts? The only tools I have for communicating through this medium
are words. And I promise you that they are from the heart.
> I regret any contribution from me that could have
> contributed to your injury and this unfortunate tactic you
> choose to engage in. I assure you it was unintentional.
I don't feel injured. And I appreciate your attempt to clear up
misunderstanding. Nothing I've said was cast as a "tactic." And as I
said in my initial post, I welcome and learn much from most of your
contributions. I do feel that respectfully talking things through, even
when parties disagree, and particularly then, is the most powerful way
that I know to open one's horizons.
In short, I still submit that the underlying conflicts between
individual and community rights with respect to the environment deserve
deep and serious consideration on this list. But it can only happen if
we move beyond stereotyping, invective, name calling and finger
pointing. We all have much to gain.
Best wishes,
Lloyd R. Prentice
>
| Message 31
Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Sun 09/09/01
From: "STEVE SPRING"
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 20:14:15 -0500
Great Advice Arlus,
Why don't you loan me the several $K it would take to do this? (the net over
the pond). I don't go waving my gun around. I sighted my scope in today.
Just a matter of time. TOAST!!
I also think that this is a fruitless conversation and will generate nothing
but hard feelings by carrying it forward any more. I will make no more
responses to it.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Arlus Farnsworth"
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 1:29 PM
Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Sun 09/09/01
Steve, since you wish for my opinion, I will give it.
If a fish is too domesticated to avoid predators, obviously it should be
located in a protected location or given more protection. If your idea
of protection is waving a gun around and firing off rounds then you have
way too much time on your hands, simply not an efficient method, hence
the comparison to entertainment. While many people don't have a problem
with this type of diversion, for me it is only a matter of utility.
Killing stuff clouds my mind, I am one who appreciates thinking clearly.
Having a way to think of what I am doing helps. Don't get me wrong, I am
a farmer and a hunter by nature. I understand protecting yourself, it
seems like there are easier ways than to get pissed off at a bird.
Either do the deed or try something else. My buddy has goldfish in a
small pond. When racoon attacks became relentless he tried various
methods. One that worked was to lay down a stainless steel grate about
six inches off the bottom, weighed down with large stones. This offers
the additional benefit of some shade. For the bird, I should think some
netting over the top would suffice.
Quequeeg
STEVE SPRING wrote:
>
> Hi Arlus,
>
> If you were raising sheep or cattle and the coyote, wolves and cougars
were
> killing and eating your livestock, wouldn't you do something about it?
Sure
> you would. But, that is o.k. Right??
>
> 'splain the difference to me.
>
> I'm just like that rancher/farmer. I operate on a very small profit/loss
> scenario. I don't hunt, fish or any of these; but, if an animal/bird
> threatens my business
.Oh Well! It is not that this SOB doesn't have
> adequate feeding grounds available. He/she has just staked out my little
> pond as his/her private property. As I said previously, the SOB is TOAST
> eventually!
>
> Steve
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Arlus Farnsworth"
>
> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 2:57 PM
> Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Sun 09/09/01
>
> Someone from around here had to spend time in jail because he shot an
> owl that was disturbing his football game on tv. Fines and lifetime care
> for the disabled bird included. My brother killed the neighbors chickens
> with a bb gun, just for fun.
| Message 32
Subject: Re: Our pain, our country's pain, our world's pain
From: "Cary Dizon"
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 21:07:53 -0700
Please accept my condolences on your loss.
CPD
>
| Message 33
Subject: Re: Our pain, our country's pain, our world's pain
From: "Cary Dizon"
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 21:07:53 -0700
Please accept my condolences on your loss.
CPD
>
|
